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Dunn email claims Hurd approved reporter sting operation |
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Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 03:35 AM EDT
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Now there is news from the Washington Post that they have in hand some two dozen HP executive and board member emails, including some of Patricia Dunn's, which is no doubt making her break out in serious hives at the very notion of strangers reading her private email. I know I'd hate it. That's why people should not do such things to other people, eh? Violating other people's privacy is hurtful. Ethics 101. I've been on a Dylan kick recently, so the song that inevitably now comes to mind is his old nasal refrain, "How does it feeeel?" According to the report, there is an email that says that CEO Mark Hurd approved of an elaborate sting operation:
Hewlett-Packard Co. chief executive Mark V. Hurd approved an elaborate "sting" operation on a reporter in February in an attempt to plug leaks to the media, according to an e-mail message sent by HP Chairman Patricia C. Dunn.
This is the sting that ended up the Dawn Kawamoto keylogging caper.
The plan was this, according to the article: HP senior counsel Kevin Hunsaker and another HP employee made up a fictitious tipster, Jacob, who would "be" a disgruntled HP executive and would cultivate her by telling her that he was an avid reader. Then "Jacob" would send her a valid tip about a new handheld device, so she'd trust him, and after that a bogus tip about HP buying a computer data farm. Their hope was that she'd forward the first tip to board member George Keyworth, with the web bug reporting it back to them. This is so all about Keyworth. And guess what the vehicle was for the keylogging software? A Microsoft PowerPoint presentation. What? You thought Emacs does stuff like this? ZDNET refines the information: However, the report by the Post does not cleanly match the e-mails that were received by the CNET News.com reporter.
The Post reported that the e-mail described a "new handheld product," but the e-mails received by CNET News.com involved a purported rebranding of HP's so-called utility computing initiative for high-end corporate customers.
An attachment on one e-mail included an attachment with what appeared to be marketing material that attached the name "Infinity" to HP's utility computing business. CNET News.com never reported on the apparent tip; HP later used the Infinity symbol for one of its server lines. Here is what the email said that seems to implicate Hurd, from the Post article: On Feb. 9, in an e-mail to Hunsaker and general counsel Ann O. Baskins, Dunn wrote: "I spoke with Mark and he is on board with the plan to use the info on new handheld" devices and that "he also agrees that we should consider doing something with" the data-farm tip. So when Ms. Dunn told us that he had an overview of the investigation, but not the details, was that true?
On Feb. 5, Dunn sent an e-mail to Hunsaker: "This sounds promising. I will be in contact with Mark and come back to you with an indication of joint approval as soon as we connect." This Jacob story is one of the creepiest details yet, to me... HP role playing. Well, the watching-their-homes part creeps me out too. And following relatives around. But two lawyers were in on this sting. Two of them. One thing is for sure. Corporations are more intriguing than I realized. They certainly were fixated on Dawn Kawamoto at HP. "Ve haf vays of making you talk, Dawn! Resistance is futile." Joke. Joke.
But here's a question. What if Kawamoto had written about that bogus data farm? Might that have affected the stock? What if someone read such an article and decided to buy HP stock because the new computer data farm sounded great? The article doesn't say if any such article ever appeared, but ZDNET's coverage informs us that no such story was ever published. But what if it had been, and is it legal to put out false stories to the press? Even if it is, I thought the whole point of the HP probe was to plug leaks because they could affect the stock price. Why wouldn't a bogus story about a new computer farm affect the stock price too? You know how when you were a kid, your parents and other adults sometimes seemed so lame and alien and incomprehensible? Remember puzzling over why they did things the way they did? I am feeling kind of like that reading about the HP hijinks. Whatever were they thinking? There's more.
How's this for ick? DeLia made a suggestion: A Feb. 8 e-mail from Ronald DeLia, a Boston security contractor hired to work on the HP leak investigation as part of Hunsaker's team, suggested "a more elaborate sting" involving "electronic bugs" that would allow the tracking of calls between Keyworth and Kawamoto.
Whoa, Nellie. There are laws about that. The article doesn't say if it happened or if the idea got rejected, but does it not give one a feel for how wild things were becoming? I guess you can see the wisdom now of journalists requiring at least two sources for something. I'm guessing the HP guys didn't think of that rule, or they'd have invented two fictional tipsters, so Kawamoto would get a tip from Jacob and then confirmation from "Helen", a high level PR staffer. There you go. Two "sources". Yuck. [ Update: Groklaw member capt.Hij points out something I completely missed, namely that they probably did know the two-source rule and hoped she'd try to get confirmation from Keyworth. Duh. See what I mean when I say I totally don't understand their thinking?]
If I were involved in the shareholder lawsuit, my nose would be twitching, and I'd definitely want to know if the false information ever made it into an article. Were there phone taps? We know Sonsini said no, but what does Mr. DeLia say? At this point, after learning about the extreme lengths HP went to, or some inside HP went to, to plug leaks to the press, the question has to be, What is it they didn't want us to know? Does all this mean that the keylogging software was approved by Dunn and Hurd? After Hunsaker sent a copy of the Powerpoint presentation to Dunn, the emails go like this: Dunn replied: "Kevin, I think this is very clever. As a matter of course anything that is going to potentially be seen outside HP should have Mark's approval as well."
On Feb. 23, Hunsaker sent an e-mail to Dunn. "FYI, I spoke to Mark a few minutes ago and he is fine with both the concept and the content." The concept and the content. Might we now have some insight into the decision to keep Dunn on the board?
The article carefully includes a caveat, though: None of the e-mails reviewed by The Post were to or from Hurd, nor do they detail what information Hurd had when he approved the sting operation. The Senate hearings should be a fascination. And ZDNET says Friday there will be a press conference: HP plans to hold a press conference in the San Francisco Bay Area on Friday after the stock market's 1 p.m. PDT closing. An HP spokesman confirmed the event and said that Hurd would be there, but would not say who else would attend or comment further. And the Wall Street Journal is reporting that HP pretexted to get outside counsel Larry Sonsini's phone records too. How fine and perfectly legal does pretexting seem to him now, I wonder? We also learn from the article that an HP employee who had worked at one time for the FBI warned someone in the company that what was happening might not be legal: A computer-crimes specialist with Hewlett-Packard Co. emailed his superiors this year warning that the company's investigation of board leaks -- then still in progress -- was being conducted in a manner that could be illegal, according to people familiar with the situation.
That's damaging. It just keeps getting more and more appalling, to quote Ms. Dunn. Here's the saddest part of this extraordinary tale. A company insanely paranoid about leaks is now leaking from coast to coast things you wouldn't want your best friend to find out about you. Odd about life, how things work out sometimes. Meanwhile, Ms. Dunn was inducted into "the Hall of Fame of the Bay Area Council, a politically influential business group," as AP describes it. She is quoted as saying that she looks forward "eagerly, in the near future, to setting the record straight and going back to leading my life as discretely as possible." And you thought the SCO saga was strange. There's a study that was just done, reported by Reuters, and the researcher found that graduate business school students in the US and Canada were more likely to cheat than any other group. Why? The study of 5,300 graduate students in the United States and Canada found that 56 percent of graduate business students admitted to cheating in the past year, with many saying they cheated because they believed it was an accepted practice in business. Wherever would they get that idea?
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Authored by: feldegast on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 03:40 AM EDT |
If needed
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IANAL
My posts are ©2004-2006 and released under the Creative Commons License
Attribution-Noncommercial 2.0
P.J. has permission for commercial use.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: feldegast on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 03:43 AM EDT |
Please make clickable links (see instructions when posting and submit as HTML)
---
IANAL
My posts are ©2004-2006 and released under the Creative Commons License
Attribution-Noncommercial 2.0
P.J. has permission for commercial use.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 03:50 AM EDT |
It still bugs me how pretexting has been in wide use (abuse?) for a long time;
and the legal authorities have done practically nothing to stop it (perhaps
because they apparently do it themselves, according to Time magazine[1]).
But now that it's well-connected guys like Keyworth and Perkins, the state and
the feds get all excited about it.
Wouldn't equal protection under the law mean that the thousands of pretexting
victims before should be given the same attention. Yes, I know that's naive -
but to go from practically a "we don't care and we do it too" attitude
to a "OMG, We have to DO something about this! Won't someone please think
of the VCs" is sad in a different way.
I guess the upside is that some trickle-down effect may result that does help
protect the average guy somewhat too.
[1] http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1197918,00.html[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: capt.Hij on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 06:10 AM EDT |
I guess you can see the wisdom now of journalists requiring at
least two sources for something. I'm guessing the HP guys didn't think of that
rule, or they'd have invented two fictional tipsters, so Kawamoto would get a
tip from Jacob and then confirmation from "Helen", a high level PR staffer.
There you go. Two "sources". Yuck.
I thought that they
were banking on the two source requirement? If they provide one source then the
reporter would contact her old reliable second source. With the key logger in
place they "have their man."
This whole thing is simply awful. The sad
thing is that my last computer purchase was an HP product, and I purchased HP
because of their support for open source. This removes one of the very few big
companies that supports open source from the list of potential suppliers.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 07:55 AM EDT |
I certainly do not condone any of this activity and hope these guys and gals at
HP have some nice reflective time while wearing orange jumpsuits, but....they
would never make it in the real world of spying and espionage. Why in the world
would they ever do ANY of this communication via email?
Did they really think none of this would ever get out and someone might subpeona
email correspondance for the board, etc.?[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Agreed - Authored by: davogt on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 08:58 AM EDT
- Who says they were thinking ? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 09:12 AM EDT
- Sheesh - Authored by: jplatt39 on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 10:02 AM EDT
- Sheesh - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 22 2006 @ 03:38 AM EDT
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 08:19 AM EDT |
Really, if I want to read reposts of legacy media articles sans any analysis
beyond "Whoa, dude!", then I can get that at Slashdot.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 08:21 AM EDT |
From the references Washington Post article: <i>"Sending someone an
e-mail file, even under false pretenses, and then tracking whether it was
forwarded may violate confidentiality policies, but is probably not illegal,
said Robert Seiden, chief executive of Fortress Global Investigations Corp. If
the company used its program to try to access other information from Kawamoto's
computer, however, that would be a violation of federal law, he
said."</i>
I can understand web bugs being legal, but to track who recived the e-mail,
wouldn't they need more than an IP address? That implies the tracker did gather
information from the recipient's computer.
Also, where is the confirmation of a keylogger? I know a news story mentioned
one, but the tracker discussed in that story and elsewhere sure doesn't sound
like a keylogger.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: tknarr on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 09:54 AM EDT |
Putting on my Evil Overlord's hat for a minute, if I were faced with someone
leaking evidence of my plans one of the things I'd do is deliberately (and
carefully, to avoid having it traced back to me) leak other
mutually-contradictory evidence of various plans. Then I could publicly use the
contradictions to discredit all the leaks, including the truth. In fact, if I
were particularly on-the-ball I might start the leaks pre-emptively, being sure
to include the truth among all my false information. Once tainted by
association, it'll take much more validation for the truth to regain credibility
than if it'd've appeared on it's own.
I don't neccesarily assume Dunn
&co are that competent, but I also wouldn't assume that they
aren't. [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: jesse on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 10:07 AM EDT |
Part of this (the making up of a fake product) reminds me of what a friend of
mine did to deal with junk mail.
Whenever he signed up for a catalog
subscription (and said "NO" to external address distribution), he would alter is
name slightly..
John A. Doe - would be sent to the first catalog
subscription.
John B. Doe - would go to the second...
John C. Doe
- the third..
and so on.
Any junk mail he recieved that he
didn't explicitly ask for would have the addressed name
checked.
Whichever entry matched immediately told him who sold his
address, and he would then file a complaint with the BBB; and a complaint to the
company that outsourced the catalog mailing. [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: shiptar on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 10:12 AM EDT |
There seems to be a lot of emails that the media has that are going from
director to ceo to director to counsel, where are they all coming from?
I would assume they are confidential, and some of them are from lawyers to their
clients, aren't those a special type of confidential?
No, I haven't been going to WSJ, but if it's in there I can just go pick up a
paper instead of signing up.
I'm also not implying they should or shouldn't be released, I'm just amused at
the privacy invasion that is going on.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 11:33 AM EDT |
What are they drinking or eating that would affect the dopamine levels
in
their brains?
http://dictionary
.reference.com/search?q=schizophrenia.
Why do we find the phrase:
"dopamine imbalances" in a definition
of
Schizophrenia?
schiz·o·phre·ni·a
1.
Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by
withdrawal from
reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and
hallucinations, and
accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional,
behavioral, or intellectual
disturbances. Schizophrenia is associated
with dopamine imbalances in the brain
and defects of the frontal lobe
and is caused by genetic, other biological, and
psychosocial factors.
You gotta wonder what is in the soup that is
served in the Executive
Dinning Room, over at HP?
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 11:42 AM EDT |
As the HP scandal unfolds on Groklaw I am uncertain as to which actions by HP
are legal and which actions are illegal. For example, today's article states
that some people's houses were placed under surveillance. When is this sort of
thing illegal and when it is it legal?
My interest is not merely theoretical. At times over the last two and a half
years I have been under surveillance, followed, had my picture taken, very minor
vandalism, etc. I am interested in how much of this was illegal. I have also
been the subject of some actions not on the list which I know are illegal and I
have reported them to the police. Can surveillance etc. be illegal when
combined with obviously illegal actions?
--------------------
Steve Stites[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: fxbushman on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 11:58 AM EDT |
A Feb. 8 e-mail from Ronald DeLia, a Boston security contractor hired to work
on the HP leak investigation as part of Hunsaker's team, suggested "a more
elaborate sting" involving "electronic bugs" that would allow the tracking of
calls between Keyworth and Kawamoto.
This suggests that planting
electronic bugs may be an ordinary arrow in the quiver of DeLia's firm,
something that he employs when it is deemed useful. IANAL, but I would guess
that planting bugs to overhear conversations is an illegal invasion of privacy,
when done without a warrant. It will be interesting to see whether the MA
authorities look further into this, to see if DeLia has done it before. [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 01:02 PM EDT |
I know this is a bit off-topic, but I really need the emailaddress of Peter H.
Salus, in connection with his writings of 'The Daemon, the GNU and the Penguin'.
Could anyone please give it to me? Or mail it to me at 'webadmin at verbumvanum'
?
thanks![ Reply to This | # ]
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- I meant - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 01:18 PM EDT
- verbumvanum; - Authored by: grundy on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 02:25 PM EDT
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Authored by: blang on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 03:29 PM EDT |
"At this point, after learning about the extreme lengths HP went to, or
some inside HP went to, to plug leaks to the press, the question has to be, What
is it they didn't want us to know?"
I don't think you will find any one particular thing. I suspect the
"thing" yhou are looking for is a culture. Carly, and her successors,
and most of the board wanted to take HP to the "next level". They
wanted to bury "the HP way" once and for all. Teh HP way not only
means how employees are treated. It means how customer service, product
quality, public relations, sales tactics, attitude towards the market and
competition is done with a high integrity, where building trust between the
company adn all interested parties is of the essence.
Across all these fields, the highest ethical standards and an impeccable
reputation might have been considered a handicap, not an asset. ( I know this
was a huge asset in "old" HP. Customers were willing to pay a huge
premium for HP quality and service, and were very loyal. HP made a lot of money
on products that were priced far above competitors price/performance. Compared
to the competition, HP had a remarkable lack of Fud and Spin. I am positive that
Fiorina, the flashy Lucent bimbo, nor her successors never for a second
considered this a valuable asset. The new "Sexy" HP was all about
message, cool, splash, bling, and flash)
The Post-Hewlett H-P, looked in the mirror, and said "No more mister nice
guy". We want to use the same dirty tricks and strong-arm tactics as the
other big boys. Like IBM used to do, or the hyperaggressive sales folks from
Oracle. Or the hypesters as Sun. Not to mention Microsoft.
This is the reason they had to get rid of leakers, especially believers of the
HP way. With such persons on the board, it is very hard to effectively launch a
fud campaign, announce vaporware, lie to your customers, cheat the government,
bribe politicians, and a whole lot of other "business methods" that
are used by aggressive corporations.
The leaker had to go, because HP wanted to become "No more mister Nice
guy"
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 04:55 PM EDT |
One of the biggest failings of the so called "Ten Commandments" is the lack
of "The Ends never justify the Means." Maybe a rewrite could drop the "Thou
shall not kill." We don't seem to obey that one anyway. Or add it as eleven and
dream up a more useless one about rendering onto Ceaser ... for twelve. Twelve's
another magic number after all.
This crowd somehow convinced themselves
that any wrong was OK so long as a 'leaker' was caught. Even Mr. Hurd, who,
Elmer Fudd of Warner Brothers Cartoons would probably describe as, "That
Wryly Rabbit!" seems to have kept his hands, or email, clean by taking a
page from the Ebers "How to Keep Clean in a Dirty Corporate Environment",
lesson #1: Never using email; always talk in person and
private!
And lesson #2: Never get too specific with paranoids;
they will alway go farther than you suggest anyway.
Come to think of
it, that was King James's playbook too. In any case, the lessons worked so well
for them, maybe Mark Hurd has a jail cell waiting for him? Seeing Mr. Hurd's
spectacular turn around work at NCR and his performance at HP so far, I predict
even higher lows at HP. IBM, your looking better everyday.
Rule #1
Mr. Hurd, Miss Dunn. If you believe something illegal has happened, CALL
THE POLICE!" Or in the corporate sphere, the SEC. They have the
investigative powers you so desperately screwed up with. Martha's lesson
was forgotten so quickly! [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: MrCharon on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 05:08 PM EDT |
How do reports get copies of emails like that?
---
MrCharon
~~~~
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Brian S. on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 06:41 PM EDT |
Hewlett Packard's stock price fell nearly 5% today as investors found out
that the internal leak investigation might go all the way to the top. Host Kai
Ryssdal talks to Adam Lashinsky of Fortune magazine who's been following the
story......
Marketplace
Brian S.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 22 2006 @ 01:57 PM EDT |
If you want to hear an amusing, but very serious commentary on the HP pretexting
scandal, click here http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/8514
[ Reply to This | # ]
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