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Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 02:41 AM EDT

For all of you out there who think GNU/Linux software is "too hard" to install, take a look at this: Mad Penguin's short flash movie that shows you exactly what it's like to install SUSE 10.0, an actual installation on a virtual machine. I've been talking to Fernanda Weiden about documentation, and I think documentation should be movies, just like this one. It's the 21st century.

I couldn't help but notice in the movie that he didn't read the EULA, though. Sigh. My work is not yet done.

It will take you 2 minutes and one second to watch the little movie, and if you've been holding back from trying Linux, it might just change your life.

The reviewer on Mad Penguin, Adam Doxtater, says he didn't have to change one thing after the installation was finished. Everything "just worked" for him. When FUDsters whine about Linux, that's what they always demand, and Novell seems to have done it. It took less than one hour to install. It'll take you almost that long maybe to read the review. Kidding, but it's a detailed review, and for those who love details, I recommend the review in its entirety. More reviews here.

Here's what you get:

Features

  • Linux kernel 2.6.13-15
  • X.org 6.8.2
  • gcc 4.0.2cvs/glibc 2.3.5
  • KDE 3.4.2
  • GNOME 2.12
  • OpenOffice.org 1.9.125 productivity suite
  • Firefox 1.0.6 web browser
  • Evolution 2.4 email/calendaring
  • Gimp 2.2.8 image editor
  • K3b 0.12.3 CD/DVD burning
  • Gaim 1.5.0 instant messenger
  • Amarok 1.3.1 media player
  • F-Spot 0.1.2 photo manager
  • Beagle 0.0.13 desktop search tool

Actually, you get much more than what's on that list. You can see more software choices in the movie, and the Novell SUSE Linux product page lists still more, mentioning easy wireless networking, the GIMP, XEN 3 virtualization (preview), Bluetooth, security tools, Apache, MySQL and PostgreSQL.

You can download for the cost of your blank CDs, or you can purchase it for $59.95 if you are in the US, and you can buy online. I will probably do both, after reading the two reviews. I can't wait, so I'll download it, and then I will buy also, so that I can support wonderful FOSS software and because you get extras, like documentation in a book, which is good if you ever can't get online. If you are new to GNU/Linux, there is a supported version, with 90-day end-user installation support.

There are a variety of download choices. You can download the version with commercial software [list], or download a completely Open Source version. You can even download a live version, which runs from a bootable DVD and isn't installed on your hard disk, in case you want to take SUSE on a test drive first.

This is a release specially designed for home users. I am genuinely thrilled about that. I've used Mandriva for years, because it too thinks about desktop users, and I am so happy to see Novell doing this. Here's what SUSE says about itself:

"SUSE Linux 10.0 features an easy-to-install Linux operating system that lets you browse the Web, send e-mail, chat with friends, organize digital photos, play movies and songs, and create documents and spreadsheets. You can even use it to host a Web site or blog, create a home network, and develop your own applications. It is the most recent stabilized, fully integrated edition of SUSE Linux. If you are looking for a stable version of Linux to run on your personal computer or home server, this is the best choice."

As it happens, Groklaw's own miraceti has just sent me his first impression of his install of SUSE 10.0, the 64-bit version. He is a Network Administrator in an Australian High School and has worked as an administrator for 20 years (though he says it feels like a thousand at times).

: )

I asked him to explain a few things that most of you would take for granted, so that any new readers wishing to take the GNU/Linux plunge would have a clue what to do. In your comments, if you'd like to elaborate on miraceti's review, feel free to add your experiences, as well as any tips for newcomers.

He says you can sum up SUSE 10.0 in one word: Sweet! He did both an install and an upgrade. It was a piece of cake, although he did have two things that didn't immediately work, and he tells how how fixed the issues.

He kept telling me about the elegant beauty of the installation, and I could get a feel for it not only from the install movie but the screenshots in the Mad Penguin review, which recommends SUSE 10.0 both for newbies and for small businesses, too, by the way. If you need it, here's some documentation. And if you really hit a rock, you can buy 20 minutes of help per incident. Lots of support options.

Congratulations, Novell. Enjoy, everyone! I'm off to download it myself. And to newcomers, come on in. The water's fine.

***************************

My first impressions of OpenSuse 10 (64 bit)
~by miraceti

Hardware Athlon 64 3000 MSI MS-7093 Mainboard with 1G DDR2 400

OpenSuse can be downloaded from the OpenSuse site at http://www.opensuse.org/Released_Version . There you get the choice of an FTP or Torrent download. I downloaded OpenSuse 10 using a torrent, with the Azureus torrent client. Torrents can take a while to download but the process is very reliable, which is why I chose that method. When finished I had it as a set of 5 CD isos. I burned the isos using the CD Tools option in K3B which automatically checks the MD5 checksum to ensure that the isos are intact.

Being a cautious type, I installed a spare hdd I had lying round to try a test installation. The install went perfectly with all hardware detected perfectly, sound, nic, video, printer (Samsung 1710) -- there was no hiccup or issue during the installation at all. I just clicked through, and the system allowed me to log in. I must say I like the new eye candy in the login manager.

Open Suse comes with the usual huge variety of apps we have come to expect from the major distros, for example the office suite OpenOffice 2, the excellent PIM, Kontact, including the excellent email client, Kmail, as well as a Calendar, To Do list and RSS feed. Video viewing is more than adequately catered for with Xine, not to mention the mp3 player, Amarok, and its counterpart, GRip, to encode oggs or mp3s. OpenSuse 10 comes with the web browsers Konqueror and Firefox 1.0.7, which is great. I prefer Firefox version 1.5, even though its still beta, and it has not missed a beat for me, oddly though. I use Konqueror as well, and in my opinion it is equal to Firefox. Why do I use Konqueror as well? It is the default browser, and because I like it, I don't set the default to Firefox.

The list goes on and on, and I would fill many pages if I listed all the apps included with OpenSuse 10, and must admit that I have not tried all the apps, or even half of them. These are just some of the ones I use very regularly and depend on for my work. Needless to say I tested these as the first thing I did, once I had it installed, and all worked perfectly. Perfectly. So I was feeling a little more courageous and decided to upgrade my existing Suse 9.3 installation with all of my important data backed up on a separate hdd, just to be sure.

The upgrade was simply a repeat performance of the fresh installation, every thing worked flawlessly during the installation, and when I logged in I was greeted by my old desktop and all was well. I had installed Firefox 1.5 Beta and it was still there and working perfectly. My other programs worked just fine too, with two small exceptions, namely mplayer to watch DVDs and avis and azureus.

I resolved the video problem simply by downloading the xine library files from Packman and using the xine viewer. I would reccommend that users add packman to their installation sourced in Yast, as it makes available all of the applications at Packman To do this is a simple matter of opening Yast and then opening the Installation Source option. Select Http and then enter the url as packman.iu-bremen.de and the path as suse/10.0 and then also click on the Refresh button to turn Refresh on, just to keep your Packman database up to date.

Azureus seems to have a problem with the version of Java installed by default, but I have found that really is a non-issue as OpenSuse 10 comes with Ktorrent which works perfectly, thus neatly sidestepping the problem.

One of the really nice things about OpenSuse 10 is the fact that it comes with apt-get, which allows the easy installation of software from repositories. As you may already know, apt-get is famous for its ease of use and lack of dependency problems. Also the quickstarter in OpenOffice2 makes the Writer program (my personal favourite) load in 3 seconds. Yep, just checked it again -- 3 seconds!

On the whole, I am very happy with OpenSuse 10 -- it is smooth, trouble-free and extremely easy to use. I would be very happy to put a Windows user in front of it with 10 minutes of instruction, and I am certain that they would be happily productive at a basic level in minutes.

I give it my highest reccomendation and congratulations to OpenSuse for an extremely powerful, professional and -- dare I say it? -- beautiful package.


  


Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0 | 374 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections here please
Authored by: entre on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 02:47 AM EDT
For PJ

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell Suse 10 is a truly awsome Linux distro
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 02:55 AM EDT

I have been a long time user of Redhat Linux distributions.
I have been switching back and forth between Linux and
Windows. I admit that none of the Redhat distributions are
really ready for the prime time desktop use. Things have
to be tweaked tweaked and then tweaked some more. An avg.
user cannot be expected to do alot of work before they
can start using the system.

I got tired of Fedora and decided to give Suse a shot. I
was blown away! Eveything on my laptop just worked. The
sound card, the wireless card, power management. And the
menu layout makes so much more sense. And the fonts are not
making me blind. And I dont have to put up with buggy buggy
Nautilis. Konqueror is so much better and polished. Oh and
that up2date from Redhat. Oh man I have wondered how that
thing ever passed QA.

Anyway, if you have been suffering Linux through Redhat,
you owe it to yourself to try out Novel Suse 10. This is
how a Linux distribution is done! Ofcourse there is room
for improvement. There will always be room for improvement.
But Suse is well ahead of all the other Linux distros out
there in my opinion.

It will be a very long time before I give Fedora another
try. I am very happy to have found Suse. Suse is,
"Linux done right!"

[ Reply to This | # ]

Off Topic
Authored by: ankylosaurus on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 03:14 AM EDT
Please make links clickable following the instructions on the comment entry page
- and remember to post it as HTML.

Thanks.

---
The Dinosaur with a Club at the End of its Tail

[ Reply to This | # ]

A downside of Suse 10
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 03:48 AM EDT
If you select the language as English (UK) then you get the UK keyboard, which
in Australia is not what you want.

That's why I stay with Fedora Core, there you get to choose both the language
and the keyboard separately.

Howard (who WILL create an account - one day)

[ Reply to This | # ]

I just about laughed up a lung
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 04:01 AM EDT
First at how both KDE and GNOME are described as "powerful and
intuitive". Let's make sure to get the meaningless marketdroid blurb in
there so as not to offend anyone, or for that matter, give them any useful
information to help them to make a choice.

Second, Linux zealots (hello, zealots!) seem to have a very curious description
of "flawless". Having two of your core apps just stop working after
an upgrade is not flawless. That would be cause for a recall or instant patch
if it happened in Microsoft Windows (with Media Player, for example), and it
might help to improve the quality of Linux distributions if you could actually
admit that instead of living in denial.

Linux is not ready for the desktop until it installs *genuinely* flawlessly on
contemporary stock hardware, every time, no exceptions, no caveats, no extra
downloads.

Until then, it will remain in the realm of the techie and the tinkerer. Please
have the courage to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hacking Opensuse
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 04:18 AM EDT
Jem Matzan has a description on how to add multimedia etc. here

[ Reply to This | # ]

Mandriva-2006 is also great
Authored by: CraigV on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 04:47 AM EDT
I think similar comments can be made about Mandriva-2006
which I am using and also use in linux classes that I
teach. The only difficulties come on machines with
brain-dead "winmodems" or "winprinters", buggy proprietary
video card drivers, or with very old hardware which
requires a custom install.

Well, also the improved security comes at a trade-off with
convenience. Certain cute conveniences open up security
holes and must be avoided or at least made optional with
defaults set to disable them.

It is actually amazing how well Linux installs and works
on modern machines with the distributions getting little,
if any, assistance from the manufacturers.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I love the dual boot suspend mode!
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 05:03 AM EDT
I travel a lot, and I carry (ok, lug ;-) an IBM T42 laptop with me that has been
dual booting Windows (W2K) and SuSE since SuSE 9.0.

SuSE 10 lays to bed the last gripe I had: I can now dual boot between suspended
sessions. When I'm done with Windows I tend to hibernate it as the corporate
standard has loaded up so many extras to keep the thing safe and supportable
that it takes ages to boot (I tend to give it a full restart every other day or
so to clear out any dead processes).

I could hibernate in SuSE 9.3, but the hibernation ('suspend') would be of the
machine rather than the session, powering it up would always put you back into
SuSE. That would be my personal preference, but it wasn't quite what I was
after ;-).

So, imagine my delight when I discovered that SuSE 10 does it just the way I
want it: I can suspend the Linux session, and on power up I can do the usual
selection between Windows or Linux, and either session gets fired up properly
and fast (word of advice: it comes back in power save mode because it
recognises time elapsed - the screen is thus black until you press a key).

I'm typing this in a hotel in Zurich, and connecting to the Internet was as easy
as 123: plug in, fill in subscriber session in Firefox and go. Nil problems.

All I'm waiting for is the OpenOffice patch to get it to version 2. I could
probably grab it off the Net but I prefer to keep it all clean SuSE, with the
exception of "etherape" which is probably the best quick-n-dirty
network traffic survey tool known to man but not a regular distro component
(Novell - hint!).

I'm in teh process of defining ops for a small setup - guess what OS we'll avoid
where possible?

Sorry if that wasn't really a taxing question <g>.

= Ch =

[ Reply to This | # ]

Question for SuSE-ites - Is it truly supported?
Authored by: gribnick on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 05:39 AM EDT
Just how well supported is SuSE Linux 10? I have been a SuSE user for, well,
more than a few years now, and had really come to appreciate the automatic
updates feature. Security fixes, bug fixes, updates, all were automatically and
seemlessly pulled down on to my system. But this is an area that seems to have
changed with the community release.

It seems SuSE is going the way of Redhat now with their prime focus going to
their subscription model (per seat pricing). If you look at the comparison of
the products, SuSE Linux is going to get minimal security fixes (perhaps only
those required to keep it from being infected from outside resources) and NO bug
fixes or other updates. That is reserved for the subscription Enterprise
editions.

Unless I am misunderstanding something, my current SuSE install is my last and I
will be turning to Debian instead which makes me sad as the previous SuSE
installs have been wonderful..

[ Reply to This | # ]

Ubuntu as well
Authored by: David Gerard on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 05:48 AM EDT
May I just give the obligatory plug to Ubuntu. As far as being an operating system that get out of my way and lets me get on with things, it's a winner. Stuff Just Works.

I actually far prefer FreeBSD to Linux, but Ubuntu is so very nicely done I use it far more.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Linux-Software Is Too Hard!
Authored by: phooka.de on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 06:43 AM EDT
It's not the OS itself or what's on the CDs that came as a package with the distro. It's what it's like to install stuff you found elsewhere:

Packages No, even APT-GET isn't going to change my mind, but my last Suse used RPM, which is hell in packages. Software installation should be as simple as this: Download the file, a small window pops up, you take the application icon and drag & drop it to you application folder. Uninstall? Take the application icon in the application folder and drag & drop it to the recycle pin.

Configuration Last time I used Suse, it hat YAST2 for some settings, the KDE controlcenter for others and then some config-files for most of the rest. All system settings belong into one dialog.

Get that fixed and I'll consider Linux on the desktop. But I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: Greebo on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 06:43 AM EDT
I've wanted to change to Linux for a while, and i did buy 9.3 when it came out
because it had 64 bit support. The only problem i had was it didn't recognise
my Speedtouch 330 USB ADSL Modem, so i couldn't surf. 9.3 is still installed,
but i have to use XP to surf because of this lack of support.

I contacted Suse and the support boards at the time, and was given various
solutions, all of which involved hacking files in obscure locations (I have very
limited Unix experience so this was a real adventure!), and in the end, after 2
weeks of trying i gave up.

Now, with these favourable reviews of Suse 10 i had hoped that these support
issues had been resolved, but after checking the Hardware Support list i see
that the Modem still isn't supported.

Suse 10 might be a big step forward in Desktop Computing, and it does look good,
but it's still a non starter for me until a can get my Modem working.

This isn't intended as a Troll. It's just my honest experience with Linux.

Greebo

---
PJ has permission to use my posts for commercial use.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SUSE 9.3 to 10.0
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 07:27 AM EDT
Hi,

I tried installing the SUSE 9.3 distro on an old Dell GX-1 last year and no
matter what I did, even with support, just could not get that thing to work.

10.0 nailed it, smoothly and easily. No bugaboos. No hangups. Any minor
problems I did encounter were easily remedied by changing shortcuts or default
programs. YAST is a dream now. I knew there must be a secret door in here
somewhere that leads to the easy way...and I finally found it.

Here is what I was looking for:

USB awareness
Automatic Update notifications
Easy updates (YAST is a blast)
MP3 awareness (some distributions avoided MP3 playing due to patent issues, I
love Amarok. When I play somafm.com, it notifies me of the new song title and
artist - something I struggled with on other distributions.)
Office 1.3 or better (got 2.0!)
A great PIM like Kontact or Evolution
Java and Flash

Everything worked. It was amazing. I had liked Red Hat due to it's simple
update utilities and excellent dependency resolution, plus it recognized USB
devices right off. I loved MEPIS for it's cool desktop, Evolution, and MP3
playing, but it didn't resolve dependencies well. Debian was nice, but couldn't
recognize USB devices when they were plugged in. But SUSE...it all works.

I've been using a Dell GX-1 with a Soundblaster Live audio card because I could
never get the stock audio card to be recognized on a GX-1. We are getting ready
to unload 30+ machines at work for an upgrade of all existing computers to new
computers with the latest Windows OS and office suite (yeah, I know it's still
Windows, but it'll still be better than the old way we were doing things).

We are going to raffle off the old computers to people who work there since many
of them can't afford to buy a computer. I'd like to be able to offer
installation of SUSE Linux for free to my friends at work. But with SUSE, they
won't need any help. So I'm looking forward to testing my linux installation
wtih the stock sound card just to see if it works right off.

I've never been more pleased with a linux distro than now. I really want to
play with it and get a hot new machine to use on a daily basis, running linux.
Definitely, Linux desktop has come of age.

At the same time, I'm saddened to see that Novell is planning large layoffs.
And I'm happy to see that they made their product a community product and that
the payoff, in such an incredibly short time is SUSE 10.0. It's 5 CDs worth of
software with heart. I highly recommend it to anyone who is thinking of toying
around with Linux.

When I get my new machine, I will purchase a retail copy to show my support and
let them know that I'm on the same page.

But for now, thank you, Novell.

Scott

[ Reply to This | # ]

Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: El_Heffe on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 07:48 AM EDT
" I couldn't help but notice in the movie that he didn't read the EULA,
though. Sigh. My work is not yet done."

Why is there is a EULA in the first place? You can't preach "fredoom"
and "open" and then require someone to agree to a EULA in order to
install the software. That's pure hypocricy.



---
My dog! It's full of rats! - 2001 a Dyslexic Odyssey.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • GPL - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 08:36 AM EDT
    • GPL - Authored by: Rob M on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 08:47 AM EDT
      • GPL - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:24 AM EDT
      • GPL - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 12:40 PM EDT
        • GPL - Authored by: John Hasler on Wednesday, October 26 2005 @ 12:27 PM EDT
  • Flash EULA - Authored by: SpaceLifeForm on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 02:16 PM EDT
Regarding the EULA
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 07:51 AM EDT
See this article on Security Focus about case where the FTC didn't like the EULA of a spyware company.

And a funny remark:
there was one dead giveaway to anyone who downloaded software from Odysseus Marketing, Inc., by considering the origin of the company name itself. As any follower of Homer can tell you, Odysseus (Ulysses) was the guy who came up with the idea of a particularly nasty contraption called the Trojan horse.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 07:55 AM EDT
SUSE 9.2 and RedHat FC4 are also very easy to install. I've installed them both
on "old" hardware (a 1998 vintage 233MHz Pentium II HP Pavillion, a
1999 vintage 250MHZ Cyrix Emachine, and a 2000 vintage 300MHz Pentium II IBM
Thinkpad 240) with no installation or video problems at all. The only thing
I've found is that the more RAM you have on the machine, the better. The
Thinkpad worked fine with 192MB, but the Pavillion seems much better with 384MB.
All in all, these two Linux distributions from the last twelve months have both
been VERY easy to install and very easy to live with afterwards. The struggles
which were typical six years ago with RH5.1 are (thank goodness) a thing of the
past.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Suse 10.0 and support/ ease of use
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 08:51 AM EDT
Ive been using Suse on and off since 9ish, dual booting and such. When 9.3 rolled around I decided to get rid of winblows entirely and have not regretted it at all.

Yes, there are some problems but it is always growing and improving. I am experiencing an issue right now that while, it is not particularly devasting it is a little annoying and hopefully will get resolved with a little research and work. Whats happening is that I have a 200GB external HDD and I cannot access it from the "my computer" applet, says that it isnt mounted, yet I can access it from the .media folder located in the primary/ root drive. Easy enough to work around I created a shortcut to the folder on the desktop.

The reason I brought it up is because in calling Novell for support (I bought the boxed retail edition) and they were both very nice and charming and supportive as well as being slightly unhelpful (more on that in a moment), however the 60 (or is it 90) day support is only good for actual installation issues. But... they were nice enough to look into it for me a little and let me know that this is a KDE/ Konqueror Issue as opposed to a Linux kernal one. And got me pointed to a KDE forum where I posted my problem and hopefully will get a response soon.

Point here is that While the Novell support itself is somewhat limited. There are so many other avenues of getting help when you need it. There are forums manned by so many helpfull people that the community is more like a family.

Im proud to belong to it and to be enjoying my SuSE 10.0

KDE Forum

Best SuSE Forum Ive found yet

Lets not forget the IRC channels devoted to Linux as well. There is tons of support/ advice and help available :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Don't under estimate your ability to make dumb mistakes.
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 08:57 AM EDT
Having installed Linux a number of times in a number of
different computers over a number of years I strongly urge
everybody who is new to Linus and who is planning on
installing Linus to first yank the hard drive off the
prospective system Linux is to be installed on, place it in
a very safe place, and replace it with another so that
when one screws up the system can be restored to it
original configuration. Note the use of 'when' not 'if' as
it is almost a certainty that a newbie will pull some of
the more dumb stunts that I have pulled on some of my least
productive days.

[ Reply to This | # ]

All documentation should be movies
Authored by: dsblank on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:04 AM EDT

The flash movie is called a "screencast" and is becoming a great tool in education. I have been using them for demonstrations and documentation. I have also been making them with 100% open source tools.

If interested, you can find some basic instructions here and some simple examples:

http://pyrorobotics.org/video/

Currently, you have to record the voice separately, but we hope to have that fixed soon. Highly recommended!

[ Reply to This | # ]

It is not all about installation
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:10 AM EDT

Not bashing or praising linux here.

It is just that I'm tired of linux reviews that are almost entirely focused on
the installation. There should be much more to it than that.

Can you hot swap a monitor? Will it play and record DVDs? Will it work with
winmodems. Does it have drivers for those combination fax/scanner/printer
devices? Does it have a full library of codecs? Can I go to comedycentral.com
and watch the daily show videos? After the initial installation, will new
hardware be detected and installed?

I'm not looking for answers to those questions, I'm just pointing out the sort
of things that should be addressed, and typically are not. Typical desktop linux
reviews focus on install, included applications, and eye candy - the least
important elements.

Although it will probably never gain widespread acceptance with typical users on
the desktop, my favorite distro is the 100mb debian sarge 3.1 download.
- small initial download.
- you do not have to download, install, uninstall much stuff you don't want.
- best package management in the business
- easiest upgrading in the business. Install it once, upgrade forever.
- committed to free
- flexible: use as super-stable server with no X11 running, or desktop will all
the very latest bells and whistles. It's all the same to debian.
- has that geeky feel

Just my $0.02.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SLICK?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:20 AM EDT
Ive already downloaded (and installed) SuSE 10 and Ive just found out about
SLICK. The apt-get and klik support make me want to use it over regular SuSE,
but I dont want to download the ISOs again (mostly because their servers have
melted).

Is there any way to convert the standard SuSE 10 to SLICK after installation?
(Id rather not install the missing stuff manually).

Thanks
The Grum

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • SLICK? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:35 AM EDT
    • SLICK? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:40 AM EDT
  • Its not slick, its SUPER! (The Grum) - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 11:31 AM EDT
SUSE workstations, Whitebox servers, MEPIS legacy boxes
Authored by: PSaltyDS on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:36 AM EDT
... and Knoppix for live CD (3.9) and DVD (4.0).

My experimnets, as a Windows weenie converting to Linux, have lead me to Whitebox 4 on the servers (Compaq/HP Proliant stuff) and SUSE 10/KDE/OOo 2.0 on the workstations, with MEPIS Lite on the older legacy boxes. This combo is working well for me right now.

Last night I finished an SUSE install on an XP Pro box with the entire 80GB HDD taken up by C: on NTFS. The resize of the NTFS partition failed and I didn't get the clear error message I would have liked, but no data loss occured and a quick google gave the answer: Always run CHKDSK /F from the Windows prompt and reboot to Windows so it can run the check before you run the SUSE install. After that it truly was flawless.

Both Whitebox and SUSE are supporting our QLogic QLA2340 HBAs and FibreChannel SAN perfectly too. Grub boot setup on SUSE for the dual boot was great and worked immediately. The Whitebox GRUB had to be tweaked manually - an educational step that wasn't too painfull and works fine now. Now I know Grub numbers both drives and partitions from zero - How 'bout 'dat? :-)

As for performance, one of our requirements is to keep .iso images of backup DVDs on our SAN. The Windows tools for creating .iso files take forever (hours) to do one DVD. The Whitebox 4 server did an image of a previously burned 3.5GB DVD+R in just under 10 minutes. My SUSE workstation did an .iso image to disk of a full Knoppix 3.9 CD in 73 seconds.

Everything we do at work seems to work better on Linux, though powers way over my paygrade dictate continued Microsoft lock-in for now. The only reason for any Windows boxes around me any more are some of the games my kids MUST play to sustain life. My multimedia mostly gets done on my Mac Mini at home, and soon may be on Ubuntu-PowerPC there also. Who knows?

As for legacy boxes, the stripped down but still functional MEPIS Lite does the trick for everything down to a Celeron 600 with 128MB RAM and a 4GB HDD. I'm not an expert by a long shot, but every one of these distros is FREE in every sense of the word and I have no problem finding the answers I need.

---

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insuficiently advanced." - Geek's Corrolary to Clarke's Law

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Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:49 AM EDT
Actually, the SUSE guys have announced (on the OpenSUSE
mailing list) that OOo 2.0 will be available as a YOU
update (for 10.0. and even for 9.3) next week or so. The
support model for SUSE has not
changed, security fixes and critical fixes will be
available for two years after the release of a particular
SUSE version, like during the past years. If in doubt,
read the FAQ at opensuse.org.

Cheers,

uk (a mostly happy SUSE user since 1998)

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Xandros is the best desktop Linux, IMHO
Authored by: ray08 on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:59 AM EDT
I installed Suse 10 using VMware 5.0. I didn't have much trouble at all with
the basic install and was surprised. All I had to do was set the default gateway
to 192.168.1.1 and I had internet and samba shares (using bridged network
adaptor with VMware). Of course, mp3, DVD and divx didn't work because of all of
the legal crap. This was easily the best Suse install I've done. It's almost as
good/easy as Xandros 3! It also finds and automatically mounts window's shares.
And I like the XFM way more than Konquerer.

I'm using Suse 10 under a virtual machine not only to evaluate it but also to
learn how to setup the samba server to be a PDC for the winxp boxes on my
network. It will also serve as my firewall, replacing the firewall in my Linksys
router. My goal is to setup a windows domain to enhance windows security using
ACL's for the workstations. And with a Linux box between the LAN and WAN, the
RIAA, MPAA and hackers are blocked from intrusion. I'm not sure yet, but it
looks like I can run Suse in a virtual machine as the firewall/server and never
have to move it to a physical machine, though that would leave me using winxp as
the host and that is a security issue all to itself.

---
Caldera is toast! And Groklaw is the toaster! (with toast level set to BURN)

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Fewer reboots installing Linux
Authored by: Silicon Whisper on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 10:09 AM EDT
It's too bad that Microsoft can't invent "minimizing reboots." When I
update my SuSE installations YaST downloads all the patches, installs them, and
then suggests I reboot. Simple.

WinXP is a slightly different beast. It has several critical patches that can
only be installed one at a time (with a reboot in between). After all the
"single" patches are installed you can go install the rest. Once
you've done this you've got the OS up to date. Then you have to go do a reboot
or two to get the patches to Office applied.

It can take hours to fully install (with patches) a WinXP box (starting from a
WinXPPro SP1 CD). Most of that time is using the Microsoft update tools to
install the various patches.

Are the WinXP Pro CD Images that have all the latest patches available for
download? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious by working off the SP1
media. I'd love if someone would point me to the "right" way to
install XP that doesn't need more than 2 reboots (to get to a fully patched
system) -- not a troll, I really would like to know!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Fly in the ointment
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 10:31 AM EDT
Sorry, guys, but I have to take the opposite side just for the sake of completeness. I want to say that I'm looking forward to the day that Linux can seemlessly replace Windows. But that day is not today.

Linux is still fighting the Microsoft influence over manufacturers. I have a one year old laptop. The laptop has a Broadcom wireless card, an ATI graphics card, and I have a Brother multifunctional networked printer. All three of these devices are not directly supported by any free distro. The wireless card is not supported at all (you may be able to get Broadcom cards working using the Windows drivers and ndiwrapper but even that is problematic), nor is the printer's multifunctions. I'm not saying this is the fault of Linux. It's not. It's the fault of the manufacturers being unwilling to support Linux drivers for their hardware. As good as OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, Fedora, or whoever, is, what we absolutely NEED is for IBM or Novell or even Redhat to work to get the rest of the hardware world to support Linux. Until that happens, Linux will not gain any significant presence on the desktop.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Let's not get too Carried Away
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 10:32 AM EDT
I've just returned from a course on Linux Administration where installation was
one of the exercises. I did Debian 3.1 and the others did Red Hat or Suse 10.0.
Yes, the install was a breeze in all cases. But as I commented to the
instructor, the course organisers had given us Linux compatible hardware; it
would have been a different story if we'd had the cheap modems, audio cards and
win-printers more typical of home set-ups - then the fun would have begun. Our
"corporate server" oriented course naturally involved no modems or
sound, and only a well-behaved Postscript printer.

Until hardware makers provide Linux driver modules as a matter of course, it
remains neccessary to choose kit for Linux with knowledge and care.

[ Reply to This | # ]

One thing I miss in SuSE
Authored by: lifewish on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 10:43 AM EDT
Remember back when SuSE used to have a liveCD as well as a liveDVD? That was so
nice. I think I still have one around here somewhere - it's actually what got me
hooked on Linux in the first place (although I currently use Debian).

This looks like the perfect distro for someone like my mum, who is just
technical enough to not be easily switchable from one operating system to
another. Sadly, I won't be easily able to demonstrate it to her, as her computer
and mine only have CD drives.

If there's anyone from the OpenSUSE project reading this, please please consider
reinstituting the LiveCD.

---
The greed of the few trumps the need of the many

[ Reply to This | # ]

A bit of perspective please - Microsoft Windows XP is hard to install for newbies too
Authored by: TiddlyPom on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 10:47 AM EDT
I must admit that I am getting a bit cheesed off with the constant FUD about Linux being hard to use by Windows users. What most people fail to take into consideration (especially with hardware support issues) is that most PCs come pre-installed with Windows.

It would be a whole different ball game if your average Joe had to install Windows XP from scratch on a bare-bones PC especially if that PC happened to be a laptop.

Take some of the most popular Linux distributions: Fedora Core, Open SuSE, Ubuntu, Mandriva and SimplyMEPIS

Yeah, yeah I've missed your favourite one out :(

Each of these has a reasonable installer that a moderately technically competent user can use - and by that I mean the same level of competence that would be needed to install Windows.

Installation of Windows XP is fairly straighforward - but that's just the beginning. To get up to the same level of usability as (say) SuSE Linux, I also need:

* Current Service Pack (SP2)
* An office suite (e.g. Microsoft Office Professional 2003)
* CD/DVD burning software (e.g. Nero Burning ROM)
* A virus scanner (e.g. Grisoft AVG) - not needed by Linux
* A firewall (e.g. Sygate Personal Firewall) - already included in Linux
* Spyware scanner (e.g. Lavasoft AdAware) - not needed by Linux
* Acrobat viewer

The list goes on and on and all of this is included in the standard Linux install.

If you want to do development then you need to install (say)

* Microsoft .NET Framework (Mono is included with SuSE - although .NET framework is included on Microsoft Server 2003)
* Visual Studio 2005 (MonoDevelop is included with SuSE)

and we haven't even considered cost issues which are into the $1000's at this point on the Windows PC.

The real area where Windows still scores (at the moment) is multimedia support (which is a grey legal area on Linux and needs to be clarified ASAP) although even here Windows is incapable of playing DVD disks without extra add-on software such as WinDVD.

The problem is that there isn't a level playing field. What we need is a good review by a mainstream PC magazine (read by the millions of Windows users out there) which shows that installation issues of Linux on PCs are basically FUD and that a PC running Linux is just as easy to use and configure as one running Windows (IMHO).

---
"There is no spoon?"
"Then you will see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."

[ Reply to This | # ]

Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: rongage on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 11:45 AM EDT

From the article:

I couldn't help but notice in the movie that he didn't read the EULA, though. Sigh. My work is not yet done.

I hate to break it to you, but people will continue to ignore these things until they 1) are wrote in English and 2)stop shouting at us (all caps).

Simply put, the all-caps sections are quite painful to read for those motivated to attempt to do so.

As for the English part: well, the language should be understandable by the general population, not just the lawyers. I remember in a journalism class I took (many years ago) that a typical target reader for the general US population has a 6th grade reading level. If you think a 6th grader could read - let alone understand - these EULAs, then I believe you are being very generous.

Besides, we all know how these professions (laywers, doctors) just LOVE to use common words with uncommon meanings just to help drive the need for their services.

---
Ron Gage - Linux Consultant
LPI1, MCP, A+, NET+
Pontiac, Michigan

[ Reply to This | # ]

Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: John Hasler on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 02:20 PM EDT
> I've been talking to Fernanda Weiden about documentation,
> and I think documentation should be movies, just like this
> one.

What an appalling notion.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • yuck - Authored by: Chani on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 04:11 PM EDT
    • yeah! - Authored by: dkpatrick on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 04:52 PM EDT
    • not yuck - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 05:00 PM EDT
      • true - Authored by: Chani on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 05:27 PM EDT
Group calendars?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 02:24 PM EDT
Can anyone suggest a group calendar tool that is reasonably easy to install on a
RedHat system? Web based would probably be OK, but support for Outlook would be
a plus.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Sourceforge! - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, October 26 2005 @ 12:08 PM EDT
EULA for Flash Player
Authored by: lisch on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 02:59 PM EDT
I couldn't help but notice in the movie that he didn't read the EULA, though. Sigh. My work is not yet done.
I agree. Start with the EULA for Flash Player, which you need to play this movie and many others, not to mention entire web sites. For those who don't want to wade through the mostly typical EULA, let me point out one particular clause (taken from Macromedia' s web site):
2. b. You agree that Macromedia may audit your use of the Software for compliance with these terms at any time, upon reasonable notice.
Do you really want to let Macromedia enter your home, examine all of your computers, just to "audit" your use of the Flash Player?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Dang
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 03:28 PM EDT
Just downloaded 9.3 I'll now have to do 10.0 at least I haden't burnt the CDs
yet :)

Tufty

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Come on, let's compare apples to apples
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 03:55 PM EDT
<tonguePlantedFirmlyInCheek>
With VMware it was nice and easy to capture this movie. I want Mad Penguin to
do the same install (read simple install) from scratch of Windows XP from CD.
Then you will see that Linux is not ready for prime time yet.
</tonguePlantedFirmlyInCheek>

Now that would show us something.... ;-)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 04:14 PM EDT
Personally, I prefer Libranet GNU/Linux over all other distributions.

krp

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SuSE 10.0 install demo is not complete.
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 05:07 PM EDT
I've been using SuSE Linux since 6.8, and it gets
better with every release.
Personally, I find it more
flexible and friendly than Windows.

I did
notice, though, that the movie only shows the
first half of the install,
skipping package selection and
userid/password setup; but they're no more
difficult than
the part that was shown. :-)

Cyllarus

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PJ a shill for SUSE? try ubuntu, no EULA!
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 06:22 PM EDT
Or you could use a totally free distro like Ubuntu or Debian.
no click-thru EULA required!

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Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: paf077 on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 09:09 PM EDT
PCLinuxOS, probably the best looking and compatible distro yet!! It's a Live-CD
but with an option to install on the desktop after booting the live version.
Most people willing to try a Linux Distro should get this one first!
It's created by Texstar and a few other developpers and has
possibly the best, friendliest and fastest support community
anywhere. Just have a look at it and you'll never go back :)

Paf.
First post and I've been a member almost since the beginning,never missed any
article. Keep Up the Great work PJ!!

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EULAs are lame
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25 2005 @ 11:56 PM EDT
"I couldn't help but notice in the movie that he didn't read the EULA,
though. Sigh. My work is not yet done."


Does anybody actually read those things?

But seriously, the EULA for SUSE is probably a lot less scary than the ones for,
for example, Microsoft Windows XP...

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • I do! - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, October 26 2005 @ 01:33 PM EDT
Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, October 26 2005 @ 09:24 AM EDT
I still think its too hard. I want to be able to install without any kind of
removable media on a machine that is currently running win2k.
I think Linux adoption would significantly speed up of this was possible.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Think Linux Is Too Hard? Take a Look at SUSE 10.0.... Broken
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, October 29 2005 @ 07:45 PM EDT
Downloaded twice, burned twice, tried to install on two different brand new
machines. No matter I do, it locks up early in the install process.

Color me not so impressed.

-- Charles

[ Reply to This | # ]

Linus on Virtual PC 7 Mac?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 03 2005 @ 09:54 AM EST
I couldn't get SUSE 10 to install. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

jahamasa

[ Reply to This | # ]

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