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Mozilla Comes Through! |
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Friday, September 19 2008 @ 11:56 AM EDT
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Here's a screenshot of the latest language from Mozilla, and as you'll see, they absolutely have listened to the community's EULA concerns (if you click on the image, it gets larger). Instead of a EULA, the new page you get on install is a notices page with no "I agree" requirement, along with a link to an optional services agreement, and instructions there on how to avoid having to accept the services, if you don't want them. The notices inform you about the license being the MPL, that Mozilla's trademarks are theirs, not ours, and the link to the services offerings. I believe trademarks are important to protect, as you probably know from reading Groklaw. I haven't closely analyzed the services language yet, but my concerns about the EULA have been addressed. Bottom line: Now, you can install and use Firefox without having to agree to a EULA. The services have been separated out. If they were opt in instead of opt out, I'd be happier, but this is acceptable to me. There may be further tweaks, I understand, but I think it's time to acknowledge that Mozilla is behaving very well indeed now and demonstrating a desire to get this right.
On trademarks, please let me explain why I think they matter and why the reservation of rights is fine with me. Trademarks tell you when you are getting what you think you are getting. I want to know when I am downloading software from someone I know, like Mozilla, and when I'm not. That doesn't mean I'd only download software from Mozilla, just that I want to know the source of any software I download. If only Mozilla can use the Firefox trademark, I know what I'm getting if it says Firefox. That matters even if my desire is to avoid Firefox, because I'm looking for IceWeasel or whatever else. The fundamental point is that whichever you are looking for, you want to know for sure when you've found it.
That is the purpose of trademark law. And I think it's a good purpose.
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Authored by: Erwan on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 11:58 AM EDT |
If any.
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Erwan[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Erwan on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 11:59 AM EDT |
Please quote the article's title.
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Erwan[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Erwan on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 12:00 PM EDT |
As usual.
Hat trick in under 2 minutes ?
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Erwan[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Let the first be a laugh.. - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 12:45 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 01:54 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: J.F. on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 03:33 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Roger Houston - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 21 2008 @ 12:12 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 21 2008 @ 07:47 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 03:38 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: Pogue Mahone on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 03:44 PM EDT
- I am soooo missing out on modern commercials..... NOT! - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 04:19 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 04:23 PM EDT
- I am a PC? - Authored by: robobright on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 05:49 PM EDT
- In a MAC body. - Authored by: Tweeker on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 10:36 PM EDT
- Next Mac ad - Authored by: Tufty on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 11:17 PM EDT
- Another MAC Ad - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 21 2008 @ 08:14 PM EDT
- What is that slogan at the end? - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 02:23 AM EDT
- The hypocracy is stunning - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 02:29 AM EDT
- If Coke went back to Classic, why can't Windows? - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 05:15 AM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 01:40 PM EDT
- "I am a sheeple" - Authored by: lordshipmayhem on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 04:47 PM EDT
- I am a PC - Authored by: David Gerard on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 09:26 PM EDT
- Perfecta! (my term, my definition!) - Authored by: myNym on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 02:03 PM EDT
- Thank you SGI, for freeing the GNU/Linux 3D desktop - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 03:49 PM EDT
- A quote from the Yahoo! SCO forums. - Authored by: Nemesis on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 04:25 PM EDT
- Under 2 minutes..... ummm..... maybe..... - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 04:28 PM EDT
- thereg: "it might be that Moz fancies the idea of selling users' browsing history" - Authored by: SilverWave on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 04:29 PM EDT
- Yes, friends GNU/Linux really is better - Authored by: cjk fossman on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 07:25 PM EDT
- Peter Salus's book now available - Authored by: PJ on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 11:19 PM EDT
- Preliminary Injunctions Regarding Consumable Products On Brother's Request - Authored by: tiger99 on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 08:15 AM EDT
- I "USE" a PC! - Authored by: rsi on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 11:26 AM EDT
- Reg: Bill Buxton to change Microsoft from within, hug Steve Ballmer - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 12:32 PM EDT
- Telco argues against copyright - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 04:08 PM EDT
- Youtube supports OGG theora now :) - Authored by: mobrien_12 on Sunday, September 21 2008 @ 05:22 AM EDT
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Authored by: josmith42 on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 12:45 PM EDT |
PJ, in your last article,
you said:
I think this dustup could easily have been avoided,
and yes, I think it would have been better if it had been.
I
disagree. While it's never pleasant for the OSS community to have to voice
their concerns over something such as this, it does demonstrate for others who
might try to get away with something that the community really does care about
these issues, and so you'd better think twice before trying something funny.
That is, if you want to be considered a part of the community.
It also
demonstrates that it is not just the "extremist-commie-hippie-tree-hugging
fanaticals" that care about software being free. It's the whole
community.
--- This comment was typed using the Dvorak keyboard
layout. :-) [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: SilverWave on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 01:00 PM EDT |
Rob
Sayre’s Mozilla Blog - Mozilla is Linux
In response to a question I
asked:
… if it was as you say “Mozilla is Linux”, how come no one put
their hand up and said “Eh guys this really sucks”?
Rob answered with
this:
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Oh, it wasn’t at all like that. The dialog that got
turned on in Ubuntu is the exact same thing we have been shipping on Mac and
Windows, and we were working to replace it. Its activation was untimely in that
users got the old one. The good news about this little uproar is that the new
content and presentation will be better going
forward.
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Interesting but hard to square with the information
from Ubuntu...
Oh well no doubt we will find out in the end what all
the secret negotiations were about...
Well done Mozilla for sorting
this out.--- RMS: The 4 Freedoms
0 run the program for any purpose
1 study the source code and change it
2 make copies and distribute them
3 publish modified versions
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 01:05 PM EDT |
It seems to me that Debian's concerns with Mozilla were similar, but maybe
someone who knows the details could give a better answer.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 01:15 PM EDT |
Sorry for my ignorance, but...
Is an Agreement that Mozilla don't makes you explicitly *agree* defensible in
court?
Could someone ( say, who suffered a security breach and thought that Mozilla
services would protect him ) sue Mozilla because the agreement was not properly
presented?
For properly i mean: only if you click an "i have read this and i
agree" button you can use the feature
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: billyskank on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 02:28 PM EDT |
I can take Firefox and make something else of it, because it's Free Software,
and that's great. But if I do that, I can't call it Firefox because it isn't any
more. That's what the trademark does. If my modified browser crashes all the
time, Mozilla don't want people to say "Firefox sucks!" on account of
my buggy modifications. That's what it's all about.
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It's not the software that's free; it's you.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 07:14 PM EDT |
Oh come on kids, don't be so naive.
It's about mozilla protecting their brand-name and search box revenue. If one
of the most popular GNU desktops dropped `firefox' by simply re-branding it, who
would have lost out?
Users? No - they get the same software.
The distro? No - same reason. With only minimal patching, probably in line
with what they already do anyway. Ubuntu/debian in particular would already
deal with lots of bug reports about vendor products, so that would unlikely
change either.
Mozilla Foundation? Yes. Not only do they no longer have their brand and name
stamped all over it, they lose the search revenue, as minor as it might be.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 07:29 PM EDT |
One concern I have about trademarks is if they're used for functional purposes
rather that simply as identification. For example, a device that only allows
software that has the trademark embedded to run...but since you can't use the
trademark without permission, it effectively became just another way to lock
unapproved third-party software off a device.
I believe there was a court case involving a video game console maker in the
1980's or 1990's where this scenario came up, and my recollection is that it was
decided that the trademark *was* effectively being used as a functional item,
and as there was no way to make software run without embedding it, it was OK to
do so, but this kind of thing needs to be watched carefully.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 07:42 PM EDT |
There was at least did problems going on here:
1) EULA - just the presence of it.
2) FREE Software (FOSS)
3) Trademarks
4) Encumbered Service License
1) First was smoke screen, so all can feel good afterward -- We removed the bad
EULA, with a non-click agree screen.
2) Still Free software -- if you want to change the name
3) Trademarks -- Already had those -- Seee HELP -> ABOUT
4) Encumbering Free software with non-free web services license. It still
there. They could have disabled the services by default and then tell user
about the about the benefits. They could of had an add-on. Any thing, except
making the this on be default - then lying that "free" software is
being shipped.
It is this part that was not fixed. It is this last part that we all should be
up in arms about.
PJ???
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 19 2008 @ 09:54 PM EDT |
I'm confused here. PJ, could you elaborate on your statement that
"Trademarks tell you when you are getting what you think you are
getting" as it applies to the Linux trademark. I've heard of some legal
actions involving it but one would have to be a politician to claim that they
know what they are getting when they get any version of Linux.
How is Firefox different than Linux itself? [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2008 @ 12:18 PM EDT |
Worlds first high performance Dirac video codec implementation available
(and
is Open Source!!). And the servers are Open Source too. And it plays in
VLC
(Open Source). Is it a whole new ball game - for high quality video on the
web?
And is part of the Ubuntu release.
Linkey<
/a>
Linkeys
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 21 2008 @ 12:32 AM EDT |
I had a hard time remembering all the odd names when I tied to update a Debian
based distro.[ Reply to This | # ]
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