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Japan Has Had It With Windows |
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Monday, September 01 2003 @ 03:00 AM EDT
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Not only did Japanese companies not respond favorably to McBride's Japan mission, the government of Japan now wants to develop open source software with China and Korea, so as avoid having to rely on Windows any longer:Japan hopes to develop new computer software in cooperation with China and South Korea to make Asian economies less dependent on Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating system, government officials said Sunday. The software would be built into computer servers and Internet-enabled appliances, such as next-generation cell phones, the officials said. Computer worms have been attacking Windows recently, prompting government offices and major companies to reconsider their heavy dependence on the operating system. Economy, Trade and Industry Minister Takeo Hiranuma will propose the plan to his Chinese and South Korean counterparts during talks Wednesday on the sidelines of an expanded meeting of trade ministers from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Phnom Penh. You can only make people just so mad before they rebel.
CNETAsia makes it sound like a done deal:Three North Asian countries are closer to signing a deal to co-develop an open-source operating system to replace Windows, according to the Japan news daily Nihon Keizai Shimbun.The agreement is likely to be announced this week by Japanese Trade Minister Takeo Hiranuma at an economic ministers' meeting in the Cambodian capital of Phnom Penh, said the report, quoting unnamed sources. The deal will tie China, Japan and Korea in efforts to develop the software. Representatives from both private and government agencies will meet later this year to discuss the terms of the collaboration, said the report. . . . Critical database and transaction servers at the core of the data center and the desktop PC are areas dominated by Unix and Microsoft Windows respectively. . . .A recent survey by research firm IDC revealed more than 50 percent of Asian servers run some flavor of Microsoft Windows. Although installed on only six percent of Asia-Pacific servers, Linux enjoyed the highest growth rate last year, more than double that of the next-fastest, Unix.
I couldn't help but think about what my friend's VC hubby told me a couple of weeks ago over lunch about MS and China, that whatever China decides to use, that operating system will win the world, and not even MS has the power to change that. Why the switch? According to this CNETAsia story from July, they are sick of license fees and want to see and control the code:For countries with a strong manufacturing base such as China, Korea and Japan, Linux gives them a chance to create an operating system free of licensing fees and with full control over the source code. Also, for China and India, there is national pride in working with an operating system that has intellectual property not owned by an American company.
Speaking of Microsoft and licenses, it is announcing today that although it is altering its license terms, it won't be reducing the bulk prices for Office 2003:While Microsoft has held the line on volume pricing, the new licensing provisions are intended to add value by giving volume customers new privileges and services. Options include free online training through Microsoft and accredited training partners; enhanced tech support; and access to Microsoft's bug-tracking information service, TechNet. Customers can also opt for a license that allows workers to install the same copy of Office on both an office and a home PC.
Imagine that. You can now install a copy of their software on two, count them, two computers. Like the Rev. Collins protesting, in Pride and Prejudice, about his patroness, the Lady Catherine, "that he had never in his life witnessed such behaviour in a person of rank -- such affability and condescension," we may be similarly overwhelmed by such generosity. Unless, that is, we are accustomed to GNU/Linux systems, which we can install on everybody's computers on Planet Earth and on Mars too as it passes by, without violating any licenses, in which case we are more likely to say to Microsoft, That's it? That's your best offer? Evidently in Japan, they have had it with greedo, one-sided proprietary licenses, not to mention the security issues and the viruses, and they mean to do something about it. This clearly will impact not only Microsoft but UNIX as well, which is "owned" by you know who. This just couldn't be happening to a nicer bunch of fellows.
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:09 AM EDT |
Well. It certainly is nice to see Japan officially going for the Linux upgrade
to patch that MSBlaster hole :) Joss of the Red Eyes[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:31 AM EDT |
Slight off topic, but Bob Cringley has a great article on how MS is going to be
in BIG trouble about destroying email relating to an upcoming court case. I bet
those MS-SCO emails are being traced as we speak.
http://www.pbs.org
/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030828.html
Ken Ken[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:55 AM EDT |
If the three countries agree on the plan, the governments will start
full-fledged preparations with the participation of experts from telecom
carriers and machinery equipment makers.
"If the three countries agree on the plan" = Ballmer or Gates getting on a plane
with a truckload of incentives and concessions. The US starts applying pressure
and heavy political lobbying in these countries. monkymind[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 02:45 AM EDT |
It's beginning to look that Microsoft's day is well-and-truely over! All the
years of monopoly, of greed and control are beginning to slip through their
fingers. Now that its evident that Microsoft cannot be trusted, people are
looking for alternatives. Stephen Henry[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 03:11 AM EDT |
I seriously doubt that Microsoft will make enough concessions to make China
change it's mind. Japan maybe, but China's government seems to be a little to
irritated with Microsoft right now to go back, having expressed the desire to
not only see, but be able to alter the source code of all the OS software it'll
be using. As I recall it was also mentioned somewhere that they wanted to stick
entirely with Open Source OS companies that are local to China.
With that in mind, note that as of 6 months ago Beijing Municipal Government has
already signed a contract with Red Flag Linux (not to be confused with Red Hat
Linux).
http://w
ww.redflag-linux.com/jujiao/enews_view.php?id=1000000012
I don't know about Korea, but I would say Japan seems more likely to be
persuaded by concessions than China. Joss of the Red Eyes[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 03:11 AM EDT |
I seriously doubt that Microsoft will make enough concessions to make China
change it's mind. Japan maybe, but China's government seems to be a little to
irritated with Microsoft right now to go back, having expressed the desire to
not only see, but be able to alter the source code of all the OS software it'll
be using. As I recall it was also mentioned somewhere that they wanted to stick
entirely with Open Source OS companies that are local to China.
With that in mind, note that as of 6 months ago Beijing Municipal Government has
already signed a contract with Red Flag Linux (not to be confused with Red Hat
Linux).
http://w
ww.redflag-linux.com/jujiao/enews_view.php?id=1000000012
I don't know about Korea, but I would say Japan seems more likely to be
persuaded by concessions than China. Joss of the Red Eyes[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 04:20 AM EDT |
monkeymind wrote:
""If the three countries agree on the plan" = Ballmer or Gates getting on a
plane with a truckload of incentives and concessions. The US starts applying
pressure and heavy political lobbying in these countries. "
Which probably won't do a heck of alot of good. Anyone following the nonsense
about nuclear weapons in N. Korea? This is an example of how the Chinese and
Japanese will deal with any US pressure not to ditch MS. N. Korea re-starts in
nuclear program, and China does alot of hand-wringing and pleads that they will
help. Yeah- China could make N. Korea shut their nuke program down by just
giving them a mean look. So why don't they? Well, it's all about independence,
and wanting the US to get out of their part of the world. And N. Korea is a
situation that can be made to work to their advantage- so why the heck shut the
N. Koreans down? The S. Koreans and the Chinese and Japanese don't seem too
worried about N. Korea- the only country worried is the US.
If the US starts lobbying against any effort by these countries to build their
own OS, well, we will hear lots about how they want to work with MS and the US,
and they will probably throw Gates-Ballmer a few bones, but all the while they
will be quietly developing their own OS. The goal again is no US interference-
the ability to chart their own course without being screwed by some US software
company.
IMHO, I agree with them. I don't want MS on MY computers, and I LIVE in the US
<G>. Any efforts like Ballmer's trip to Munich will fail- there is no way
any company is going to artificially keep the cost of information high in our
eceonomy. OSs are an information input for business, and for years the trend
has been for the cost of information to fall. We'll see more shenanigans from
MS because they simply can't compete with Linux- Linux holds all the cards.
It's all about free competition, and gates-Ballmer shouldn't get so depressed
<G>. Why does all of this remind me of the final days of Ashton-Tate.
Anyone remember them? wild bill[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 04:33 AM EDT |
Joss wrote:
"With that in mind, note that as of 6 months ago Beijing Municipal Government
has already signed a contract with Red Flag Linux (not to be confused with Red
Hat Linux)."
Yeah, I am interested in RF Linux. Someone is supposed to be bringing me back a
boxed copy next time they visit China. I suppose I could d/l, but the box
decorations look interesting <G>. The goal in China now seems to be to get
MS out of govt. offices, and the military in particular. Makes sense for them-
Germany has been doing the same thing for years.
Stallman recently visited China (well, a year or so ago), and there has been
alot of interest there regarding open source. Embedded Linux makes alot of
sense for electronics manufacturers- there isn't alot of margin in electronics
devices, so why give Gates-Ballmer your profits. I think this is one of the big
issues that will drive the Japanese to widespread adoption of Linux.
This trend towards open source OS's was, IMHO, inevitable. Just look at the
FSF's reasons for existence, and you will see why. MS could have delayed the
inevitable by a few years by releasing software that wasn't so crappy, but they
chose the big profits over releasing a good product.
I certainly shed no tears for those bozos or the bozos in Utah. I have had to
deal with too many problems over the years caused by their software, and am
absolutely infuriated by their response to competing products. That response
is- FUD them out of business, or use other nasty tactics to make them go away.
MS successfully pursued this strategy with DR-DOS, the windoze competitor
PC-GEOS, and many others.
I thought the free market was about competition that would result in better
products for all. So how come it's the people in open source, whom Darl is
calling communists, seem to be the only ones following this path. One would
think that gates-Ballmer, being self-professed capitalists, would welcome
innovation and improved products. The only time Gates-Ballmer and Co. seem to
be "Thinking at the speed of light" or whatever is when they consider ways to
extract more fees from software users. As for Darl, what can you expect- he's a
Moron. wild bill[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 04:39 AM EDT |
Ashton Tate? Weren't they the guys, who made Lotus? And actually, wasn't Lotus
bought by IBM ultimately? :) Robvarga[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 04:43 AM EDT |
"Options include free online training through Microsoft and accredited training
partners; enhanced tech support; and access to Microsoft's bug-tracking
information service, TechNet. "
WOW! I've seen the level of expertise these trainers have (I've written some of
the training material for one). "Jane sees the mouse. Click the mouse, Jane.
Click, Jane, click!" is what you get. The tech support knows less than I do,
and if M$ had any guts at all, they would open their bug reports to the
world. Tsu Dho Nimh[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 04:54 AM EDT |
"Ashton Tate? Weren't they the guys, who made Lotus?"
Ashton-Tate were the developers of the original D-Base, I believe. Tom
Cranbrook[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 05:06 AM EDT |
Tsu Dho Nimh - The problem isn't just guts, it's that unlike Open Source
Software Microsoft has nothing to gain by opening up their bug reports. In the
Open Source world opening up your bug reports to the public is how you get free
patches written by your users who have programming skills. In the closed source
world opening up your bug reports simply admits their existence, as well as
showing how <insert obscenity here> long it takes for anything to be done
about them, and makes it harder for the market-wonks to sell your product at
it's obscenely inflated price. Oh, and I've seen the level of expertise that
"accredited training partners" have too. <mumble mumble> Joss of the Red Eyes[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 05:20 AM EDT |
I agree. China's adoption of linux is at a point where it is unlikely to be
derailed by any external influences. The Taiwanese goverment are also < a
href="http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/systems/0,39001153,39145673,00.htm">committe
d to linux.
Regardless of the reality - I still doubt anything will stop Gates/Ballmer going
through the same motions that were once very sucessful. Even if all it
acomplishes is a few token contracts - they will wring whatever $$$ they can and
put a positive spin on it.
I'm actually quite curious about the long term inpact of having an OS forced on
a population by an opressive government. I suspect the backlash and dissent will
probably manifest in the form of worms and viruses for linux. monkymind[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 05:28 AM EDT |
Ashton-Tate, as tranbrook notes, was the developer of DBase. They were
ultimately acquired not by IBM, but by Borland/Imprrise. There's a Cringley
article here that
offers some analogies between the Ashton-Tate history -- particularly as it
relates to the battle with Fox Software -- and the SCO-IBM mess. bob[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 05:58 AM EDT |
Hm,
I knew it was familiar from somewhere.
And it is a rather edifying story. :) Robvarga[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 06:12 AM EDT |
Per a Linus quote here:
http://www.ore
illy.com/catalog/opensources/book/linus.html ,
Book title: Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution, chapter title:
The Linux Edge, (by) Linus Torvalds, the reading is as follows: "We ended up
deciding (or maybe I ended up decreeing) that system calls would not be
considered to be linking against the kernel. That is, any program running on top
of Linux would not be considered covered by the GPL. This decision was made very
early on and I even added a special read-me file (see Appendix B-note: found in
the above book) to make sure everyone knew about it. Because of this commercial
vendors can write programs for Linux without having to worry about the GPL".
I am betting that Japan sees China's LINUX direction as a huge market to sell
application software to (as the Linus Torvalds quote above allows user
applications to be created that are not GNU GPL). End User applications are like
literature... as there is always going to be a better "look and feel" book that
comes along that addresses user needs in a way that is new and improved. This
Asian software future will happen if the three agree, that is, unless software
patents prevent the books from being written in the first place! And if, the
three jointly reject current US software patent LAW, and India, Russia, and the
all the 3rd world joins this rejection of the feudalistic nature of some parts
of US IP law, then the US software companies, and US industry in general, and
Europe (if Europe follows the US software patent lead) will be at a huge
software and industrial related disadvantage. The world that exists "outside of
US or Europe's jusridiction" will just pass by. And ya can't blow em to bits to
make them comply with a system of software patent laws that are flawed. So -
check-mate! annon[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 06:31 AM EDT |
"Customers can also opt for a license that allows workers to install the same
copy of Office on both an office and a home PC."
Would that be a violation of US copyright law, according to Heise?
PJ: You need to look at Montevista says about Darl's trip to Japan quatermass - SCO delenda est[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 06:38 AM EDT |
SCO case "suspicious" according to ZDNet, re: GPL and lines of code
ht
tp://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/os/story/0,2000048630,20278013,00.htm quatermass - SCO delenda est[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 07:50 AM EDT |
On a lighter note: Newforge did a humour piece on Linus Torvalds running for
Governor in California. Now Silcon.com and ZDnet UK picked it up as serious news
:-)
http://silicon.com/news/500022
/1/5808.html
http://news.z
dnet.co.uk/software/0,39020381,39116052,00.htm
Whoops - ZDnet UK have removed the article but in talkback section someone
pointed out it was a joke. monkymind[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 07:54 AM EDT |
On a lighter note: Newforge did a humour piece on Linus Torvalds running for
Governor in California. Now Silcon.com and ZDnet UK picked it up as serious news
:-)
http://silicon.com/news/500022
/1/5808.html
http://news.z
dnet.co.uk/software/0,39020381,39116052,00.htm
Whoops - ZDnet UK have removed the article but in talkback section someone
pointed out it was a joke. monkymind[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 07:59 AM EDT |
robvarga wrote:
"Ashton Tate? Weren't they the guys, who made Lotus? And actually, wasn't Lotus
bought by IBM ultimately? :) "
Uhhh..yeah <G>. Cringely has a column about the Ashton-Tate/Fox lawsuit that
is interesting reading- he points out that SCO was Fox's co-defendant in this
lawsuit. Anyways, what I think is important here is that this was another
example where the industry was shaken badly by one software developer (Fox
worked much better than dBase, and there were fears that dBase would prevail)-
but in the end, information costs fell and Ashton-Tate went away. That's what
will happen here with SCO.
Cringely also made one VERY good point in his article- David Boies is NOT an IP
lawyer. I think that fact alone has great bearing on this case.... wild bill[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 08:09 AM EDT |
quatermass wrote:
"SCO case "suspicious" according to ZDNet, re: GPL and lines of code."
ZDNet and the other "mainstream IT Press" have really shown themselves to be
inept in their coverage of this SCO nonsense. I e-mailed Dvorak and several
other "journalists" and told them how silly their stories were back in June.
Recently, some of them seem to have "gotten it" and have begun to mention all of
the things the open source community has been saying for months. Is this an
example of the new and improved "Jayson Blair Model of Reporting" being used?
<G>. Their level of credibility has fallen- just like the NY Times, which
publishes "All the News fit to make up." Anyone find it humorous that the Times
recently ran an interview with Billy Gates, where the man claimed Windows was
"secure." "We're doing our best," Billy sez.... wild bill[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 08:19 AM EDT |
quatermass: "You need to look at Montevista says about Darl's trip to Japan"
His was a wasted trip. Sony testified against Microsoft's new standard DOJ
approved OEM license during the Tunney Act proceedings. It gave MS a grant-back
of Sony's IP. They publicly embraced Linux as their alternative then. It was
only a matter of time until vendors such as Fujitsu Ltd., NEC Corp. and Hitachi
Ltd., from which the Japanese government buys systems, started unveiling
Linux-based products. What McBride has to say about Unix System VR4 can easily
be verified and avoided by members of the CELF like Fujitsu, NEC, Toshiba,
Oki,and the Institute for Information Industry (Taiwan's Government). They all
co-owned and co-developed Unix System VR4. While McBride might have a clear
title to Unix System VR4 here in the US, it's doubtful he can say the same in
Japan and elsewhere.
Note how many Japanese firms helped develop System V and partnered in USL.
Hitachi struck alliances with OSF and partnered with IBM, HP, and Digital
instead (go figure). Motorola's Metrowerkks bought Caldera's Lineo.
They are all listed here:
http://www.att.com/news/0491
/910403.ula.html
or here:
http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=Open+Softwar
e+Foundation&action=Search
I am always fascinated by the frequency that these same companies appear in
lists like CELF, Monta Vista's partners list, as memebers of The Open Group, and
etc.
The more things change the more they stay the same. Harlan[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 08:25 AM EDT |
I don't understand: Are Japan, PRC and ROK co-developing an OS from scratch or
are they working with Linux? I have my doubts on the effectiveness of government
mandated innovation, and I'll believe in that brand new OS from Japan-PRC-ROK
when I see it. If they are instead going with Linux, then they might be able to
mandate it for their government offices but they can't really compel the private
sector to follow suit - at any rate, their private sectors seem to be adopting
Linux at a pretty good clip anyway. I believe that almost every country is
better off working and innovating with Linux, if only because Linux has a cadre
of world class programmers to bounce ideas off whereas if they wre creating an
NOS from scratch, they would have to create their own corps of world class
programmers that are familiar with their NOS. On top of that, developing an OS
from scratch now involves dealing with a built-in lag of seven years at least
behind Linux - In Internet time, that's probably about three generations of
software or an eternity. Well, to put it unsentimentally: I am not in the
business of preventing adults of sound mind and sound body from discharging
their firearms on their feet. blacklight[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 09:44 AM EDT |
blacklight wrote: but they can't really compel the private sector to follow
suit
One of the big selling points for MS software is that you get to read all the
MS-proprietary-but-touted-as-standard formats (such as MS Word). I'm sure I'm
not the only one that gets sent simple documents, announcements and data in Word
or Excel format.
If the government mandate an open-source operating system, then there's a much
higher chance that the individuals and corporations can 'get by' with just
running Linux, since all the protcols and formats are open. Ie, it breaks MS's
'lock-in'. If you break the lock-in, then you break the primary reason for using
MS's products. Chris Cogdon[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 10:07 AM EDT |
I really hope that Japan goes through with this deal. I think the Japanese
culture as a whole is quite fascinating (off topic, I know), and this would give
me yet another reason to respect Japan.
On another off-topic note, I plan to get Slackware 9.0 soon... Sco, watch
out! Garrett[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 10:28 AM EDT |
Not to strike a discordant note, but is GNU/Linux ready to compete with Windows
on the desktop? I run Windows on two desktop systems (for customer
compatibility), Mac OS X on three systems (my OS of choice for the desktop) and
I run GNU/Linux on my servers.
This weekend I built a new desktop system for a friend and installed Red Hat
Linux 9. The desktop on this system is far, far superior to any other desktop I
have used on a GNU/Linux based system - RedHat's blue curve works well, all the
font issues seem to have been resolved, nearly all the tools I wanted are
available.
But it's not well integrated and there is a lack of consistency. Different
applications use arbitrary menu choices which means that users have to learn
each application separately. For example, why are Preferences under the "edit" menu with one
program, the "help" menu for another, and the "file" menu for a third. Although
to be fair there does seem to be some standardization on "Quit" as control-Q and
copy/paste keys. These may seem like small items to professional users but they
are confusing to entry level users. The desktop doesn't appear to work together
in a seamless manner as with the Mac and Windows.
Then look at tasks like configuring a sound card. Linux recognized the system's
on-board AC97 compatible chip, and appeared to install everything correctly.
However, the system remained stubbornly mute until the correct control panel
options were found and audio was enabled. Who decided that the correct initial
setting for audio should be "disabled"? Can you imagine MS or Apple deciding
that audio should be off until the user discovers the correct setting in a
control panel? Consider the frustration for a neophyte user trying to determine
if the problem is the audio hardware, the audio software, the system software,
or his speakers. Incidentally, even with audio working CDs would not play in
the system, and more work was needed to discover why and to fix the issue.
On both Mac OS X and XP, if you install the OS and then insert movie DVD, the
movie will start playing. That doesn't happen with GNU/Linux based systems. I
installed VLC to play DVDs - which actually means installing the RPM for VLC,
and also making certain that the following libraries and CODECs are also
installed: wxGTK, alsa-lib, libdvdcss, libdvdplay, libdvdread, libdvdpsi,
mpeg2dec, ffmpeg, libpostproc, a52dec, faad2, flac, lame, libmad, xvidcore,
matroska, libebml, xosd, imlib2, libdv, lirc, libid3tag, aalib, and openslp.
These are available as separate RPMs. After all that, movie subtitles do not
display correctly, although they work with the same DVD on a Mac or XP
system.
And there you have one of the weaknesses of Open Source software, which is also
one of the strengths. By splitting the task (playing a DVD) into a number of
smaller tasks, many people can work on it; but in so doing the user has to
coordinate getting all the pieces in the right place to make them all work
together, which means he has a burden to know more about the system.
Incidentally, the VLC application is also available for Mac OS X, but there it
is a single file - download it, double click on it, select the DVD as the
source, it plays it; no configuration issues, no additional packages to
locate.
Please don't misunderstand, I want Linux to succeed. I also see the huge amount
of work that has been done on the server side, and the smaller amount done on
the application and GUI side. One of the downsides of Open Source software is
that developers are generally attracted to areas that interest them, rather than
the areas that need work. If you look on Freshmeat and similar sites it's easy
to see that many more people are attracted to building developer oriented
applications than to business applications. The GNOME/KDE controversy doesn't
help - we should be trying to improve on Windows, not trying to get one-up on a
competing GUI system on the same platform.
If GNU/Linux is to replace Windows on the user desktop, it will need to be as
polished, as seamless, and as business oriented as the competition. RedHat
clearly understands this, which is why they have spent time and energy on
developing Blue Curve. I'm afraid more needs to be done before GUI/Linux can
compete on an equal footing with Windows or the Mac. There are many world class
developers working on the Linux kernel, but the desktop could benefit greatly
from more attention, as well as work in areas that many consider less
interesting such as useability studies and GUI standards, technically boring
issues but vital for end-user satisfaction. Calibax[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 11:04 AM EDT |
"blacklight wrote: but they can't really compel the private sector to follow
suit"
MS learned the secret to that years ago: get exclusive contracts with businesses
and schools for Windows systems. The average John Q. Public is going to use the
same OS at home as he does at work/school. Period. It doesn't stress his poor
little brain quite as much that way. Heavens forbid he should have to learn TWO
OSes!
All China has to do is tell all businesses and govt. offices and schools to use
Linux. The private sector will immediately follow suit. J.F.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 11:16 AM EDT |
Calibax: The reason we didn't all have firewire ports on every PC was because it
would have raised unit costs in Taiwan about a dollar a piece.
Businesses and Joe Six Pack bought MS Windows 3.0 and MS-DOS on Packard Bells by
the millions. They seldom bought Apples highly polished products.
In the PC market whatever is cheaper will win period. People learned to use
MS-DOS even though superior products were available. If the Consumer Electronics
Linux Forum makes DVD players, there will be DVD on Linux. If Microsoft looses
either of it's patent suits over Windows Media Player - who knows? By the time
the EU finishes there may be some MS media players for Linux. Harlan[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 12:23 PM EDT |
Calibax wrote:
"Not to strike a discordant note, but is GNU/Linux ready to compete with Windows
on the desktop? I run Windows on two desktop systems (for customer
compatibility), Mac OS X on three systems (my OS of choice for the desktop) and
I run GNU/Linux on my servers."
All depends on which distro you run. My preference has always been Suse, and
the new Suse 8.2 is really great- I think it beats out RH on the desktop. Think
of open source as a set of building blocks- it takes an integrator to put these
open source blocks together and build a distro. I don't care much for
Bluecurve, and also prefer Suse because they are a UnitedLinux member (and,
IMHO, UnitedLinux is the future of Linux). I also like Suse's admin tools
better...Don't get me wrong, RH is a fine distro and RH has done much for the
Linux community- I just think Suse is better. BTW, I did read a comparison of
RH 9 and Suse 8.2, would post the link but did not save it- a Google search
should find it. The comparison rated Suse as better.
I run several OSs, including OSX which is pretty good (Linux really cooks on the
Mac G4s too, but is very difficult to install, or was a few years back when I
did it), and one of my favorites is Plan 9. Too bad Lucent didn't GPL that
code. If they had, alot more interest would have developed over this OS.
The Linux desktop needs some improvement, but all in all, I think the
programming talent has been well spent (kernel improvements, the rewrite of X,
JFS by IBM, etc.). And if you like windows programs, or have a couple you just
can't live without, try Crossover. If you have never used it before, you will
be extremely impressed.
Linux will continue to get better as it is embraced by more and more big
players. In a few years, M$ might be the one with the outdated GUI, simply
because more people (including programmers employed by HP and IBM and who knows
who else) are working on the Linux GUI. Look at what Corel's involvement did
for Linux. That made M$ very very afraid <G>. wild bill[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 12:40 PM EDT |
Calibax, if I might suggest, next time let your friend play with Knoppix before
you install anything.
I wish everyone would give everyone they know a Knoppix CD. I wish they'd
distribute them in computer magazines and in PR flyers, anything. It does
everything you want, in my experience, as far as recognizing sound and things
like that, by the way, so it certainly can be done. pj[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 12:56 PM EDT |
I agree with wild bill concerning Linux on the desktop. Redhat is a good distro,
but does not seem to have put in the effort on the desktop that other distro's
have. Xandros, Lycorix, Lindows, and Mandrake, as well as Suse seem to be ahead
of Redhat on the desktop. I have installed Mandrake and Lindows (briefly, I am a
Debian fanatic) just to see how they stacked up. I really did not have to do
anything else to get the nuts and bolts of the system working. They were, in my
opinion, no harder to install than a Windows environment, up to Windows ME at
least. I have had no experience with Windows XP and probably will never have
such an experience as long as product activation is an issue.
When Linux come preinstalled on many different types of computers and the end
users do not have to do anything other than hook the system up and turn it on,
many of the installation problems will go away. Many, many people still have
problems installing Windows, or adding new hardware to an existing installation.
I have had to answer many calls for help from friends and family who have tried
to add something to their computer or have tried upgrading from one windows
version to another.
As far as having everything accessed the same way, that can lead to a boring
and bland computer experience. It also can lead to stagnation, a lack of
innovation. If someone finds a better way of doing something which requires a
different manner of presentation or access, it does not matter, as long as the
new way IS better, and makes it easier and better for the end user. As lon as
this user can find out how to do it quickly and easily.
That is my two pence worth anyhow.
Glenn Glenn Thigpen[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 12:58 PM EDT |
bill, SCO is a UnitedLinux member too. I wouldn't go so far as to say
UnitedLinux is the future of Linux, more like UnitedLinux has no future. Not to
disparage SuSE--but why wasn't SCO kicked out of UnitedLinux as soon as they
started this whole thing? Jeremy Stanley[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:13 PM EDT |
i wouldn't touch UnitedLinux with YOUR ten foot pole. SuSE is way behind the
curve in not kicking SCO out and it's hurting their credibility in my eyes. Add
to that the fact that SCO's new European license monger came to them from SuSE
and it begins to make one wonder what kind of deal SCO might have made with
SuSE. Jeff Randall[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:19 PM EDT |
PJ, as for your wish for Knoppix with magazines, in Germany that has been true
for a couple of months now. Knoppix came with a several computer magazines and
among them c't (the most respected) has been running an article series on it,
from first time use to installation on the HD, FAQs, upgrades, every month
something new. c't has been featuring linux quite a bit but they've always been
multi-platform. You could also get the CD from a government agency for free.
btw. that SCO performance graph is really too good, I just love the tiny little
green spike Monday afternoon... ;)
Drew Drew[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:24 PM EDT |
I've come to the conclusion that Red Hat's recent decision to pull out of the
retail space will be a great thing for new users' perception of Linux - since
then rather than buying something that's basically meant as an afterthought
they'll end up with something like Suse, or Mandrake, or even Lindows, which has
been made with people who have never touched anything that looks like Unix in
mind.
Specifically, the RPM thing. All of the above retail distributions have tools
that automatically fetch all the dependencies needed for a package you want to
try to install. I had no idea VLC even had the kind of issues Calibax
mentioned, though I know mplayer needs a lot of dependencies and I was still
able to download and install the whole thing with a single checkbox and a button
click under Mandrake.
App consistency is a lot better now that big corporate users have started
demanding it. Yeah, you have apps like Mozilla and OpenOffice with their own
toolkits, but they at least try to imitate the dominant Gtk and Qt. App
consistency is only present in the Microsoft world if you only use Microsoft
products, and even then, if you'll remember, it wasn't that long ago that to get
the options dialog in IE, you had to look under the "View" menu instead of the
"Tools" menu. The situation seems better in Macland but as another poster
mentioned, people aren't willing to pay a huge premium for a minor increase in
productivity.
I think we're actually approaching critical mass on the Linux desktop. In
another year or so we're going to have more people using it than MacOS X, and
that's when you'll see the segment of developers currently releasing Windows/OSX
packages either adding Linux or replacing OSX support with it.
I think after that is when you'll really start seeing widespread corporate
adoption; consumer adoption is entirely dependent on retail computer
manufacturers preinstalling it, and you just won't see any of the big guys
pushing it in the near future due to their contracts with Microsoft (but what a
bargaining point in their favor it'll be, in a year or two.)
I noticed CompUSA is bundling WordPerfect Office 11 with their PC's and
notebooks now; what a shame Corel is in the process of being bought out by a VC
firm with ties to Microsoft, but it does demonstrate that computer retailers are
mindful of consumers' desire for something that costs less and works just as
well. raindog[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:27 PM EDT |
Jeremy: I suspect that UnitedLinux / the UnitedLinux members have contractual
obligations towards each other. I don't think that "I don't like you" will be a
good enough reason to cancel such contracts. I think SuSE referred to these
contract when they said that they had cross-licensing agreements with SCO [1]
[1] htt
p://www.cbronline.com/currentnews/63988bfe5f212f7680256d6c0018c9ea inc_x[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:37 PM EDT |
The regional court of Munich I has punished the german SCO Group GmbH by an
administrative fine of 10.000 Euro.
As the "tarent GmbH" and the "LinuxTag e.v" say, SCO has infringed upon the
temporary injunction that prohibited to claim that Linux would contain
illegally provided intellectual property of SCO. In May 2003 the "tarent GmbH"
among other enterprises had obtained this injunction.
The regional court accuses the SCO Group GmbH of "negligent behaviour" by having
claim on their website that the end user who uses the software linux could be
made responsible for protection violations of intellectual property of SCO still
after the publishing of the temporary injunction.
The SCO Group GmbH has two possibilities: It can pay the 10.000Euro punishment
or the manager is taken to prison for 10 days."
http://www.pro-linux.de/news/
2003/5909.html Mick[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:49 PM EDT |
Babelfish translation
10.000, - euro order money against the SCO Group GmbH
Sent of demon at the Mo, 1. September 2003 around 15:22
The regional court Munich I has an order money at a value of 10.000 on 28 August
2003, - euro against the SCO Group GmbH imposes.
The SCO has GmbH and the LinuxTag according to data tarent of the e. V. against
the provisional order offended in it "the software Linux was forbidden
maintaining illegitimately acquired mental property of SCO contains." This order
had obtained the Tarent GmbH and further enterprises with emphasis on free
software in May/June 2003.
The court accuses the SCO Group GmbH "negligent behavior" with the enterprise of
its firm homepage, on which also still after it obtains the provisional order
the statement to be read was that "final users, who use the software Linux for
protection injuries mental of the property can be made liable by SCO."
"the regional court Munich I made clear in the reason the order money resolution
that the statements of SCO as" substantial business-damaging expressions "are to
be regarded, which concern" an extremely sensitive range ". It cannot concern to
make with unproven statements at expense third a business with the fear. We will
examine therefore, to which extent SCO made itself liable to pay damages in
relation to the enterprises in the Linux surrounding field and SCO represents
stressed attorney Dr. Till hunter of the kanzlei Jaschinski of beers Brexl that
to the account to pull accordingly ", the company Tarent in this affair. "we
rate the SCO campaigns as part of a strategy, in which GNU/Linux users and
potential Umsteiger substantial are to be disconcerted. German courts now
already repeats a latch plate put forward shows like this strategy to arrange
is: to destroy as an attempt with not durable statements the market for
GNU/Linux of products and enterprises. This calculation goes obviously not on ",
adds Elmar Geese, managing director of the Tarent GmbH.
The SCO Group must pay the 10,000, - euro now to the treasury, otherwise
managing director Hans Bavarian an order detention of 10 days threatens.
http://www.pro-linux.de/news/
2003/5909.html Mick[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:55 PM EDT |
Jess Randall wrote-
"SCO is a UnitedLinux member too. I wouldn't go so far as to say UnitedLinux is
the future of Linux, more like UnitedLinux has no future. Not to disparage
SuSE--but why wasn't SCO kicked out of UnitedLinux as soon as they started this
whole thing? "
the way this whole silly thing has gone, I am not sure of SCOs status in
UnitedLinux. CALDERA was a member of UnitedLinux (as well as Conectiva, Suse
and TurboLinux), but I don't know if the "new SCO" is or not. Certainly SCOs
actions have been against the spirit of UnitedLinux.
Some standards are needed in the Linux world- a world of Linux distros united by
accepted standards will make things much easier for everyone. Oh, BTW, Caldera
had the crappiest release of the UnitedLinux members <G>.
And UnitedLinux has made an impact; you have to remember, Suse is probably the
biggest distro in Europe (certainly in Germany), and to date I believe
TurboLinux is the biggest player in the Far East. there is indeed a future for
agreement in standards for Linux- whether it is called UnitedLinux or something
else.... wild bill[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 01:59 PM EDT |
Sco is still a member of UnitedLinux and still on their website.
http://www.sco.com/unitedlinux/ Mick[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 02:02 PM EDT |
Jeff - The issue of the Suse person leaving to join SCO has been discussed
earlier, it sounds as though he used to be Suse's representative to UnitedLinux
and they made him redundant. Suse have stated that they believe SCOs claims have
no merit and reportedly gave some backing to LinuxTag in getting the injunction
in their native country.
I think SCOs actions may well have killed United Linux however, the news page
was updated on 25 June to announce their UnitedLinux Ready program but the rest
of the site doesn't seem to have been updated at all, SCO are still listed as a
Linux vendor Adam Baker[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 02:09 PM EDT |
Someone on Yahoo has done a more readable translation
here Adam Baker[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 02:10 PM EDT |
The link didn't work, I'll try again
click here Adam Baker[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 04:47 PM EDT |
_Two_ years ago I was lunching with our organization's President, Program
Director, and a security specialist we were preparing to bring on board. I
brought up the topic of GNU/Linux and FOSS (Free & Open Source Software). I was
trying to convey to our President how fundamentally this was going to change IT
and even society, one of my strongest examples was China. I told him literally
"China is going to Linux Roger, _China_, Roger". Two years ago the China/Linux
handwritting was even then on the wall (I had been following the developments
for over two? years previous already).
The company that produces RedFlag has as one of it's principals the son of the
Premier, I believe it is. There won't be any any high profile Ballmer/Gates
defection junkets on this story, because they have already tried.
They tried with China years ago and failed to get anymore than scraps and face
saving contracts. Behind the scenes the switch rolled on. What you are reading
about today is actually the expansion/consolidation of this position throughout
the entire Pacific Rim. (If I were as industrious as pj ;) I would link all this
but if anyone needs verification on a specific point I'll put the remote
down...)
MS recently was rebuffed in Japan over a contract to handle the new government
payroll system (a key contract for a core system) that shows there the depth of
the existing policy change. Despite the junket.
At a recent Pacifit Rim summit they were drafting a working resolution on
promotion of FOSS and the US delegation was fighting tooth and nail to water it
down. They did, but only on paper, the countries themselves will act on their
original full-force intent.
Ditto same on a recent global summit on IT matters.
MS has resorted to sending in US trade Reps to cry and moan about
anti-competiteve trade practices but what traction can they get? Will they file
a formal protest in the WTO? Saying What? Most of these MS contract losses are
to LocalLinuxDistributor+IBM/HP or US-LinuxDistributor+IBM/HP. It is simply a
different choice being made and MS can dress it in any clothes it wants but that
doesn't make it a pretty girl.
Repeat "we want Linux/MS junket/still want Linux" for India, Mexico, Peru, South
Africa, Australia, Germany... The Junket Press Release Division has gotton very
quiet lately after the very recent high profile India & Munich losses, yes that
is the _nation_ of India. If you don't believe India as a nation is moving to
FOSS because they haven't "officially" announced it in a press release, just
wait, or reread first paragraph.
Here is MS's current position, literally at #1, ( http://www.smartmoney.com/sandp
/index.cfm ). With an unassailable position (before Linux) on the desktop,
browser, office, and e-mail client (incomplete), they were looking to force
themselves into the network cores. And given time and no GNU/Linux they would
have made it; whether DRM, reliable enough server products, "extended
functionallity', or clustering of second rate os into something good enough,
they would have made it. Don't belive me? read about any of the IT reckage that
didn't believe it either. In the end even IBM would have been the equivalent of
a Dell for MS service contracts, SAP would be a MS solutions integrator, and
Oracle would be on the Wall Memorial. Wild statements, I know, enough to put the
UNIX/ Enterprise/Mainframe crowd on the floor with laughter, but I believe
without FOSS their position is unstoppable.
.NET's point is to "extend" the user space (i.e. (no pun intended) apps and
data formats) into the web space thereby "embracing" Apache & Java into oblivion
and proprietizing _your_ Internet. MSSQL is being folded in to the very
structure of the next gen file format causing I bet shivers at Oracle and IBM's
DB2 division. DRM is being integrated into Office file formats and e-mail
message stores. All of these moves are designed to further their two historical
control points, Data formats & API's. With these two control points they carrot
& and stick up the infrastructure chain. Before Linux and the "general"
awareness of "openness" , standards, source code, file formats, API's
(interoperability) and lsence terms the question of "if MS productX is cheaper
and has more functionality (in the MS environment) then why not use it?" often
resulted in MS deployments on the backend. And deployment of one part cascades
into another part, MS DNS to support "advanced features" of Active Directory,
Exchange to support Outlook "advanced groupware features" , MS SQL to support
Exchange dat stores blah blah blah... The 2005 product cycle is set to make
these past and existing issues pale in compasison.
This is why the UNIX platforms are dying. They are a collection of companies
offering a patchwork of solutions put together to form a 'systems" solution, yet
no part of that "system" has the incentive to improve the the other parts of the
system. FOSS is the _only_ other organizing force (other than MS) that addresses
literally the _whole_ IT "system". And that is why it is, ultimately, the _only_
competition to MS.
MS recognizes this. The FUD didn't work, organizations and governments recognize
FOSS's value. The value proposition isn't working, FOSS is free, stable, and
secure. The 'integrated solution" argument is regognized as vendor lock-in. The
junkets are comming back empty handed.
The only hope left for MS is legal, whether that is DRM mandates, or IP
litigation, or US trade Reps threatening WTO complaints. I believe as I posted
last week that there is probably a MS/SCO connection to the IBM suit. If you
substitute "MS" for "SCO" in all that has happened it makes far more sense. I
believe concrete proof will be very hard to come by, but that increasingly
circumstantial evidence will paint the picture, pj's digging on investment
companies, SCO's industry uniqe (to my knowledge) produt allowing direct
authentication of *NIX clients to MS's Active Directory, to the MS purchase of
SCO IP rights.
An additional theory occured to me on the MS/SCO licensing deal. Could MS have
also been seeking fuller access to the UNIX code base to determine other
litigation points?
supporting evidence available on request Clifton Hyatt[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 05:02 PM EDT |
Glenn and PJ: I am a Linux fanatic. I've tried almost eveything, Caldera, RH,
Mandrake, Slackware, Debian, Gentoo, Yoper and scores of others. My wife and son
love Mandrake jazzed up with some additional or replacment packages from plf and
texstar.
For my part I quit carrying a laptop through airports when I found Knoppix. I've
been running it as my regular desktop since last April. It's installed and
upgraded with packages from Sid - together with Orth's KDE CVS (KDE 3.2) debs.
I'm also a fan of the Crossover products and usually have both plugin and Office
installed. I think Knoppix is very good just the way it's supplied, but I would
love to see OEMs pick it up and offer it pre-installed. Harlan[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 05:17 PM EDT |
I had a thought on the SCO website going up and down, is there any chance that
the down times correspond to
the court times in Germany.... ie sco.com is up, but don't let the German courts
know!!! nm[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 05:48 PM EDT |
nm,
The clock work regularity of their web and ftp sites going up and
down dovetailed very nicely with nomal busisness hours in the Rocky Mountain
area. D.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 06:57 PM EDT |
A nugget of
good news has delayed the vote on Software Patents due to the demonstation
in Brussels. Dick Gingras - SCO caro mortuum erit![ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 07:05 PM EDT |
And speaking of Linux in China, Motorola has switched to
Linux so they can sell more phones in China. Dick Gingras - SCO caro mortuum
erit![ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 10:39 PM EDT |
http
://www.cbronline.com/todaysnews/4f80010b9f373c5d80256d950018c24b quatermass - SCO delenda est[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 02 2003 @ 01:16 AM EDT |
Clifton, Here is your formal request: I'm interested in whatever you have.
style="height: 2px; width: 20%; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: auto;">pj[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 02 2003 @ 01:35 AM EDT |
Wish I had a nickle for every time I've had to reinstall Windows, and compared
with Mandrake, it's a heartache. People just don't usually realize it, because
they just buy a computer and let it get filled with viruses and other malware
and excess, unnecessary goop until it keels over confused or dead. Then they
buy another one. Or call me up ("I didn't do anything.")
What is exceptional about GNU/Linux is, even if you have to reinstall, you can
so easily keep your home partition that it's not even an issue. Sometimes it's
easier to do a fresh install than to figure out the problem, although arguably
not as much fun. With Windows, you have to do all the drivers. It's much harder
than installing Mandrake, even if there were to be one piece you have to work
with, not that that has ever happened to me with Mandrake.
I agree that Mandrake is better on the desktop than Red Hat by miles. No
offense intended to any fans. And I love the variety. I hope it never
standardizes. Glen has it right. That leads to boredom. I have an iMac too,
and I love that it just works and works well. But it's only got a few looks it
can achieve and then you're done, unless you really want to work hard. With
Mandrake, it's such a delight to keep finding new things. I love emacs for
digging deep, for example, but I love having lots of other editors, because they
each have something useful about them, and I use different ones for different
types of things, like GEdit I always seem to use when I'm in a certain casual
mood. And I still haven't even seen all the screen savers, not to mention all
the fun you can have designing your own desktop look. You can even escape into
blackbox. I find it so visually restful not to have to look at anything at
all.
Thanks for the info on Knoppix in Germany, Drew. I didn't know about that. Was
that before the city decided on Linux? or after? pj[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 02 2003 @ 03:17 AM EDT |
Let me think, the Knoppix-CDs with magazines came earlier as far as I remember
but I'm at work and don't have the magazines here to check. And going on a short
holiday tomorrow... ;) Anyway, one of the governement agencies which is
responsible for securitiy was/is pushing linux and they had been giving out the
knoppix CDs at Linuxtag 2002. AFAIR they´re also the ones paying for that
Kroupware project development that´s been in the news recently. I think
they´re also the ones that are setting up the linux based VPN for the
German embassies abroad that´s going along *very* well, can you imagine a
government project that is beyond schedule and below costs? ;)
I'm a bit busy today, last day before the holiday but if anything else about the
latest injuction comes up on a reliable german website and I have a couple of
minutes I'll provide a translation.
Keep up the good work!
Drew Drew[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 02 2003 @ 03:29 PM EDT |
China: well, actually they can pretty much force people to use oss. The rest of
the world is different from the USA, governments have much more influence over
businesses, like they set an economic plan to develope a certain technology, and
get all the corporations together and tell them what to do.
If they want MS out of the country, they have lots of ways of doing it, like
unofficial barriers to the sale of Windows -- if you are a sofware vendor and
sell copies of it, every day another local government official comes in and
finds you have violated the health code,or neglected to pay a special tax, etc,
and pretty soon you get the message and stop selling windows.
One of China's main reasons for going to oss is simply money. They are
following the classic South East Asia development model of maximize exports,
minimize imports, and utilize the resulting massive trade surplus to invest in
building up infrastructure and industry.
Now here comes MS and they want China to start paying for its copies of MS
software (at present 92 percent is pirated), and China is now a member of the
WTO and so MS can apply legal pressure to force them to actually do it. That
means China would have to pay a couple of billion dollars a year to an overseas
company, and it realizes it makes much more sense to invest a couple of hundred
million in oss instead. Do the math: if a chinese software developer costs
$10,000 a year, includeing salary, administration, office space et al, then a
hundred million a year buys you 10,000 programers. You can get a lot of
programing done with that much personal, especially since they would mainly be
just helping with world-wide oss projects that are already well along.
This all puts MS in a very hard place, since the parts of the world where people
actually pay for the MS software they use are places like the US and the EU
where the PC market is saturated, and the growth in PC use is mainly in places
like China. MS can say good-by to any real revenue growth. david l.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 02 2003 @ 03:32 PM EDT |
About RedHat: its desktop is not as good because for a few years now RedHat has
mainly been concentrating on the corporate server space. But I understand it
has been getting a lot of interest from corporations lately about desktop linux,
so you should see the RedHat desktop getting a lot better in the next year or
so. david l.[ Reply to This | # ]
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