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Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 03:39 AM EDT

Journalists are a cynical bunch. They've seen it all, heard execs and politicians spin baloney, and endured endless press conferences where they've been told what turn out to be lies, so they can be forgiven for ending up Being From Missouri. The thing about journalists is, they do usually know what is really happening. They may not print what they know, or all they know, or they may feel compelled to slant it to suit their editors/owners. But they know.

So when the announcement was made at a press conference in the UK that Newham, a borough of London, had just decided not to go open source after all and instead to sign on with Microsoft because their software was cheaper than open source and more secure, the room spontaneously burst out laughing.

You can maybe buy what journalists print sometimes, but there is no amount of money that can make a cynical heart naive again.

Of course, the entire room knew that was ridiculous. And, while it is unfortunate that the hustle paid off, it is also encouraging news that this laughter means MS is near the very end of that particular rope. When journalists laugh at your FUD in public, the End is Near.

The Register has the very funny story, and more details here. Here's the part that isn't so amusing. They made their decision to go with Microsoft because of an "independent" study by Capgemini. Guess who paid them to do the study? Yes, boys and girls, future cynics of the world: The Register reports it was Microsoft.

The Newham Council will be using IE as their browser, they said, "because Microsoft is very serious about addressing security concerns". Does it get any better than this? The question isn't if they are serious. The question is, are they competent? No doubt the Council will be very busy soon, because here is a list of all the things Microsoft knows their new SP2 security fix breaks, or in Microspeak, "After you install Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2), some programs may seem not to work." Well, maybe not soon. Anyway, not Monday, as originally scheduled for automatic delivery. It seems corporate customers begged Microsoft for mercy. Here's information on blocking the automatic delivery, if you aren't so crazy about the idea of breaking some 50 applications at once on all your computers. What a dilemma. MS calls SP2 a "critical" must-have update. But it founders most everything else you like to use, unless you manually modify them. Gartner is advising to delay until you test all your applications:

"Analyst firm Gartner has estimated that a large company would have to test 1,000 IT systems as part of an upgrade to SP2.

"John Pescatore, vice-president of internet security at Gartner, estimated that a business with 100,000 staff would have 1,000 unique applications to test. 'This will require several man-months of testing,' he said."

But it's cheaper than switching to Linux. Right. Anyway, it's corporate customers that are getting the reprieve. Home customers still are scheduled for a Wednesday automatic rollout, unless they block it.

Of course, it's not a complete list, from all I hear:

"For some programs the list of instructions involves finding and opening ports used by programs to make sure they can communicate via the web.

"For average users, these instructions could prove formidably complicated."

I wonder if Capgemini figured in the costs of having to reconfigure all those computers? The costs of dealing with all the MS malware? Nah. Why ruin a rosy picture with reality? It only leads to cynicism.

Here's the funny part. The FUD is that GNU/Linux is too hard and so migration would prove expensive, due to a lack of appropriate computer skills and the need for training. But now, thanks to SP2, all those Microsoft users will have to figure out how to open/close ports and things you normally don't expect them to even notice, let alone fix. Maybe Microsoft has decided to go open source after all. Don't email me. It's a joke.

But I'm quite serious about the expense and the skill needed to deal with Microsoft's security update. Look at the instructions, or a small part of them, that Microsoft provides, then sit back, and laugh. These Microsoft customers will have to use a command line to fix their problems, and probably contact the vendor of any programs, like, um, Symantec, whose firewall now "may not seem to work" any more, natch, to find out what ports it needs. Then, if that doesn't work, and MS says it might not, they need to read the manual. Sounds like the old days of Linux to me. One thing I know for sure. When someone tells you to read the manual, it means you are faced with a measure of complexity. You can do it, but there is more than one step and you have to follow all the directions for it to work. Take a look, and I have emphasized the parts that made me laugh the hardest:

"To enable a program by using Windows Firewall, follow these steps:

"1. Click Start, click Run, type wscui.cpl in the Open box, and then click OK. . . . "Identifying and opening ports

"If your program still does not seem to work after you add the program to the list of exceptions, or if you cannot locate the program in step 4 of the previous section, you can open a port manually. Before you can add a port or ports manually, you have to identify the ports that are used by the program. A reliable method for identifying the ports that are used by the program is to contact the vendor. f you cannot do this, or if a list of ports that are used by the program is not available, you can use Netstat.exe to identify the ports that are used by the program.

"Identify ports by using Netstat.exe

"To use Netstate.exe to identify the ports that are used by a program, follow these steps:

"Start the program in question and try to use its network features. For a multimedia program, try to start an audio stream. For a Web server, start the service.

"Click Start, click Run, type cmd in the Open box, and then click OK.

"Obtain a list of all listening ports. To do this, type the following at a command prompt, and then press ENTER:

netstat -ano > netstat.txt

"Obtain the process identifiers for the processes that are running. Type the following command at the command prompt, and then press ENTER:

tasklist > tasklist.txt

"Note If the program in question is running as a service, add the /svc switch to list the services that are loaded in each process:

tasklist /svc > tasklist.txt
"Open Tasklist.txt and locate the program that you are troubleshooting. Note the process identifier for the process.

"Open Netstat.txt and note any entries that are associated with that process identifier. Also note the protocol that is used (TCP or UDP).

"The number of ports that the process uses may affect how this issue is resolved:

"If the process uses more than 1024 ports, the number of ports probably will not change.

"If the process uses less than 1024 ports, the program may be using a range of ports. Therefore, opening individual ports may not reliably resolve the issue.

Open ports manually by using Windows Firewall

If you cannot identify the ports that are used by the program, you can open a port manually. To identify the specific port number to open, contact the product vendor or see the product user documentation."

Read the manual? Isn't that hilarious? It goes on and on like this. Call me cynical, but I have the amusing picture in my mind of the Newham Council having to go down this list, thanks to the "independent" folks at Capgemini, who swore that it would be easier and hence cheaper to stay with Windows than to migrate to totally free software that does sometimes require you to use a command line.

How much does it take, I wonder, to get folks to produce a report like that? Evidently there is more than one form of cynicism. And where is it, this report? No trace of it on their website. Come on, Capgemini. We want to read it so we can laugh too.


  


Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD | 669 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
OT stuff here
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:44 AM EDT
first post

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:46 AM EDT
As a UK local govt. lawyer this depressed me but, unfortunately, didn't surprise
me.

I am surprised there wasn't a part where the Borough Solicitor said the GPL was
too tricky and so we thought that M$'s fantastic licence would be better.

Bah!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Please watch the hyperbole
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:46 AM EDT

>"the room spontaneously burst out laughing."

Where are you getting that from? The source says "It takes a lot to raise a laugh at an IT press gig, but this news tickled the spot for the journalists at today's press conference in London."

This is Groklaw, where, as I undersand it, we quote. We do not spin yarns. It's a good enough story without having to say that the fish was this big.

[ Reply to This | # ]

"free software [...] does sometimes require you to use a command line."
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:48 AM EDT
Tell my wife that. She's now at SuSE 9.1, having upgraded all the way from 7.3
without ever using a command line.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:48 AM EDT
Anyone seen any details of this Capgemini report? I would have thought that MS
would be more than eager to show off a well-researched paper that draws a
watertight conclusion that MS is cheaper than OSS.

Naich.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: jamesw on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:49 AM EDT
I can't really blame Newham. Apparently, they got a very good deal out of Microsoft, due to all the publicity. They got massively discounted MS software and "free" consultancy to help get it all together.

Basically, they were bought. They got the best deal available for their local tax payers.

So that's why it was cheaper for Newham.

The good side of the story is that a lot of organistations will think that an Open Source pilot study is a good way to screw concessions out of Microsoft. Some of them will decide to go live with it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Setting Limits
Authored by: Tomas on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:50 AM EDT
First off, even though I made my first USENET post back in June of 1982, in all
that time I've never actually used a Microsoft Windows machine, so I really
don't know all that much about them at first hand.

With THAT out of the way, I'd like to say that none of my machines will allow
anyone but me to determine what is loaded or running on them.

I don't need "permission" from my OS providers to "delay" an
update.

That's one of the things that has struck me about SP2.

Microsoft will *ALLOW* it's customers to TEMPORARILY delay the MANDATORY update?


Pfaugh!

---
Tom
Engineer (ret.)
We miss you, Moogy. Peace.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:51 AM EDT
"Let's recap: Newham had brought in open source consultancy netproject to
conduct a study of the feasibility of an open source deployment. It recommended
that the council deploy a mixture of open source and proprietary solutions,
including an upgrade of its MS Exchange server.

"Microsoft responded by commissioning Cap Gemini to audit Newham's IT, and
to run cost / benefit analyses of both the open source option, and the 100 per
cent Redmond solution. The CapGemini report recommended Microsoft, all the
way."


Because, you know, it's a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket.

Brilliant maneuver, Newham.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: brenda banks on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:51 AM EDT
/me pets her linux program and say thanks for the ease of linux
people couldnt keep windows running when ports were open and now they have to
open individual ports
if they have to go thru all that ,linux really does start looking easier to use
becaue of root vs user space
.i cant mess the whole thing up in user space.i feel for people that think there
is no other option for them.

---
br3n

irc.fdfnet.net #groklaw
Mike "Moogy" Tuxford, 1951-2004. Rest in peace.

[ Reply to This | # ]

the death of scientific enquiry
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:55 AM EDT
What fascinates me most - is how "scientific" research can come to the
conclusion that "MS is more secure than Linux" when it is known that
there are about 60 000 viruses for MS in comparison to around 60 for Linux - and
when not one single day seems to go by witout a knew virus and/or exploit for
Win2K is released on the Internet.

Just simply boggles the mind.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Trolls take care
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:07 AM EDT
PJ is obviously putting out troll bait.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Council going down the list
Authored by: JOff on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:11 AM EDT
Call me cynical, but I have the amusing picture in my mind of the Newham Council having to go down this list, thanks to the "independent" folks at Capgemini, who swore that it would be easier and hence cheaper to stay with Windows than to migrate to totally free software that does sometimes require you to use a command line.
Not really. They will say "Oh my, aren't we lucky that we just in time avoided to cange over to that other system that is even more complicated to maintain?" and will believe this. :-(

[ Reply to This | # ]

Can anybody provide a receipe for my grandma ?
Authored by: tglx on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:12 AM EDT
"To use Netstate.exe to identify the ports that are used by a program,
follow these steps:.....
Open Netstat.txt and note any entries that are associated with that process
identifier ...."

Please stop this, I'm suffering from gastrospasms caused by uncontrolled
laughing

[ Reply to This | # ]

How's this for a headline?
Authored by: Brian S. on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:17 AM EDT

"Service Pack 2 upgrade's a must, but let Microsoft work bugs out"

http://www.suntimes.com/output/worktech/cst-fin-andy17.html

I'll put it down to the writers sense of humour. ....or should I??

Brian S.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:18 AM EDT
One cannot hope to bribe nor twist
Thank God, the British journalist.
But seeing what the man will do
unbribed, there's no occasion to.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Source of quote - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:41 AM EDT
Another way of looking at SP2
Authored by: macrorodent on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:25 AM EDT

The fact that this upgrade breaks programs could also be interpreted as a sign that MS actually is getting a more serious about security this time.

Many Windows vulnerabilities have resulted from bad design decisions, that cannot be fixed without introducing incompatibilities. So any serious work on Windows security will inevitably cause breakage. The question to ask now is, have they gone far enough? I suspect not: a serious security overhaul would probably bring even more end-user problems than this. I predict that Windows users can expect more of this kind of fun in the future, as the changes in SP2 turn out to be inadequate.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: gbl on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:31 AM EDT
This could be fun.

MS has dropped its price to the point where the council would be fools not to
take the offer. There's probably a NDA covering the actual contract, but other
local councils in England will soon get to know the details via unofficial
routes and will use Newham figures as the _starting_ point when negotiating with
MS.

Then, while we all hope that the conversion works smoothly, there is always a
chance that there will be problems. Will MS be covering all unanticipated
costs, or will they be passed on to the council?

If the latter, there may be serious concequences as the councilers can be found
_personally_ liable for bad financial decisions.




---
If you love some code, set it free.

[ Reply to This | # ]

serious typos in manual
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:38 AM EDT
Good grief. They can't even get the simple critical
stuff right. This is awful. Never mind that the
users are being told to OPEN PORTS ON THEIR COMPUTERS

"If the process uses more than 1024 ports, the number of ports probably
will not change."

should be "...uses ports above 1024..."

"If the process uses less than 1024 ports, the program may be using a range
of ports. Therefore, opening individual ports may not reliably resolve the
issue.

should be "...uses ports below 1024..."

so,let's see. If I open a port between 3127 and 3198 then.....

"However, because the original MyDoom opens TCP
ports 3127 through 3198 and sets up a backdoor
to commandeer infected machines, security analysts
expect numerous mutants to appear in the coming weeks."


from http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3312111


you get the idea. Are they really telling users to manually
open ports???

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:39 AM EDT
Newham probably got a massive break in the Microsoft pricing coupled with tons
of "free" Microsoft consulting - assuming that Newham negotiated
themselves a good deal that is. Somehow, I don't expect that the cost of dealing
with the Microsoft vulnerabilities to worms, viruses, Trojans and other nasties
was ever factored in the CapGemini study. And IE's vulnerabilities to these plus
its vulnerability to browser hijack for example mean that at any moment any to
all client workstations may have to be cleaned up.

As Microsoft's resident used car salesman Ballmer used to say: aside from
robustness and security, there is little to choose between Microsoft and Open
Source. As for Newham: Microsoft is serious about lots of things that it doesn't
follow through on - that's why its product roadmaps are a study of flux in
motion. As for us, the Newham episode is the latest proof that Microsoft will
say anything and do anything to make a sale.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Security, after the fact
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:52 AM EDT
And here, ladies and gentlemen, we discover why bolting security on after the fact can be a serious PITA.

Things *break* when you impose new security restrictions on them.

For Linux, and the other Unix flavours, one tends to start with a secure default, then make things less secure until everything works as you require.

For Windows, Microsoft is trying to get from a world where 'everything works easily, but you have no security' to something approaching the Unix world.

The issue is that it is difficult (impossible?) to make that shift in a backwards compatible way.

For instance, I *know* that running with administrative priviledges on your normal account is a bad idea. On Linux, I don't do that, but on Windows, I do.

Why the difference?

On Linux, every piece of sofware assumes that the user is NOT running as administrator (or at least makes allowances for the possibility). So not running as root is easy - when you need to escalate your privileges to do something, it generally fits in with the workflow pretty easily.

Whereas on Windows, large chunks of the non-corporate software out there just plain doesn't work properly if you don't have admin privileges (even some of the supposedly corporate stuff struggles). After moving to XP, I tried to do the right thing - for about a week. After that, I got tired of figuring out "Oh, that totally obscure error dialog is a privileges problem. I'll just get out of the program, set 'Run as' to Administrator, then run it again, and see if it works properly". That completely destroys your workflow, and gets old, very, very fast.

And if there is an XP equivalent of 'su', I never found it.

Anyway, to get back closer to the point of the article, a lot of the 'breakages' reported in that MS support article are of things that will break when you install *any* firewall (like, say, ZoneAlarm). The difference seems to be that something like Zone Alarm intercepts the listen() request made by the server, and asks the user if they want to let that program act as a server. Say 'Yes', and all is good. The way I read the tech support article, the Windows firewall doesn't ask the question until someone actually tries to send data to that port.

Something we don't yet know is whether MS are using an MD5 hash to identify their 'exceptions' list, or just the process name. Will changing the process name of your virus to 'svchost' suffice to get your backdoor working again?

And of course, good old social engineering of viruses will be with us once again, based on the following snippet from the 'fix' for these problems:

Enable programs by using the Security Alert dialog box

1. In the Security Alert dialog box, click Unblock this program.

2. Click OK.

The fact that these compatibility problems exist is good, because they suggest that the upgraded ICF might actually be doing something useful. But they also serve to highlight the fact that Windows' historic ease of use, and its ongoing insecurity are far from being unrelated.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Corrections
Authored by: Dark on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:58 AM EDT
...all those Microsoft users will have to figure out how to close ports...
That can't be right. The whole problem is that SP2 closes ports that were open before, and users have to figure out how to open the ones they need.

f you cannot do this, ...
Typo, that sentence should start with "If".

[ Reply to This | # ]

Error?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 07:17 AM EDT
"The number of ports that the process uses may affect how this issue is
resolved:

"If the process uses more than 1024 ports, the number of ports probably
will not change.

"If the process uses less than 1024 ports, the program may be using a range
of ports. Therefore, opening individual ports may not reliably resolve the
issue.



I'm not a microsoft user except at work where I have to and even there I spend
most of my time ssh into various unix boxen.
But this quote doesn't make sense. It's written as though it is a quote - is it
really?



If the process uses more than 1024 ports - I think this should be "If the
process uses ports greater than 1024". Ditto for the less than sentence.

But even after that the sentences seem to be backwards. Generally ports <1024
are "priviledged" - in the unix world only root can open a listening
port below 1024 and so they tend to be fixed - 25=smtp (email) 22=ssh, 80=http
20,21=ftp etc while ports>1024 can be either fixed or varying. (passive ftp
being the obvious example where the port number changes all the time)

Tim.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 07:35 AM EDT
I actually feel genuinely sorry for Microsoft.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 07:36 AM EDT
There's a 'torrent' of a Knoppix DVD available at
http://www.knoppix.net/Knoppix-3.5-DVD-remaster.iso.torrent

There's a bunch of Knoppix CDs available at
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/knoppix/

All free, as in libre. And it works.

What happens if you 'slashdot' a torrent ?

[ Reply to This | # ]

This is good news!!!
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 07:39 AM EDT
appearantly they got a very good deal (in terms of money that is). MS felt it
had to offer a very good deal indeed to make sure they wouldn't switch to Linux.
If this happens more and more you can expect MS profits to fall sharply. Once
people understand they have alternatives MS's powerbase will dwindle and they
will have to compete just like everybody else.

The whole patent mess is gonna help to. Once people understand that new software
is only save untill MS decides to drag you into court, the people will not look
to favourably upon them

[ Reply to This | # ]

"Being from Missouri"?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 07:47 AM EDT
Could some kind soul explain this phrase for the non-USians among us? Somehow I
don't think Babelfish would help.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Forget Newham. There's a 3-year deal for the whole of UK Gov't coming up.
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:05 AM EDT
See this FT article (16 Aug 04) for details. It begins :
Microsoft is set to combat the threat of open source software to its position in the UK public sector by signing a new three-year deal with the government that offers greatly enhanced services and support to its basic software packages.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I cannot believe I am writing this
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:16 AM EDT
First, I do not believe Newham has made a good LONG-TERM decision. I hate and
mistrust Microsoft. That said, I am concerned by the lack of balance in this
article.

Sure, it is laughable to suggest that Microsoft's security is better than that
in Open Source alternatives. This is true in office products as well as the
operating system. However, Windows XP SP 2 is a step in the right direction.

Yes, some products will not work without tweaking the firewall. Corporations
will need to test. But, I have used XP SP 2 and there is not a huge migration
effort. Grandma will not be affected. Most products used by home users
(exception is multi user online games) have no problem. The issues that do
arise with corporate applications are easy for competent IT people to deal with.
Yes, there is a cost here in migrating to XP SP 2. It results from idiotic
decisions Microsoft made in the past. They either had to leave the status quo
(unacceptable in my view) or harden the system which inevitably will cause some
migration issues. Also, consider this: all the discussions about firewall
tweaking in SP 2 assume that no personal firewall has been used in the past.
This is often true, but is suicide with older Windows versions, especially on
open broadband connections (as increasingly used by home users). The built-in
firewall in SP 2 is EASIER to configure than personal firewalls used in the
past.

Next, on costs. I have no trouble believing that the SHORT-TERM costs of
migrating a Windows NT 4.0 shop to Windows 2003 Server and Windows XP will be
MUCH less than converting to Linux. That is partly a measure of Microsoft's
success in sabotaging standards. Costs of retraining a bunch of MSCEs and
turning them into competent Unix folks is also substantial. If Microsoft were
to be trusted, it might well be right for Newham to have made the decision they
did. Most people basically DO trust Microsoft. They think large companies are
reliable. Without my detailed knowledge of what Microsoft has done in the past,
I have a feeling I would be the same. Newham Council's decision is not totally
STUPID. It is only wrong because they will get hurt in the end by tying
themselves into a relationship with an unprincipled corporation.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Here's what they bought - more security issues today!
Authored by: Nick_UK on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:19 AM EDT
<a
href="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17911">http://www.theinqu
irer.net/?article=17911</a><br><br>

So I suppose we need a security update to SP2 now?

Nick

[ Reply to This | # ]

Alternate term for slahdotted
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:29 AM EDT
groklaw'ed.
The register site is now unreachable, and /. don't have story.
Outstanding!
:)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Anti-competitive behaviour and predatory pricing
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:32 AM EDT
I briefly discussed this issue with my local MP, Patricia Hewitt (Leicester
West, UK), who is Secretary of State for the Department of Trade and Industry
and a member of the Cabinet, a few months ago. She said that she would be
discussing whether there was an issue of anti-competitive behaviour and
predatory pricing going on. This issue had been brought to her attention by
Eddie Bleasdale (Netproject) at an Entrepreneurs seminar hosted by Gordon Brown
(UK Chancellor) at which Bill Gates was invited. I don't know whether she ever
followed this up but I've written to her to bring this to her attention, which
hopefully I'll follow up by a meeting soon.

There are Government initiatives to widen access to public tenders for SMEs in
the UK, yet this is a direct contradiction of that aim. This means that there
can never be a level playing field. I believe that Newham Council have not acted
in a particularly fair manner towards Netproject, and sets a dangerous precedent
in the UK.

I would be interested to hear people's views about anti-competitive and
predatory pricing rules in the UK (any UK lawyers specialising in this).

[ Reply to This | # ]

Why on earth did they bother...
Authored by: nvanevski on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:46 AM EDT
Just why did they bother to create this SP2 thing?
It is practically equivalent to unplugging your XP machine from the network,
which is much easier (and safer, considering it is Windows).

Q : Why did they called it Windows?
A : Because as soon as you open it, all the bugs get in!

(tribute to unknown author)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Capgemini - Microsoft Partner
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 09:12 AM EDT
From press release at : http://www.capgemini.com/news/2004/0719Microsoft.shtml
Capgemini and Microsoft Expand Global Alliance

REDMOND, Wash., and PARIS — July 19, 2004 —Capgemini and Microsoft Corp. today
announced several milestones in their seven-year alliance — including strong
momentum in U.S. healthcare and European public-sector markets — as well as a
new multimillion-dollar global agreement designed to extend the relationship
across industries worldwide. The companies have collaborated since 1997 to help
enterprise organizations take advantage of the latest Microsoft® technologies to
achieve competitive advantage, grow revenue and reduce costs.

The alliance has generated more than $2 billion in sales of Microsoft-based
solutions and services since its formation, and the companies have increased
alliance sales more than 47 percent since 2002.

“The steady growth of our alliance can be attributed to three factors,” said
Deanne Handron, senior vice president and global alliance leader at Capgemini.
“First, Microsoft provides industries with an integrated, comprehensive platform
for rapidly developing high-value business solutions. Second, Capgemini is
adopting the latest technology advancements from Microsoft as they emerge,
allowing us to deliver innovative solutions. And most important, both companies
rely on collaboration as a critical strategy to meet client needs, and we have
become experts in working together to help clients achieve measurably faster,
better and more sustainable results.”

New Global Agreement

Under the alliance agreement, Capgemini and Microsoft will invest more than $50
million to improve their ability to meet the needs of clients in a wide range of
industries worldwide. The investment is focused on accelerating the development
of new industry solutions based on the Microsoft Windows Server System™ and
Microsoft .NET software, and professional services from Capgemini.
Representative vertical industry solutions of the alliance include these:

Healthcare and public sector: Payer-provider connectivity, Health Insurance
Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) and revenue cycle management,
clinical portal forms, mobility, and collaborative content management
Energy, chemicals and utilities: Enterprise resource planning (ERP) application
replatforming, enterprise portals and field service mobility
Automotive, manufacturing and retail: ERP application replatforming, sales force
mobility, service parts management, channel customer profitability and extended
retail solutions
In addition, Capgemini and Microsoft are focusing on expanding the alliance
portfolio of cross-industry solutions in the areas of security, mobility, server
consolidation, migration of infrastructure and applications to the Windows®
platform, .NET Web services, enterprise application integration, and
outsourcing. The investment also is being used to provide technical and sales
training on new Microsoft products to Capgemini architects, developers and
consultants worldwide, and to expand and improve the companies’ joint marketing
and sales engagement.

“Capgemini has the deep industry and technical expertise required to help
enterprises take advantage of Microsoft technologies to advance their business
objectives,” said Simon Witts, corporate vice president of the Enterprise and
Partner Group at Microsoft. ”We are very excited to build on our long-term
success with Capgemini and take our alliance to the next level.”

Success in Healthcare, Public Sector

Capgemini and Microsoft have achieved strong momentum in the U.S. healthcare
market, enabling a wide range of organizations to take advantage of the Windows
Server System and .NET software to improve patient care, reduce administrative
costs and increase revenue opportunity.

At Swedish Hospital of Seattle, a clinical mobility and collaboration solution
built on the .NET Framework, Microsoft Office InfoPath™ 2003, BizTalk® Server
2004 and other Microsoft products will enable Swedish Hospital of Seattle to
efficiently provide high-quality care for more patients.
PACLAB Network Laboratories, also based in Washington, is using a .NET-based
portal to improve physicians’ access to patient lab reports and provide a
complete, unified view of a patient’s lab data.
Capgemini, Microsoft and Dell are collaborating on a $40 million initiative for
WellPoint Health Networks Inc. to bring new IT solutions to 19,000 physicians to
improve the quality, productivity and safety of the nation’s healthcare system.
The solutions include computerized physician order entry (CPOE) for
prescriptions and systems for paperless submission of claims.
The companies have achieved strong momentum in the public sector in Europe as
well, providing innovative solutions such as:

An integration solution for the U.K. Department of Education and Skills that
gives schools and teachers the flexibility to order just the information they
need and gain access to that information quickly. The solution is one of the
first live implementations of BizTalk Server 2004 and uses Web services to
provide links between an online ordering system and third-party fulfillment
company.
A server consolidation and migration to Windows Server™ 2003 and Exchange Server
2003 for the London borough of Croydon.
In addition, it was announced in December 2003 that Capgemini had won a
£3billion, 10-year deal with the United Kingdom’s Inland Revenue. This is one of
the largest deals in outsourcing history.
Capgemini Group has more than 4,000 professionals skilled in Microsoft
technologies and five Accelerated Delivery Centers dedicated to Microsoft
solutions. Capgemini experts are members of several Microsoft Partner Advisory
Councils, helping shape Microsoft product and development strategies in areas
such as mobility, communication and collaboration, and e?]business. Capgemini is
a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner in Integrated E-Business, Information Worker,
Business Intelligence and Advanced Infrastructure Solutions, and was named
Microsoft Global Services Partner of the Year for 2003.

About the Capgemini Group

Capgemini, one of the world’s foremost providers of Consulting, Technology and
Outsourcing services, has a unique way of working with its clients, which it
calls the Collaborative Business Experience. Through commitment to mutual
success and the achievement of tangible value, the company helps businesses
implement growth strategies, leverage technology, and thrive through the power
of collaboration. Capgemini employs approximately 55,000 people (as of January
1, 2004) and reported 2003 global revenues of 5.754 billion euros. More
information about individual service lines, offices and research is available at
http://www.capgemini.com/.

About Microsoft

Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq “MSFT”) is the worldwide leader in software,
services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full
potential.

#########

Microsoft, Windows Server System, Windows, InfoPath, BizTalk and Windows Server
are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corp. in the United
States and/or other countries.

The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the
trademarks of their respective owners.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: cheros on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 09:13 AM EDT
The most interesting lesson of the Newham affair is simply that it is ALWAYS
worth running a comparative study of Windows vs Linux, even when you've decided
from day one that you'll stick with Microsoft (leaving the wisdom of that
decision aside for a moment).

Without such a study there is no credible argument to force lower charges out of
Microsoft (remember to protect yourself against later clawback), but there is
naturally always the "risk" that it may emerge that Linux is indeed a
better choice, especially when TCO calculations include the cost of expected
downtime due to patches, virus updates and intervention for security or
infection reasons.

The very fact that such a comparative study should now be a default event (as
per motivation above) might prove to be far more trouble for to Microsoft than
losing this sale might have been. It will have a fairly direct impact on their
profit margin for large scale deployment.

= Ch =

[ Reply to This | # ]

Interesting
Authored by: edal on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 09:22 AM EDT
We changed over from a UNIX* / MS Windows Server system to AIX / Linux a couple
of years ago. Savings on licencing and support contract costs alone amount to
about two million dollars.

I think Cap Gemeni need to examine their figures again.

Ed Almos
Budapest, Hungary

* The nature of the UNIX systems in question is left as an exercise for the
reader.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Manuals
Authored by: Observer on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 09:37 AM EDT
> When someone tells you to read the manual, it means you are faced with a measure of complexity. You can do it, but there is more than one step and you have to follow all the directions for it to work.

Actually, my experience is that, if you are forced to go to the manual, then you not only have to figure out what steps to do, but which ones to skip because they no longer apply. Software manuals tend to go out of date quickly, and it isn't easy to keep them in sync with the actual software they are being packaged with. Hence, unless you are good at "winging it", they can often create more confusion rather than less.

---
The Observer

[ Reply to This | # ]

Potential Liability
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 10:17 AM EDT
Just idle speculation...but I wonder if Capgemini could be held liable if the
costs came out significantly higher than their study indicated? I'm sure they
would squeal that Newham changed the specs...usually the first line of cost
overrun defense...because it's almost inevitable that specs will change as
implementations move ahead. But if it's WAY off, which I'm guessing will be the
case, I wonder if Newham could go back at Capgemini for damages claiming they
fixed the numbers, which is almost a certainty.

Personally, I've never seen a MSFT implementation come in anywhere close to
budget. Got a customer going through that right now with Dell Professional
Services. They left out a 50K load balancer. Ouch, that's a big oversight. I
tell MSFT users to figure anywhere from 20-30% over. And sometimes they don't
count expenses like network antivirus costs because "you have to have that
anyway." Low-balling is a hard habit for them to break.

To be fair there are frequently overruns on OSS implementations, usually because
the customer added requirements after the contract. And the majority of time
there's some type of mixed OSS/proprietary environment going on so it's
sometimes hard to pin the tail on the guilty donkey, so to speak.

But I can safely say if Capgemini found in favor of an all MSFT system then they
had to seriously skew the numbers. At some point it becomes a distortion so
blatant one would have to wonder about liability issues.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Obvious solution is missing
Authored by: Jeetje on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 10:19 AM EDT
Quote from MS: After you install Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2), some
programs may seem not to work. By default, Windows Firewall is enabled and
blocks unsolicited connections to your computer. This article discusses how to
make an exception and enable a program to run by adding it to the list of
exceptions. This procedure permits the program to work as it did before the
service pack was installed.

IMHO, the obvious solution is missing:
1) Install SP2,
2) Turn off Windows Firewall,
3) Keep using your dedicated personal firewall solution that has kept you safe
for so many years up until now.

For step 2, you only have to remove 1 (!) checkmark, instead of going through
the thing-a-magic gizmo commandline stuff MS would like you to go through.

Now be honest, do you buy a car alarm manufactured by Daimler Chrysler? Or a
home security system manufactured by a building contractor?

In the last couple of weeks, a number of statements by a number of people far
smarter than I am have been put up on Groklaw, all pointing in one direction:
Competition is good, because it keeps everybody pushing for better quality.

So, are you going to support the extended grip MS exorts over your PC, and
thereby in the end making it easy for malware to break and enter?

Thought so.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Nick Bridge on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 11:04 AM EDT
Does Microsoft have any hints on how to identify which program may need to be
added to the list? Or which ports that show up in netstat should be added?

A beginner wont know port 80 from port 1234...

They could unintentionally open the very port that malware is using!

Go Microsoft!

PS Quote me: I have decided to switch to Windows with IE instead of the more
secure combination of Linux with Mozilla because Microsoft have made a
commitment to security.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: James on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 11:07 AM EDT
I really REALLY hate to be devils advocate... but these apps are not broken by
SP2 anymore than any app would be by the insertion of a firewall. Broken is
when you install Windows 2k3 and things do not run anymore. These apps just
need holes opened for them to work, maybe.

For the record, I run OpenBSD at home for my firewall, and I'm currently working
on an OSS project to make it remotely graphically/manageable :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: James on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 11:09 AM EDT
so they can be forgiven for ending up Being From Missouri
And just what is wrong about being from MO??? ;)

Go Blues,Cards,Rams!!!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 11:21 AM EDT

A friend of mine used to work at Newham Council. I asked him for his take on the situation and he got back to me this morning. Here is his reply, quoted in full, anonymously for obvious reasons ...

This comes as no big surprise to anyone. There was never any prospect of Newham dumping Micro$oft, certainly that was the story I was receiving from inside the department. There were very real fears internally that they would not be able to support an OSS solution because, basically, most of their support staff are crap.

A few years back someone (Steele probably) had the bright idea of creating a support company called "New Deal" (part of the govt's New Deal initiative), which hired a bunch of kids and called them systems administrators. In one fell swoop they managed to slash their support costs because they weren't paying the kids anything. Unfortunately, it also meant that they had no experienced sysadmins and nothing worked any longer. Still, the bottom-line looked good and Newham got lots of positive press for their bold (foolhardy) initiative.

If Micro$oft hadn't bitten it would have been really funny because then Newham would have been forced to admit that they didn't have any staff that could implement a non-M$ solution.

So now they are locked in for another 10 years of misery. Ha, idiots!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Save the High Fives (The Right Thing)
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 11:25 AM EDT
Save the high fives. Microsoft is (at last), years after the start of their big (so-called) security initiative, biting the bullet and doing the Right Thing.

Doing the Right Thing is always better than doing the Wrong Thing. So, however much this makes a mockery of some of Microsoft's marketing b. s., in the long run this only makes them more dangerous, and will delay world domination (by at least a few weeks).

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 11:32 AM EDT
Fergiv an ignorant ferriner again, but "Being from Missouri" means
what???

Hooya in NY, but from GB.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Reporters
Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 12:07 PM EDT
PJ,

I agree with you that most reporters are cynical.

There we part company. My experiance is that reporters are often lazy and use
deadlines as an excuse for sloppieness. I once read (and perhaps someone can
find the source, a quick google didn't turn it up) that 'Whenever I read a
report on something I have significant knowledge of, the reporter invariabley
get significant things wrong.' That has been my universal experiance.


---
Rsteinmetz

"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Reporters - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT
  • Alternatively - Authored by: dgh on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:21 PM EDT
Hint to PJ: It's Bad When You Start Sounding Like SCO
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 12:08 PM EDT
PJ,

Look, I hate Microsoft as much as you, if not more, but I am tired of reading
your tirades about Microsoft/Sun/The World versus Linux. Give it a rest. Groklaw
use to be about the law and GNU/Linux. Stop using your newfound popularity for
use as a bully-pulpit to push across your agenda. You are starting to sound as
bad as SCO and Enderle.

I use Groklaw as a source for information regarding the SCO lawsuits, but
nothing else. There is no community here except the plain vanilla "LINUX
Rulez" crowd, hence why I am posting this anonymous.

You can explain the lawyerly proceedings because you have first hand
knowledge/experience of how the law works where as most of us techies don't. But
when you digress into simple and overly basic diatribes against anything
anti-Linux, it just shows how naive you are when it comes to the real tech
world.

There are so many reasons and factors why a company/entity chooses to
standardize on a single OS versus something else. TCO is just one. If the
applications that you use day in and day out only support IE/WIN32 then you have
to use those products. Plain and simple.

These are decisions we in IT make every day and they are not simple black and
white decisions. Most of the time, the users we support (and the reason we have
jobs) make the decisions based on their comfort level with an application or OS.
If they are more familiar with a certain product, then they'll ask to use that
product.

After Linux/IBM/Novell kick SCO's butt in court, I will no longer come to
Groklaw and I imagine that quite a few people will also not return or have
already left. So step on your soap box PJ, while you can, because it won't last
when all that comes out is tripe about something you know nothing about.

[ Reply to This | # ]

FUD v Marketing Hype
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 12:23 PM EDT
Microsoft is touting their products. I believe that they believe their product is better in at least some aspects. I believe that they believe that they have at least some supporting evidence (however weak) for their contentions. As far as that part goes, that seems to me more like marketing than FUDing.

Customers and potential customers are not so ill-informed and clueless (or especially in the case of corporate customers, it's their own fault if they are), as to not be able to evaluate marketing messages, and make their own decisions based on their own knowledge, their own experience, and a comparison with other vendors.

Side bar note: An example of customers/press using their critical skills

Here is a comparison, that I believe sheds some light on this type of battle:

Some years back, MS was pushing LAN Manager, on the basis that it used protected mode and according to Microsoft's theory should be more stable than Netware which didn't. This got some attention in the press, as it sounds like good computer science (if you're not in protected mode, one bad app can crash all the others).

However customers who had experience of Netware (or who talked to other customers who did), knew Netware was incredibly stable, especially by the standards of the time. So it was a hard one for MS to get traction on anyway (kinding of a claim waiting to be shot away).

What's more Novell's engineers found a way to easily remotely crash a LAN Manager server, from any workstation on the network. And not just any crash, but a crash so severe that LAN Manager needed to be reinstalled. Subsequently when MS when on roadshows touting their alleged stability to customers and the press, the recipients of the demos, said "what about this", and started crashing MS's demo system in this way.


Anyway the point, is normal marketing, and even borderline FUD (as in my sidebar example), works or doesn't work, and if customer/press can see the holes, it doesn't.

Real FUD seems to be quite different from marketing and borderline FUD. I would say it includes, among other things:

(a) Making false claims about your competitor's products (e.g. falsely claiming it violates intellectual property, falsely claiming it does or doesn't do)

(b) Making false claims about your own future intentions (e.g. preannouncing something you never intend to ship to undermine a competitors sales)

(c) Making true claims about your own future intentions (e.g. preannouncing something you do intend to ship, which as a consequence undermines a competitors sales)


IANAL but I believe, FUD type (a) generally falls under the Lanham Act, and FUD type (b) can fall under unfair competition laws. (I don't think FUD type (c) is illegal - even if perhaps ethically questionable in some respects - if you really do intend to ship something, you're also arguably just informing customers of your future intentions)


Anyway my point is, I think,

(1) It's wrong to confuse all marketing hype with FUD. Without pointing to any particular posts, etc., I think that FUD is a particular subset of marketing hype (not all marketing hype is FUD, but some marketing hype is FUD)

(2) The worse kind of FUD is that which is based on falsity. IMHO there are laws which deal with much of this

(3) Whether FUD or marketing hype, it simply doesn't work, if it's not grounded in something in the customers' perceived reality

[ Reply to This | # ]

Customer Control not Service Pack
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 12:28 PM EDT
MS service packs are not bug fixing, it's customer control.
If you really wanted to fix bugs you would issue releases that ONLY fixed bugs
and did NOT change features or functionality.

Microsoft has no interest in servicing customers, unless it can be used to get
more control. It's like a parent trying to hold on to the child sitting in it's
lap. The more you try to prevent them from leaving the more they try go get
away.

Service packs became their ticket to do the same with all the poor saps now
stuck with windows.

If the intention was to service the customers they would have resolved these
issues long ago. But as we know Bill must have realized that for him the only
way to world domination was by hook and crook, not by service.

One would at least have bug fixes, security fixes and feature updates and
modifications.

That way you can choose how to handle your computer(s). If you like the
modifications - then do it.

Of course who created this monster? It wasn't really microsloft. It was all the
the ones who made the decision to follow his lead. All the ones who did not send
in complaints, all the ones who put the dollars down.

It's kind of like election time. Everyone will say how bad someone is but they
will not even bother to vote.

Now I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I wanted to point out the obvious...

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Huh? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:03 PM EDT
    • Huh? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:42 PM EDT
      • Huh? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, August 19 2004 @ 11:36 PM EDT
        • Huh? - Authored by: alisonken1 on Friday, August 27 2004 @ 12:03 AM EDT
Why upgrading to SP2 would not be WISE
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 12:37 PM EDT
Noticing all those replys telling that just the firewall would break things and
how easy it could be fixed i could not help but shake my head.

SP2 will break alot of apps, both commercial and created in house not only
because of it's new firewall. It also plugs a good deal of potential security
flaws in the OS and IE. It will also remove or disable a good deal of currently
used "features". And it is there that problems begin. What MS touted
as features are now security flaws and will be removed or plugged or whatever.
These features though are also used by various applications both commercial and
built in house. These applications need extensive testing and/or modification
before they will be able to be used with SP2. If SP2 will be automatically
installed these apps will immediately break or turn into unstable apps.

Consider banks and insurance companies for instance. They mostly use
applications that are developed in house. These need to be as stable as they can
be (considering the OS they run on). Automatic installation of SP2 will
inevitably break these applications and will introduce serious problems if they
are not addressed adequately. Simply opening ports on a firewall will not solve
this. Rewriting big portions of code will be the only way to solve these
problems.

So the firewall is the least of all concerns for breaking applications. It is
all those other fixes which will cause significant problems.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: bsaxberg on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 12:57 PM EDT
I always thought it was Misery... :-D

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 02:18 PM EDT
Dit the journalist really started to laughter ? Are is that real? Are there any
independent confirmations of this?

[ Reply to This | # ]

What State is Newham in?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 02:26 PM EDT
For those who can find Afghanistan, Iraq, and even Missouri on the map, here is
a link to Newham:

http://www.newham.gov.uk

Alan(UK)

[ Reply to This | # ]

FUD from Groklaw?
Authored by: GLJason on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 02:28 PM EDT
Here's the funny part. The FUD is that GNU/Linux is too hard and so migration would prove expensive, due to a lack of appropriate computer skills and the need for training. But now, thanks to SP2, all those Microsoft users will have to figure out how to open/close ports and things you normally don't expect them to even notice, let alone fix. Maybe Microsoft has decided to go open source after all. Don't email me. It's a joke.

The whole "problem" with SP2 is that it turns on the built-in Windows firewall. Some programs will be affected, but an alert advisor (ala ZoneAlarm) will pop up and let them continue. If they accidentally hit "don't let this program run", then they have to go in and open the ports. This isn't a bug or problem with SP2 as much as it's a problem with Windows developers getting too used to having an open system for their programs to run on. Most of these applications would would have the same problem if they were behind a restrictive hardware firewall. For instance, the problem with AutoCad is that you need to open up port 21 on the server with SP2 enabled to allow the clients to browse projects via FTP.

Hopefully this will keep a lot of naive Windows users from getting own3d and becoming unwilling spammers.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Newham has their work cut out for them
Authored by: darkonc on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 02:54 PM EDT
Call me cynical, but I have the amusing picture in my mind of the Newham Council having to go down this list, thanks to the "independent" folks at Capgemini,

Now you know why MS waited until yesterday to release the list of 50 most common broken applications... If Newham saw that list, they might have re-opened negotiataion.

Now that they've signed on the dotted line (for the next decade) it's too late to go back! Bwahahahahahaah!

---
Powerful, committed communication. Touching the jewel within each person and bringing it to life..

[ Reply to This | # ]

A disastrous misreading of Ghandi
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 03:52 PM EDT
Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
  1. First they laugh at you.
  2. Then they fight you.
  3. ?????
  4. Profit!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Exit costs not migration costs.
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:06 PM EDT
Aren't we meant to worry about TCO these days?

Part of the cost of owning a product is how much it costs to chuck it out when
you no need to get rid of it.

When you buy a software product, it's pretty much inevitable that you're going
to replace it sooner or later. So the cost of migrating off your current heap
of dung was incurred when you bought that dung pile, even though you don't have
to fork out the cash for years.

And if a vendors last product had exhorbitent hidden disposal costs, then you
should look ask serious questions about what hidden disposal costs their next
product has too.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Its microsofts fault that swapping to OSS is expensive.
Authored by: Franki on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:12 PM EDT
Think about it, MS purposely sets out to make swapping to OSS (or anything
else) hard, but swapping from MS to any UNIX/LINUX variant as hard as possible..
proprietry file/db/filesystem formats, non standard protocols, you name it..
they have made the effort to make it seem much harder to swap from MS rather
then too it. (Its called vendor lockin guys, and its not a good thing.. [thats
my message to Newham])

I'd be very interested if Newham are still as "happy" after they have
rolled out Longhorn in 2006 (real world 2008), if they think XP SP2 is hard to
roll out, wait till they get a load of longhorn.)

With regards to the latest MS funded "truth", I've yet to see any of
these reports list as expenses of MS, testing patches and service packs before
deploying... or fixing virus infestations, or software like anti-virus apps and
the other stuff that no smart MS user (is there such a thing?) would be
without.

I've also noticed that when talking about security patches, MS funded reports
make the claim that OSS has been releasing more patches then MS of late.. but
they don't mention that Ms often combines patches, whereas OSS generally don't.
They also fail to mention that the comparision on patches isnt' fair anyway
because they are comparing windows with its dozen or so apps, with Linux distros
with 3000+ packages available.

Not exactly a fair comparision is it?

I'd actually be interested in reading a "fair" study.. one done by an
independent university somewhere..

Find two companies that are the same size.. and follow them around for a whole
year, while one swaps to OSS, and the other to XP/2003, take ALL expenses into
account, including antivirus, firewalling and all the other stuff that windows
needs. (and anything linux needs that it doesnt' come with as well.)

Then with all expenses on the table, and maybe some real world performance
figures, we'd finially have some actual "facts" as opposed to MS
funded "facts", which are not really facts at all.


regards

Franki

---
Is M$ behind Linux attacks?
http://htmlfixit.com/index.php?p=86

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Enderle speaks - again!
Authored by: geoff lane on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:14 PM EDT
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/35891.html

Last week he was challenged to appear on The Linux Show (a number of SCO execs
have been on); he's been challenged here
but refuses to have a direct dialog; Job Barr has challenged him to justify his
views elsewhere.

Yet Enderle will not face his critics, nor those whose views differ radically
from his. But he will write articles and deny those he mentions the chance to
offer rebuttals or corrections.

BTW, Ken Browns Samizdat has still not been published.
Wonder why?


---
Ten Truths Of Linux -- http://zoe.mcc.ac.uk/tentruths.html

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Security...
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:25 PM EDT
"Open source vendors are currently experiencing more vulnerabilities and
receiving more security advisories than Microsoft. In addition, Microsoft has
made a substantial investment in further improving security levels with its
Trustworth Computing initiative."

Hmm.. So, the fewer vunerabilities you admit to, the more secure the software
must be, right? I've never liked the "Linux is more secure than
Windows" argument, but the opposite is equally foolish. Whether a
particular OS is secure or not depends largely on UNDISCOVERED vunerabilities.
It doesn't matter if Apache was vunerable yesterday...it matters if it's going
to be vunerable tomorrow.

To decide which OS is more secure, the pundits cite REPORTED vunerabilities.
Obviously there are more reported vunerabilities in free software because the
free software bug tracking systems are wide open for anyone to see. Apache
doesn't have the option of ignoring trivial security bugs because everyone can
see exactly what they are. Microsoft can ignore minor security problems and
roll the fix in when a major problem comes up. That's not to say that Microsoft
has more vunerabilites, and that they're being hidden...it's just not possible
to make a meaningful comparisons.

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PJ is OT...
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 04:56 PM EDT
While I don't agree with everything the poster mentions, I do feel that this
thread is an OT in it's entirety. PJ mentions in another <a
href="http://
www.groklaw.net/article.php?
story=20040814095900468&query=purpose+groklaw">story
posted</a>
that this project (Groklaw) exists to be... "as complete a record as I can
make
it of this historic case, with all significant details recorded for
history."--it is
not a discussion board, or a blog, or for entertainment.
<p>
Yet that seems to be exactly what this current story is about... something to
generate discussion, and is filled with the kind of personal perspective that
one expects of a blog, and of course it is entertaining...however, as everyone
keeps mentioning, PJ can pretty much do as she pleases, it is her site. So even

though this is OT-- in my opinion-- PJ posted it for reasons she sees fit. In
the end though, it doesn't gell with what she is saying elsewhere.
<p>
Which is OK, PJ is human (or so I assume--with the way she posts updates at
all hours, I wonder 8^) ). So a minor discrepancy between what she says here
or there, is nothing compared to the outright lies of certain CEOs. Kind of like

TV sitcom writers, when you write a lot, it is hard not to come upon limits/
contradictions with what you wrote before. Perhaps PJ will further define her
purpose for the site or explain the nuance of what she said and what she
meant. Perhaps not...
<p>
I did feel this story, while interesting, has little to do with the
"purpose" of
this
site. And I too feel that after the fiaSCO is done with there may not be much
reason to visit, but then perhaps the entertainment factor (disecting
CEO statements with the facts) will continue to draw. We know there will be
no end of CEOs who make such gaffes. Good thing PJ is not dependent on
ads--she does not have to worry about maintaining anything--if groklaw
fades--it fades. It is serving a purpose, but I do get confused what that
purpose is with stories like this.

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Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:12 PM EDT
It seems like reporting that biased report agains LINUX does not stop them from using 'htdig' search engine under GPL license:

http://www.capgemini.com/htdig/

Hmm, I guess, GPL software is good for something after all. :-)

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Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:18 PM EDT
The city of San Jose got Cisco to help them design their IT infrastructure.
Guess what? All their router equipments uses Cisco and nothing else. Oh, and the
contract is worth millions! You've got to love those people who asked foxes to
help look after their chickens.

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68% Cheaper... not 68% less expensive
Authored by: Eeyore on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:25 PM EDT
It's all in your choice of words ;)

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Switching to Linux gradually
Authored by: Thomas Frayne on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:34 PM EDT
Those corporations that are afraid of installing SP2, and are also afraid of a
full switch to Linux might consider the following procedure.

1. Dedicate 4 test machines (SP2, SP2+Mozilla+OpenOffice, SP2 server, Linux),
and run a race to see which is running well first.

2. On each of the desktop machines, whenever an application breaks, try running
it as a client to a running Windows server. If a Windows application breaks,
try running a multi-platform open source or Linux equivalent.

3. Count the time needed to learn new features, the time to fix problems, and
the time to reboot the machine. Record these times separately, since some are
once only, and some repeat.

4. Any application that can't be run or replaced in a reasonable time should be
skipped, and put on a breakage list. Applications not tested should be on a
separate list.

5. At the end of the test, record which procedure won, including mixed
procedures, and decide which approach is best for your rollout.

6. Consider: if you have to do this for SP2, what will you have to do for the
next release of Windows.

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Secure enough? Not if IE or Outlook still work!
Authored by: Eeyore on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 05:41 PM EDT
Come on folks, there is NO way M$ improved it's security too much if IE and
Outlook still work without being patched. Think about it, how many critical
security advisories have you seen for AutoCAD or ARCserve.

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You want the truth?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:05 PM EDT
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! (apologies to Jack Nicholson)

Repeat after me "This is somebody's blog. They can write whatever they
like, including combinations of opinion and fact. I can chose to stop reading.
I can even chose to express my own opinions in my own blog if I decide to get
off my backside and do so."

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    IBM-225.pdf has been transcribed...
    Authored by: JeR on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:21 PM EDT

    Here is

    DEFENDANT/COUNTERCLAIM PLAINTIFF IBM’S MOTION FOR PARTIAL SUMMARY JUDGMENT ON BREACH OF CONTRACT CLAIMS

    as text/HTML, as I transcribed it from IBM-225.pdf.

    ---non-breaking space

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    Capgemini running Linux with apache!!!
    Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 07:03 PM EDT
    Check out http://uptime.netcraft.com/ and you'll see that they are running linux
    and apache.

    http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capgemini.com

    Guess they didn't advertise that little fact when presenting their
    "findings".

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    Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
    Authored by: rben13 on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 08:12 PM EDT

    What I can't believe is that MS couldn't be bothered to write a simple program that would show you which application is using which port at any given time and wrap it up with a nice pretty GUI. Isn't that what they are supposed to be good at?

    I predict a strong market for some shareware program that will perform this function....hmmm.... Maybe I should get to work on that....

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    Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
    Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 10:27 PM EDT
    I noticed that you call Linux by the name GNU/Linux. I
    doubt if this is justified. GNU programs are no longer a
    majority of programs in any distribution. On my desktop
    computer, more installed rpm's have the string
    "sourceforge" in the URL field than have the string "gnu".
    Should I call my system Sourceforge/Linux?

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    Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
    Authored by: irieiam on Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 11:53 PM EDT
    While looking for a trace of this report on their site, I did find mention of
    Capgemini and Microsoft just the same. But it's more about how they help each
    other make money...Wait, isn't this the same theme?

    http://www.capgemini.com/news/2004/0719Microsoft.shtml

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    OT - Check out User Friendly for 8/17/2004
    Authored by: Totosplatz on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 02:19 AM EDT

    Right on!

    It's here.

    ---
    All the best to one and all.

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    I rename this thread, the Astroturf Troll Bowl...
    Authored by: cfitch on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 02:49 AM EDT
    Reading a number of these comments, it's obvious that the anti-Groklaw Astroturf
    Troll campaign is starting up with a bang.

    Unfortunately, the Astroturfers/Trolls were either trained from the same source
    or read the same "Slashdot Troll Howto" because they all provide the
    same old tired arguments in various forms.

    One particularly amusing exchange where a troll made a statement to the effect
    that he was tired of Groklaw turning into a big Linux FUD machine and compared
    PJ's commentary to Rob Enderle's speech. This troll continued by stating that he
    only wants Groklaw to improve and he does not want poor fragile PJ to sink to
    Enderle's level.

    Of course one of the many astute Groklaw posters pointed out all the flaws in
    his trollish post and called him out to make his post backed with facts and
    specific examples.

    The trollish response? Instead of actually providing a valid answer, he used
    such lovely phrases as pigheaded ignorance and 7800 groupies and finished by
    refering to everyone as "Lusers"

    He's a "Real Winner" if I ever saw one but a very poor troll. But what
    do you expect from a small mind?

    Oh well, it's been an amusing thread, and thanks to some of the trolls, we get
    to laugh just as much as though journalists did.

    Keep up the good work PJ! I support your decision to run articles like these.
    They fit right in with finding the Truth!

    Just my 2 cents...

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    Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
    Authored by: Fourmyle on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 03:31 AM EDT
    IMHO science is a systematic way of avoiding fooling yourself.
    Open discussion, peer review, reproducable data, all play a major roll in
    developing confidence in a theory, but at the least objective data collection
    with full disclosure of methods and sources is mandatory. There is art involved
    too , in the creation of new theories that can then be tested, and phylosophy,
    as you need to remain detached enough to throw out your own theories when they
    don't pan out.
    Paid partisan studies with no oversite are at best propaganda , at worst fraud.
    ( soap box crushed , I'm outa here )

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    OT. Are there more or less Anon posters these days?
    Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 04:34 AM EDT
    I suppose only PJ would know for sure, but what is the general opinion?

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    Well, well, well. An accurate summary by an analyst.
    Authored by: Brian S. on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 05:16 AM EDT
    http://www.it-director.com/article.php?articleid=12163

    I got up this morning in a sunny mood. A quick glance at the headlines etc.

    This article by Robin Bloor is almost the best summary I've seen in the
    traditional tech press.

    And

    I've picked up from Yahoo SCOX board that Dion Cornett has raised his SCOX
    rating from "underperform" to "market perform". He must
    know something. Something has happened to change his mind in public.

    Excepting SCOG has surprise card ( a line of code ha! ha!).

    I'm sorry but I am going to tempt fate. I've had several days to think about
    this and read peoples ideas. I cannot see where SCOX can go.

    I think they have little choice but to settle with IBM who in turn will be more
    interested in resolving SYSV ownership than money. IBM will probably accept
    expenses and nominal damages but they will play hardball over SYSV.

    The other cases will not cost SCOG a bomb at this point.

    SCOG cannot possibly argue "contract intent" against those directly
    involved in the contract. It's just not possible unless they infer conspiracy
    and that is somewhere they would not dare go without proof.

    I think there are some machinations going on in the background and one or two
    people are starting to pick up on it.

    Settlement in the near future anyone. Watching for SCOG's response or non
    response is going to be interesting.

    Brian S.

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    Some background on Newham
    Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 05:52 AM EDT
    Newham is one of the poorest places in the coutry.

    As someone who lives very close and has to travel to Newham a lot I can tell you first hand it is a total dump.

    Its also going to play a key part in Londons 2012 Olympic bid.

    I would have thought that every penny they could save would be important to them and that a large IT project like this would only take place if they could write off the financing against central government.

    I'm sure the local tax payers will be up in arms if Newham tried to fund this directly as the area is badly in need of improved schools, hospitals, and policing.

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    Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
    Authored by: Woelfchen on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 09:39 AM EDT
    As I looked at the way how to match the program#s process
    ID from the tasklist with the output of the nestat tool
    manually I was reminded of what I used to hate most of M$
    operating systems: The ridicoulusly rudimentary script
    support and missing shell utilities.

    Any experienced Linux/Unix user would have written a
    script to automate this process within minutes!
    Something like this seems not to be in the scope of M$'s
    service packs or is it really still the OS lacking
    corresponding features?
    -----------
    "Abandon hope, all ya enter here ..."
    (Dante, Inferno)

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    Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
    Authored by: blacklight on Wednesday, August 18 2004 @ 11:42 AM EDT
    Hey, Steve Ballmer:

    When your company's products expose their vulnerabilities to crackers, their
    complexity to users and their lack of robustness to sys admins and sys engineers
    in return for exposing our wallets to your light-fingered touch, something has
    to got to give.

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    SP2 Update Woes - 1 Computer Destroyed
    Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, August 19 2004 @ 04:04 PM EDT
    I would caution anybody here to be very, very careful with the SP2
    update. We installed it on one machine two days ago and it changed the
    BIOS and caused the operating system to no longer recognize the
    hardware, ie, CD-Rom drive, floppy drive, etc. Basic functionality such as
    copy and paste and selection also failed.

    A rollback to the system state previous to the update failed. Reinstalling
    Windows XP Professional from the installation CD also failed.

    We have had to wipe everything off the computer and take it down to a
    completely basic configuration, but even then the computer will not
    allow us to reinstall Windows XP.

    Luckily everything on the computer was backed up, but we've now
    invested 30+ hours of work investigating the issue and trying to get the
    computer back up and running with Windows 98 as the OS. If we can get
    it to 98 then we'll try to upgrade back to Windows XP from there.

    Fun.

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    Hint to MS: It's Bad When Reporters Burst Into Laughter at Your FUD
    Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 20 2004 @ 11:45 AM EDT
    XPSP 2 is an attempt to make Windows more secure, something all the Linux
    advocates have been screamin about for years.

    They finally do *something* half-way right and still they get lambasted for it.
    Don't they deserve some credit for the effort, late though it may be?

    Wow, 50 broken apps...big deal. And having to configure ports for apps...that's
    true of any firewall that's worth spit. And linux people complaining about using
    a command line interface...go figure...

    My point is, if you are still reading, is that even MS can get it right
    sometimes.

    -----------
    Rob

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