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http://www.pbs.org /cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030828.html

Ken

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"If the three countries agree on the plan" = Ballmer or Gates getting on a plane with a truckload of incentives and concessions. The US starts applying pressure and heavy political lobbying in these countries.

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With that in mind, note that as of 6 months ago Beijing Municipal Government has already signed a contract with Red Flag Linux (not to be confused with Red Hat Linux).

http://w ww.redflag-linux.com/jujiao/enews_view.php?id=1000000012

I don't know about Korea, but I would say Japan seems more likely to be persuaded by concessions than China.

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With that in mind, note that as of 6 months ago Beijing Municipal Government has already signed a contract with Red Flag Linux (not to be confused with Red Hat Linux).

http://w ww.redflag-linux.com/jujiao/enews_view.php?id=1000000012

I don't know about Korea, but I would say Japan seems more likely to be persuaded by concessions than China.

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Which probably won't do a heck of alot of good. Anyone following the nonsense about nuclear weapons in N. Korea? This is an example of how the Chinese and Japanese will deal with any US pressure not to ditch MS. N. Korea re-starts in nuclear program, and China does alot of hand-wringing and pleads that they will help. Yeah- China could make N. Korea shut their nuke program down by just giving them a mean look. So why don't they? Well, it's all about independence, and wanting the US to get out of their part of the world. And N. Korea is a situation that can be made to work to their advantage- so why the heck shut the N. Koreans down? The S. Koreans and the Chinese and Japanese don't seem too worried about N. Korea- the only country worried is the US.

If the US starts lobbying against any effort by these countries to build their own OS, well, we will hear lots about how they want to work with MS and the US, and they will probably throw Gates-Ballmer a few bones, but all the while they will be quietly developing their own OS. The goal again is no US interference- the ability to chart their own course without being screwed by some US software company.

IMHO, I agree with them. I don't want MS on MY computers, and I LIVE in the US <G>. Any efforts like Ballmer's trip to Munich will fail- there is no way any company is going to artificially keep the cost of information high in our eceonomy. OSs are an information input for business, and for years the trend has been for the cost of information to fall. We'll see more shenanigans from MS because they simply can't compete with Linux- Linux holds all the cards. It's all about free competition, and gates-Ballmer shouldn't get so depressed <G>. Why does all of this remind me of the final days of Ashton-Tate. Anyone remember them?

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Yeah, I am interested in RF Linux. Someone is supposed to be bringing me back a boxed copy next time they visit China. I suppose I could d/l, but the box decorations look interesting <G>. The goal in China now seems to be to get MS out of govt. offices, and the military in particular. Makes sense for them- Germany has been doing the same thing for years.

Stallman recently visited China (well, a year or so ago), and there has been alot of interest there regarding open source. Embedded Linux makes alot of sense for electronics manufacturers- there isn't alot of margin in electronics devices, so why give Gates-Ballmer your profits. I think this is one of the big issues that will drive the Japanese to widespread adoption of Linux.

This trend towards open source OS's was, IMHO, inevitable. Just look at the FSF's reasons for existence, and you will see why. MS could have delayed the inevitable by a few years by releasing software that wasn't so crappy, but they chose the big profits over releasing a good product.

I certainly shed no tears for those bozos or the bozos in Utah. I have had to deal with too many problems over the years caused by their software, and am absolutely infuriated by their response to competing products. That response is- FUD them out of business, or use other nasty tactics to make them go away. MS successfully pursued this strategy with DR-DOS, the windoze competitor PC-GEOS, and many others.

I thought the free market was about competition that would result in better products for all. So how come it's the people in open source, whom Darl is calling communists, seem to be the only ones following this path. One would think that gates-Ballmer, being self-professed capitalists, would welcome innovation and improved products. The only time Gates-Ballmer and Co. seem to be "Thinking at the speed of light" or whatever is when they consider ways to extract more fees from software users. As for Darl, what can you expect- he's a Moron.

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WOW! I've seen the level of expertise these trainers have (I've written some of the training material for one). "Jane sees the mouse. Click the mouse, Jane. Click, Jane, click!" is what you get. The tech support knows less than I do, and if M$ had any guts at all, they would open their bug reports to the world.

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Ashton-Tate were the developers of the original D-Base, I believe.

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Regardless of the reality - I still doubt anything will stop Gates/Ballmer going through the same motions that were once very sucessful. Even if all it acomplishes is a few token contracts - they will wring whatever $$$ they can and put a positive spin on it.

I'm actually quite curious about the long term inpact of having an OS forced on a population by an opressive government. I suspect the backlash and dissent will probably manifest in the form of worms and viruses for linux.

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I knew it was familiar from somewhere.

And it is a rather edifying story. :)

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I am betting that Japan sees China's LINUX direction as a huge market to sell application software to (as the Linus Torvalds quote above allows user applications to be created that are not GNU GPL). End User applications are like literature... as there is always going to be a better "look and feel" book that comes along that addresses user needs in a way that is new and improved. This Asian software future will happen if the three agree, that is, unless software patents prevent the books from being written in the first place! And if, the three jointly reject current US software patent LAW, and India, Russia, and the all the 3rd world joins this rejection of the feudalistic nature of some parts of US IP law, then the US software companies, and US industry in general, and Europe (if Europe follows the US software patent lead) will be at a huge software and industrial related disadvantage. The world that exists "outside of US or Europe's jusridiction" will just pass by. And ya can't blow em to bits to make them comply with a system of software patent laws that are flawed. So - check-mate!

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Would that be a violation of US copyright law, according to Heise?

PJ: You need to look at Montevista says about Darl's trip to Japan

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ht tp://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/os/story/0,2000048630,20278013,00.htm

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http://silicon.com/news/500022 /1/5808.html

http://news.z dnet.co.uk/software/0,39020381,39116052,00.htm

Whoops - ZDnet UK have removed the article but in talkback section someone pointed out it was a joke.

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http://silicon.com/news/500022 /1/5808.html

http://news.z dnet.co.uk/software/0,39020381,39116052,00.htm

Whoops - ZDnet UK have removed the article but in talkback section someone pointed out it was a joke.

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Uhhh..yeah <G>. Cringely has a column about the Ashton-Tate/Fox lawsuit that is interesting reading- he points out that SCO was Fox's co-defendant in this lawsuit. Anyways, what I think is important here is that this was another example where the industry was shaken badly by one software developer (Fox worked much better than dBase, and there were fears that dBase would prevail)- but in the end, information costs fell and Ashton-Tate went away. That's what will happen here with SCO.

Cringely also made one VERY good point in his article- David Boies is NOT an IP lawyer. I think that fact alone has great bearing on this case....

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ZDNet and the other "mainstream IT Press" have really shown themselves to be inept in their coverage of this SCO nonsense. I e-mailed Dvorak and several other "journalists" and told them how silly their stories were back in June. Recently, some of them seem to have "gotten it" and have begun to mention all of the things the open source community has been saying for months. Is this an example of the new and improved "Jayson Blair Model of Reporting" being used? <G>. Their level of credibility has fallen- just like the NY Times, which publishes "All the News fit to make up." Anyone find it humorous that the Times recently ran an interview with Billy Gates, where the man claimed Windows was "secure." "We're doing our best," Billy sez....

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His was a wasted trip. Sony testified against Microsoft's new standard DOJ approved OEM license during the Tunney Act proceedings. It gave MS a grant-back of Sony's IP. They publicly embraced Linux as their alternative then. It was only a matter of time until vendors such as Fujitsu Ltd., NEC Corp. and Hitachi Ltd., from which the Japanese government buys systems, started unveiling Linux-based products. What McBride has to say about Unix System VR4 can easily be verified and avoided by members of the CELF like Fujitsu, NEC, Toshiba, Oki,and the Institute for Information Industry (Taiwan's Government). They all co-owned and co-developed Unix System VR4. While McBride might have a clear title to Unix System VR4 here in the US, it's doubtful he can say the same in Japan and elsewhere. Note how many Japanese firms helped develop System V and partnered in USL. Hitachi struck alliances with OSF and partnered with IBM, HP, and Digital instead (go figure). Motorola's Metrowerkks bought Caldera's Lineo. They are all listed here: http://www.att.com/news/0491 /910403.ula.html or here: http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=Open+Softwar e+Foundation&action=Search

I am always fascinated by the frequency that these same companies appear in lists like CELF, Monta Vista's partners list, as memebers of The Open Group, and etc.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

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One of the big selling points for MS software is that you get to read all the MS-proprietary-but-touted-as-standard formats (such as MS Word). I'm sure I'm not the only one that gets sent simple documents, announcements and data in Word or Excel format.

If the government mandate an open-source operating system, then there's a much higher chance that the individuals and corporations can 'get by' with just running Linux, since all the protcols and formats are open. Ie, it breaks MS's 'lock-in'. If you break the lock-in, then you break the primary reason for using MS's products.

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This weekend I built a new desktop system for a friend and installed Red Hat Linux 9. The desktop on this system is far, far superior to any other desktop I have used on a GNU/Linux based system - RedHat's blue curve works well, all the font issues seem to have been resolved, nearly all the tools I wanted are available.

But it's not well integrated and there is a lack of consistency. Different applications use arbitrary menu choices which means that users have to learn each application separately. For example, why are Preferences under the "edit" menu with one program, the "help" menu for another, and the "file" menu for a third. Although to be fair there does seem to be some standardization on "Quit" as control-Q and copy/paste keys. These may seem like small items to professional users but they are confusing to entry level users. The desktop doesn't appear to work together in a seamless manner as with the Mac and Windows.

Then look at tasks like configuring a sound card. Linux recognized the system's on-board AC97 compatible chip, and appeared to install everything correctly. However, the system remained stubbornly mute until the correct control panel options were found and audio was enabled. Who decided that the correct initial setting for audio should be "disabled"? Can you imagine MS or Apple deciding that audio should be off until the user discovers the correct setting in a control panel? Consider the frustration for a neophyte user trying to determine if the problem is the audio hardware, the audio software, the system software, or his speakers. Incidentally, even with audio working CDs would not play in the system, and more work was needed to discover why and to fix the issue.

On both Mac OS X and XP, if you install the OS and then insert movie DVD, the movie will start playing. That doesn't happen with GNU/Linux based systems. I installed VLC to play DVDs - which actually means installing the RPM for VLC, and also making certain that the following libraries and CODECs are also installed: wxGTK, alsa-lib, libdvdcss, libdvdplay, libdvdread, libdvdpsi, mpeg2dec, ffmpeg, libpostproc, a52dec, faad2, flac, lame, libmad, xvidcore, matroska, libebml, xosd, imlib2, libdv, lirc, libid3tag, aalib, and openslp. These are available as separate RPMs. After all that, movie subtitles do not display correctly, although they work with the same DVD on a Mac or XP system.

And there you have one of the weaknesses of Open Source software, which is also one of the strengths. By splitting the task (playing a DVD) into a number of smaller tasks, many people can work on it; but in so doing the user has to coordinate getting all the pieces in the right place to make them all work together, which means he has a burden to know more about the system. Incidentally, the VLC application is also available for Mac OS X, but there it is a single file - download it, double click on it, select the DVD as the source, it plays it; no configuration issues, no additional packages to locate.

Please don't misunderstand, I want Linux to succeed. I also see the huge amount of work that has been done on the server side, and the smaller amount done on the application and GUI side. One of the downsides of Open Source software is that developers are generally attracted to areas that interest them, rather than the areas that need work. If you look on Freshmeat and similar sites it's easy to see that many more people are attracted to building developer oriented applications than to business applications. The GNOME/KDE controversy doesn't help - we should be trying to improve on Windows, not trying to get one-up on a competing GUI system on the same platform.

If GNU/Linux is to replace Windows on the user desktop, it will need to be as polished, as seamless, and as business oriented as the competition. RedHat clearly understands this, which is why they have spent time and energy on developing Blue Curve. I'm afraid more needs to be done before GUI/Linux can compete on an equal footing with Windows or the Mac. There are many world class developers working on the Linux kernel, but the desktop could benefit greatly from more attention, as well as work in areas that many consider less interesting such as useability studies and GUI standards, technically boring issues but vital for end-user satisfaction.

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MS learned the secret to that years ago: get exclusive contracts with businesses and schools for Windows systems. The average John Q. Public is going to use the same OS at home as he does at work/school. Period. It doesn't stress his poor little brain quite as much that way. Heavens forbid he should have to learn TWO OSes!

All China has to do is tell all businesses and govt. offices and schools to use Linux. The private sector will immediately follow suit.

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Businesses and Joe Six Pack bought MS Windows 3.0 and MS-DOS on Packard Bells by the millions. They seldom bought Apples highly polished products.

In the PC market whatever is cheaper will win period. People learned to use MS-DOS even though superior products were available. If the Consumer Electronics Linux Forum makes DVD players, there will be DVD on Linux. If Microsoft looses either of it's patent suits over Windows Media Player - who knows? By the time the EU finishes there may be some MS media players for Linux.

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All depends on which distro you run. My preference has always been Suse, and the new Suse 8.2 is really great- I think it beats out RH on the desktop. Think of open source as a set of building blocks- it takes an integrator to put these open source blocks together and build a distro. I don't care much for Bluecurve, and also prefer Suse because they are a UnitedLinux member (and, IMHO, UnitedLinux is the future of Linux). I also like Suse's admin tools better...Don't get me wrong, RH is a fine distro and RH has done much for the Linux community- I just think Suse is better. BTW, I did read a comparison of RH 9 and Suse 8.2, would post the link but did not save it- a Google search should find it. The comparison rated Suse as better.

I run several OSs, including OSX which is pretty good (Linux really cooks on the Mac G4s too, but is very difficult to install, or was a few years back when I did it), and one of my favorites is Plan 9. Too bad Lucent didn't GPL that code. If they had, alot more interest would have developed over this OS.

The Linux desktop needs some improvement, but all in all, I think the programming talent has been well spent (kernel improvements, the rewrite of X, JFS by IBM, etc.). And if you like windows programs, or have a couple you just can't live without, try Crossover. If you have never used it before, you will be extremely impressed.

Linux will continue to get better as it is embraced by more and more big players. In a few years, M$ might be the one with the outdated GUI, simply because more people (including programmers employed by HP and IBM and who knows who else) are working on the Linux GUI. Look at what Corel's involvement did for Linux. That made M$ very very afraid <G>.

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I wish everyone would give everyone they know a Knoppix CD. I wish they'd distribute them in computer magazines and in PR flyers, anything. It does everything you want, in my experience, as far as recognizing sound and things like that, by the way, so it certainly can be done.

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Glenn

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btw. that SCO performance graph is really too good, I just love the tiny little green spike Monday afternoon... ;)

Drew

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Specifically, the RPM thing. All of the above retail distributions have tools that automatically fetch all the dependencies needed for a package you want to try to install. I had no idea VLC even had the kind of issues Calibax mentioned, though I know mplayer needs a lot of dependencies and I was still able to download and install the whole thing with a single checkbox and a button click under Mandrake.

App consistency is a lot better now that big corporate users have started demanding it. Yeah, you have apps like Mozilla and OpenOffice with their own toolkits, but they at least try to imitate the dominant Gtk and Qt. App consistency is only present in the Microsoft world if you only use Microsoft products, and even then, if you'll remember, it wasn't that long ago that to get the options dialog in IE, you had to look under the "View" menu instead of the "Tools" menu. The situation seems better in Macland but as another poster mentioned, people aren't willing to pay a huge premium for a minor increase in productivity.

I think we're actually approaching critical mass on the Linux desktop. In another year or so we're going to have more people using it than MacOS X, and that's when you'll see the segment of developers currently releasing Windows/OSX packages either adding Linux or replacing OSX support with it.

I think after that is when you'll really start seeing widespread corporate adoption; consumer adoption is entirely dependent on retail computer manufacturers preinstalling it, and you just won't see any of the big guys pushing it in the near future due to their contracts with Microsoft (but what a bargaining point in their favor it'll be, in a year or two.)

I noticed CompUSA is bundling WordPerfect Office 11 with their PC's and notebooks now; what a shame Corel is in the process of being bought out by a VC firm with ties to Microsoft, but it does demonstrate that computer retailers are mindful of consumers' desire for something that costs less and works just as well.

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[1] htt p://www.cbronline.com/currentnews/63988bfe5f212f7680256d6c0018c9ea

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As the "tarent GmbH" and the "LinuxTag e.v" say, SCO has infringed upon the temporary injunction that prohibited to claim that Linux would contain illegally provided intellectual property of SCO. In May 2003 the "tarent GmbH" among other enterprises had obtained this injunction.

The regional court accuses the SCO Group GmbH of "negligent behaviour" by having claim on their website that the end user who uses the software linux could be made responsible for protection violations of intellectual property of SCO still after the publishing of the temporary injunction.

The SCO Group GmbH has two possibilities: It can pay the 10.000Euro punishment or the manager is taken to prison for 10 days."

http://www.pro-linux.de/news/ 2003/5909.html

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10.000, - euro order money against the SCO Group GmbH Sent of demon at the Mo, 1. September 2003 around 15:22

The regional court Munich I has an order money at a value of 10.000 on 28 August 2003, - euro against the SCO Group GmbH imposes.

The SCO has GmbH and the LinuxTag according to data tarent of the e. V. against the provisional order offended in it "the software Linux was forbidden maintaining illegitimately acquired mental property of SCO contains." This order had obtained the Tarent GmbH and further enterprises with emphasis on free software in May/June 2003.

The court accuses the SCO Group GmbH "negligent behavior" with the enterprise of its firm homepage, on which also still after it obtains the provisional order the statement to be read was that "final users, who use the software Linux for protection injuries mental of the property can be made liable by SCO."

"the regional court Munich I made clear in the reason the order money resolution that the statements of SCO as" substantial business-damaging expressions "are to be regarded, which concern" an extremely sensitive range ". It cannot concern to make with unproven statements at expense third a business with the fear. We will examine therefore, to which extent SCO made itself liable to pay damages in relation to the enterprises in the Linux surrounding field and SCO represents stressed attorney Dr. Till hunter of the kanzlei Jaschinski of beers Brexl that to the account to pull accordingly ", the company Tarent in this affair. "we rate the SCO campaigns as part of a strategy, in which GNU/Linux users and potential Umsteiger substantial are to be disconcerted. German courts now already repeats a latch plate put forward shows like this strategy to arrange is: to destroy as an attempt with not durable statements the market for GNU/Linux of products and enterprises. This calculation goes obviously not on ", adds Elmar Geese, managing director of the Tarent GmbH.

The SCO Group must pay the 10,000, - euro now to the treasury, otherwise managing director Hans Bavarian an order detention of 10 days threatens.

http://www.pro-linux.de/news/ 2003/5909.html

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the way this whole silly thing has gone, I am not sure of SCOs status in UnitedLinux. CALDERA was a member of UnitedLinux (as well as Conectiva, Suse and TurboLinux), but I don't know if the "new SCO" is or not. Certainly SCOs actions have been against the spirit of UnitedLinux.

Some standards are needed in the Linux world- a world of Linux distros united by accepted standards will make things much easier for everyone. Oh, BTW, Caldera had the crappiest release of the UnitedLinux members <G>.

And UnitedLinux has made an impact; you have to remember, Suse is probably the biggest distro in Europe (certainly in Germany), and to date I believe TurboLinux is the biggest player in the Far East. there is indeed a future for agreement in standards for Linux- whether it is called UnitedLinux or something else....

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http://www.sco.com/unitedlinux/

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I think SCOs actions may well have killed United Linux however, the news page was updated on 25 June to announce their UnitedLinux Ready program but the rest of the site doesn't seem to have been updated at all, SCO are still listed as a Linux vendor

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here

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click here

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The company that produces RedFlag has as one of it's principals the son of the Premier, I believe it is. There won't be any any high profile Ballmer/Gates defection junkets on this story, because they have already tried. They tried with China years ago and failed to get anymore than scraps and face saving contracts. Behind the scenes the switch rolled on. What you are reading about today is actually the expansion/consolidation of this position throughout the entire Pacific Rim. (If I were as industrious as pj ;) I would link all this but if anyone needs verification on a specific point I'll put the remote down...)

MS recently was rebuffed in Japan over a contract to handle the new government payroll system (a key contract for a core system) that shows there the depth of the existing policy change. Despite the junket.

At a recent Pacifit Rim summit they were drafting a working resolution on promotion of FOSS and the US delegation was fighting tooth and nail to water it down. They did, but only on paper, the countries themselves will act on their original full-force intent.

Ditto same on a recent global summit on IT matters.

MS has resorted to sending in US trade Reps to cry and moan about anti-competiteve trade practices but what traction can they get? Will they file a formal protest in the WTO? Saying What? Most of these MS contract losses are to LocalLinuxDistributor+IBM/HP or US-LinuxDistributor+IBM/HP. It is simply a different choice being made and MS can dress it in any clothes it wants but that doesn't make it a pretty girl.

Repeat "we want Linux/MS junket/still want Linux" for India, Mexico, Peru, South Africa, Australia, Germany... The Junket Press Release Division has gotton very quiet lately after the very recent high profile India & Munich losses, yes that is the _nation_ of India. If you don't believe India as a nation is moving to FOSS because they haven't "officially" announced it in a press release, just wait, or reread first paragraph.

Here is MS's current position, literally at #1, ( http://www.smartmoney.com/sandp /index.cfm ). With an unassailable position (before Linux) on the desktop, browser, office, and e-mail client (incomplete), they were looking to force themselves into the network cores. And given time and no GNU/Linux they would have made it; whether DRM, reliable enough server products, "extended functionallity', or clustering of second rate os into something good enough, they would have made it. Don't belive me? read about any of the IT reckage that didn't believe it either. In the end even IBM would have been the equivalent of a Dell for MS service contracts, SAP would be a MS solutions integrator, and Oracle would be on the Wall Memorial. Wild statements, I know, enough to put the UNIX/ Enterprise/Mainframe crowd on the floor with laughter, but I believe without FOSS their position is unstoppable.

.NET's point is to "extend" the user space (i.e. (no pun intended) apps and data formats) into the web space thereby "embracing" Apache & Java into oblivion and proprietizing _your_ Internet. MSSQL is being folded in to the very structure of the next gen file format causing I bet shivers at Oracle and IBM's DB2 division. DRM is being integrated into Office file formats and e-mail message stores. All of these moves are designed to further their two historical control points, Data formats & API's. With these two control points they carrot & and stick up the infrastructure chain. Before Linux and the "general" awareness of "openness" , standards, source code, file formats, API's (interoperability) and lsence terms the question of "if MS productX is cheaper and has more functionality (in the MS environment) then why not use it?" often resulted in MS deployments on the backend. And deployment of one part cascades into another part, MS DNS to support "advanced features" of Active Directory, Exchange to support Outlook "advanced groupware features" , MS SQL to support Exchange dat stores blah blah blah... The 2005 product cycle is set to make these past and existing issues pale in compasison.

This is why the UNIX platforms are dying. They are a collection of companies offering a patchwork of solutions put together to form a 'systems" solution, yet no part of that "system" has the incentive to improve the the other parts of the system. FOSS is the _only_ other organizing force (other than MS) that addresses literally the _whole_ IT "system". And that is why it is, ultimately, the _only_ competition to MS.

MS recognizes this. The FUD didn't work, organizations and governments recognize FOSS's value. The value proposition isn't working, FOSS is free, stable, and secure. The 'integrated solution" argument is regognized as vendor lock-in. The junkets are comming back empty handed.

The only hope left for MS is legal, whether that is DRM mandates, or IP litigation, or US trade Reps threatening WTO complaints. I believe as I posted last week that there is probably a MS/SCO connection to the IBM suit. If you substitute "MS" for "SCO" in all that has happened it makes far more sense. I believe concrete proof will be very hard to come by, but that increasingly circumstantial evidence will paint the picture, pj's digging on investment companies, SCO's industry uniqe (to my knowledge) produt allowing direct authentication of *NIX clients to MS's Active Directory, to the MS purchase of SCO IP rights.

An additional theory occured to me on the MS/SCO licensing deal. Could MS have also been seeking fuller access to the UNIX code base to determine other litigation points?

supporting evidence available on request

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• Japan Has Had It With Windows - Authored by: Clifton Hyatt on Sunday, March 21 2004 @ 04:35 AM EST

For my part I quit carrying a laptop through airports when I found Knoppix. I've been running it as my regular desktop since last April. It's installed and upgraded with packages from Sid - together with Orth's KDE CVS (KDE 3.2) debs. I'm also a fan of the Crossover products and usually have both plugin and Office installed. I think Knoppix is very good just the way it's supplied, but I would love to see OEMs pick it up and offer it pre-installed.

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The clock work regularity of their web and ftp sites going up and down dovetailed very nicely with nomal busisness hours in the Rocky Mountain area.

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What is exceptional about GNU/Linux is, even if you have to reinstall, you can so easily keep your home partition that it's not even an issue. Sometimes it's easier to do a fresh install than to figure out the problem, although arguably not as much fun. With Windows, you have to do all the drivers. It's much harder than installing Mandrake, even if there were to be one piece you have to work with, not that that has ever happened to me with Mandrake.

I agree that Mandrake is better on the desktop than Red Hat by miles. No offense intended to any fans. And I love the variety. I hope it never standardizes. Glen has it right. That leads to boredom. I have an iMac too, and I love that it just works and works well. But it's only got a few looks it can achieve and then you're done, unless you really want to work hard. With Mandrake, it's such a delight to keep finding new things. I love emacs for digging deep, for example, but I love having lots of other editors, because they each have something useful about them, and I use different ones for different types of things, like GEdit I always seem to use when I'm in a certain casual mood. And I still haven't even seen all the screen savers, not to mention all the fun you can have designing your own desktop look. You can even escape into blackbox. I find it so visually restful not to have to look at anything at all.

Thanks for the info on Knoppix in Germany, Drew. I didn't know about that. Was that before the city decided on Linux? or after?

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I'm a bit busy today, last day before the holiday but if anything else about the latest injuction comes up on a reliable german website and I have a couple of minutes I'll provide a translation.

Keep up the good work!

Drew

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If they want MS out of the country, they have lots of ways of doing it, like unofficial barriers to the sale of Windows -- if you are a sofware vendor and sell copies of it, every day another local government official comes in and finds you have violated the health code,or neglected to pay a special tax, etc, and pretty soon you get the message and stop selling windows.

One of China's main reasons for going to oss is simply money. They are following the classic South East Asia development model of maximize exports, minimize imports, and utilize the resulting massive trade surplus to invest in building up infrastructure and industry.

Now here comes MS and they want China to start paying for its copies of MS software (at present 92 percent is pirated), and China is now a member of the WTO and so MS can apply legal pressure to force them to actually do it. That means China would have to pay a couple of billion dollars a year to an overseas company, and it realizes it makes much more sense to invest a couple of hundred million in oss instead. Do the math: if a chinese software developer costs $10,000 a year, includeing salary, administration, office space et al, then a hundred million a year buys you 10,000 programers. You can get a lot of programing done with that much personal, especially since they would mainly be just helping with world-wide oss projects that are already well along.

This all puts MS in a very hard place, since the parts of the world where people actually pay for the MS software they use are places like the US and the EU where the PC market is saturated, and the growth in PC use is mainly in places like China. MS can say good-by to any real revenue growth.

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