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HP Spying More Extensive: Who Knew and When - Updated 2Xs |
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Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:10 AM EDT
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We begin to learn now who knew and when, in an article in the Washington Post. They did broad background checks on their targets, but also on relatives of their targets. They tried to recover a stolen Keyworth laptop, so they could examine it. They targetted and sought phone records and fax records of relatives, like wives, of board members and reporters too. They got the records for 240 of 300 phone numbers they went after. The spyware sent to the reporter at CNET was not just to track email forwarding. It was keylogging software. Now as to who knew and when, the Post got hold of a report by the Boston PIs: The Feb. 10 report, obtained by The Washington Post, summarized in eight pages how investigators, to identify an internal leak of confidential HP information, surreptitiously followed HP board member George A. Keyworth II while he was giving a lecture at the University of Colorado. They watched his home in Piedmont, Calif. They used photographs of a reporter to see if the reporter met with him. And they tried to recover a laptop computer stolen from him in Italy so they could analyze its contents.The report, prepared by a consulting firm in Needham, Mass., hired to investigate leaks to the media, was sent to four HP executives, including HP's ethics director. That suggests that senior HP employees were aware of the spying tactics used as early as February. The report was sent to Kevin Hunsaker, senior counsel and HP ethics director; Frederick P. Adler, an HP information security employee; Vince Nye, a senior investigator; and Anthony Gentilucci, an HP global investigations manager in Boston The New York Times has more gruesome details. They discussed the feasibility of planting spies in newsrooms as clerical or cleaning personnel. In January, HP's Kevin Hunsaker asked HP's Anthony Gentilucci, head of HP's investigations unit, if the cell phone records were being obtained legally and got the answer that they were obtained by "some ruse", that it was "on the edge but aboveboard" and that they used pretexting all the time in other investigatory work. "I shouldn't have asked," Hunsaker wrote back. There just is nothing left to say.
Update There is, however, something else to report,
from CNET on the timeline: Two CNET News.com reporters were told Tuesday that their phone records were accessed the week of Jan. 17, the week before CNET News.com published a key story on a management and board retreat held earlier that month. A representative for Perkins said on Wednesday that Dunn told him that the stepped-up leak investigation did not start until after the Jan. 23 article was published.
"It was Tom Perkins's understanding that the CNET article triggered the investigation," Perkins spokesman Mark Corallo told CNET News.com on Wednesday.
And MarketWatch has this: The congressional probe into the pretexting scandal at Hewlett-Packard Co. could soon step up to another level as the chairman of the House committee investigating the matter is considering asking for special subpoena power in the case, a spokesman for the committee said Wednesday....
eparately, committee spokesman Terry Lane said the panel is scheduling another hearing about pretexting for Sept. 29. The committee plans to call as witnesses the CEOs of wireless companies Verizon Communications, Alltel Corp., Cingular, T-Mobile, and U.S. Cellular. Federal Trade Commission Chariman Deborah Platt Majoras and Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin will also be invited to testify, Lane said. And the Wall St. Journal, for those who have a sub, has an article accessible from their home page titled H-P's Dunn Was Closely Involved In Leak Probe --Emails Point to Prime Role
Of Chairman, Top Counsel In Setting Direction, Tactics," and the headline says it all: As early as summer 2005, Hewlett-Packard Co. Chairman Patricia Dunn and General Counsel Ann Baskins helped direct the company's board-leak investigation, as part of the planning and execution of many steps of the probe, internal H-P emails suggest....
The emails indicate that the two were kept well informed of the investigation's tactics and progress by the H-P security officials who ran the probe, as well as by some of the private investigators H-P hired to assist the computer company. It's worth getting a sub just to follow the Wall St. Journal's coverage. It's clear HP seriously miscalculated in going after journalists. They didn't like it one little bit. Now they have gotten hold of emails to and from the snoopers and HP personnel. They have an August 6, 2005 email from HP's inhouse investigator Anthony Gentilucci to Patricia Dunn, with a 3-page memo titled "Investigative Plan of Action and Questions Requiring Input." The memo was also sent to inhouse general counsel Ann Baskins, Jim Fairbaugh, HP's director of global security, and Ronald DeLia of Boston fame. The email asked for input on "intelligence gathering" involved in the 2005 investigation, code named KONA (later KONA I, when the January 2006 investigation got airborne, code named KONA II), and mentions a "tentative management briefing" on KONA set for Aug. 31. The Wall St. Journal: It is unclear if this meeting took place. If it did, it raises the question of who else in H-P's management, including CEO Mark Hurd, knew about the extent of the leak probe in summer 2005. They also have an email from Dunn to Gentilucci acknowleding the email and saying she'll get back to him. And the Wall St. Journal also tells us that the House Energy and Commerce Committee has asked Joe Depante, owner of Action Research Group of Melbourne, Fla., one more gumshoe firm involved in the HP snoopery, to testify at the September 28 hearing. Larry Sonsini retained Washington attorney Michael Madigan to represent him and he will testify, according to the article. As for AT&T, a judge has just given it subpoena powers, according to SLTtoday: AT&T, which is cooperating with a California investigation into whether investigators for Hewlett-Packard Co. broke state laws, can subpoena Internet service providers to identify users who set up false online accounts, a judge ruled. This would be in connection with AT&T's John Does case we told you about earlier. And another target has come to light, according to Red Herring, the CTO: The circle of Hewlett-Packard employees investigated by the computer maker has widened to include Shane Robison, the company’s chief technology officer, according to a source close to the matter at the time. ...
he source suggested HP’s decision to investigate Mr. Robison stemmed from the fact that he was considered a close ally of board members Tom Perkins and George Keyworth at a time of bitter infighting among HP’s directors.
2d Update: You will not believe this. They pretexted to get outside counsel Larry Sonsini's phone records too, as reported by the Wall Street Journal on Moneyweb: A person familiar with the matter said Mr. Sonsini, of law firm Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati, also was pretexted in the board-leak probe. Is there any profession that needs privacy more than a lawyer? Clients depend on their lawyers to keep their secrets. And now all his clients are looking at their datebooks and calendars and asking themselves, did Larry call me in January of 2006? And who will hire a lawyer who is known to be the subject of surveillance? A former FBI guy who became an HP employee warned someone in the company that what was happening might not be legal: A computer-crimes specialist with Hewlett-Packard Co. emailed his superiors this year warning that the company's investigation of board leaks -- then still in progress -- was being conducted in a manner that could be illegal, according to people familiar with the situation.
So now the investigators investigating the HP investigators will have to try to figure out who got that email and what happened next. But somebody knew there was an issue.
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Authored by: DannyB on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:27 AM EDT |
Posts off topic messages here.
Messages will be modded down for being on-topic.
---
The price of freedom is eternal litigation.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: jbb on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:28 AM EDT |
targetted => targeted.
---
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make
you commit injustices.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:41 AM EDT |
First: I think all of this spying is worrisome, and I certainly would not
condone it.
Second: How did the Post get "hold of a report by the Boston PIs"?
Third: So the media does investigation to protect itself... So HP does
investigation to protect itself...
Fourth: Should media be investigated for their investigations?
Fifth: Yeah, I have a slight axe to grind, I was interviewed by a reporter and
their final story was completely skewed. But my bias notwithstanding, question
#2 still remains.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Stumbles on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:44 AM EDT |
Wadya know. A US corporation using the same tactics as the current US
regime, erm I mean government... if you want to call it that. Go figure.
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You can tuna piano but you can't tune a fish.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: WhiteFang on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:53 AM EDT |
Ah-HAH. The HP Way has truly died an ignomious death.
Spying was "Business as Usual" at HP.
I knew that HP issued slightly different internal memos on the same subjects to
various groups in order to determine leakage at problem groups, but this level
of spying is unquestionably illegal and immoral.
<sarcasm>
Unfortunately, they appear to have made the most of the example provided by King
Bubya. I wonder if they'll start lobbying Congress to make pretexting legal.
</sarcasm>
---
DRM - Degrading, Repulsive, Meanspirited 'Nuff Said.
FDA Warns Consumers Against Drinking High-Strength Hydrogen Peroxide.[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Business as Usual - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 10:38 AM EDT
- Business as Usual - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 01:36 PM EDT
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Authored by: jplatt39 on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:53 AM EDT |
Marketplace, American Public Radio's Business program had an interview with Pat
Dunn two days before this whole scandal broke. She actually came off very well
in it. It was part of their Conversations
from the Corner Office series and if you will click on the relevent link you
will find her no longer listed.
I listened to it a few times when this
broke. Sigh. [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: bbaston on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 10:02 AM EDT |
"There just is nothing left to say." - PJ
Something to say:
Response
to SCO vs IBM proves to the Bad Guys that picking on the Linux/FOSS community is
a Bad Idea.
Response to the HP Inquisition proves to the Bad Guys that
picking on journalists is a Bad Idea.
PJ is both a (widely read)
journalist and a (powerful) member of Linux/FOSS community.
Hey Bad
Guys:
Don't pick on PJ, it's Not A Good Idea! In fact, it's a Bad Idea akin
to jumping into a vat of - untruth. --- IMBW, IANAL2, IMHO, IAVO
imaybewrong, iamnotalawyertoo, inmyhumbleopinion, iamveryold [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Brian S. on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 10:38 AM EDT |
I find Mr. Perkins comings and goings from the board interesting. He first
joined the board in 2002 before retiring in 2004. He was then re-elected in
February 2005, only to become the centre of the HP leak inquiry? Didn't HP trust
their new board member?
February 8, 2005
Perkins rejoins HP
board as Litvack resigns Computer maker Hewlett-Packard said Sanford
Litvack has resigned from its board of directors and been replaced by venture
capitalist and former board member Thomas Perkins....Litvack, an attorney and
former general counsel for Walt Disney, resigned Wednesday. He had been on HP's
board since 2002....
ZDnet
Carly Fiorina resigned at the same time with a
"thankyou package" that many considered undeserved:
February 12
2005
Fiorina leaves HP with $42 million payday..... Cnet
Jon D. Markman on MSN called her one of
The nation's worst CEOs
Fiorina’s reign at Hewlett -- combined with
that of the CEO just before her -- makes a great case study of exactly what not
to do. They took a company that was fantastic at doing one thing (printers), and
made it a company that is increasingly marginalized at that one thing, and truly
lousy at everything else. Her stubborn, ill-conceived purchase of fading,
unprofitable computer giant Compaq has utterly failed to deliver on its promise
of making shareholders richer with a soup-to-nuts strategy. The printer business
still brings in the majority of the earnings of the entire entity...... MSN
Then I
looked into the history of the board member which Mr Perkins replaced - Sanford
Litvack:
Disney lawsuit could ripple through Corporate
America
Lawyers for Disney shareholders will argue that CEO Michael
Eisner and the board — including Ovitz — violated their fiduciary
responsibilities. Shareholders allege they failed to properly scrutinize Ovitz's
contract in 1995. In 1996, when Ovitz was in over his head, plaintiffs say,
Disney compounded the error by letting Ovitz walk away with $140 million in
cash and stock....If the court agrees with the plaintiffs, the precedent
could enable shareholders of other companies to try to hold directors personally
liable if they fail to pay proper attention to operational decisions —
particularly, huge compensation deals.....
The plaintiffs say Eisner and
Ovitz announced the deal without consulting the board, even though only the
directors could authorize the termination...Disney directors counter that the
company's then-general-counsel Sanford Litvack advised Eisner that Ovitz was
entitled to a non-fault termination. When Eisner raised the matter with the
board on Dec. 12, before the announcement went out, "no director
objected."..... USA Today
Brian S.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 11:13 AM EDT |
Unfortunately the level of "ethics" and "morals" being displayed by HP is
reflective of society around us. It seems it's an atitude of: you have to be
ethical but I don't have to be. The ethics regarding leaking Board information
as opposed to the ethics displayed by the ethics director himself is a prime
example of that mentality.
Other examples that people can relate to and
possibly actually observe:
- Company managers using petty cash from the
company for personal needs vs politicians using tax payer money for personal
needs.
- Jaywalking - the average person doesn't have an issue with
actually doing it, but watch that individuals reaction if someone jay-walks in
front of them.
- Speeding - Observe who has an issue with speeding when
their children are out on the side-walk and yet speed themselves.
- Lying
- it's amazing how many honest people don't have a problem telling a "white"
lie.
Just a few examples, I'll let others put up more of what else
fits.
We tend to think of ourselves as civilized, yet the avg. display of
"civilization" by Society is indicative we're not much more advanced, if any,
then Rome was 2000 years ago. Of course, I'm not a studied Historian,
Philosopher or Psychologist so the above is just my own personal
opinion.
RAS[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Ethics vs hypocrisy - Authored by: brian on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 11:45 AM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 02:22 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: PJ on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 03:35 PM EDT
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- HP and Ethics - Authored by: PJ on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:50 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 06:54 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 06:19 AM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: LaurenceTux on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:04 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:44 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: PJ on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:58 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Ted Powell on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 06:13 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 04:57 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:18 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: PJ on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:37 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 06:55 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: jeremyg on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 06:37 AM EDT
- I did.... - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 02:54 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: PJ on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:42 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:57 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: PJ on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 06:02 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 06:56 PM EDT
- HP and Ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 11:29 AM EDT
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Authored by: tknarr on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 11:32 AM EDT |
I think the "I shouldn't have asked." quote is a killer. That's a clear
indication Hunsaker believes the activity's questionable, at which point he has
a duty to inform Dunn both as the person she delegated the job to and as ethics
director. Willful complicity, anyone? [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 12:00 PM EDT |
This is a sad comment that the Ethics Officer and a Lawyer for a company
apparently suspected it was illegal and then regretted looking into it.
I also wonder if the comment had other context?
I also note in the article reference a question and answer about "state
laws" and but answer referred to "federal laws". That would be
enough for me to say "you didn't answer my question". Neither seems to
be the legal opinion referred to earlier.
I'd like to see the entire exchange, just to be sure the comments weren't taken
out of context or sensationalized.
I have another question, who has jurisdiction? If it is true that there are no
Federal Laws, and if the operators were in Florida, which may not have any
state laws, does California have jurisdiction? It seems to me there may have
been no crime committed in California.
I imagine we will see a federal law soon.
---
Rsteinmetz - IANAL therefore my opinions are illegal.
"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."
Randy Newman - The Title Theme from Monk
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 12:37 PM EDT |
We use pretext interviews on a number of investigations to extract
information and/or make covert purchases of stolen property, in a sense, all
undercover operations.
This is HP's own head of global investigations
saying this. [ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 12:42 PM EDT |
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115869970952067971.html?mod=home_whats_news_us
"H-P's Dunn Was Closely Involved in Leak Probe"
Some Juicy excerpts:
"...H-P emails reviewed by The Wall Street Journal suggest that Ms. Dunn
and Ms. Baskins were closely involved in helping direct the course of the
investigation. The emails indicate that the two were kept well informed of the
investigation's tactics and progress by the H-P security officials who ran the
probe, as well as by some of the private investigators H-P hired to assist the
computer company."
"Mr. Gentilucci's memo described an intensive investigation in 2005,
code-named Project KONA, in which H-P's security officials cultivated
confidential "informants" to develop leads on which directors may have
met with which journalists. In one part of the document labeled "Next
Steps," Mr. Gentilucci said he intended to "follow up" with H-P's
vice president of media relations, Robert Sherbin, about a number of potential
leads that Mr. Sherbin had provided him."
---
Clocks
"Ita erat quando hic adveni."[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Brian S. on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 01:09 PM EDT |
The spokesman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee said that Rep.
Joe Barton (R-Tex.), the committee chairman, is seeking the power to issue
subpoenas "off hours" without a formal committee vote to summon witnesses to
testify in the probe about allegedly illegal actions H-P took to investigated
leaks coming from its corporate boardroom. The committee normally has to vote on
issuing such subpoenas, but will hold a vote on whether to give Barton, and Rep.
John Dingell (D-Mich.), the ranking minority member on the committee, the
off-hours subpoena powers.
MarketWatch Brian S.
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 01:28 PM EDT |
0. They did broad background checks on their targets, but also on relatives of
their targets. PJ has done background checks on lawyers in the SCO case.
Relatives might be a bit far, but there's no indication the checks were done
illegally. Following up on references on a resume is a background check,
folks.
1. HP tries to recover a stolen laptop to see what's on it. What's wrong with
that? If my laptop was stolen, I'd try to recover it, too. It's not clear in
the article, but it is probably a laptop that belongs to HP.
2. They watched his home. Nothing illegal about that. I watch my neighbor's
home all the time. Now breaking and entering would have been a problem.
3. They used photographs of a reporter to see if that reporter met with him.
Nothing illegal about that that I know of.
4. They discussed the feasibility of planting spies in newsrooms as clerical or
cleaning personnel. Nothing wrong with discussing the options. Note how the
drive-by media neglects to give the context. For all we know, this may have
been a brainstorming session, and this one was summarily dismissed.
5. A guy asks if cell phone records are being obtained legally, and the answer
he gets is that it's above board. Nothing wrong there. His reply indicates
that he thought they were close to the edge, but driving 55 in a 55 zone is not
illegal.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 02:44 PM EDT |
There's one thing left to say: if this is so awful as it looks, what hope can we
have that it's an isolated incident?
What if we find out that every major corporation does that sort of thing
routinely? What if we find out that it's business as usual to spy on your
employees at work and at home?
What then?[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Business as usual? - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 04:04 PM EDT
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Authored by: lordshipmayhem on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 03:13 PM EDT |
Every time you think there's nothing more to say, something else comes up and
proves that there's something more to say.
I would not have believed a professionally managed company would behave in such
an unethical, paranoid, uncaring of the consequences, supremely witless manner
as, say, a Microsoft or SCOX would. And then along comes HP to prove me wrong.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: bwcbwc on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 05:32 PM EDT |
That's not a leak problem!
Now this. This is a leak problem!
Ironic/Karmic that there are so many interesting/useful leaks coming out of the
various probes of HP's leak probe. HP is being harmed far more by these leaks
than by any of the leaks they were attempting to investigate in the first place.
And that's without even considering the potential legal action in California and
possibly other jurisdictions.[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: thombone on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 08:16 PM EDT |
Maybe I am dim or something but I have been trying to follow this story, and am
left with one unanswered question that I can't seem to find the answer to.
Why was this happening in the first place? All of the pretexting, the spying,
the covert stuff? Why the Private Investigators? Who was spying on who and why?
It's what I don't understand: why all of the paranoia in the first place? What
was behind it that caused all of those execs to go batty on one another, lose
trust the way they did, and all of that.
In other words, what were they trying to dig up in the first place? How did it
come to this?[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 09:03 PM EDT |
He is a politician and is apparently running for governor of California. He has
just filed a suit against several car makers for polluting California's air.
What a grandstand play.
---
Rsteinmetz - IANAL therefore my opinions are illegal.
"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."
Randy Newman - The Title Theme from Monk
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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 20 2006 @ 11:58 PM EDT |
The problem with the HP XOs is "Psychology."
They, the "HP XOs," are above any "Law."
They, the "HP XOs," are above any "Ethics."
They, the "HP XOs," can "buy" any solution
that "fits" their budget.
They, the "HP XOs," will pay for the "termination"
of anyone who posesses a threat to "their
monetary standing."
Actually, the "HP XOs" are a laughing stock.
They have "Royally" bungled this!
This gives us a lesson in the "real world."
They, "HP" did themseslves in by their oun
stupidity!
This shows that other corporations are much
more "educated" in the "arts of subtrafuge."
Toddles[ Reply to This | # ]
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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 21 2006 @ 02:07 AM EDT |
well, who needs their confidentiality most... I'm surprised lawyers are not
kicking up a stink over this warrantless obtaining of phone records by your
government... It's a complete breach of their lawyer/client confidentiality...
the same with doctors and other medical professionals... why aren't they kicking
up a stink as well... the confidentiality of their patients is being
compromised.[ Reply to This | # ]
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