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A Microsoft Slur in the OOXML Saga -- Did I Tell You or Did I Tell You? - Updated |
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Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:09 PM EDT
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Remember I told you I've noticed that people who don't support Microsoft's agenda end up the victim of smear campaigns? The New Zealand Open Source Society is reporting that an employee at Microsoft recently sent an email to one of the technical bodies advising an NB involved in the OOXML ISO process, smearing a man's reputation, Matthew Holloway, apparently to undermine his technical input which was critical of OOXML. Standards New Zealand was took the claims so seriously
that they responded to parties who received this email. The New Zealand Open Source Society has all the gruesome details, and the reason I'm highlighting it here, aside from wanting to help undo a wrong, is because NZOSS request that if the slur, or others like it, has spread to other NBs or advisory bodies that you please direct them to the defense of Mr. Holloway's good name and reputation by Standards New Zealand on that page. Here's the request: We have discovered that Matthew Holloway was badly slurred by a Microsoft employee in an email to one of the bodies advising an overseas standards NB. It is worth noting that our own national body, Standards New Zealand (SNZ), took the claims so seriously that they responded to parties who received this email.
We discovered the slur by chance; similar information may be circulating in other countries. If you are aware of this please point concerned parties to this article. SNZ have given us permission to quote this email. I have removed names to protect the guilty parties. Sad. Why can't Microsoft just compete fairly, with decency?
Update: Look at this, will you? Jan van den Beld
works for CompTIA: The former Secretary General of ECMA International admits that there is some room for improvement in the ISO standardisation process that Microsoft's Office Open XML format has followed, but challenges critics of the process to come up with a better method.
Jan van den Beld was secretary general of ECMA from 1991 to 2007, and ... was responsible for advising Microsoft to pursue through ECMA the fast-track process to ISO standardisation for its Office Open XML format.
"If people say this whole ISO process is lousy, out of date and doesn't work anymore or is broken, I challenge anybody to make a new worldwide process," van den Beld told PC World while in Australia working for the Computing Technology Industry Association.
CompTIA??! Folks, the lobbying group funded by Microsoft and some others, the group that voted Internet Explorer the 'most influential' tech product of the last 25 years? The same entity that told the EU Commission in support of Microsoft that they'd never received any complaints about interoperability? Here's one paragraph from the 2004 Order of the President of the Court of First Instance, which found otherwise: 163.
CompTIA further contends that the serious and irreparable damage which that remedy will cause to the entire sector, and also to the members of CompTIA, exceeds any possible adverse effect which the lack of immediate disclosure could have on the public interest or the interest of third parties. In that context, CompTIA states that no evidence has been brought to its attention of an interoperability problem on the servers market, even though it plays a greater role than any other trade association in certifying the qualifications of technology industry workers in the servers sector. Is there anything Microsoft does CompTIA *won't* support? So if he asks you to lunch to tell you how wonderful OOXML is, just consider the history, please. Here's my suggestion, by the way, on how to improve the process: don't allow 6,000-page submissions on the fast track, publish in advance who can vote, don't change the rules midstream, require GPL-friendly patent pledges, don't allow proprietary extensions... my... let me count the ways. I know. I'll let you do the rest. To get you started, here's Rob Weir on 25 defects still remaining in OOXML. Actually, some of them are new.
Update: Bill Gates testified to the US House of Representatives, Committee on Science & Technology, on March 12th about OpenXML. You can watch the video on YouTube.
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Authored by: Nice Kitty on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:25 PM EDT |
Microsoft's rise, with pre-installed software, and on the Desktop, is not based
[up]on fairness and/or decency. Microsoft has not "played fair" from
the figurative moment of its' birth; why should be expected to play by the rules
which, moraally speaking, govern the remainder of society?[ Reply to This | # ]
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- its' -> its - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:16 PM EDT
- its' -> its - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:43 PM EDT
- its' -> its - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 02:01 AM EDT
- its' -> its - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 09:58 PM EDT
- No, not to understand. - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 02:59 AM EDT
- Weird? - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 09:10 AM EDT
- No, not to understand. - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 08:06 PM EDT
- its' -> its - Authored by: Nice Kitty on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 07:59 PM EDT
- its' -> its - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 08:21 PM EDT
- its' -> its - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 21 2008 @ 12:49 PM EDT
- A Microsoft Slur in the OOXML Saga -- Did I Tell You or Did I Tell You? - Authored by: NickFortune on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 05:07 AM EDT
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:26 PM EDT |
Because MS is spoiled and thinks it should always get it's way. Even if their
"way" isn't what is best for everyone else.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:27 PM EDT |
> Sad. Why can't Microsoft just compete fairly, with decency?
Because they would lose. MS used to have some competent people but it seems the
world has overtaken them to some extent.
It depresses me a bit that I started coding when Windows 3.0 was released and
now make my living as a programmer using .NET. Each iteration has just changed
the bugs, not lessened them (at least in the work I do). It is funny getting
emails from MS telling my how well of I am with their development products when
I know first hand what it is like for real. Do they really think their marketing
can combat our real life experience?
I started the move at home though, Macs, Linux and Open Office. We only use
Vista and XP on our game machines and my Windows development laptop, a Macbook
running XP in a VM.
Steven White.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: DFJA on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:28 PM EDT |
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43 - for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe
and everything[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Corrections Here. - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:29 PM EDT
- was took ? needs a grammar fix - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:45 PM EDT
- Mavis Beacon? - Authored by: Weeble on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 09:54 PM EDT
- Mavis Beacon? - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 04:34 AM EDT
- tuxtype - Authored by: grouch on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 02:16 PM EDT
- tuxtype - Authored by: wal on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 03:46 PM EDT
- tuxtype - Authored by: RoboTeacher on Thursday, March 20 2008 @ 02:27 AM EDT
- Corrections Here. - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:15 PM EDT
- NZ was took > NZ took - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:25 PM EDT
- here's Rob Weir on 25 defects ... - Authored by: ChrisP on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:56 PM EDT
- Corrections Here. - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 09:30 AM EDT
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Authored by: DFJA on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:29 PM EDT |
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43 - for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe
and everything[ Reply to This | # ]
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- 43 - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:45 PM EDT
- Cuarenta Y Tres - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 07:25 AM EDT
- Visa raises $17.9 billion in record IPO - Authored by: SpaceLifeForm on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:16 PM EDT
- Use and abuse of IP. - Authored by: hsmyers on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 09:35 PM EDT
- Bruce Perens Seeking to protect open source - Authored by: groklawdranem on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:05 PM EDT
- Groklaw Down in Europe? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:16 PM EDT
- Sequoia Threatens Suit Over Voting Machine Evaluation - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 11:34 PM EDT
- MS licenses Flash Lite and Reader LE - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 11:53 PM EDT
- Rob Weir rips into OOXML, again... - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 04:38 AM EDT
- IBM customer sued for patent infringement - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 06:19 AM EDT
- Dead men vote in Slough, as well as Michigan..... - Authored by: tiger99 on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 08:04 AM EDT
- JP Morgan insider trading and recent Qwest news - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 09:02 AM EDT
- Microsoft experiments with e-mail compliance tool - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 10:52 AM EDT
- Ivan Krstic leaves OLPC - Authored by: Winter on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 10:54 AM EDT
- Symbian win Software Patent case in UK High Court - Authored by: jmc on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 11:32 AM EDT
- Computerworld on Hannafords - Authored by: jplatt39 on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 11:53 AM EDT
- OLPC - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 01:12 PM EDT
- Microsoft releases Vista update - Authored by: tiger99 on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 01:21 PM EDT
- Off Topic Here. - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 07:06 PM EDT
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Authored by: DFJA on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:30 PM EDT |
Please put the title of the article you are discussing in the title.
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43 - for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe
and everything[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:37 PM EDT |
> Sad. Why can't Microsoft just compete fairly, with decency?
Who will stop them?[ Reply to This | # ]
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- The sad part - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:33 PM EDT
- Re:fair - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 10:53 PM EDT
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:37 PM EDT |
At least Standards NZ have acted on this slur and are working to clear Matthew's
good name. It makes me proud to be a Kiwi when I see my countrymen standing up
for others in this fashion.
mrpaul.[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Microsoft firing employees who don't deliver? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 09:05 PM EDT
- Why is President Bush so pro M$ - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 09:52 PM EDT
- Why is President Bush so pro M$ - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:42 PM EDT
- Why is President Bush so pro M$ - Authored by: John Hasler on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:48 PM EDT
- Wintel inside? - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 03:46 AM EDT
- Wintel inside? - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 06:55 AM EDT
- Wintel inside? - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 08:49 PM EDT
- one source.. - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 20 2008 @ 01:17 PM EDT
- Why is President Bush so pro M$ - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 08:01 AM EDT
- Bush so pro M$? Gov't Contracts! DUH! - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 10:19 AM EDT
- Why is President Bush so pro M$ - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 01:32 PM EDT
- Payback? - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 02:59 PM EDT
- No taxation - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 05:51 PM EDT
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Authored by: Hygrocybe on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 07:44 PM EDT |
I am doing my best to ensure that Standards Australia is made aware of these and
earlier developments, especially the critique/analysis of OOXML done by Stéphane
Rodriguez, March 2008
http://ooxmlisdefectivebydesign.blogspot.com/2008/03/bad-surprise-in-microsoft-o
ffice-binary.html
Anything helps I guess.....but it is always a favourite trick of an organisation
in desperation: shoot the messenger.
---
Blackbutt, Australia[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: AJG on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:02 PM EDT |
Because they would lose. They have no experience competing fairly.
They started out dumpster diving for code and "borrowing" computer
time. They've only gone down hill since then.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: overshoot on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:02 PM EDT |
Why can't Microsoft just compete fairly, with decency?
Because it
would violate their fiduciary duty to their stockholders. Sort of like lawyers
putting "officer of the Court" ahead of "win at all costs," there's no upside to
it. [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:11 PM EDT |
This is obviously another terrorist attack in the Microsoft Jihad against all
things anti proprietary.
The only way for the USA Government to counter this sort of unfair tactic is to
ban Evangelistic business techniques.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: RPN on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:16 PM EDT |
Because they would lose. And they know it.
With OOXML in particular it is starting to look like they will lose their aim of
fast track standardisation and behaviour like this is silly because it just digs
the 'dirty tricks' hole a lot of people have already taken some note of even
deeper so even more notice and turn away.
But it is wider. See posts above about development environments. See what's
happening with Vista. It would seem Office2007 isn't exactly going down that
well either though not attracting the same level of vocal criticism of Vista.
They are loosing cases that matter in courts around the world. Etc, etc, etc.
Bit by bit their dominance is eroding. But they are to marketing driven and to
locked in their old ways at the moment to reacte sensibly.
One could hope they have the quality to wake up one day and do an IBM turnaround
to become a worthy company again. But MS to me personally doesn't have the
corporate quality it takes to pull off a turnaround like that successfully. You
could always believe IBM might manage it. I just don't see it with MS.
Richard.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Bernard on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 08:21 PM EDT |
I have removed names to protect the guilty
parties.
I understand the sentiment behind this (not wanting to
lower themselves to the same level), but why not publish the name of the
Microsoft employee who made these accusations? Let them defend
themselves in public, if any defence is possible, rather than hiding behind the
skirts of their employer.
Oh, wait, that's right, that 'mob' of
anti-business, anti-competition, anti-democratic hippy open-source commies will
just smear his name with no justification...[/sarcasm] [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: tiger99 on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 09:00 PM EDT |
Definitely true! It set a new standard in insecurity, and inspired a whole
generation of crackers and script kiddies to subject legitimate users to much
misery and wasted time. It may also have been the world's first automatic virus
installer. And I am sure there is more.....[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:03 PM EDT |
M$ is very bad. Like not far from war crime bad.
IBM used to be pretty bad as well. They sure used to make like a Billion a year
in patent royalties. GRR.
IT is a place of evil corporations and revolutions. Not a stable place to
camp.
Microsoft is a dying slug with glass in it, however, M$ has woken up and is
getting more insidious.
Not much will happen unless rich corporations, government, etc, start making a
better commons for all of IT, including the people who work in this field.
Funny that people matter to a country and business, I though we all could just
install a M$ product and call it a night.
Even ODF is not that good of a format. Pdf sure is overused and ugly.
Keep up the good work PJ, helps to bring some change to the country/world.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: gfim on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 10:34 PM EDT |
Could somebody please clear up a couple of things for me? What, exactly, is the
slur? Is it just:Matthew is “far from objective” that his goal “has
always been to de-rail OOXML rather than making it a better specification” and
that this “has clouded a lot of his thinking” or is there more to
it than that? Does anybody have a copy of the email from the nameless MS
employee?
Secondly, is Matthew Holloway the same person as Matthew Cruickshank
as implied by this
(PDF)?Matthew Holloway (née Cruickshank) in particular has been
engaged --- Graham [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: sk43 on Tuesday, March 18 2008 @ 11:56 PM EDT |
Even if it was out-of-date, it had a very convenient collection of links at the
bottom of the page to all sorts of legal documents, such as the APA and IBM's
UNIX licensing agreement, that I have used and reused on numerous occassions.
Kind of like one-stop-shopping for all your legal document needs. There was no
other collection of links like it. It now appears to be gone. Sigh.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 01:32 AM EDT |
Umm... You do realize that the "some others" you mention includes IBM,
right?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3A*&q=comptia+ibm
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: kh on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 04:12 AM EDT |
I have thought for some time that if ISO passes MSOOXML it will lose a lot of
respect and credibility.
After seeing the kind of aspersions MS casts on people who don't go along with
what they do I think that if ISO doesn't pass MSOOXML MS will probably take ISOs
credibility down just for spite anyway.
So ISO is going to lose it all anyway most probably one way or another.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: kattemann on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 08:03 AM EDT |
There's a newspaper debate in Norway about OOXML between Håkon Wium Lie, CTO of
Opera, and Shahzad Rana, consultant hired by Microsoft to promote OOXML. HWL
mentioned problems with reading Word 2007 documents in Word 2003, even with
plugins, and Rana tells him to "not hurt his professional credibility"
(from my bad memory) by writing such manifest untruths.
The reply will not be published until after Easter, but will contain 1. a quote
from Microsoft's web page supporting HWLs statement, and 2. examples of 2007
documents as read by Word 2003 + MS plugin.
I see this as a smear attempt that is backfiring badly - really looking forward
to Tuesday's paper. (Monday is a holiday here.)
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 11:49 AM EDT |
Sorry but Rob's defect posting has been completely debunked already:
http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2008/03/how_many_defects_remain_answer.html
Seems that IBM is getting really desperate before the final verdict - tells me
something about how they see things now.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: clark_kent on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 12:11 PM EDT |
In fact, it is dangerous. What would happen if Microsoft ever fell like many
ruling entities would fall? (Stating that Microsoft can fall just like any other
ruling power has in the past.) But if they fell, what would be the result of
computing as we know it? For decades, information was free, just constrained by
distribution technology owned by the select few. Now we have the internet, and
in the way it is managed now, the distribution channel "is (almost)
owned" by everyone. Or at least, everyone has (ALMOST) equal changes of
opportunity.
If we had true open standards that transgressed all classes of society in their
utilization and control, the industry would be able to stand on it's own. As it
is now, Microsoft wants everyone to depend on it, so it makes the money, and not
anybody else. That isn't competition. That is Monarchy.
It is our choice, to learn, to grow, to live. You want freedom? Stop using
Microsoft products, period! There is plenty out there that is NON-microsoft that
we can use to get our work done.
The character of Microsoft and how it does it's business is pretty clear. If the
governments can't make correct judgments on Microsoft, you be the judge. Act as
an educated consumer, stop the madness, and take control with products and
companies that allow you to take control to the extent you want control. Not
someone that gives you the power to do something only if they are around to give
it to you in the way they wish to give it to you. Who says you are dumb,
powerless, and weak? Microsoft does, so that they remain in power, and you serve
the system.
My huge (Linux Desktop) computing system (my computer plus the whole developing
Open Source world) serves me, I do not serve my small computer system that is
part of Microsoft's larger system. (Do you see the difference in the computing
models? Open Source serves the Open Source user. The Microsoft Windows user
serves the Microsoft system.)
I have never seen in the history of mankind the number of people that keep Bill
Gates and Steve Ballmer rich while they steal their lives and livelihood, (maybe
except for the U.S. Railroad and Oil barrons of the United States' past.)
Look at the bigger picture people. Who has control of that bigger picture? Do
you? Or does Microsoft and other select Microsoft-partner companies?[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 12:28 PM EDT |
It wasn't clear from the context what the article means when it says that
someone 'advised an NB'.
Also, the link to the nz group came up 404 for me.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 04:24 PM EDT |
It might be worth noting that for MS certification for the MCSE, the only third
party certifications that are accepted as elective exams are CompTIA exams.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/partners.mspx[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: grouch on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 05:24 PM EDT |
This ad hominem attack by Microsoft is reminiscent of the one they used
against Peter Quinn in Massachusetts
when he dared to try setting up
the executive IT for interoperability. (See the entry for 2005-11-26 on that
page. Also see
the entry of 2007-01-25
and click through to Tim Bray's article in
which he states that Microsoft "tried unsuccessfully to get me fired as
co-editor, and then launched a vicious, deeply personal extended attack in which
they tried to destroy my career and took lethal action against a small
struggling company because my wife worked there").
For Microsoft,
interoperability must be avoided at all costs because it ruins the
anti-competitive barriers upon which their lock-in and revenue depend. If ODF
remains the office document standard, customers may choose any one of a
multitude of providers of software. If MSOOXML is labelled a standard, those who
are locked into Microsoft-only products can be held there without violation of
government procurement regulations. The destruction of a person's reputation
apparently means nothing to Microsoft, given such stakes.
--- --
grouch
"People aren't as dumb as Microsoft needs them to be."
--PJ, May 2007
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 19 2008 @ 08:02 PM EDT |
To MS, these things are War. No metaphor: literal, all out, winner take all,
WAR.
How does one deal with a party that recognizes no middle ground?[ Reply to This | # ]
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