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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot - Updated
Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:28 AM EDT

California Performance Review suggests the state of California should look into open source alternatives. Here's their summary, as to why:

"Each year the State of California spends millions of dollars on software, software maintenance and renewal. Many private and governmental organizations are turning to open source software as a cost-effective alternative to closed source software. The state should more extensively consider use of open source software, which can in many cases provide the same functionality as closed source software at a much lower total cost of ownership."

Since someone recently said only "idiots" use open source, I thought you'd like to know that the state of California is advocating boarding the ship of fools.

Here's what CPR explains, and it might clear up some misconceptions some of the older folks might have about FOSS. Some of them can't figure out that free means freedom, but it also means you can always get source code, thanks to the wonderful GPL. Yes, from Red Hat too. It's *services* you pay for, if you wish to:

"Open source solutions differ from closed source in many ways, one of which is cost. Open source solutions are typically free of charge, although some companies . . . often sell versions of open source software with related maintenance. . . .

"Open source software is developed with the source code freely available; anyone can use the software, and make changes to it as necessary. Typically changes are then made available back to the open source community using a common methodology for change control. In contrast to open source, most software development companies sell their products at a specific cost, but do not allow the user to see or modify the source code."

The reason I know some folks don't understand about free software and what it is and isn't is because I just read Rob Enderle's speech at SCOForum 2004, which SCO has put up on its web site, unbelievably enough. I wonder if they cleared it with their lawyers.

(Update: September 13, 2007: SCO has now removed it. Therefore, for historians, I provide a link to a line by line analysis of the speech on Wayback.)

[ Update 2: September 24, 2007: I have found it on Wayback, thanks to a link from a Joe Barr article about the keynote. It's here. It's the version SCO posted on its website. Note that the program listed a different title, "Free Software and the Fools Who Use It". You can see that original title on the program here. There is a third article on the keynote that Groklaw published, An Enderle Blow by Blow. As for the coverage of SCOforum in 2004, here is Groklaw's report on the first day of SCOForum and here is the report from the second day. Finally, note that the link to the line-by-line analysis is not to a Groklaw page but to a now defunct blog, FallingGrace.com.]

I won't give a url, and I'll tell you why. The language was so filthy, it is not fit for Groklaw and I'd never suggest anyone read it, for that reason. Anyway, if you want to, you can easily find it on your own. Really. I'm quite serious. I was offended. I've never in my life seen such language on a corporate web site. Are they not concerned that children may come to their web site? I'm starting to wonder what has happened to people's morals. Am I turning into an old lady myself or something? If you'd like a rundown, you can read Larry Greenemeier's blog about it. You'll see he was obviously a bit taken aback by the speech. I'll skip the part with the stars in it to replace one bad word, but he too tries to explain to Enderle that he misunderstands what free software is:

"Enderle warns against a world in which 'everything is free,' and suggested that a lot of the people behind the open-source and 'free-software' movement are former dot-com millionaires who made their fortune and have less of an interest right now making money than they do in keeping others – namely, proprietary vendors – from making money.

"Missing from Enderle's presentation, however, was the possibility that SCO itself could be perceived as a bully by using the threat of lawsuits to keep the Linux market from spreading as SCO dukes it out with IBM in the courtroom. Slowing Linux's growth seems to be the primary reason SCO in March sued AutoZone: for violating SCO's Unix copyrights. In other words, the auto parts retailer was singled out for being a Linux user.

"On Enderle's point that people and companies are 'fools' for thinking that they can get something for nothing, although I'm only one of many reporters covering the business and technology markets, I haven't heard any end-user companies talk about using Linux or open-source software because they think it's free. If I do find someone who says that, I'll let you know. Certainly, users point to Linux's lower cost when compared with Unix and Microsoft, but much of that cost savings – they say – comes from being able to use cheaper servers and avoid Microsoft licensing fees.

"This idea of 'free,' I'm told, refers more to the availability of source code than it does cost. Red Hat and Novell are in business to make money. They've found ways to do this off of open-source technology. It's just a different model than what's been tried in the past in selling operating systems, which was to make money off of OS licenses. Linux vendors make their money on services and the applications they package around the OS. SCO's not really so different, the company is looking at Web services tools and apps like SCOoffice as future sources of revenue. It also wants to charge specifically for its Unix OS. In the end, the market will decide who's right."

To illustrate his confusion, Enderle mentions several types of "free software" and the first example he uses is Gain. Gain is adware. Proprietary adware. Is there any other kind? There is no FOSS adware or snoopware. If anyone was silly enough to make some, anyone could look at the code and see they were being snooped on. That's the advantage of being able to look at the code yourself. Here's Gain's very proprietary license:

"License Restrictions. You may not access or use Licensed Materials other than through the graphical user interface provided with the Licensed Products and you are prohibited to access or cause the operation of the Licensed Materials through the use of any type of high-volume, automated, or electronic processes. You may not distribute or copy (other than for backup purposes) the Licensed Materials. You may not, and you agree not to attempt or allow others to attempt to, modify, reverse-engineer, decompile, disassemble, or otherwise discover the Licensed Materials or equivalents of Licensed Materials including but not limited to GP's technology and methodology for delivery of advertisements and the content of any and all of GP's communications and content stored on GP's servers, or to access or modify the Licensed Materials' source code in any way. You do not have the right to create derivative works of Licensed Materials and any and all such modifications or enhancements to the Licensed Materials are the sole property of GP or its business associates. You further agree not to access GP or GP business associate services or software application by any means other than the interface provided by GP or such business associate to access the relevant service. You acknowledge and agree that any and all communications between GP and the Licensed Materials and the content stored on GP's computer servers and in its software includes confidential information of GP and you may not access, publish, transmit, display, create derivative works of, store, or otherwise exploit any such confidential information except as such functions are performed by the Licensed Materials in the ordinary course of operation. Any use of a packet sniffer or other device to intercept or access communications between GP and the Licensed Materials is strictly prohibited. Without limiting GP's rights, you understand that GP, in its discretion, may modify, discontinue, or suspend your right to access any of the Licensed Materials at any time; provided, however, in the event that GP makes such modification, discontinuance, or suspension of your right to access any of the Licensed Materials, you may terminate your obligation to receive GAIN Ads, and this Agreement, by removing all GAIN Supported Software as provided hereunder."

The next example he gives is "free trials" of Go Back. Go Back by Norton (now Symantec-owned) is also proprietary software, as you can see from their EULA, which you can get as a PDF from this page. Just scroll down to the link beneath "License Agreement."

Neither example has anything to do with free software. In short, he doesn't know what free software is, so nothing he said means anything, not that it wasn't interesting to hear about his pistol-packing, law-breaking days and all, running from a wife's husband or whatever that part was about, and his grateful ties to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer. The Ballmer part has swear words embedded, but the Gates section is clean, so here you go, the reason why he says he feels biased toward Microsoft:

"With Microsoft my relationship goes deeper. A few years back, when I was first starting out as an analyst, I got myself into a lot of hot water by doing something I knew was wrong to prevent a crime from being committed. I am both an ex-auditor and an ex-sheriff and took the related vows very seriously and still, for the most part, live by them.

"By all accounts I would have lost my job and probably had to change careers again if it weren't for Bill Gates personally coming to my defense and pointing out that what I did probably kept a lot of folks out of jail. He didn't have to do that and, to this day I doubt he even remembers he did, but I remember."

Poor Microsoft. With friends like this, who needs enemies? Enderle does say one thing worth repeating, in case it is true. Of course, being immersed in the rest of the pile, who knows? He says BayStar is "still" trying to take over SCO. Now isn't that special? Microsoft encourages BayStar to invest, and then BayStar tries to take over the company, presumably IP and all. It's a good thing SCO wasn't able to find any infringing code and Linux turned out to be clean as a whistle, huh? And that's if SCO actually has any IP, given Novell's assertion.

Speaking of sheriffs, it's free as in freedom, Mr. Enderle. As in free speech. You know, the thing America's Founding Fathers laid down their lives for?

He also incorrectly states that you can't get free software for free any more from Red Hat. You *can* get it right here. How can analysts come to correct conclusions if they don't get their facts right? They can't.

His obvious bias makes it impossible for him to get anything right, including his slander about Groklaw. He wants SCO to win, and he hates IBM, and that's that. I have to admit, it doesn't feel nice when people tell lies about you, though, and he says several untrue things about Groklaw. I didn't send anyone to SCOForum, by the way, for one thing. Those folks are losing it, and how.

Oh. I'm not a former dot.com millionaire either.

Groklaw is information, presented with links to proofs, so you can make up your own mind. If we've been effective, and obviously Mr. Enderle thinks we have been, it's the facts that have done it, and we don't control the facts. We just find them. That's Groklaw's secret. Research. If that decimates SCO's case, we are not to blame. It's the facts that do it. Clear, convincing facts are not bullying. It's called truth. No one has ever threatened anyone on Groklaw, by the way, that I've ever seen. Never. I don't even want swear words used here. And our encouragement has always been not to email Mr. Enderle or have any dealings with him.

He wants SCO to win and he's entitled to wish whatever he wants to. But his prejudiced and unbelievably vituperative emotional display in this speech doesn't add up to analysis. It's not even FUD. He behaved badly and embarrassed himself. Did they serve alcohol at SCOForum or something?

One more little detail: SCO's new distribution is jam packed with free software. Free as in freedom. And one new product began life as a Linux application, which was later ported to UNIX. Just so he knows, before he goes calling people who use free software idiots. I believe he counts SCO as a friend, so I doubt he meant to call *them* idiots. I personally think it's bad taste to call anyone an idiot, but obviously we live by different standards.

So, Groklaw has been attacked within the space of about a week by two of SCO's triumvirate. I expect next Laura DiDio will put out survey results showing that 4 out of 5 Windows users find Windows has a better TCO than Groklaw.

I hope Mr. Enderle will come to his senses and do the right thing. If he's a gentleman, he will. Because if he's in his right mind, doesn't suffer from hardening of the arteries, and was not drinking, he really should apologize for what he said about Groklaw.

Update January 26, 2009: I found it and decided that since Enderle claimed we should have made it available, I would. So here's the mp3, and you can hear for yourself what he said and who was truthful in covering it. Sorry about the language.


  


Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot - Updated | 806 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Speeling erors
Authored by: Stoneshop on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:34 AM EDT
go here

---
Rik
IANALJLMOY


[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Speeling erors - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:00 AM EDT
    • Speeling erors - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, August 12 2004 @ 04:59 PM EDT
Links, OT, etc.
Authored by: Stoneshop on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:35 AM EDT
go here

---
Rik
IANALJLMOY


[ Reply to This | # ]

And light-shy, smelly creatures
Authored by: Stoneshop on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:38 AM EDT
go here

---
Rik
IANALJLMOY


[ Reply to This | # ]

Off topic
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:38 AM EDT
I enjoy this section

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Sunny Penguin on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:41 AM EDT
"Really. I'm quite serious. I was offended. I've never in my life seen such
language on a corporate web site. I'm starting to wonder what has happened to
people's morals. Am I turning into an old lady myself or something?"

It means SCO backers know they have already lost.
Microsoft is not happy with them, While they have caused many delays to Linux
uptake, the public outcry and moral support for Linux is overcoming the FUD.
This is a failure for the Microsoft spin doctors, and they will go after blood
from the failing FUD minions.

As for the "Old Lady" part; I SERIOUSLY doubt that PJ....

---
Just Say No to Caldera/SCO/USL/?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:41 AM EDT
Really is what he says important.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: WhiteFang on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:48 AM EDT
I'm sorry you had to read The Pretendor's speech. I guess
putting up with such unpleasantness is part of your new
job description. I know that there have been quite a few
things I haven't been able to stomach.

Once again PJ - and everyone else who takes the time to
dissect all the crap - thank you very, very much for all
you do for the rest of us.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:55 AM EDT
I regret that I must say that some of the confusion comes from our own use of words.

The biggest part is the multiple meanings of the word 'free' in the English language. It has a lot of connotations that are objectionable or give the impression of 'cheap and tawdry', hence involving a lot of explaination to make our meaning clear.

With all due respect to RMS the term Open-Source gives a clearer idea of what's involved as an initial introduction to the concepts.

We really do need to find an English-language word that correctly (or more closely) represents the concepts of the French 'Libre'.

Despite the old saw about the best things in life being free most business people are very much imbued with the idea of 'you get what you pay for' and we have to dis-associate purchase price from the quality of software. I do not think that continued use of 'free' will allow us to do that.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Foul language and lies...
Authored by: Tomas on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:28 AM EDT
It is rather amazing, after all.

I have some LDS friends, and there was a rotation of very nice young gentlemen
who lived in this apartment building while on mission for several years.

There is not a one of those folks who would accept the lies, vile slanders, or
language Enderle used in his official talk on behalf of The SCO Group.

I *might* understand TSCOG being taken by surprise by this outsider's language,
but since they now proudly display it on their site, and point to it with pride,
I am forced to believe that it more reflects the inherant quality of the people
running the company.

Anyone who believes that TSCOG is in any way 'special' because of the supposedly
devout, honest faithful leading it, really does need to read that garbage and
understand that those same leaders obviously feel in enough accord with it to
prominantly display it on their site.

Has Orrin read this? ;o)

Mayhaps someone should suggest to him that he should, so he better understands
his boy's clients...


---
Tom
Engineer (ret.)
"Friends don't let friends use Microsoft."

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Foul language and lies... - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:42 AM EDT
  • agreed - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:05 PM EDT
    • If... - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:14 PM EDT
      • If... - Authored by: J.F. on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT
    • No exactly condemnation.. - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 05:21 PM EDT
Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:29 AM EDT
"One more little detail: SCO's new distribution is jam packed with free
software." PJ

SCOG is using free software as in "free beer", not as in
"freedom".

"Just so he knows, before he goes calling people who use free software
idiots." PJ

Rob Enderle just put a gun to his head and blew his brains out with that
statement, given that say for example Microsoft installations are deploying
Mozilla Firefox these days to mitigate the impact of IE vulnerabilities on their
budget. If Rob Enderle wants to call his prospective customes "idiot",
should we stop stop him? To those of us who might advocate stopping him, my
retort would be: surely, you jest!

"I personally think it's bad taste to call anyone an idiot, but obviously
we live by different standards." PJ

I live by different standards, too: I was fired once by a CEO because I had been
caught on tape calling him a thief, a cheat and a liar - The only reason I had
not called him an idiot in that cafeteria room that he had bugged is that that
specific subject had not come up during the conversation. Six weeks later, I was
happily consulting at twice the rate he was paying me as a full-time employee. I
did not take the firing personally: so far as I was concerned, he just couldn't
handle the truth. I wouldn't have been surprised if he would have complained
later that I had tricked him into firing me! At any rate, Mr. CEO- Wharton MBA
ran his outfit into the ground 18 months after he had fired me: an expensive
education is totally lost on some people.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: geoff lane on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:32 AM EDT
Exactly how did Enderle become an "analyst" when he appears to know so little about the industry he writes about. He is regularly ridiculed about his writings about Apple, he seems to have no idea about the foundations of FOSS, he seems to have issues with IBM (which immediately puts into question anything he may write about IBM.)

For example, he recently wrote about the advantages of a Sun/Apple merger, an article that is quite stunning in its cluelessness. For the past 20 years people have been suggesting that a Sun/Apple, or a Apple/Sun, takeover would be a good idea (depending on which company was currently seen as a winner.) Does anybody really think that the two company cultures could ever work together?

It's scary to see how much of what we hope is informed news turns out to be the ramblings of 10 cent windbags.

---
Ten Truths Of Linux -- http://zoe.mcc.ac.uk/tentruths.html

[ Reply to This | # ]

I love Analysts
Authored by: Whiplash on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:37 AM EDT
I read the speech, no shame doing that, you need to know with whom you are
dealing with.

Lots of things stuck out but two in particular:

1) His focus on Grolaw (I should count the mentions) means that the site is
actually very very effective at getting points across to the other side.

2) The complete lack of understanding of what "free" means. I actually
have no doubt he knows it means "free as in speech" and he was just
stirring the pot and making SCO a happy client.

At the end of the day you get what you pay for; And Enderle is paid by MS and
SCO.

Whip

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • I love Analysts - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 09:06 AM EDT
"Daimler was a mistake" says Rob Enderle
Authored by: stuart_hc on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:37 AM EDT
Is this the first time SCO has admitted that the Daimler Chrysler lawsuit was a
mistake? From Rob Enderle's keynote speech at SCO Forum 2004:

"Daimler was a mistake, BayStar has its own agenda, and AutoZone isn't
really a loss; the outcome is just tied to the IBM case that founds all of
this."

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:38 AM EDT
"A few years back, when I was first starting out as an analyst, I got
myself into a lot of hot water by doing something I knew was wrong to prevent a
crime from being committed. I am both an ex-auditor and an ex-sheriff and took
the related vows very seriously and still, for the most part, live by
them." Rob Enderle

Rob Enderle sounds a lot like that Texas Policeman of the Year Coleman, whose
"investigation" and whose testimony sent 46 innocent people into the
big house a few years ago.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle the Groklawer's types
Authored by: kb8rln on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:39 AM EDT

Well here is what Rob Said about me since I am a Groklawer.

Anti-SCO FUD propaganda

Well I would like to see the other side here like Fair and BalanceTM but that is up to PJ. I do have a mind of my own, Thank you.

So, as much as I'd like to bash the folks who are active on Groklaw I've begun to see many as victims. To the Groklaw spies, look around, these are people who work for a living, why do you feel that hurting them helps you or your cause?

Well I am not a victim and I work for a living. I am a Professional Internal Linux Consutance. The SCO group hurts my well being. So will the TSG stop sueing and write some good code without SAMBA, APACHE, BIND, GCC, BINUTILS etc. Write something better then Linux and you will win. That is a free market.

While I was with IBM I saw us falsify internal reports to make key units look better while putting key customers at critical risk, I saw us mistreat partners because they didn't behave the way we wanted them to, and I had first hand experience of employee abuse that, to this day, even I find hard to believe. None of this would have been known to executive management had I not reported it.

I am not disagreeing with your words here but I have seen Microsoft do the same things. With Linux you are not lock into on vendor so customer service will be better for all people that use Linux. Remember that absolute power corrupt absolutly. And you do a good job of pointing this out for me. So in you point Microsoft and IBM are bad.

Free Software and the Idiots who buy it

Free software is free. To keep it free for you is that you need to have knowledge. If you do not have the knowledge you need to buy the knowledge to use it. This is what I do for a living.

No sales tax, no income tax, no mark-up, only problem was it wasn't legal either. It didn't help that only some things were in the program, people were very creative when it came to what their stuff was worth, and the program was difficult to use.

Well I disagree with you here. I paid income tax and sale tax on consulting. With there being a need for more of us in this service economic and small bussinesses make up most of the tax income of are govement. I can see govement making more money.

This is the big problem with "Free" it doesn't contribute to anything, not even the salaries of the people who create it.

Well here is one thing that I am doing that will go back into the free code base. A Chinese restaurant that need a POS. What I am added to the free POS software is that ablity too have English put POS system for the waiters and Chinese come out to the cooks. This is not something I could do with Micro Register.

Additional Cost of Free Ever wonder who pays for things like Cancer Research and the grants that fund advanced research in Artificial Intelligence? Much of that comes from foundations funded by individuals and companies. The other very big investor is the Department of Defense.

Well you need to look at UNIX is was a DOD grant that help develop Unix standers. Even ADA (DOD), Cobol, Fortan was becuase of grands. Maybe a history lession then.

To the SCO employees in the audience, Carpe Diem folks, continue to make a difference, to the SCO investors and supporters, you are in good company sometimes; being on the right side doesn't mean being on the popular side, and to the folks in the audience who are just here to slam the company, buy a clue, it's the best money you will ever spend.

Well Carpe Diem Rob and since you like latin may I add quid pro quo. There is alway something for something with opensource. The more you give and your friend give the more you get back. This can go on exponentially until you type of software will not be able to compete anymore.


Penguinman.com

---
Director Of Infrastructure Technology (DOIT)
Really this is my Title so I not a Lawyer.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:39 AM EDT
"Enderle warns against a world in which 'everything is free,' and suggested that a lot of the people behind the open-source and 'free-software' movement are former dot-com millionaires who made their fortune and have less of an interest right now making money than they do in keeping others – namely, proprietary vendors – from making money."

To people in the SCO/Enderle camp who feel they can't compete in the software industry, I would recommend considering a change of career.

[ Reply to This | # ]

The fantastic quote...
Authored by: robertpostill on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:40 AM EDT
I couldn't help but have a nose over to Mr Enderle's presentation. I must admit
I wasn't as offended as others by his language but the one thing that lept out
and bit me was this quote:
"I know the best way to get information out of a company is to go directly
to the employees who know it (often pretending you are someone you are
not)."

That's it, right there. A superb reason to love free software communities. Mr
Enderle may not think it's bad that in order to get help from people who really
know about a software package I have to lie, rant, cajole and abuse others but I
do. I can attend a Linux User Group meeting and in one hour down the pub get
friendly, expert opinion on my problem or join a mailing list and get support
from others on different continents. Lets just say it beats getting my credit
card out and being put on hold for thirty-plus minutes. Or having to
investigate a dozen possibilities in order to get the vendor to admit there is
something wrong with their product and not my system.

Thanks Mr Enderle, you really reminded me why FOSS is so much better than
proprietary software.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:40 AM EDT
I wonder if Mr. Enderle realizes how much free software is included in Windows.
First it was the browser and email client, now it includes all kinds of
utilities from disk maintenance and compression to image viewing and
manipulation.

A tired of "free" bashing person

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: inode_buddha on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:41 AM EDT
One thing I had noticed in Enderle's comments, is that the "OK" definitions of "free" are in the monetary sense, and support various kinds of business activity. Kinda says a lot about where his priorities are, just IMHO. Now, I like money just as much as the next guy, maybe even more so; but that certainly doesn't blind me to all the other posibilities in life, nor does it dictate what I think a good work is.

By the way PJ, I'm glad I've got a bit of a thick skin (regarding the language) [ grin ]

---
"When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price." -- Richard M. Stallman

[ Reply to This | # ]

Enderle headline 'Land of Free now means Cost of Living = $0'
Authored by: golding on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:42 AM EDT
So the title 'USA, Land Of The FREE', now means it costs nothing to live there.
Beaut, I'll just apply for that funny coloured card (Work Permit) and move over
right now. Hang on, I won't need the green card, it costs nothing to live!
Just pop around to Rob E's place and take all I want, for nothing....it's FREE!

What if we all decided to live at Enderles place, after all he lives in the land
of the free, therefore he would understand if we wanted to live at his place
under his rules of 'free'.

Then lets see how long before he becomes someone who understands the difference
between 'free of cost' and 'free of restrictions'

---
I opened my mouth and proved them right.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I feel rather sad.
Authored by: hardcode57 on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:45 AM EDT
I read the text of his speach on the SCO site, and I felt really sad for him.
Really. The guy is clearly a desperately insecure fantasist: he's says he's been
so many things in his life, and so much better than his peers that no
organisation could hold him, all in terms sufficiently vague to be uncheckable.
He could have us think that he is sufficiently well connected to Gates and
Ballmer that they look after him, so some of their power appears to rub off on
him.

I used to think that he was shilling for SCO for the money, and I'm sure that
he's paid. But I'm also sure that his real reward is gratitude and a salesman's
bonhomie from Darl and Co., which he interprets as friendship. And of course he
is going to side with people like SCO: they are the one's who will be grateful
to him, because they are the most isolated. He can't help it.

We've all met people like him, and the natural response is, and should be, pity.
I just can't feel any hostility for the poor guy any more.But I can't give him
the affirmation he craves either.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle On The Sauce?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:46 AM EDT
Sure sounds like he was on the sauce to me. I can't believe anyone sober would
embarrass themselves and their so-called ally like that.

So much for the career of Rob "Group of One" Enderle and his plethora
of erroneous, shilled predictions.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:46 AM EDT
The idea that one gets what one pays for contradicts the fact that some of the
best things in life are free. That idea also leaves out that one could get much
more than what one paid for, and conversely that one could get much less than
one paid for (, e.g. Rob Enderle's paid advice).

[ Reply to This | # ]

BG ears burning?
Authored by: Anni on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:54 AM EDT
Poor Microsoft. With friends like this, who needs enemies?
Yep. I wonder how B. Gates must feel after reading these confessions from SCOs website? Despite his flaws he is not a complete idiot (sorry for the use of THAT word again), and probably spots the ridiculous foam-mouthed fanaticism wrapped around Enderle's mega-size ignorance. And Bill surely knows that the rest of the world spots that too. I would feel VERY uncomfortable if the source of this kind of rant called himself my friend.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Ali G should interview him
Authored by: k9 on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:56 AM EDT
Given RE started with the bad language, perhaps we should look to get Ali G to
interview him next time he's in da U.S.Aiii. Ali is soooo good at deflating
these pompous stuffed shirts.

[ Reply to This | # ]

More GPL misunderstandings
Authored by: worst-case on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:00 AM EDT
Server Elements also has misconceptions on the GP License

And they do not realize they are very wrong. What a pity ...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell news, SCO news
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:04 AM EDT
Novell have filed a motion to dismiss with prejudice SCO's amended complaint.
The reasons cited are lack of malice, and privilege. A copy of the memo is on
SCO's site at www.sco.com/novell

Meanwhile, SCO is talking up how they plan to raise their Linux IP license
price:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/0,39020645,39162998,00.htm

This admission has led to speculation
that there is now no incentive for
companies to move quickly to protect
themselves against SCO's lawyers.

SCO has a plan to try and counter
such complacency. According to
Blake Stowell, SCO's public relations
director, firms that elect to sit tight
and see if SCO wins could end up
out of pocket.

He told ZDNet UK that SCO was "evaluating" its SCOSource
programme, and could decide to make it much
more expensive for companies to indemnify themselves against attack from
SCO in the future.

"Companies that license now may be able to do so cheaper than if they
do so later," said Stowell.

Two types of IP licences are currently on offer from SCOSource: "paid
up" licences that give permanent
indemnity, and annual licences, which vary between one-fifth and two-fifths
of the cost of a full version.

SCO may decide not to offer both options in the future and could, for
example, decide to insist on an annual
payment that would be more lucrative in the long term.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A lack of command of the language?
Authored by: PeteS on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:13 AM EDT
I have usually (not always, of course) found that swearing is a resort used by those with less than a stellar command of the language. I am not referring to a specific language here, either.

Isn't it delicious, in a way, that someone who lists themselves as an analyst (who is obviously published) who wishes to persuade others to his point of view appears to not have the communications skills to do it.

I might suggest he join the WordADay list.

PJ - when I see this sort of thing, it usually means the person or group doing it are on the run and attempt to shoot the messenger; this sort of thing backfires though, with the use of this sort of language, because it becomes abundantly clear that this is indeed exactly what they are doing.

Keep up all the good work !

PeteS

---
Today's subliminal thought is:

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Nick_UK on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:13 AM EDT
I have just read that Enderle speech.

I don't honestly think I have ever read so much tripe being spoken totally
incorrectly about any subject.

The man makes out he has a lot of knowledge and experience (and no doubt he
has), but he obviously has totally lost the plot here - big time.

All the time SCO and friends buy people that think (and _say_) tripe like this,
Linux and it's coders/users/followers will never lose.

He also forgets (as they all do) that the people who code/use Linux don't give 2
bloody hoots if people/Companies don't use it - it all done for fun and the love
of doing it and being part of a great community - not to make money.

Nick

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Gardener_Druid on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:14 AM EDT
Looks like somebody must 've cleaned up Mr. Enderle a bit. I just read the
keynote on SCO's forum site and only found two occurrances of a common, vulgar
reference to bovine fecal matter. One usage with a space, the other without.
Censorship is alive and well at SCO.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:14 AM EDT
Don't mind, folks.

People like Enderle may be annoying for a while, but with such a twisted world
view they tend to eradicate themselves quite quickly. You don't even need to do
something, the problem will solve itself.

TToni

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle - need a few elephants
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:21 AM EDT
Does anyone remember Rob Enderle at ROLM or IBM? It would be intersting to
confirm or dispute the stated jobs and responsibilities.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle, SCO, and Groklaw
Authored by: Kennebel on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:22 AM EDT
I feel that the reason "They" are generally so against Groklaw in particular, is that this site represents, as mentioned in PJ's comments elsewhere on this site, an extension of the FOSS ideals in a different environment. This must be a scary thought, given the standard way of conducting business appears to be almost entirely dependant on manipulating enough of the population through a media that rewards braggarts. "We have millions of lines of code, we don't even need discovery." comes to mind.

Probably, the idea that not only are 'they' losing total control over the software market, but that there might be a grassroots shift against the typically corporate held reporting voices (and a business held news agency wouldn't want to hurt other corporations, or risk upsetting potential advertisers). Oh, and that shift is working AND having a noticable effect. (unlike most efforts in this vein which last a couple of months, report on important things, and then fade away)

So here they are, having to fight fog (the little droplets of water representing developers all over the world) in many respects, while the flamethrower they brought in is running out of fuel because some annoying kid (PJ & Groklaw) is crimping down the feed line line a water hose. :)

Start of a social revolution? Given the, err, unpleasentness in control of our country, it will be awhile before anything significant happens, but maybe instead of having to nuke ourselves to wake up (sudden wake up via alarm clock), maybe we can wake up naturally (sun shining in the window), and just try to help each other, while still making a living at it... :)

Okay, fine, maybe i'm waxing philosophic, but it is nice to read the thoughts and ideas of people that are involved with the tech industry, and believe that there might be more than one answer to a question. (working IT in a medium-sized company is lonely, everyone else is just a user)

THANK YOU PJ and the rest of you Groklaw'ers!!!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Fuel Cell?
Authored by: darthaggie on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:34 AM EDT
Did they serve alcohol at SCOForum or something?

Maybe someone sent him an evaluation fuel cell rig for his laptop. The kind that uses grain alcohol (180 proof or better) to generate power? Having partaken in some "bathtub punch" (grain alcohol + lemonade), it's like trying to go 15 rounds with Lennox Lewis. If you're lucky, you'll go 5 rounds before throwing in the towel.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Fuel Cell? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:21 AM EDT
  • Not the towel - Authored by: cadfael on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:57 AM EDT
Reap what you sow
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:38 AM EDT
Thank you, Rob, for being the lungs behind SCO's last gasp. That you are the one
to stubbornly lie down with the corpse to the end and beyond... totally fitting.
And you can quote me on that (selectively and out of context, of course),
seeing as how you will be poring over these comments the same way SCO obsessed
over their hundreds of press clippings 'demonstrating' their own importance.

Thank you for a thoroughly amusing and dramatic finale. I laughed, I cried, I
got an itch. Now please just return quietly to obscurity and your unfinished
therapy.

Fear not, though. I'm sure PJ will devote a whole chapter to your clownish
antics in her forthcoming book, so you'll get your desperately hoped for
immortality. Woody Allen will play your part in the movie.

SCO, of course, has already appeared in a string of movies. I believe it was
the series where SCO wore a hockey mask and Jamie Lee Curtis kept burying an axe
in it, asking, 'Why won't you... just... DIE!

And I'm sure Bill Gates values the contribution both you and Ken Brown have made
to Microsoft's credibility and future success. Here's my analyst predictions:
Microsoft will issue a statement calling your rant 'unhelpful' or 'distracting'
or 'Rob who?'.

Reap what you sow, Rob. It's a bumper crop you've seeded this time.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Observations
Authored by: snorpus on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:45 AM EDT
Upon reading the text of Mr. Enderle's keynote on the SCO web site...
  1. RE sure is full of himself, isn't he?
  2. I sure wish I had had $5K to put into movie production at age 15. That would have been about 3 semesters of tuition at a well-known engineering university.
  3. Sometimes, a series of firings, resignations, etc., are indicative of problems with the employee, not the employers.

As an aside, in the The Cost of Free section, does anyone know if the mistake in the first sentence was in the prepared text, or a(nother) SCO transcription error?

---
73/88 de KQ3T ---
Montani Semper Liberi

[ Reply to This | # ]

Enderle language, SCO language
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:46 AM EDT
Enderle Group,

Caldera renames itself SCO Group


Enderle: "We have folks in the audience supporting Groklaw"..."If Linux is as good as people like this say, why is it necessary to do something as unethical as placing spies in events"

Sontag or Darl (?): Raise your hand if you're a Groklaw spy (paraphrased).... nobody raised their hand from accounts that I've read


Enderle: "Linux attack force"..."often making physical threats".

Darl: numerous references to alleged threats made against him


Enderle: "I traveled armed for 4 years under constant threat of death,"

Darl: I carry a handgun, have sharp shooters, etc. (paraphrased)



SCO: Read SCO's Linux IP license and the section about obligations


Enderle: maybe the little guy could be wrong

Darl: I could be wrong, but I doubt it


Enderle: Entire section on big company disease

Hatch: check transcript of last hearing about big firms


Enderle: If I thought there was even a chance that IBM was trying to co-opt Linux like they tried to do with Windows, did with OS-2, and tried with AIX I'd like to know that.

Comment: I was under the impression OS/2 and AIX were IBM products, what is to co-opt?


Enderle: IP is the new Gold, and Linux the new Mill Creek

SCO: It's about IP (etc, on numerous occassions). Usually just this vague reference to "IP". Not patents, trade secrets, copyright, etc.



P.S.
Interesting reference to Enderle's bad investments. I wonder if SCOX will soon be added to the list.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:48 AM EDT
I was going to say "He doesn't get it.", but that's obviously not the
case. Yes. Groklaw is an IBM shill and FUD master. This is why PJ
consistantly fails to post supporting...

Oh. Wait. She DOES post supporting documentation, articles, and even refrences
directly to the argicles of opposing views and doesn't just leave her own views
and interpretation as the sole reference.

Just like Enderle does, he... Oh Wait again. He only references his own
articles, or something similar that only discusses someones opinion. Never any
hard evidence, hard facts, numbers and data from independant sources.

Well, considering PJ, did we doubt she would surpass him in thoroughness,
completeness and accuracy?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: deList on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:50 AM EDT
Contrary to popular opinion, Mr. Enderle might understand exactly what he's
talking about. Think about it. He had to come of with these examples of
"free" software, which means, he had to carefully find examples that
expressed the view he was attempting to make...careful assimulation of these
attributes to free (as in freedom) software that he wished to push. It's not an
easy task to consistantly provide such examples without accidentally providing
the proper one as well -- unless one is specifically trying to avoid the one.
FUD all the way.

---
"The problem with SCO is not them misunderstanding. It is daring anyone to call
them on their misinterpretation." - Anon, 1/13/2004

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: eibhear on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:53 AM EDT

Here is a thought: is there any company in the world who would allow an employee to give a speech ("key note" or otherwise) in such rude and disrespectful manner? If Mr. Enderle wasn't his own boss, it would surprise me if he hadn't been fired on the spot for addressing his audience so. What value is the analysis of the Enderle Group if it's to be expressed like that? (Whatever about the language, the tone alone screams vitriol.) It would be interesting to know how many at his talk felt disgusted or embarrassed enough to walk out.

Surely you have to show respect to your audience if you want....

And that's when it hit me: His intended audience was not those present at the talk but us, here, reading and commenting on it, and the wider community of users, developers and promoters of Free Software. He thinks we talk and think in the same manner as he presented himself, and that we would respond in kind. He believes the Free Software community to be made up of criminals (he says so in his speech) and felt he had to address us in "our own jive" to make us see the errors of our ways.

You got on the wrong boat, Mister Enderle. The Free Software community is in a place of integrity and respect for which you would have difficulty getting a visa. Like a great number of people in the world today, unfortunately, you seem to think a unethical PR war is the best way to come out the winner. In the SCO story, that is proving to be an act of overwhelmingly poor judgement.

Would you speak to investors like that -- even if you wanted to mislead them?

Éibhear

[ Reply to This | # ]

Boarding the ship of fools
Authored by: Woelfchen on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:05 AM EDT
Since someone recently said only "idiots" use open source, I thought you'd like to know that the state of California is advocating boarding the ship of fools. That sounds a little bit like a reference to Noah, doesn't it?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:06 AM EDT
There is one common thread that binds this speech and SCO's actions. They
believe that for people to contribute effort (code and time) into something
without being paid is un-American. Mr McBride has said so explicitly and Mr
Enderle has implied this. They have a point. The saying is that the business of
America is business. Now if we have a large, talented pool of people who are
creating something and not asking for anything in return (except possibly
recognition) then that _does_ attack the model on which America's society has
been built. If we continue to think and talk about them as if they are loonies
we run the risk of missing the point. Theses guys aren't tilting at the
Linux/FOSS windmill for the hell of it, they honestly believe that this model of
development attacks the foundations of American society. They're wrong of
course. They're modern day Luddites, but we should remember that old Ned Ludd
had honest (if unfounded) fears.

[ Reply to This | # ]

PJ, it's time to cheer up!
Authored by: skuggi on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:07 AM EDT
Dont take Mr.Enderle attack seriously, according to the Iron Lady, now is the
right time to cheer up!

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because
I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single
political argument left." -Margaret Thatcher

-Skuggi.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: cpw on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:08 AM EDT
Oh dear! I've just read through the rant that is Mr Enderle's keynote speech at ScoForum.

Quite frankly while I suspect it was ernestly and passionately delivered I couldn't help being mindful of the character of "The Australian Cultural Attache" as portrayed by one Barrie Humphries of that fair land.

The mental picture of the guy flushed of face, gently swaying, perspiring and dribbling all over the place just seemed too apt for words. It probably didn't happen like that at all, but I can't help wondering what Mr Humphries would do with a script based based on the text of that speech, I'm sure it would be a giggle though.

BTW in case your wondering Barrie's alter-ego is Dame Edna Everage, beloved my millions of us Brits.

Cheers,

CPW.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Windows Zealot at large
Authored by: phrostie on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:22 AM EDT
many times the closed world will call us Zealots, saying we only want one thing
and are not objective. they use this in a less than favorable context.

at what point will the rest of the world start to see that Dear Mr. Enderle(and
a few others in his camp) is more of a Zealot than any of us could ever be.

---
=====
phrostie
Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of DOS
and danced the skies on Linux silvered wings.
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/snafuu

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle not a credible analyst
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:23 AM EDT
This man is apparently an account (according to his speech). He shows no
references to his technical qualifications on his website, only his experience
as an "analyst". Further, he destroys the illusion of his
professional reputation by speaking in such a prejudicial manner, and it becomes
clear that he has no valid credentials to judge the relative merits of SCO's
case.

I believe that the various periodicals that currently pay him to publish these
ill informed decisions will likely not renew his contract for fear of harming
their own reputations.

Thank you Rob. You did a great job destroying yourself.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Oh, please! - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:49 PM EDT
Is Rob Enderle revealing the next battle plan?
Authored by: PolR on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:26 AM EDT
<blockquote>
If you've been watching, companies are slowly moving to acquire IP and they
appear to be planning on recouping that investment at some future time. With
Open Source software you can see, in great detail, what makes the products tick
and this makes discovery relatively simple. It is my belief that people and
companies are now mining this software for opportunities and then acquiring the
intellectual property they will need to "mine" Linux users at some
future point, granted only well funded non-government users.
</blockquote>
This plan is despicable. Assuming the IP is patents, this scheme would probably
work under the current system.
<p>

[ Reply to This | # ]

Groklaw's Little Minds
Authored by: Atticus on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:30 AM EDT
The last third of his article was obviously wrong- he reads "Free" as
in "Free vacations", not as in "Live free or die". But that
wasn't even his apex of incorrectness.

He reached the peak when he mentions "the little Groklaw brains..."
The problem he and his pals at SCO are running into is that the brains in this
portion of the field are really quite large. Starting with Richard Stallman,
Eben Moglen, Linus Torvalds, PJ, and a cast of thousands, they've severely
misunderstood the power of a lot of big brains to reveal the truth. Their
carefully crafted media scheme is crumbling, their voices are getting shrill,
people are awake and paying attention, and the truth- as always- continues to
prevail.

It's a shame, really. Rob's experience shows that he might actually be a fairly
competent, intelligent guy. But it seems his choice of friends has generated
such a bias in him that he has broken his b******t meter. And although mine was
pegged at Overload at the beginning of SCO's campaign, various tests along the
way have shown it to be completely within calibration.

I would suggest to Mr. Enderle that he try to avoid character attacks and return
to looking for the truth in situations.

---
--
-Atticus (who is not a lawyer :-) aka Mike Schwager)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:32 AM EDT
Have you ever sat down and had a conversation with someone and all of a sudden
for no reason they start blurting out their life story? What was your reaction?
Yup, Too Much Information. You really didn't want to know all of the things
that was causing angst in their life, you just wanted to discuss a simple
topic.

This Enderle speech is a classic Too Much Information scenario and all it tells
me is that Rob Enderle is in bad need of a therapist. I'm completely serious.
If this kind of angst is starting to affect your professional decisions (like
confessing all of this is a public professional speech), then you need help. I
hope he gets it, because if this keeps up, then he loses credibility with even
his most ardent supporters.

[ Reply to This | # ]

This is not a link...
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:36 AM EDT
Although the language may be offensive to some, I think it's important to know
all the arguments that are being used against OSS.

So in that spirit I'll say that going to www.sco.com, clicking on "SCO
Forum 2004 Wrap-up", "Keynote presentations" (right hand side)
and then clicking on the second link from the bottom will get you there. If you
really really, don't want people to find it easily, then please delete this
post. I'll just say though, that I think his hysterical rantings will neatly
illustrate to anyone who hasn't been following this, the sort of madness
eminating from the SCO group.

He is certainly not doing them any favours and I find it bizarre that they put
it on their web site.

Naich.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:38 AM EDT
Just a quick note.
I emailed Enderle asking him why the hell SCO would let him title a speach in a
way that would be calling SCO fools. They are or were after all distributing
things such as Samba, MySql, apache etc with their software. Witch, according
the Enderle, would put them in the fools category.

He replied that the speach was actually "Free software and the fools who
BUY it". He said that the change was ment as propaganda for the Open
source side.

Now I checked and well...I can find a whole bunch of articles talking about the
"Free software and the fools who..." speech, but every single one of
them comes out of an open source supporting site. Not a SINGLE reference to the
title he said it was. Then I went to the SCO site (I promise to wash my hands
after) and there it was, "Free software and the idiots who BUY it".

Now I'm all for blowing the wistle on bad reporting and bad arguments. I'm all
about destroying shills everywhere they can be found. Hell I even have a site
dedicated to doing that.

But please, you can't claim to be "digging for truth" like the site
says and commit the same errors the other side does, witch is be critical and
angry about what the other side says without checking if it's ACTUALLY true,
witch is the same a publishing a lie.

Yes Enderle acts like a shill for sale. Yes He makes very bad unsupported
comments and yes his arguments get published to a broad audience and they can
sometimes be aggravating if not damaging. But twisting his words and using that
as propaganda really doesn't help at all. It just gives him more ammo.

I very often am critical of journalists and websites for not checking their
facts. Well Groklaw, this ones for you. Get your facts straight before you
criticize.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle is now discredited...
Authored by: Latesigner on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:39 AM EDT
and he's done it to himself.
There will be someone else to take his place, there are always more of them, but
Enderle is history.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Wealth vs Money
Authored by: TimDaly on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:43 AM EDT
Besides misunderstanding the idea of "free as in speech"
SCO seems to misunderstand "Wealth vs Money". Work creates
wealth which can be exchanged for money. My efforts as a
free software developer create wealth. It is useful to me
and sometimes useful to others. The fact that I don't charge
for the wealth I create just means that I don't exchange the
wealth for money. SCO can't understand this at all. Perhaps
they should read Chapter 6 of Paul Graham's book "Hackers &
Painters" titled "How to make wealth". Or maybe Adam Smith's
"Wealth of Nations". The free software people are creating
wealth at a furious rate and we all benefit.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I bore easily
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:46 AM EDT

It wasn't until I started to work at IBM proper in 1991 that I really saw how unfeeling a big company can truly be. I had been in the ROLM subsidiary for the company and had held jobs in finance, been assigned to IBM legal, run field internal audit, and even co-managed a completive analysis lab among other things (I bore easily).

Yes. Yes, you do bore easily, Rob. You've bored me with very little effort on your part.

Of course you would see this as a hunger for new things, Rob. I see it as IBM struggling to find out where you fit into their team. Smartly, they finally gave up.

 

[ Reply to This | # ]

Untitled Document
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:50 AM EDT
The RE keynote page has no title, or rather, has the title coded as 'Untitled
Document' (<title>Untitled Document</title>).

Rush job or method behind the madness?

[ Reply to This | # ]

O'Reilly vs. Chomsky
Authored by: Thomas Downing on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:51 AM EDT
Enderly vs. Groklaw.

---
Thomas Downing
Principal Member Technical Staff
IPC Information Systems, Inc.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Disgruntled former employee shoots from the lip
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:57 AM EDT

While I was with IBM I saw us falsify internal reports to make key units look better while putting key customers at critical risk, I saw us mistreat partners because they didn't behave the way we wanted them to, and I had first hand experience of employee abuse that, to this day, even I find hard to believe. None of this would have been known to executive management had I not reported it.

Time for IBM to haul Enderle into court, methinks. Let me guess: Rob has all the evidence, but it's sitting in a suitcase in Germany.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Latesigner on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:04 AM EDT
It's not a legal title, he just called himself one and people were to lazy to
check him out.
I'm betting his days on NPR are numbered though.

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: robmyers on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:09 AM EDT
" With all due respect to RMS the term Open-Source gives a clearer idea of
what's involved as an initial introduction to the concepts."

'Free' is a strong, historically precedented term that people misunderstand
precisely once. It means something you can't redefine or ignore. 'Open Source'
is a fuzzy, fairly meaningless concept, one that Ken Brown tried to redefine
recently. 'Free' is better.

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: apessos on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:10 AM EDT
"He also incorrectly states that you can't get free software for free any
more from Red Hat. You *can* get it right here (link removed). How can analysts
come to correct conclusions if they don't get their facts right? They can't.
"

Not to nitpick, but the link is to Fedora and has only Fedora downloads. While
Fedora is based off Red Hat, it isn't Red Hat. Try finding downloads for Red
Hat Enterprise Linux 3 from Red Hat's site. That's harder to do (at least, it
was a few months ago when I was looking) and I believe that's what Rob was
referring to.

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Stumbles on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:11 AM EDT
Well IIRC this seems to be about the third time now I have read
something written by Mr. Enderle and again he boasts about the
shotgun affair among other things. Why does he feel it necessary to
bring up all this personal history? I thought analysts were
supposed to be more narrowly focused.

Anyway, none personal stuff I can figure has any bearing except on
his microcosmic version of life, universe and everything.

Oh, I suppose if he was single, in the bar scene chumming for a
date, some of that personal history would be useful but totally
irrelevant concerning SCOGs "vulnerability".

Over all it this is just typical Enderle. seems he talks more about
things unrelated to SCOG than SCOG themselves. I hope SCOG
didn't pay him to much for this for that appearance.

It's humorous he referres to Groklaw eight times. Imagine that. He
takes a dim view of a site that makes readily available legal
documents that otherwise would be hard to obtain.

---
You can tuna piano but you can't tuna fish.

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He Makes One Good Point
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:13 AM EDT

Not his points about free software. That's all a little odd and deluded. But this point he makes:

Stop for a moment and take the macro view, how does the behavior of the Linux attack force that has been focused on SCO and Microsoft really differ from other hate groups.

Right on the money. Look at the comments so far on Groklaw. They are all either mocking or hateful towards Enderle, Microsoft or SCO. He goes on to say this.

I have a serious problem with people who are abusive, particularly those who use any excuse to cross the line into physical, emotional or verbal abuse. In my view this is uncalled for and the people who utilize this practice, this is a direct quote for Groklaw, aren't worth the air they breathe.

So let's see what Groklaw has said so far. These are direct quotes from this Groklaw comment section:

There is not a one of those folks who would accept the lies, vile slanders, or language Enderle used in his official talk on behalf of The SCO Group. [ed: accusing Enderle of lying and spreading slander is actually slander against Enderle]

...

Rob Enderle just put a gun to his head and blew his brains [ed: I don't care if it's meant to be a metaphor, it's a particularly vile and violent metaphor]

...

The guy is clearly a desperately insecure fantasist [ed: more slander]

...

SCO, of course, has already appeared in a string of movies. I believe it was the series where SCO wore a hockey mask and Jamie Lee Curtis kept burying an axe in it, asking, 'Why won't you... just... DIE! [ed: another unbelievably vile metaphor... how about we use the metaphor of Groklaw "raping Darl" for some balance?]

Even PJ jumps into the fray. Look at this lot:

Oh. I'm not a former dot.com millionaire either. [ed: he never said you were]

...

I didn't send anyone to SCOForum, by the way, for one thing. [ed: he didn't say you did, he said there were people in the audience who supported Groklaw]

...

He also incorrectly states that you can't get free software for free any more from Red Hat. [ed: he didn't say that... he said you can't get Red Hat Linux for free anymore, and you can't, and the fact that you linked to Fedora instead of Red Hat should be all the proof anybody needs to realise you don't understand the difference]

...

Groklaw is information, presented with links to proofs [ed: oh the hypocrisy of you saying this when you don't even link to Enderle's transcript, especially after you just misrepresented (or fabricated) what he said]

I mean, honestly PJ, you just see what you want to see. You don't even try and understand people. You just tell them what you wish they'd said, or what you think they've said, and then you blast them for your misinterpretations. You don't have to agree with Enderle (for the record, I don't agree with him either). But would it hurt you to try and understand his point of view? The world isn't black and white. He's not "evil" just because he has a different take on the matter.

In terms of propaganda there's no difference between SCO and Groklaw. One is the extreme left. The other is the extreme right. Difficult to say which is which though. Both camps are filled with extremists. They are both convinced that their side is right and the other side is wrong. They're both convinced they have "the facts" and the other side is lying, incompetent, mistaken, stupid, whatever.

But at the end of the day, both camps are more the same than they are different. They are both preaching to the faithful. Enderle preaching to SCOForum attendees. PJ preaching to Groklaw. Both camps will agree that their "leader" is correct and the other leader is wrong. Both camps will agree that they had the best arguments, the sincerest facts, the noblest goals. Hah!

One final point...

The site is supported by a marketing executive whose future is tied to the future of Linux and has strong political skills.

This is a non-subtle reference to PJ's employment with OSRM. Even if you disagree with everything else in Enderle's speech (and I disagree with most of what he said) you should at least pay attention to that one line. The relevant quote is "follow the money".

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:14 AM EDT
I think that I might be able to shed a unique light on Enderle's speech and Forum. Unlike probably everyone here except one or two people, I was actually there. Although SCO and Enderle probably might call me a Groklaw spy, I don't consider myself one. Everything that I say is my opinion on the situation. Also as a disclaimer, I do use SCO products, but don't take this as a pro-SCO post. I do have a vested interest in seeing SCO stick around, but I don't want them to do that at a cost to Linux.

Going into Forum, I really did think that SCO was the evil, delusional corporation that is so often portrayed here. During forum, I actually tried to open up and look at the situation from there eyes. I spoke, although briefly, to many of the characters I read about in press releases, court filings, etc. There wasn't a single person that I wouldn't mind sharing a drink with at a restaurant.

I honestly believe that they believe that they are right, that in some way or forum they have been wronged. I get the feeling however that they are either being restrained from saying/doing what they want, or are being controlled by a higher level. No I'm not talking about God, but rather Canopy maybe, or maybe by the lawyers.

No matter what your views are on IP law, our legal system is all that we have right now. SCO said several times that they just want their day in court. And they will have it, eventually. Yeah they are delaying things, but so is IBM. It's all just a legal cat-and-mouse game and likely happens in many complex legal cases. The wheels of justice do turn, albeit slowly. I haven't agreed with some of the decisions and paths that SCO has chooses to follow during the case, but I can't blame them entirely for screwing up. They are losing on both the legal and PR battle fronts and must constantly be changing their direction.

I sat in disbelief during Enderle's speech. I was amazed that someone who called himself "one of the most influential technology analysts in the world", that he just doesn't get it. Time and time again he proves that he doesn't get the difference between free and Free. But since he's not being paid to promote Free, he uses free for his arguments. Most of the speech comes in the forum of a rant that while, taken out of context may be correct, it is not correct on a whole.

Example:
Ever wonder who pays for things like Cancer Research and the grants that fund advanced research in Artificial Intelligence? Much of that comes from foundations funded by individuals and companies. The other very big investor is the Department of Defense. Otherwise known as the department that created smart bombs that seem to seldom actually hit their designated targets. Smart my ass...

Free software doesn't fund any of this; in fact it may not even be sustainable on a large scale.
I could probably do some research to disprove this, but there is a very readily available counter-argument. The Internet. FOSS powers the internet from DNS to Web to FTP to Usenet to e-mail. Much of the internet that we know owes it's existence to FOSS. SCO knows this. Just saying that FOSS doesn't contribute back to the community is baseless.

I did agree with one thing that Enderle did say. He said
Now I hear from the Linux folks that it is SCO that is the bad guy here taking away the rights of those that worked hard to contribute to Linux and to that I say Bull Shit. SCO, unlike the RIAA which is targeting kids, is going after large well funded companies who are perfectly able to take care of themselves. In all cases the firms being challenged have more resources and are larger than SCO.
That was the only thing that made a lot of sense in his speech. Many times in IP litigation, a company will target several smaller players in an attempt to build up a war chest as well as possibly set a precedent. PanIP attempted to do this a while back (do a Google or Slashdot search on PanIP to get the details). The smaller guys usually folds and pays up in order to avoid a costly legal battle that they may loose anyways. In the case with SCO though, the companies that they targeted are massive. They are fighting battles with companies that are use to litigation and have the resources to defend themselves.

On the keynote as a whole, I don't think SCO had a real clear picture as to how far Enderle was going. Talking with several attendees, we thought that he definitely didn't help SCO's position. His arguments were too far out there. If Groklaw is at one end of the spectrum (and it's not), then Enderle is completely on the other end with SCO some distance away from either. The use of profanity, while inappropriate in a keynote, didn't offend anyone. If you are offended by it, get your head out of the sand. My sister hears worse in her inner-city kindergarten classroom. Enderle's speech also went significantly over the line in it's attacks of Groklaw.

On a side note, I thought that Enderle was a poor presenter. He read his entire speech from a teleprompter. At several times he had to pause and ask that the prompter either be reversed or caught up. Also apparently a few characters were cut off and he would misread words, having to guess what the word was. All-in-all, SCO didn't get their money's worth.

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Time to remember this:
Authored by: jesse on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:32 AM EDT
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Ghandi

It seems we have arrived at the third stage...

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Mr. Enderle did not pay attention
Authored by: droth on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:35 AM EDT
A brief snippet from Mr. Enderle's speech on the SCO site:
I've always had a sense for bullshit and bullies and have never cared for either. In college, both graduate and undergraduate, I was fascinated with human behavior. I watched the tapes of the Nuremburg experiments that showcased how people put in positions of authority could be ordered to torture and kill other people and that the majority of those tested in the study failed the "humanity" test. Groups of people can do really bad things and not failing the humanity test became a personal goal. (emphasis mine)
Apparently he didn't pay too much attention while he was watching those tapes. They were the Milgram experiments, not "Nuremburg" experiments.

Also, he completely misses the point of the experiements. Dr. Milgram's experiment was about how ordinary people react to people in positions of authority, not how people in authority act. Also, the statement "groups of poeple can do really bad things" has nothing to do with the experiments. The experiments measured how individuals react to authority. Groups were never a factor.

So in one sentence he managed to get the name, methodology, and conclusions of one of the most important experiments in modern psychology wrong. Wow, I'm impressed.

Anyway, I read the rest of the speech. PJ is right; Enderle comes off sounding to me like a man gripped by paranoia.

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: irieiam on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:42 AM EDT
Not surprised and not impressed with this one. His love for metaphors is
clear...However his lack of getting to the point is more pronounced. Did he
actually say anything? Other than personal info that I neither need nor want to
know.

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Stowell says six-figure SCO-source for current quarter
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:05 AM EDT

"Stowell said that the company expected to announce "six-figure" revenue for SCOsource for its most recent financial quarter"

Sigh. Here we go again. So is that $9999.00 being six figures? Or has the EV1 income finally been booked?

Remember:

"SCO spokesman Blake Stowell declined to give the exact value of the deal but said it was worth at least $1 million."

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: greybeard on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:13 AM EDT
IMO Mr. E. is merely the latest imitation of "talk radio" and the
Sunday morning political scream-fests. They and Rob both dependent on:

[ 1] Absolute or near absolute control over the dialog. The proceess is
essentially a monolog, with some time for cheers from the audience, but no real
opportunity for considered replies or questioning the "facts"
presented. If, by chance, an inconvenient fact is introduced, the usual
response is to cream louder or change the subject.

[ 2] Constant changes of subject or position. Done frequently enough, the
thoughtful are always rebutting a previous assertion, never the current one.

[ 3] Extreme economy of factual information. Those facts that are inconvenient
are ignored. Those that are lacking, but of rhetorical use, are simple
asserted.

[ 4] A constant pose of "down home", just folks honesty despite the
arguments being tailored to, bought and paid for by large scale and decidedly
dishonest interests.

[ 5] Ratings and advertising are driven by audience. Careful argumentation and
research is not a big seller and besides, its more difficult to deliver the
sponsor's message if you have to stick to the facts. Speculation, sex, and
slander all sell. Face it; ol' Rob is an entertainer, not a technician or even
an analyst.

[ 6] There are no job requirements in terms of technical compentence, subject
matter knowledge, or analytical ability. The only requirement is can you get
someone to tune in, read, or click.

We should all be happy that he has moved on from his prior vocation(s). Can you
imagine him as your auditor? (If so, reread some of the nonsense that he has
spouted about verifying software) Would you like someone with so loose a grip on
reality and with such a certainty that he alone possesses insight into the truth
as a legal authority in your hometown?

The cold light of accumulating fact makes life hard for Rob. It is more
difficult to change the subject in the courtroom, though heaven knows, SCOG has
done pretty well.

"The mills of God..."



---
-greybeard-

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Rob actually did make a good point in there...
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:37 AM EDT
"I understand the need for those that are deeply political or religious to
misrepresent their opponents so that their own positions appear well founded. I
also believe the practice to be stupid, primarily because eventually the truth
does come out"

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Death threats
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:42 AM EDT
He seems to be under the impression that only SCO and its supporters are the
recipients of death (or other) threats. The vocal minority who resort to such
tactics are part of both sides unfortunately, but he harped on it for so much of
his speech, you'd think at least a quarter of us were stalking them, while their
supporters are of course pure angels.

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Rob Enderle, Groklaw user #354
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:43 AM EDT
OK, so who's the joker who registered at Groklaw under 'Rob Enderle'? C'mon, 'fess up this minute in the form of a posting.

In the absense of such a post I will be forced to assume that the handle is indeed owned by the inimitable Mr Enderle himself, hence the silence... or that PJ has banned it.

Waaaait a minute... indeed it is the real Enderle from 23 & 24 September. And of course, he left his mark. So I guess Rob is one of us Grokkers, after all.

Hmm, so I was right about the 'joker' bit.

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: muswell100 on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:54 AM EDT
Outwardly, it looks as if SCO must be truly scraping the dregs from the barrel
bottom if they think that posting the rantings of an apparently sewer-mouthed,
clueless ex-sheriff is going to do anything for their cause. This is probably
indicative of the fact that no reasonable, clear-headed person would even try to
argue SCO's case, leaving just the fruitcakes this bloke to fight in their
corner. Now here is a man who truly puts the 'anal' back into 'analyst'.

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Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 12:02 PM EDT
to paraphrase Thessalonians 2:10, the fate of liars is that they believe their
own lies..

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  • Link please - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 12:22 PM EDT
    • Link please - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:39 PM EDT
Hidden Message?
Authored by: kbwojo on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 12:14 PM EDT
Enderle excerpt: Groups of people can do really bad things and not failing the
humanity test became a personal goal.

Enderle Group + Sco Group = Groups
Enderle + McBride + Employees = People

Could he be telling us something?

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R.E. vs Bangular smackdown
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 12:17 PM EDT
Loath as I am to direct traffic to Linuxinsider, there is an interesting thread there that gives insight into RE. Look for the looooong to and fro started by 'bangular'. It is here, AFAIK, that RE first mentions the shotgun incident.

Also ironic to see Bangular taking R.E. to task for removing any mention of the words 'fired from IBM' from his posts :-)

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Enderle admits to history of unethical acts on behalf of MS et al
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 12:18 PM EDT
I went to the www.caldera.com SCO Forum page to read Enderle's speach. I don't
like to get my information through the prisim of other's biases.

He certainly appears to be good at forging loyalty with super rich and powerful
people by committing unethical acts ("wrong" was his exact word).
Reminded me of Ollie North (Regan calling self confessed criminal "a
hero" for his illegal acts).

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Rob Enderle - All Hat and No Cattle
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 12:42 PM EDT
Hey Rob, nice job painting SCO as a "victim". Unfortunately for you, this idiotic article will only be added to the long list of dumbass stuff you've said before to everyone's amusement.

Isn't it nice to know that 100 years from now when we all dead and people look back at this time in history, you will be a footnote to the chapter on the free software revolution. To them, you will be like one of the Vatican cardinals who attacked Galileo, except since your "power" is contained entirely in your ability to give "quotes on demand" rather than the authority of the church, they may not even note your actual name. Hey but at least you've ensured yourself a place in history! Even if it is as the loudest voice of the ignorance and ineptitude of a dying industry.

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I can't believe we're even discussing this
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 12:42 PM EDT

No disrespect to PJ, or the rest of Groklaw, (and I myself have posted a couple
of comments innthis story), but is there really anything worth discussing in
this Enderle speech? It's rubbish IMHO.

Even if there is something worth discussing in the speech, I can't believe it's
more important (or urgent) than:

1. Chris Sontag's and other SCO slide shows about SCO IP at
http://www.sco.com/2004forum/agenda/

2. Novell's motion to dismiss with prejudice, SCO's amended complaint

3. Whatever is happening with Daimler (and something apparently just did)

Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc


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Enderle exaggerates stupidity of Groklawers
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:17 PM EDT
It is obvious that Rob was exaggerating, he must have meant "border
deficiency", or "slow learner".


http://www.portaljuice.com/mental_deficiency.html

Modern educators use the terms educable, trainable, and profoundly mentally
handicapped instead of moron, imbecile, and idiot. In the 1950s, Wechsler
calibrated his IQ test as follows.

Wechsler adult IQ test (WAIS) were used in 1958:
class IQ
idiot <29
imbecile 30-49
moron 50-69
borderline deficiency 70-79

Simon / Binet Scale (1905)
The IQ Ranges and Their Interpretation
0-20 profoundly retarded
21-35 severely retarded
36-50 moderately retarded
51-70 mildly retarded
71-90 slow learner
91-110 average
111-120 above average
121-140 superior
141-160 very superior
161-180 gifted
181-200+ genius

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Rob Enderle understands California, dude.
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:29 PM EDT
You're using California as a positive example?? If ever there were a state of
fools...

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:31 PM EDT
I think his "keynote" presentation can really be summed up by his
closing remark:

"I'm Rob Enderle, and that, is my opinion."

Yes, it is his opinion -- an opinion that is by facts.

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Nick_UK on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:32 PM EDT
Well, it looks like caldera.com (where the speech was
hosted under the SCOForums link) is now showing the /.
effect of too many hits by too many people all at once.

Of course, we ALL know what will be in the news about
this, don't we?

Nick

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:33 PM EDT
>> ....why I took the incredible personal risk associated with supporting
SCO

You said it Rob boy.

>> There are people who get up every day, work a 9 to 5 and go home to
their families trading their lives for varying degrees of cash. In my view,
though clearly not theirs, they are selling their lives very cheaply. These are
wage slaves and the difference between people like that and a zombie is
generally lost on me

>> We have folks in the audience supporting Groklaw, they are probably
thinking they are fighting the good fight by reporting the "truth",
but they are only filtering what they see through their own bias and making it
harder for people who work for a living to make valid decisions

Erm, I didn't realise Zombies made valid decisions Rob?

>> I've always had a sense for bull*ç%&

Yup, have noticed this before.

>> I've been at the wrong end of a weapon

The idea of Rob Enderla at EITHER end of a weapon seems wrong somehow.....

>> Look at the countries where disagreement is unlawful, would any of us
want to live there?

Which countries would this be Rob? Homeland security USA?

>> SCO, unlike the RIAA which is targeting kids, is going after large well
funded companies who are perfectly able to take care of themselves.

Oh, so it's suddenly moral to steal from rich people? Rob,Rob, what shall we do
with you?

>> and even co-managed a completive analysis lab among other things (I
bore easily).

Maybe due to the inability to understand details? Like correct and incorrect?

>> You just have to look at Enron, WorldCom and Martha Stewart to get a
sense of how power unchecked can corrupt.

Marthy stewart? Come on Rob.

>> It is my belief that people and companies are now mining this software
for opportunities and then acquiring the intellectual property they will need to
"mine" Linux users at some future point, granted only well funded
non-government users.

Which will be perfectly moral, as we now know it's only immoral to steal from
poor people.

>> Isn't a time share always "used"?

Yeah, but in software,
"used"="tested"="fixed"="good" Rob.
Give my your address, I'll sponsor you a clue.

>> Free my a**.

No thanks Rob. Judging by how offensive your mouth appears to be, I daren't
imagine.....

>> I'm Rob Enderle, and that, is my opinion.

Wow.

I can't believe anyone would actually allow a speech like this to be published.
I mean I've delivered some bad speeches, but nothing as horrendously
unprofessional and incorrect as this, not even in kindergarten.

Rob, I can't even be angry with you. It seems you're simply not grasping the
issues here. Please read Groklaw, it'll help open your eyes.

Dude.

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Fishing trip anyone?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:37 PM EDT
Did anyone else get the impression that Enderle admitted that he believed SCO
needed to do a fishing expidition in discovery to find the evidence that they
originally claimed they already had? Also he claimed thet he had seen proof when
he met up with SCO of their case. If he saw proof then why does he acknowlege
the need for SCO to go fishing in the hope of turning up some evidence?

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: jim Reiter on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:42 PM EDT
Robby is right about one piece of free software,
Microsoft's Internet Explorer, but then even a dead clock
is right twice a day. This may mean that Robby has one more
coming.

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Reefer Madness
Authored by: kawabago on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:45 PM EDT
The language wasn't offensive, just unprofessional. What I found most
interesting was that he never actually said anything. He just alluded to evil
things that would befall anyone using free software. He never once stated any
fact on which he based his opinion. That is pure propaganda. I could not help
recalling the old anti-marijuana film Reefer Madness. Enderle's speech sounded
just like that propoganda film, now considered a classic comedy. I guess that's
how Enderle will be remembered, the clown who got fired a lot.

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Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: tredman on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:45 PM EDT
Wow. I mean...uh...wow. I haven't even been able to get halfway through the
comments, and I was compelled to go read what RE actually wrote.

I read it all, and...

...wow....uh....wow....

Never in my life have I seen such a shining and blatant example of arrogance and
self-grandiosity come out of a single person's mouth. It boggles the mind. The
words to properly describe what I feel about that poppycock just will not come
off my fingers and find the keyboard.

What blows me away even more is that, with a little cleaning up, a couple of
paragraphs tweaked here and there, and a scrubbing of the whole "my life is
a dangerous mess because I speak my mind" soliloquy, this rant could have
just as easily been written in favor of F/OSS instead of against it. It's
absolutely amazing how he goes to such great lengths to paint a picture of TSG
as the victim. It's an insult to victims everywhere.

After reading his description of the Linux community in general and
Groklaw-sters specifically, I feel so very dirty. He makes the whole lot of us
sound like a gang of street thugs with no self-worth or intelligence at all.
I'm an amateur writer, among other things, but if I were to ever write
professionally, remind me never to let Rob contribute a foreward to my book
introducing the author.

As a father of two and devoted husband with a mortgage, having a job I love, no
arrests on my record, and not so much as a traffic ticket in the last five
years, I hate knowing that my love for open source software and Linux is such a
subversive crime and the reason why our country is going to fall to the ground
in a penniless heap.

I'm so ashamed, and...

...what the...what's this? Hey, look, a pig feather. They must be migrating.
Better cover your head and keep the car in the garage.

Tim

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Mac guys on Rob Enderle
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:46 PM EDT
Thought you might like some links/quotes:

http://daringfireball.net/2003/12/enderle
"Enderle is both:

* Frequently quoted in major mainstream media
* Nearly always completely wrong (at least regarding Apple)

One would hope these two facts would be mutually exclusive ? that a
self-professed industry expert whose pronouncements about Apple were nearly
always wrong would eventually stop being asked for his opinion about the company
and its products."

http://macartisan.typepad.com/cupertino/2003/12/dvorak_the_next.html
"If you keep abreast of news in the computer sector, you will be hard
pressed to avoid Rob. He manages to get quoted in at least half of the articles
posted by the mainstream tech reporters. In fact, I think CNET's corporate
mission statement, in its entirety, is 'We shall post no article without calling
Enderle for a quote'.

"The odd part is that he manages this trick while apparently giving less
thought to technology than I give to my choice of breakfast cereal."


http://archive.scripting.com/2002/02/28#l8cc01248cdde723b471abbc4e251e3e7
"Enderle's presence is a warning sign. I see a quote from him I get the
message. The reporter is out of ideas and has decided to cut corners."

Enderle was named the man to have made the "Worst Prediction for 2003"
by MacMegasite:
http://www.macmegasite.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1219


http://archive.scripting.com/2002/03/02#assemblylineJournalism
Got a couple of emails from Rob Enderle ... See how the mind of a quote mill
works. 1300 quotes per year. I guess he counts.

http://essaysfromexodus.scripting.com/stories/storyReader$1541"Michael
Williams: 'That guy has always struck me as all hat and no cattle. Drives me
nuts to see him quoted as an 'expert.' I'd be shocked if he's ever installed
anything more than Windows on a laptop or written any code other than pseudo in
an e-mail.'

"John Robb: 'The guy is a carpetbagger quotemill of the worst sort. Nobody
ever called him on it until today.'

"Joe Rotello: 'Why don't we just replace him with a large switch marked
OFF, and be done with it.'"

[ Reply to This | # ]

He's not confused...
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:46 PM EDT
--- To illustrate his confusion, Enderle mentions several types of "free software" and the first example he uses is Gain.---

This isn't confusion. This is another method of attack. Get people that aren't in tune with the situation to associate free software with adware and trojans. It's the same method of misdirection and confusion that the record industry just used to convince the state AG's that P2P networks are evil and should be outlawed. News Article

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rant for Rent Rob Requiem
Authored by: Tim Ransom on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:51 PM EDT
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Wow! Positively surreal!
Call CSI - I think someone tampered with one of Rob's drinks.
I wouldn't be surprised if he woke up a little saddle sore ;)

---
Thanks again,

[ Reply to This | # ]

Free software
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:52 PM EDT
I glanced over the speech and came across the section of free software.

I wonder if his remarks apply to Microsoft Internet Explorer?

Microsoft distributes their browser for free. Prior to then, if memory servers,
Netscape used to charge for their browser. Netscape couldn't compete until they
made thier browser free too. Microsoft now commands, what... 90-95% of the
browser market?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Missing the point. On purpose?
Authored by: dracoverdi on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 01:53 PM EDT
I read the Enderle speach because I wanted to see what he was saying, for
myself. My first response is that either he really is incapable of understanding
why people would want to make, and fix their own software or he's being
deliberately obtuse by perpetuating this stupid pun about the word
"free".

I'm not a corporate executive, or a lawyer, or a millionaire, but I have written
many lines of code (sadly, in the dead FORTRAN 77 language) and I see a
continuing attempt by corporate America and many non-corporate Americans to
avoid doing things for themselves and to keep others from being able do things
themselves.

Commercial electronic appliances used to include a schematic. Radios,
oscilloscopes, even refrigerators used to come with them; sometimes they were
glued inside the case, because it was expected that you would need to repair the
appliance in the future. Not anymore, because nobody expects you to try to fix
it, just replace it with the next model. Before the concept of
“commercial-off-the-shelf” licensing, military software procurement guidelines
required source code, procedure for compiling and documentation to be included
as part of the product. The idea was that somebody would need to maintain the
code in the future. How quaint.

The thing I like most about "Free" software is the code, the ability
to independently maintain the software product item I get instead of praying
that the next version of proprietary software will fix known bugs, but not
remove features or "improve" the user interface so that it is
unusable.

Imagine a whole line of food products that provided not only the ingredients but
the recipe on the label. Wouldn’t this be madness? Wouldn’t people stop buying
the product and just make their own? Wouldn't competitors just copy your recipe
and put you out of business? I don't think so. I make my own beer, and many beer
recipes are readily available in books, on the internet, and from beer making
clubs, But most people don't make their own beer, even though it is usually
cheaper and vastly better tasting; even though you can learn to make it easily
with inexpensive equipment. Many beer recipes that are fun and easy for
hobbyists would be impractical for a commercial venture. Commercial beer makers
are very careful to protect their recipes and procedures from competitors and
yet, the best selling American beers, at least, are almost identical in cost and
taste - how would publishing their recipe possibly affect competition?

My wife is a very talented beader. She does this as a hobby. She creates
wonderful sculptural beadwork from her own original designs (fish, kittens,
dragons etc.). Since a lot of it is jewelry, people often ask her where she got
it. They are surprised and depressed when she tells them she made it herself.
Usually they ask if she sells her work, and then she has to explain that it
takes hours of work and that to make it worth her while, she would have to
charge thousands of dollars for each piece. She’s experimented with teaching
classes on how to make the sculptures but they are complex and made with very
small beads so you would have to be an accomplished beader to profit from the
class. People ask her why she doesn’t start a business without understanding
that the market for really expensive intricate beadwork would be hard to tap, if
it could found, and more importantly her hobby is beading, not bead business
management. Even teaching beading is a different discipline from beading. She
likes making unique projects for herself and friends for no profit, for the fun
and fulfillment of it. She's OK with not making a bundle off it because
accumulation of wealth is not her hobby.

Our view of the value of creating a thing for our own use verses developing a
product as merchandise affects our understanding of it. First, much of the
freedom in free software is freedom for the “makers and fixers”, not necessarily
for the users. People who use but don’t write software may miss the point since
they don’t see the value being able modify the source. (They still may benefit
from new flavors of software that wouldn’t exist if they had to come from a
business, of course, but that’s more like the other kind of “free”).

Second, many people who make their living marketing a product, over-emphasize
the value of the product by itself. People don’t realize how hard it is to make
a profitable business even if you have a good product. A better mouse trap, all
by itself, will attract more mice than customers. I think we give the
"Intellectual Property" too much credit and the business plan too
little credit.

Finally, I think Mr Enderly is a “BIG picture guy” who doesn’t see that many of
us “wage slaves” excel at home, for friends and family-with sometimes astounding
results-making great beer, or marvelous beaded jewelry, or elegant code, because
he has trouble valuing something that doesn’t generate a revenue stream. He
doesn’t even comprehend the freedom to make things because he’s focused on the
freedom to sell things.


---
The best tasting beer isn't free. It's home brewed.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:05 PM EDT
It seems Mr. Enderle's hypocricy has few limits...

"I have a serious problem with people who are abusive, particularly those who use any excuse to cross the line into physical, emotional or verbal abuse."

I suppose, then, Mr. Enderle must be removing his own skins about now - repulsed by his abusive and beligerent nature.


I would like to thank Mr. Enderle and SCO for making this speech public. I beleive it goes to show exactly what the problem with closed source software is.

Like people, software can be misleading. What someone tells you they are is often not the case.

Take Mr. Enderle for instance, who boasts; "If you've looked at my BIO you know I've been ranked number one in influence for most of the last decade."
Hearing that, you would think this was a well rounded individual with positive things to say. But, this appears to be far from the case given his speech. About half way through, I decided this guy would rank better as a comic.

With FOSS, people _know_ what they're getting _IF_ they choose simply to look. The oppertunity presents itself, FOSS is what it is - there are no suprises.

Though, I do think it's funny that as I'm telling this to an admin at a local school - he's busy blocking out the DNS for SCO.com. It seems the content of SCO's corporate site was just a tad much for the JR. High students to be reading.

I think PJ took his speech a little too seriously. I think it's great he had the speech - I'd LOVE to see it on the nightly news - *beeps* and all! I think Mr. Enderle is a great influence for the FOSS community and, in my opinion, is representative to that which I have come to expect from SCO.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Please post Enderle's Keynote on Groklaw
Authored by: StLawrence on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:19 PM EDT
I think a copy of Rob Enderle's keynote address should be posted on Groklaw
in its entirety, without any editorial comments. SCO has complained that
Groklaw only presents one side, and that Groklaw filters pro-SCO comments.
So let's bend over backwards to demonstrate to SCO that we want to be
even-handed and present the facts and the truth, and allow readers to draw
their own conclusions from ALL the material available. Mr. Enderle's speech
may contain some subjective opinions, but an important part of the truth is
that Mr. Enderle said the things that he said. Let's help SCO spread the word
about what it is they want to say.

If someone needs to approach SCO to get their permission to post the things
that they have truly said, I would be willing to approach them. Let me know...

[ Reply to This | # ]

I am a victim of GrokLaw!
Authored by: Totosplatz on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:32 PM EDT

Boo hoo!

But here is the Enderle game plan, spelled out as clear as Dawn Striking Marblehead: If you've been watching, companies are slowly moving to acquire IP and they appear to be planning on recouping that investment at some future time. With Open Source software you can see, in great detail, what makes the products tick and this makes discovery relatively simple. It is my belief that people and companies are now mining this software for opportunities and then acquiring the intellectual property they will need to "mine" Linux users at some future point, granted only well funded non-government users.

So there it is, folks, all that IP is just hangin' out in the breeze, so steal it, patent it at will, and then "mine" it (ie sue over it) at will!

I find it to be rather amusing that he also states that with Open Source "discovery [is] relatively simple"! What a hoot. Don't these guys ever keep their stories straight? I thought that having all code made it take 25,000 man years to discover anything within it!

---
All the best to one and all.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Yeah - Authored by: Jude on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:01 PM EDT
    • Yeah - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:37 PM EDT
Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Mark_Edwards on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:33 PM EDT
>I hope Mr. Enderle will come to his senses and do the
right thing. If he's a gentleman, he will. Because if he's
in his right mind, doesn't suffer from hardening of the
arteries, and was not drinking, he really should apologize
for what he said about Groklaw.

Sorry PJ but this won't happen soon..

I remember being on one of the eweek discussion
boards over a year ago (around the time he claimed all
linux users were terrorists) with a few others talking to
Mr Enderle and to be quite honest it was talking to a
plank of wood (Sorry to any actual planks of wood that can
see this :) ).

People would point out errors in his statements
and he would get all defensive.

Others would ask him questions about his believes
and almost all his answers would answer some other
question and the rest of the time you would get the good
old "I'm an analysist so know better than you"

I remember him claiming to be in contact with Darl
either weekly or monthly getting all the facts (lol. Darl
telling facts. Maybe one day we may see some actual facts
from his mouth) from SCO's side. You could tell he loved
telling everyone that they were wrong and how strong a
case SCO has.

Anyway at the end of the day the man is an Idiot
and while Microsoft & SCO are paying him I doubt that will
change any time soon..

Mark.

PS. Nice article PJ !


[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM and ROLM
Authored by: kenryan on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:33 PM EDT

Out of curiosity I started reading Enderle's speech.

Just for grins I took a random one of his assertions and did a quick Google search...

Enderle says he wne to work at ROLM in 1991. Clearly there was some IBM affiliation there, given his subsequent statements.

Then he says: "I had in writing that IBM would not buy the firm, IBM made public statements to this effect, and 4 months after I joined ROLM they broke that agreement."

According to numerous links found via Google, it appears IBM bought ROLM in 1984. IBM sold ROLM to Siemens in 1992< /a>.

I'll grant that I wasn't paying attention to the telecom field during those years, so details escaped me and I didn't spend the time to find more substantial information on the ROLM-IBM relationship (other than some opinions that it was not a good relationship).

So why would IBM be making Enderle promises about not buying ROLM in 1991 - IBM owned it for 7 years, and may well have already been in talks to sell it! Perhaps the ROLM employees were really concerned that IBM was selling their company?

Or did Enderle simply not even bother checking the facts of his own life history? Kinda makes me wonder about the sheriff and head-of-HR stories...

---
ken
(speaking only for myself)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle's Mental Status
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:42 PM EDT
I would like to offer an opinion concerning Rob Enderle's mental status.

Before doing that, I would like to say a little about myself so that you may
properly evaluate my qualifications (or lack thereof) for making such an
evalution.

On the positive side, I have two degrees in psychology, with two years of
graduate clinical training, two courses in psychological evaluation. I have also
worked as a researcher at a psychiatric hospital. I also was the person who
first (as far as I can tell) suggested on Groklaw that Darl McBride is a
sociopath.

On the negative side, I have only about half the training needed to be a
licensed psychologist, and have been out of the field for several decades.

With that in mind, here is my opinion about Rob Enderle. I believe that he is
probably suffering from a mental illness. More specifically, I think that he is
in the early stages of paranoid schizophrenia. There are several characteristics
of his speech that signal this to me, including his rigid division of the world
into villains, victims, and heros, his description of himself as a hero
victimized by vilains, and his rambling discussion of personal matters not
relevant to the matter at hand.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:52 PM EDT
And he likes to talk about guns, too; what a hoot at a party, eh?

jeff

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: George_Wa_State on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 02:59 PM EDT
It looks to me like Mr Enderle misunderstands a lot
of things in/about life.

In his article he states that he uses a product that
uses Linux that filters commercials from his TV
watching. I wonder .....

... Has Mr. Enderle sent his check for $699.99 to
SCO, so that he can use Linux without fear of being
sued yet? If not when will SCO send him a "warning"
letter about it?

Or do "friends" of SCO not need one?

Hum ......

George

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some "minor" factual errors (!not)
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:04 PM EDT

From Enderle's speech

SCO, unlike the RIAA which is targeting kids, is going after large well funded companies who are perfectly able to take care of themselves.

Er, excuse me. Isn't this the SCO who wants $699 (introductory price, as I recall the "normal" price was supposed to go to $1399) for ANY commercial linux server (not all "commercial" users are "large, well funded companies who are perfectly able to take care of themselves" -- many are mom and pop operations) (that is the single CPU price, add about 50% for each additional CPU) along with a $199 (introductory price) per desktop, and who want's to add $32 to the price of my, my kid's, and most other people's cell phone, PDA, hand held game, automobile electronics system, and a zillion other products via their $32 per embedded Linux device initiative. And, do I really have any reason whatever to believe that these fees would have been limited to commercial users, had the initial extortion scheme been successful.

C'mon Bob. Your blurb is a gross under-representation as to the targets of the SCO shakedown. SCO is a shakedown operation which is absolutely worthy of every bit hate and contempt thrown at it. As a misrepresentor of the facts, as indicated above, and a defender of this shakedown operation (posing a journalist, no less), you are worthy of exactly the same contempt.

Wally Bass

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: pooky on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:06 PM EDT
Wow that man hates IBM and Groklaw. I must conclude from his ranting about
Groklaw that he reads it regularly and is offended by it in the extreme, or
possibly more to the point offended by comments made about him and his
opinions.

What can be said, the truth hurts when your in the wrong. No matter how you
slice it, Rob Enderle is a hypocrite, plain and simple. He lauds SCO as the
little guy and hates "schoolyard bullies" but seems to be fine with
the tactics SCO is using, which is the cause of most people's hatred of them. So
the rest of the world is wrong and you are right Enderle? Uh no, try again.

What SCO is doing is the equivalent of brandishing a gun in a crowd and yelling
at everyone "Do what I say or I'll shoot you!"

If Enderle thinks I'm wrong, I invite him to explain his opinion and support of
SCO given the light that they won't show mountains of evidence they claim to
have, have contradicted themselves numerous times, are lying to judges in
different venues about the other cases, on and on. How exactly is this taking
the high ground?

Post if you dare Rob.

-pooky

---
Veni, vidi, velcro.
"I came, I saw, I stuck around."

[ Reply to This | # ]

"Memorandum in Support of Novell's Motion to Dismiss" as text
Authored by: Griffin3 on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:15 PM EDT
Well, as HTML. How do I send this to PJ? I can stuff it in one of these boxes,
but, it will mangle it ...

/me winces in worries of slashdotting ->
http://griffin3.com/20040806_novell_mtd.htm

[ Reply to This | # ]

I have to comment...
Authored by: regrok on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:24 PM EDT
I am not content with being silent.

I have read the keynote address by Rob Enderle. Rob is obviously a passionate, intelligent and opinionated person with a variety of experience. From his speech, I suspect that he is not accustomed to having people dispute his viewpoint. I personally am of the opinion that his passion and pride overbalance his intelligence (= arrogance).

I, like PJ, am also annoyed at his need to be crass and vulgar. Shock value is something that someone of his intelligence doesn't need and it detracts from what he has to say.

What is most disturbing is the inconsistency in the insight. He offers some excellent insights and mingles them with faulty, uninformed, one-sided reasoning and commentary. It leaves you with a mix of passionate support, jaw dropping amazement, confusion and disgust. All in all, quite disturbing.

I can understand and respect the position of PJ in not providing the link to the talk, but I think that reading the speech is valuable if for no other reason than to understand how uninformed some very influential people are concerning free software. I had a little trouble finding it but got to the speech by searching http://www.caldera.com/2004forum.

I have to respond to some of the things that were said.

Now I know that some of you are rapidly writing your own "rough interpretation" of what I am saying for Groklaw and have your hands poised over the FUD keys. I find this ironic given Groklaw is an Anti-SCO FUD propaganda site but I understand the need for those that are deeply political or religious to misrepresent their opponents so that their own positions appear well founded. I also believe the practice to be stupid, primarily because eventually the truth does come out, but I still understand it.

Not "rough interpretation". Groklaw almost always points to the original source for people to make their own observations. The commentary on the original is always logical, well thought out and thought provoking. It is opinionated, but with sound basis and documentation and the opinions are generally clearly identified. This is exactly why I enjoy reading the site.

People who misrepresent things due to their passion for an opinion are easier to spot due to vague allegations and volatile wording associated with their comments. (much like that found in the speech to point out some hypocrisy) I would also add that some people who have already formed their opinions on a topic, refuse to try to understand the point of view of their "enemies" and end up looking ridiculous trying to debunk viewpoints that they can't reiterate correctly.

There are people who get up every day, work a 9 to 5 and go home to their families trading their lives for varying degrees of cash. In my view, though clearly not theirs, they are selling their lives very cheaply. These are wage slaves and the difference between people like that and a zombie is generally lost on me. Do you realize that many, I'm not saying all or even most, of the Linux supporters are like this, they have never coded anything in their lives, have never even played a video game, in fact the only reason they are supporting Linux is because it is a cause and their life lacks one. That is an incredibly sad group of folks, and I wonder what their reaction will be when they finally understand they are supporting software and not the second coming.

OK. That hit the mark that Rob was looking for. I do resent the description. In my response, please excuse the narrow-mindedness that resulted from my irritation.
I work 9 to 5, but I understand that I have voluntarily made tradeoffs of security for the moment to take care of my family. I have my wife and 5 children and make sure to "have a life" with them. Without the "wage slaves" like myself, contributing to the work of my company, their would be only the dreamers and power mongering pit bulls fighting over the scraps of society and wallowing in a pathetic quality of life. I contribute the actual work of my hands to the benefit of society, not waste my life playing a shell game with the fruits of the labor of other people and leaching the "wage slave" to support my standard of living. I would rather live among a hard working people trying to figure out how to organize themselves than among power mongering executives with no one to abuse.

My life is quite rich and I definitely don't qualify as "zombie". I do code. I do work for a major corporation and support my company. I do support Linux and believe in the cause because I want my kids to have an open environment to thrive in, not an intellectually stiffled new style corporate feudal state to live in where you can't develop an idea without being forced to sell out to an intellect mogul.

My little rant being done and all that being said, I have, of course, worked with many truly good upper management people in my time who have a clue.

This is what I refer to as the big company disease. It has its roots in power and the lack of oversight on it, it flourishes when measurements and personal goals are in conflict with the conscience of the company and it can do terrible damage when any member or group gains too much power over another. You saw the extreme of this when you viewed the pictures of that prison in Iraq.

Excellent insight to keep in mind. ...and yet these corporations are who you want to own all the intellectual property?

If someone tells you something is free they are probably lying, and you should place one hand securely on your wallet. In the example above the "free vacation" actually costs relatively valuable vacation time, if you buy the damn thing you paid a premium for it, and you are now on a list that will result in unwanted calls that will continue into the late evening until you die. Free my *.

Pathetic. A true cynic who has seen too much misery to believe in happiness.

Air is free. Rain is free. The seedlings that pop up in my garden are free. The insight that I receive talking with my friends and family is free. The work of my own hands is free.
He has lived too long in a place where everything must be captured and owned. Where greed is more important than happiness.

Air is free, but I have to pay for an air filter because some twit fouled the air in my neighborhood. That doesn't mean that the air wasn't free to start with. Rain is free, but I still pay for that bottle and the city to pipe it to my house. I accept those things because I enjoy the convenience of not having to collect the "free" things all by myself.

Knowledge (Read Intellectual Property here) is free.

But we as a society have accepted the establishment of the tax of patent and copyright to provide for someone to document the knowledge for our easy access and find applications for that knowledge to make our lives better.

The right of ownership of knowledge did not come first! The continued rights of ownership of knowledge are only at the discretion of society (including the masses of "zombie wage slaves"). If the ownership is abused by extending the power of the ownership for greed to the extent that it starts to inhibit the benefit to society, society must push the rights back or wallow in stagnation under a corporate dictatorship.

Many states have a lottery. What does it produce? It sucks money out of the poorest sectors and frees up educational funds to be redirected to pet projects. It costs money to run. Does is actually produce any benefit? Not really. It just becomes a vice and a leach on society.
At what point do companies become leaches on society like the lottery? Is sitting on IP and suing everyone for IP that was purchased (if it was actually purchased) really providing incentive to produce more ideas and progress?
Free software is about NOT paying every company a tax because they bought a right to an idea. It is about people that believe in making the quality of life better. Make it cheaper for companies and individuals to be productive. Put more money in people's pockets and lower the price of products. Provide something for the populace without hoarding billions of their money. People who come up with ideas don't want to play the game anymore of being paid a pittance to watch their ideas be used by a monopoly to bleed the society dry. They would give away their work and creativity for free just to see it benefit society. They care. They have rejected cynicism and greed. They would stand against the people who would make them "zombie wage slaves".
Free software is about sharing what has been invented so that people don't waste the time to re-invent it a thousand times over.

Free software producers get paid for the support they give, the work of their own hands. They enjoy the honest work for their pay. They are no longer interested in fueling the market of buying and selling ideas and strangling the public good out of them.

Patents and copyright serve their purpose just like unions do. But when the balance disappears they need to be checked. If a union runs a company into bankruptcy, did it truly serve it's purpose? If patents and copyrights cease to benefit society shouldn't they be pruned back?

A piece of advice from someone that did this for a living for awhile, watch the judge, don't focus on either side. The judge will decide the case and that is where the real action is.

Absolutely! And where will you find the text of what the judge has said? Groklaw. Some opinions and logical commentary will be found there too.
If you want only biased opinions about what was said with inferences and without context, try SCO website.

I do think that the judge will work it all out. I personally hope that it does not go to SCO, because, in this one instance, I think that IBM is the one that has the clue on not strangling society to feed their greed.

To the SCO employees in the audience, Carpe Diem folks, continue to make a difference, to the SCO investors and supporters, you are in good company sometimes; being on the right side doesn't mean being on the popular side, and to the folks in the audience who are just here to slam the company, buy a clue, it's the best money you will ever spend.

Buy a clue. Good advice. He should take it. Money would be well spent on a therapist too. (If he is reading this) Seriously. He needs someone to check reality with, to challenge the arrogance.

As a side note - just because you hate a company that you have personally seen to wrong in the past doesn't mean that they are on the wrong side this time. Let the facts and the judge speak for themselves. Sometimes the popular one IS the right one.

My apologies for the length of the comment. The topic struck a chord.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:26 PM EDT
Let me start by saying I read Enderle's speach, and yes, the guy is an idiot and
full of _crap_, and not only with regards to FOSS either.

BUT....

why the self righteous outrage about the couple of minor swear words? Forget the
swear words, that's not the big deal about his speach; the big deal is the BS he
was spouting. Lets keep the focus on that. Sorry P.J., but i find the focus on
(was it 2 swear words?) trivial and not worthy of mention. Why did you make such
a big deal out of it?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Superbiskit on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:34 PM EDT
I hope Mr. Enderle will come to his senses and do the right thing.
A cup of hemlock, please.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: The_Pirate on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:46 PM EDT
I might get beaten up now.... but i actually feel sorry for this guy.

If he really believes the stuff he's launching, it is something to worry about.
It's _very_ long time since i was looking at psychology, so i'm probably wrong
here, but in my unskilled amateur estimate, mr. E. could be suffering from
schizophrenic paranoia.

It seems to add up. His ramblings, focusing on irelevant things, frequent job
changes (never his own fault), the feelings that nobody understands him and
"they" want to kill him...

Somehow i think this guy should not have a gun permit. But, as a European, i do
not understand U.S. gun laws. I don't think many of us do...

Does anybody here know enough on psychology to either confirm or debunk my
amateurish theory?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:50 PM EDT
Wow.... What a fruitcake. ( just read his .. whatever that is )

Like the madman screaming DOOOOOOOM in the streets.
"I KNOW YOU ARE THERE. (groan). I KNOW YOU ARE LISTING GROKLAW. I SeeEEEE
you. Whoohaaa hahaa hhaaaaa. uuuu CAN'T FOOL ME.. WHohaaaaahahha ahaaa"

What a raving paranoia loonatic.
If I didn't know it I could have never believed this is real.

It did me in good, I'm going beddybye !.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Now, what was Rob Enderle's talk about?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:53 PM EDT
I did hop over to SCOG's site to read Enderle's address. Care to know what it was all about? Probably not what you think. How about looking at the frequency of appearance of a few key words?

244 I/me/my
34 Linux
33 IBM
31 SCO
12 Microsoft
8 Groklaw

Talk about a guy who's full of himself!


meneldur

[ Reply to This | # ]

Ad Hominem
Authored by: EvilBill on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:54 PM EDT
Say it with me now, "Ad Hominem."

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Ad Hominem - Authored by: EvilBill on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:13 PM EDT
  • Snort - Authored by: PeteS on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 07:41 AM EDT
This made me chuckle
Authored by: khelek on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:57 PM EDT

Yes, I have to admit, I was morbidly curious as to what Mr. Enderle had to say in his keynote address. What I found was that the language he used was the least offensive thing about it....

I just found the whole thing quite disgusting and honestly couldn't finish reading it. I did find this little gem quite humorous, though:

With Open Source software you can see, in great detail, what makes the products tick and this makes discovery relatively simple.

Wow, Rob, amidst the lies, confusion, and outright FUD, you managed to say something truthful! You're right, the fact that Open Source allows anyone to see exactly what's in the code should make discovery simple. You shouldn't need every single AIX/Dynix release ever created at IBM and the next 10 years to dig through it....a simple comparison between the Unix source code TSG owns (if any, I have no clue) and the Linux kernel will tell you what they have in common, then you can strip away whatever code is publicly available/usable (public domain/*BSD/etc), and if anything's left, that's what TSG can take before the judge and can say it's theirs.

You said it yourself, Rob, it should be relatively simple. So tell me, why do you suppose TSG is having such a hard time coming up with the information the Judge has requested? Could it be...Saaaatan? Ha!! You wish!

Or could it be because there is no infringing code in Linux and because TSG doesn't have a case? Do you think? Obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't have presented your inane drivel. They've never had one, and repeating to yourself and others that they do isn't going to change that fact. No matter how hard you believe pigs can fly isn't going to make them sprout wings.

I found the speech just...sad. If I'd paid to be at that conference, I'd want my money back. There was nothing encouraging there. It was nothing more than Groklaw and Free Software bashing. It reminds me of one Easter I went with a friend to a church in a different denomination than mine. The pastor essentially got up and spent the 30 min. bashing Catholics. I walked out of there having gotten nothing out of the sermon. I hope that's how the attendees at SCOForum felt and let someone know about it. I think that Rob would be the first to agree that these are people who work for a living. It's a shame they wasted their money and time on this.

Brian

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 03:59 PM EDT
If you feel that Rob is bogus, rides Microsoft/Intel coat tails, and sells
bullshit to sheep, drop him a line:

renderle@enderlegroup.com

Let me clarify the sheep word. 99% of Rob's customers are not tech savy. They
haven't a clue, they are confused by technology and do not have the desire or
time to become savy, so people like Rob exploit this, and become sheep herders.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle
Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:07 PM EDT
I just read Enderle's speech.

The thing that impressed me most was how most of it was about him and his
adventures. Very little was about SCOG and the merits of their position or the
dangers of Free software.

One thing that came through loud and clear was a visceral hatred of IBM.

I am more than a little puzzled by many of his statements like IBM's attempt to
co-opt Windows OS/2, and AIX. I'm not sure how you co-opt your own products,
perhaps someone could explain to me what he meant by that.

I have attended many conferences and this is one of the strangest keynote
speeches I've ever heard about.

---
Rsteinmetz

"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • OS/2 etc - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:06 PM EDT
Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:47 PM EDT
I hope this speech is widely publicized. It is so clearly irrational that it
will help discredit the anti-open source campaign. The more people read it, the
better for open source.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:47 PM EDT
...told by and idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Or, in 21st Century parlance: Meh.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Munich
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:54 PM EDT
Munich to delay Linux deployment only two or three weeks:

link

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:55 PM EDT
SCOG and Rob Enderle's paranoia about groklaw spies is hysterically funny to me:
this paranoia says much about the extent to which they have lost control of
events. In Antiquity, a mighty Persian emperor (is there any other kind of
Persian emperor?) got so fed up with Scythian incursions that he led a military
expedition agaisnt them. The Scythians wouldn't stand and fight, preferring
instead to harass from horseback the daylights out of his column. Finally, after
taking heavy cumulative losses, the Persian emperor sent a message to the
Scythians, ordering them to stand and fight. Their reply: "go weep!"
And they harassed him all the back to the Persian borders.

To SCOG and Rob Enderle: "go weep!"

[ Reply to This | # ]

Works for us.
Authored by: Franki on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 04:56 PM EDT
I just read Robs speech, and he is certainly full of himself, and seems to have
no idea what open source (and "free") actually means, but I think his
little speech might actually work in OSS's favour.

He mentioned Groklaw enough so that anyone leaving the SCOforum (that hasn't
already seen groklaw) will probably rock on over to see what he was talking
about.

While some of the comments here don't really help the cause. (my own comments
sometimes included) the articles themselves certainly help us. So I suspect that
Robs behaviour, in combination with the facts on groklaw might just convert a
few over to our cause.. not to mention that he called SCO fools because they
ship "free" software. Ironically, if you remove ALL "free"
open source software from SCO UNIX, what exactly can it do? Webserver? nope,
Windows connectivity? nope, MTA? lets see, mmdf and sendmail.... nope! and so on
and so on... very ironic indeed.

It is certainly a shame that there is not a clause in the GPL to the effect that
any company litigating against a GPL product has no right to distribute any GPL
product, SCO's UNIX products would be mostly useless to most of their
"customers" overnight.

Rgds

Franki



---
Is M$ behind Linux attacks?
http://htmlfixit.com/index.php?p=86

[ Reply to This | # ]

Enderle's speech - The "Executive" Summary
Authored by: JeR on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 05:34 PM EDT
I have written a one-line-per-paragraph "executive" summary of
Enderle's incredible speech. I have added the original headings to give you some
clue as to what paragraph I am summarising. As this summary also lacks a lot of
clarity, I am sure Enderle will sue me shortly for the infringement of both his
structures and his methods, respectively.

Here it is:
------------------------------------------------
[Free Software and the Idiots who Buy it]
Hi, I am Rob Enderle and I am going to explain what bias is.
I have been working very hard rewriting this speech during the last 24 hours.
I understand that Groklaw is going to see this speech and I resent that.
I consider Linux to be a free software scam.

[We'll start with a not so brief background]
I am very influential and I can explain things very well.

[Like a hot knife through butter, who knew?]
One's experience is not just important to oneself, but also to others.
I don't know what drives wage slaves and I reckon any Linux supporters are among
those.
Groklaw's members are victims of the propaganda of one company, OSRM.
I know Groklaw's spies are among us, right here and right now.
Groklaw's spies in the audience should be ashamed of themselves.
There's no point in expressing your views and you shouldn't force them upon
others.
Groups of people can unwittingly do really bad things.
Linux supporters have formed a "hate group".
The "hate group" attacks SCO by destroying livelihoods and making
physical threats.
Some people actually carry out their threats.
I used to carry a firearm, but in hindsight I needn't have done that.
Then I stopped carrying a firearm because of an ugly incident with a firearm at
work.
I don't like any kind of abuse.
Experience with violence apparently doesn't make people stop being violent.
You should only openly attack people you disagree with when you know you are
right.
I am focusing on Linux zealots because we need to stand up for the alternative
view.

[Standing up for SCO and Microsoft]
I stood up for SCO because I want to uphold SCO's rights.
SCO is not doing anything wrong because it only attacks big companies with lots
of money.
SCO has the right to find out whether it is right about its rights.
I got involved with SCO when I spoke out against the use of Linux because I was
bored.
I worked on it for weeks, but it was never published.
I was asked to write a column so I rewrote it and got it published.
At the time I was the editor of a Linux newsletter at IBM which questioned SCO's
claims.
I knew Linux was an unauthorised copy of UNIX in 1994 but there was no money in
it at the time.
I have a Microsoft bias, as every analyst must have some kind of bias.
I have a deep relationship with Microsoft since they got me out of trouble
once.
I would have lost my job and entire carreer if Bill Gates had not come to my
defense.
Steve Ballmer helped me keep my job at one time as well.
I want to work for Microsoft, but I wasted my only chance with them a long time
ago.

[Why I look at IBM differently than you likely do.]
I worked at IBM and almost made it into executive management.
Large companies are destructive and dangerous.
On the other hand, I revelled in corporate shenanigans myself at ROLM.
At IBM, I tried to spin out the software division but failed.
I have seen many bad things happen at IBM, which I duly reported to executive
management.
I have tried to correct many of these problems myself. Ultimately there were
many layoffs.
People got fired for looking the other way, but very few got what they
deserved.
"Big company disease" is when a company as a whole loses its morals.
This "disease" results from people abusing their power when there is
no oversight.
Any company can catch "big company disease" and won't be able to
prevent that.
To see if you have this disease, ask lower level employees and go out with
obscure customers.
IBM had and has very strong ethics policies and penalties, good leadership and
oversight.

[SCO and IBM]
SCO has a believable case, partly because big companies are likely get corrupted
that way.
The only way to find out whether SCO has a case is by finding out what went on
at IBM.
Open Source advocates don't want anyone to find out what IBM did with Linux.
It is likely that IBM didn't heed the advise of its legal counsel and made some
bad decisions.
I have no direct evidence.

[SCO's Setbacks]
Baystar attacks SCO, the Daimler and AutoZone cases went wrong, suing Daimler
was a mistake.
All these "secondary" cases have no bearing on the IBM case.
The judge will decide the primary case against IBM.

[IP is the new Gold, and Linux the new Mill Creek]
I went to private school in Mill Creek and found that it had recovered from the
Gold Rush.
Companies are investing in Open Source IP now to turn against Open Source
software users later.
Once the SCO action is settled, more litigation against Linux end users will
ensue.
I am on SCO's side because my employer, Forrester, tried to prevent me from
researching it.
I resigned from Forrester because of that and they haven't done well since,
while I did.

[Free Software and the Idiots who buy it]
I am now going to talk about Free Software and the Idiots who buy it, as
promised.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Free software is a scam.
I have a highly cynical stance on all things free.

[The Cost of Free]
Basic economics classes tell you that nothing is ever free.
I made a bad investment, once.
The exchange of services without the exchange of money is illegal, and doesn't
work anyway.
Government would fail if a moneyless "barter" project had worked.
Free software does not contribute anything to society or even to the people who
create it.
Linux earns a programmer less money, is bad for his credentials and will make
him redundant.

[Additional Cost of Free]
Cancer research, AI and smart bombs are funded by individuals, companies and the
DoD.
Free software is not sustainable because its backers will pull out their dirty
money after they destroy the software industry with it.
There are different kinds of Free Software.

[Types of Free Software]
The types of Free Software are adware, trialware and free enterprise products
that cost money.

[Advertising Supported Free Software]
Adware is software which shows ads in return for its use, but is not really
free.
Adware may contain a keylogger, which is why I don't use this class of product.

[Free Software Trials with "Bombs"]
Trialware is a good way to learn about a product, but can be embarrassing.
Whether you pay for a trialware product is a moral matter, but the trial is
truly free.

[Free Enterprise Software]
Free Enterprise Software does not exist because you always pay for it in the
end.
Linux is not for free in many cases.
Developing on Linux may release your IP and your confidential information to the
whole world.
The community development process is a security risk and may cause your
competitive information to be leaked.
The cost of Free Enterprise software is therefore high, so use it with caution.

[FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD]
I've opened my mouth and all some of you heard was FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD. Freedom
isn't free either.
Groklaw shouldn't blindly follow any dogma, but should rather make intelligent
choices.
Carpe Diem to the SCO employees in the audience: Being right doesn't mean being
popular sometimes.

I am Rob Enderle.

---
non-breaking space

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 05:35 PM EDT

What frightens me is that people actually pay for this kind of drivel from this nut.

The only thing he's achieved as far as I'm concerend is that I wont even bother reading anything he writes in future - it simply isnt worth my valuable time.

-andy

[ Reply to This | # ]

Workers are zombies?
Authored by: GLJason on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 05:46 PM EDT
There are people who get up every day, work a 9 to 5 and go home to their families trading their lives for varying degrees of cash. In my view, though clearly not theirs, they are selling their lives very cheaply. These are wage slaves and the difference between people like that and a zombie is generally lost on me.
It's hard to believe he is actually attacking "the working man". Way to alienate 90% of the country Rob. I thought Americans were supposed to be hard working and actually produce things. It appears in Rob's world that everyone should buy something, say they bought something else, hire a bunch of lawyers to sue big companies for wads of cash so they can "live their lives" from 9 to 5 instead of being a working zombie.

Does he realize that big companies get big because they have all those hard-working people there from 9 to 5 actually using skills and developing and producing products as well as providing services. If there were no "zombies" like me out there, Rob would have nothing to do. He wouldn't have his car, his house, or even his phone (maybe not a bad idea if journalists couldn't call him and get his opinion).

I guess because I'm a worthless 9 to 5 zombie my opinion doesn't matter. Heil Enderle!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Denying SCOX their rights?
Authored by: GLJason on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 05:55 PM EDT
That is why I stood up for SCO; they were being attacked because they were vulnerable. Those that attacked them did so because they could in a clear effort to deny the employees, the stockholders, and the customers of SCO their rights and, as a number of veterans have reminded me from time to time, heroes died for those rights and I believe it is our…. No my, obligation to uphold them.

Denying SCOX their rights? Excuse me, just show me the rights and I'll gladly uphold them. If you have rights to specific code in the Linux kernel, please identify it so that I may stop abusing your rights and get it out. Until then, stop abusing my rights and lying about me by calling me a theif for using Linux. People have contributed code to Linux because it was free and to make it a better operating system. By claiming ownership of some of Linux, you are taking away their rights to use their own code.

Oh, and I'm sure all the veterans that have laid down their lives for this country did it so one little company and thier fat-cat investors can reap a huge windfall off the backs of the working men you like to equate to "zombies". Thank you for making this clear Mr. Enderle.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Denying SCOX their rights?
Authored by: GLJason on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 05:56 PM EDT
That is why I stood up for SCO; they were being attacked because they were vulnerable. Those that attacked them did so because they could in a clear effort to deny the employees, the stockholders, and the customers of SCO their rights and, as a number of veterans have reminded me from time to time, heroes died for those rights and I believe it is our…. No my, obligation to uphold them.

Denying SCOX their rights? Excuse me, just show me the rights and I'll gladly uphold them. If you have rights to specific code in the Linux kernel, please identify it so that I may stop abusing your rights and get it out. Until then, stop abusing my rights and lying about me by calling me a theif for using Linux. People have contributed code to Linux because it was free and to make it a better operating system. By claiming ownership of some of Linux, you are taking away their rights to use their own code.

Oh, and I'm sure all the veterans that have laid down their lives for this country did it so one little company and thier fat-cat investors can reap a huge windfall off the backs of the working men you like to equate to "zombies". Thank you for making this clear Mr. Enderle.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A dying man?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:18 PM EDT

I went through Enderle's speech again, but with more focus on the man than on the issues. It sounded to me like a man taking stock of his life in the way that one does when one's life is essentially over. Kind of like the adage about one's life "running before ones eyes" as part of a harrowing experience when one has a life threatening experience.

I think that Enderle's intellectual life is, essentially, over - the man is intellectually dead. Apparently, his pride is such that, once entrenched, he can't admit he's wrong, giving rise to the necessity to lie to himself endlessly and cut himself off from reality to defend his position. In his case, it has gotten pretty severe, it would seem. No intellect can last all that long under those conditions.

The difference between McBride and Enderle is interesting. McBride (like Sontag), I think, is fully aware of the fact that he is spouting BS -- he's trying to pull off a (dishonest) money grab and he is fully aware of what he is doing. Enderle, I think, was taken in -- he really doesn't have all that much to gain (financially) by taking the position he has (as far as I know). I don't know whether Enderle ever did have a quality intellect, but if he did, I think it is yet another of the tragic casualties of the McBride/Sontag escapade. And another tribute to the true evilness of the McBride/Sontag partnership, in that they are willing to use and destroy a man in this way, even at this stage of game.

Obviously, the above notions are only my impressions. But they do represent how I read the situation.

Wally Bass

[ Reply to This | # ]

VRROOM!!
Authored by: nexex on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:49 PM EDT
vrroom vrroom!!

---
Darl McBride indique que la majorité silencieuse est en faveur de SCO prenant
leur travail et les chargeant.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:56 PM EDT
We won, then they fought us and now they laugh at us - maybe theyll ignore us
soon and we can get back to winning [the GNOME camp that is - heh]. :)


---
Pixels keep you awake!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 06:58 PM EDT
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! To PJ and all the others who make up
Groklaw.

I just finished reading the speeches from the SCO
roadshow. They ALL had a common theme of obsession with
Groklaw and the overwhelming desperation to somehow
discredit Groklaw. Enderle's ramblings were the icing on
the cake!

What this means is that Groklaw's method of polite
discussion of the facts as they are available is EXTREMELY
effective. Judging by the quantity and severity of
Enderlie's remarks, I'd say we're really getting to him.
I guess the fact that PJ is always debunking his public
claims with evidence and verifiable facts, where he and
SCO seem unable to do the same, would be frustrating from
his viewpoint. That rant was DEFINITELY the product of a
great deal of frustration. Could he be losing credibility
outside of SCO-land because Groklaw has shone the light on
his dark musings? One thing to recognize is that he is
using the exact same methods against Groklaw that MS has
tried against Linux, and found out just plain don't work.

His speech was completely empty of any substance
whatsoever. It was just a plain-vanilla
character-assassination attack, and not a very good one at
that. He offered accusation after accusation, slander
after slander, with not a shred of evidence to back up any
of his claims. We're terrorists? A hate group? Death
threats??? What threats? Who is running the extortion
racket, Groklaw or SCO? We get the same old tired "free
is evil to the economy" arguments, which still don't work.
He tries so hard to paint SCO as the victim of bullying,
yet the facts that SCO is always the one throwing the
first punch, and SCO is the one trying to put a toll on
publicly-shared property are conveniently ignored. Poor
SCO, the little guy who's lunch money was stolen by
line-backers. He thinks. Maybe. But he could be wrong,
he says. Maybe the line-backers don't have the lunch
money, but the little guy has a legal right to (ransack
their locker room to) find out, he says.

He goes on and on about how smart he thinks he is (doing a
lot better than his former employer, he says). I wonder
why he's the only one saying so? According to him, if not
for the help of two of the richest, most powerful men in
the industry, he would have been fired from jobs, twice.
He had to leave his last employer, and now is apparently
self-employed. I guess that's why he's buddies with ol'
Darl - neither of these guys seem to be capable of staying
in the good graces of their employers for very long.
Here's how smart he is: His topic, when he finally gets
around to it, is "Free Software And The Idiots Who Buy
It". This is the theme of his keynote speech to the
people SCO wants to promote their products and sell them
in the field. He wants them to call their customers
idiots, for buying free software, FROM SCO! (Samba,
Apache, etc. etc.) As Bugs Bunny would say, What an
ultra-maroon!

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • SCO vs facts - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 01:10 AM EDT
Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: froglinux on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:21 PM EDT
I thought all this talk about these SCO folks smoking crack where just talk but
after going to the SCO sight and reading the transcript of Rob's talk(if you can
call it that) I whould deduce that the man is on drugs. His paranoia is
unbeliveable and the rambleing babble sure remind me of someone either in a drug
induced state or suffering some sort of mental breakdown.His rants about human
nature,personal relationships with Bill Gates,and use of foul language; make me
wonder what is going on up in THE SCO UBERBUNKER in Lindon,Utah. I for one am
glad to see so much interest in Linux and the opensource movement to anyone with
any understanding of economics a free and open market produces inovation and
growth while monopolies are stagnent.It may sound strange as I consider myself a
moderate but Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shruged should be mandatory reading for
everyone at SCO and Micro Soft
Vive La Revolution

---
froglinux

[ Reply to This | # ]

Misc. Thoughts
Authored by: GLJason on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:29 PM EDT
  1. Calls people in the audience that may post on Groklaw "spies"
  2. Says it's unethical to put "spies" in their events (first time I've heard of reporters at an event that's supposed to be reported called "spies")
  3. Equates working people [that use Groklaw] with Zombies
  4. Equates threatening careers and reputations (supposedly because we disagree with his views) with the 9/11 tragedy and the shootings at Columbine
  5. Characterizes people that (rightly I think) disagree with SCO as "the Linux attack force" and says they don't differ from other hate groups
  6. Compares things happening in IBM with the prison abuses in Iraq

I think Mr. Enderle should read his own quote and look in the mirror:

You are given a set of tools when you are born, and largely through luck and choices these tools are enhanced through your life, and that life is a fixed commodity. When it is done, it's done, and forcing people to say you're right when you aren't doesn't enhance or increase your life. It just makes you a villain in your own life story.

How about this quote? "The judge will decide the case and that is where the real action is." I thought the jury would decide the case. Is this because he believes that SCO's case is so far out there that the judge will decide most things against them on summary judgement?

Remember that the one thing that put me on SCO's side was that when I went to try to find out if SCO had a case and incredibly large number of resources was put in play to block me. After I was done and concluded they had a case I was ordered to never talk about this again. This was at a major firm, Forrester, who had been threatened to a level unheard of in that industry.
Certainly this wasn't anyone from Groklaw. From all I've read and what I believe, I would LOVE to see what SCOX's case is about. SCOX are the ones that have trouble showing their evidence. Is he trying to say IBM was trying to stop him from seeing the evidence?
One of my own initial bad investments was in movies where you could actually deduct substantially more then you invested due to some screwy tax loophole, only problem was I was 15 and didn't exactly have a lot of income to deduct. I never said I was born smart, that's $5K I'll never see again (and back then $5K would buy you two Honda Civics).
So he was a rich kid? His parents just had thousands of dollars lying around for him to use? In Iowa you can't even get a regular job before you're 16 (with some exceptions), how did he make that money? Not only that, but he is trying to cheat the taxpayers out of money by using some screwy tax loophole. Earlier he talks about the easiest way to get information about companies is to talk to employees pretending you're someone else. Yeah, and people on Groklaw trying to find the truth are unethical, right...

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Misc. Thoughts - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:29 PM EDT
Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 07:50 PM EDT
I must first say that I really appreciate what GROKLAW is doing and the general
quality and professionalism with which it is done.

However, I am a bit disappointed in not seeing a link to the transcript of Rob
Enderle's Keynote. A link was not provided presumably because the content is
obscene and not fit for consumption -- after looking for it and reading it I
found only two occurances of a common term used for false and misleading
argument (B.S.). While this *could be mildly offensive if it were personalized
the term is used when referring to generalized concepts and not the actions or
speech of an individual.

This is the type of one sidedness that GROKLAW lays open for the world to see
when referring to anti-Linux FUD spun by the SCO machine but, I am a bit
suprised to see this type of censorship here. Most readers of GROKLAW should be
able to make up their own mind as to the merits of Mr Enderle's comments, his
opinions are clear and in opposition to the FOSS movement but hiding them or
ignoring them will not make them go away.

I would prefer that full source or links are provided where answering excerpted
claims (which are often presented out of context when thes links are not
provided). If the links contain potentially offensive material you can provide
warnings but please don't lower yourselves to the same tactics as those you
oppose.

MM

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:05 PM EDT
Rob Enderle said in hsi SCO Forum Keynote:
If you've been watching, companies are slowly moving to acquire IP and they appear to be planning on recouping that investment at some future time. With Open Source software you can see, in great detail, what makes the products tick and this makes discovery relatively simple. It is my belief that people and companies are now mining this software for opportunities and then acquiring the intellectual property they will need to "mine" Linux users at some future point, granted only well funded non-government users.

i have only a layman's understanding of IP law, the patent system, copyright, copyleft, etc., but this mining Enderle's talking about seems in direct opposition to prior art. am i wrong in thinking that he's saying: "Joe Hacker writes some FOSS (as in beer and speech); Company X reads Joe Hacker's code and determine's there's something patentable or copyrightable in there; Company X patents/copyrights Joe Hacker's work; Company X attempts to sue the pants off of IBM for using Joe Hacker's code.

maybe i'm just missinterpretting what he's saying

[ Reply to This | # ]

Open Source users are Idiots?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:13 PM EDT
Hmmm, lets take a look at some of the new "features" in UnixWare (from a review on newsforge):

"The new 7.1.4 version adds a number of new capabilities to UnixWare, including the common Unix printing system (CUPS), GIMP-print printer drivers, ESP Ghostscript PostScript and PDF interpreter and renderer, URW++ fonts, Java 2 Standard Edition (J2SE) 1.4.2, J2SE runtime environment, the Java Communications API 2.0, PostgreSQL 7.4.2, MySQL 3, Samba 3.0, Cdrtools, OpenLDAP (Lightweight Directory Access Protocol), and Compaq and Intel PCI hot-plug drivers."

Idiots indeed.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Down with the free press
Authored by: mrcreosote on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:16 PM EDT
People who advocate a free press are just hippy communists who want to put News
Corp and Time/Warner out of business.

I am sure Rob Enderle would agree that America was not built on the idea of free
press. I mean, how can any newspaper survive if people think they should get
their news for free?

I bet the WSJ or NYT wouldn't agree with the idea of free press.


---
----------
mrcreosote

[ Reply to This | # ]

RedHat sells the signature on binaries
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:17 PM EDT
It seems to me that (aside from response to customer incidents) the main product
which RedHat sells is it's signature on the software it packages. And it seems
right to me that they should be able to prohibit redistribution of those signed
packages.

When someone else takes the source RedHat puts up for download and recompiles it
and signs it, you have to trust them to operate a secure compilation facility,
not to insert backdoors, not to reveal their private key, etc., in addition to
trusting RedHat to provide well-maintained source code with promptly released
security upgrades.

As usual, to trust someone is to give them the ability to break your security.

BTW what is the legal theory which allows RedHat to prohibit redistribution of
the signed binaries?

[ Reply to This | # ]

I had to look
Authored by: rob.hughes on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:45 PM EDT
It's like a car accident on the road... you know you
shouldn't look, but do anyway. So, I read the Enderle bit.
Nice how he portrays SCO as the poor victim who was
attacked by all the big bullies. All I can say in the way
of commnent on it is that he isn't right. He isn't even
wrong (to paraphrase a truly great mind). I do, strictly
as an aside, find his outrage that the Linux community
didn't just roll over and let SCO spread their FUD and
even outright lies about the origins of Linux absolutely
hysterical. I've bookmarked the page in my "comedy gold"
section.

[ Reply to This | # ]

How to not win friends and influence people
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 08:46 PM EDT
Just had a quick gander at the text of the speech, and what surprised me was not
the language, but the incredibly poor reasoning - unless I missed something, his
arguments against Linux, Groklaw, OSS, Life, The Universe and Everything pretty
much boiled down to this: "Don't believe people who tell you I spread FUD,
it's them that are spreading FUD. Really." No specific errors that have
been made on the "anti-SCO FUD site groklaw" (run by a "marketing
executive" ....right) have made, just random baseless and poorly justified
assertations on the theme "I'm right, you're wrong, now go home". Not
wanting to go into too much psychoanalysis here, but this Enderle has got to be
pretty impressed with himself to think that, even at an SCO conference, the
audience is going to believe everything he says without wanting some kind of
collaberating evidence.

Seriously, how much is this guy getting paid? I think I've got the opposite
opinion to him in regards to the value for money of linux and enderle's work.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Apology
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 09:11 PM EDT
> I hope Mr. Enderle will come to his senses and do the right thing. If he's
a gentleman, he will. Because if he's in his right mind, doesn't suffer from
hardening of the arteries, and was not drinking, he really should apologize for
what he said about Groklaw.

Don't hold your breath PJ.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:17 PM EDT
"I am both an ex-auditor and an ex-sheriff"

This tells you all you need to know about Rob Enderle right there.

The man has absolutely NO conception of what freedom is with that background. In
fact, with both an auditing and sheriff background, he can't understand the term
"free" in EITHER monetary or open source terms!

He's an idiot. The OSS community needs to point this out whenever he or Laura
DiDio open their mouths to be quoted in the media.



[ Reply to This | # ]

"Swears a Lot"
Authored by: Lord Bitman on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 10:32 PM EDT
Saying someone "swears a lot" because he said "bullshit"
twice, and in general complaining about "swearing", "foul
language", etc.
Am I the only one who thinks that such is childish, irresponcible, and horribly
unprofessional? No, not "swearing". I'm talking about complaining
ceaselessly about how someone else chooses to talk, even discouraging others
from reading what he has to say on the basis of that,
<em>especially</em> when there are plenty of other much more valid
reasons to call the speech a load of crap.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I look to Groklaw for reasons other than reading the
<i>irrelevant</i> information about what someone has said.

Here is text of the speech in question:
http://www.sco.com/2004forum/agenda/Enderle_keynote_SCO-Forum2004.html

I believe it is everyone's responsibility to read it, understand it, and accept
that someone else holds these [wrong :)] opinions. Nothing should ever be
dismissed simply on the grounds of having one bad word twice (making up no
noteable portion of the whole speech)

---
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All

[ Reply to This | # ]

How Rob Could Tell There Were Groklawyers in the Audience
Authored by: Ikester on Tuesday, August 10 2004 @ 11:07 PM EDT
They were the ones whose mouths weren't hanging open in amazement!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Paranoia and Enderle
Authored by: Duster on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 12:18 AM EDT
Enderle's talk is eye-wateringly boring. It is obvious that he is feeling
paranoid about the growing influence of Groklaw. He apparently likes Groklaw
even less than he likes Apple. Evidently the persistent way in which errors of
his are exposed and dissected here really bothers him. It's possible that
Groklaw may have somewhat inhibited his entry to pundit-hood. He also stated
that he took exception to Darl's failure to mention him as a pundit. But then,
perhaps Darl considers him more in the light of a paid shill than as a pundit.


It is instructive to run a Google search on his name. It is clear that 1) no
one but reporters seems to take him seriously and not even all of those, 2) he
is almost universally considered clueless by members of the IT industry who
actually use and produce its products, 3) folks who like the Mac and Apple line
really, really don't like him. I found more hits referencing him and Apple than
with Linux.

In all, the talk was boring to read, and generally reflected a level of paranoia
and an all-around unprofessional attitude. One point of note is that the
address tends to be directed to the "Groklaw spies" in the audience,
either that or he assumes the majority of the audience are "Groklaw
spies."

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Groklaw spies - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 03:19 AM EDT
Enderle . . . an opportunist!
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 12:30 AM EDT
He admits his life has been full of poor decisions.

Now he is betting the farm he can win and win BIG on
SCO's litigation. That's all it is. He's become an
opportunist.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Can't Please Everyone
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 12:43 AM EDT
Although I had to take the time to locate the reprint of his
"speech," it wasn't that big of a pain.

As a web administrator, I would hate to know that I contributed a lot of
referral linkings to an otherwise poor attempt at paid trashtalk to the overall
community. For a company such as SCO, this kind of chatter at the podium is
totally unprofessional.

I congratulate PJ for not linking to it.

I also find some companies don't like individuals linking to their websites and
quoting from their articles but that's another topic altogether.

Interesting that Enderle rewrote a great deal of his "speech" at the
last minute so-to-speak. He must have been given "free reign" and
trusted a great deal that he would back old Darl McBride's position with such
"leeway."

[ Reply to This | # ]

PJ is too much a purist, I think
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 01:00 AM EDT
Well, maybe PJ has been too much a purist, indeed, by not linking to the
original transcript. I, however, do think that 'filthy' is an accurate word to
describe the speech as a whole. This includes the language use but, more
importantly, the context itself. Everyone would agree if I said that the way he
"defined" free software is filthy. Not because of the language, but by
itself.

Overall, I don't think we should pay much attention to this nauseous idiot
Enderle. He really didn't break any new grounds in his favorite business of FUD
making. As PJ would put it, "no one should bother to hate him".

Cheers to all! :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: radix2 on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 02:17 AM EDT
Rob Enderle seems to misunderstand a lot actually. If he is not wrong about Linux, he is wrong about the GPL.
Or going back a few years before he locked horns with the "Linux Zealots" (his phrase), he was wrong about the Macintosh.

Yes folks, Rob is nothing more than a troll. Please don't feed him :)
(troll defn: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oi=defmore&q=def ine:troll

[ Reply to This | # ]

Who is Enderle anyway?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 02:23 AM EDT
Just curious -- who is this guy Rob Enderle anyway? Looks to me like SCO pulled
out an arbitrary fellow from the street and tells us: "listen to what this
guy says". Is he distinguished in any way, other than getting drunk and
talking out of his a## (using his own vocabulary)? I really don't understand why
he is even catching the headlines.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: blacklight on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 05:43 AM EDT
I don't mind hearing Rob Enderle swear - individuals of Enderle's type swear
when they run out of ideas, and the more extensive the swearing the more
completely they have run out of ideas. Who am I to complain when the guy is
obviously tapped out? (And no, I don't think that the Rob is going to run out of
wrong ideas and stupid ideas anytime soon: the guy's brains is practically a
gusher for this kind of ideas).

I mind it even less when SCOG puts up his keynote rant on their website: it's
always good to hear our enemies make stupid comments in their own words within
the context of their entire speech. We get a two-for-one: Rob Enderle loses
because his entire speech is online, and SCOG loses because it sponsors him. And
we didn't even have to lift a finger!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: blacklight on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 06:08 AM EDT
Both Darl the Snarl and Rob the Shill's paranoia about grklaw's
"spies" infiltrating their public forums are a day late and a dollar
short, aside from being besides the point: if the forums are public, then our
people have the right to be there. Period. And if the Darl and the Rob don't
like it, they can run back to their rooms, beat their tiny fists against their
pillows, and cry themselves to sleep: I don't care.

I will note the following: having our people in SCOG's public forums and venues
keeps SCOG on the straight and narrow. We don't want and need a situation where
they could tell us "You weren't there, so you don't really know what
happened" - We want to slam the door shut on this kind of deniability, and
if their fingers happened to be on the jamb while we were slamming the door:
tough luck!

It is not in our interest to have SCOG and its minions were calumnious
statements about us in public venues, and get away with it. Therefore, we will
act according to our own interests, and their feelings are simply of no concern
to us. The public has the right to know what SCOG is thinking, saying and going,
and if the price that we must pay is inflicting tremendous pain and suffering on
SCOG in our pursuit of the truth, then we will more than gladly pay it. We don't
owe SCOG, Rob Enderle, Daniel Lyons and Laura Didio any favors, do we?

[ Reply to This | # ]

What I Find More Telling Is
Authored by: brenda banks on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 07:18 AM EDT
what reporter,analyst or whatever covering this event actually reported the
truth about what happened at the event?
hmmmmmm
the only ones were the ones that are part of the groklaw or yahoo board?
was there a reporter that told about the unprofessional ways of delivering the
speech?
i find that very telling of itself
read the reports of the linuxworld expo and the M$windows thing that was held
just before
there were descriptions of some of the silliness that gates or balmer did?


---
br3n

irc.fdfnet.net #groklaw
Mike "Moogy" Tuxford, 1953-2004. Rest in peace.

[ Reply to This | # ]

And in rebuttal to the substance of the speech
Authored by: PeteS on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 08:02 AM EDT
Linuxworld is running an article at

http://www.linuxworld.com/story/45707.htm?DE=1

Link below

The Business Value of Open Source

PeteS

---
Today's subliminal thought is:

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
Authored by: Greebo on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 08:13 AM EDT
Well, SCO's site seems to be back up, and i've read the Enderle stuff.

To say that i'm disgusted would be a gross understatement!

This, inparticular stood out :

There are people who get up every day, work a 9 to 5 and go home to their families trading their lives for varying degrees of cash. In my view, though clearly not theirs, they are selling their lives very cheaply. These are wage slaves and the difference between people like that and a zombie is generally lost on me. Do you realize that many, I'm not saying all or even most, of the Linux supporters are like this, they have never coded anything in their lives, have never even played a video game, in fact the only reason they are supporting Linux is because it is a cause and their life lacks one. That is an incredibly sad group of folks, and I wonder what their reaction will be when they finally understand they are supporting software and not the second coming.

So, i'm a zombie am i Mr Enderle, just because i work 9-5 at an Engineering company, just like millions of other people?

I cannot begin to express my anger at being insulted like this. If we had sunk to your depths and insulted you in the same way i'm sure you would be calling us all kinds of names.... oh, wait - you are!

And as for Groklaw being a FUD site, i think you need to have your eyes tested. All Groklaw has done is present the facts in the case (Through the use of Court Documents), and allowed people to add their own personal comments and observations, since a lot of them have lived and worked with Unix over it's lifetime, as is their right. Most statements are backed up with references to court documents or news articles.

Can SCO say the same thing?

Aren't we, and IBM, still waiting for the reports from the '3 teams of deep divers, MIT scientists' etc that Darl claimed had found Millions of lines of code?

If Darl had said 'Here's the code. Here is our clear ownership of IP and Copyright, and these people are misusing it', then no one would be disagreeing that SCO has a case. But Darl hasn't done that, has he?!

All we've seen is vague arm waving and shouting. Not one solid fact so far. Not one line of code has been shown, despite court orders for SCO to do so.

So if the FUD is coming from anywhere Mr Enderle is suggest you look no further than the people holding your leash in one hand, and your food bowl in the other.

Greebo

---
-----------------------------------------
Recent Linux Convert and Scared Cat Owner

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rob Enderle is a dinosaur
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 08:42 AM EDT
He still thinks software is a product. He's in total cognitive surrender about
it being information. When he flat out denies that it's impossible to get that
information free of cost from Red Hat, well, we really have so little common
ground that there's no point debating or analysing further.

Watch out for the tar pit, Rob. But I promise you this; after you'll gone,
we'll make a real nice display in the museum celebrating your kind.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Filthy langiage removed from Enderle's speech?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 08:51 AM EDT
They must have cleaned Enderle's speech up. I did not find any filthy language
as of Aug 11. I do not agree with hardly any of what he says, if anything, but
they must have excised the bad language at least from the speech on SCO's site.
There's lots of insults, bluster and misinformation and that has definitely
stayed. I guess even SCO has a limit to what they will post if they want to
maintain any small iota of credibilty.

[ Reply to This | # ]

    Catch 22
    Authored by: frk3 on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 10:40 AM EDT

    It's kind of funny that Darl and Rob both referred to "Groklaw spies".

    I mean, if the "Groklaw spies" were asked to stand up, who in their right mind would? A "Groklaw supporter", yes, but a spy, that's just funny.

    If anyone had stood up, you can bet that Darl & Co. would have had a field day with that at the forum and in press releases "Groklaw spies infiltrate SCO Forum 2004!" or similar spewage.

    I have imparted the following a number of times here on Groklaw, criminals accuse others of what they are doing themselves. Not sure where I got that exactly, picked it up years ago, and it applies directly to TSG and their blathering about their IP rights, etc.

    It would not surprise me in the least if, when TSG is almost a memory, that major crimes by key figures come to light.

    Oh, another thing I thought of this morning. I am convinced beyond doubt, as a result of Rob's speech, that there is an entire FUD campaign attempting to slow or stop the use of Linux and FOSS. The similiarity of views, statements, positioning, etc. are just too similar. And that this campaign has willing partners of TSG, Rob Enderele and others, with Microsoft as a key player, if not the key player/organizer. I am also certain that details of this will start to come out as rats start leaving the doomed U.S.S. SCO Group.

    [ Reply to This | # ]

    I only have one question....
    Authored by: pyrodave on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 03:16 PM EDT
    ....For the SCO people...

    YOu call us "Spies", "propogandists", "zombies"
    even.....Just because we support something. Where are all the SCO supporters?
    Are you saying that nothing is worthwhile unless someone is exploiting it for
    money? Maybe thats why SCO has no fansite that matches groklaw, SCO can only be
    exploited for money in one fashion: To Be Wielded like a Dead Monkey swung
    savagely at your enemies (who are only your enemies because they aren't you
    friends [friends being defined be those who who are willing to swing the carcass
    or pay someone else to]) to try to scare them into buying you out or paying you
    off.

    Guess what? You have miscalculated, and the only winners when this is all be
    over will be Freedom and your lawyers.

    [ Reply to This | # ]

    Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
    Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT
    Now that we have enderel on record swearing a blue streak, I think we can now
    safely say the Proprietary Software Side of the debate, that being SCO, MS and
    others, are squarely against decency, family values, and if left unchecked will
    cause the downfall of our Constitution and way of life!

    Right there on SCO's website for kids and all to see is filth! Who knows where
    this will lead? This kind of language will lead to breakdown in very the moral
    fabric of society, and then people will be selling themselves for obscene
    purposes.

    What you say, it is only one person? How can you generalize to the whole group
    from a single instance.

    Well, Just follow the logic of Darl and Enderle and Dido. They paint with a
    broad brush. Remember Darl and the constitution or a few idiots launching a DoS
    attack against the SCO site occasioned Darl and the boys characterising the
    whole Open source community.

    What Rob and Darl do not seem to understand is that for the most part groklaw is
    trying to understand and present the side of open source. If someone wanted to
    write and article about why the Slander of Title suit will win and the evidence
    for it, it would be welcomed on groklaw. Would SCO present the open source side
    of the debate to be posted on SCO? I don't think so.

    So Rob, you keep saying you are influential, and want to make a difference.
    Instead of diatribes, swearing and obfustification, why not sit down and take
    the Novell case and calmly (the opposite of what you portrayed at SCOforum)
    analyze it and point out where groklaw people are wrong in asserting their
    belief that Novell will win.

    From my experiance when people start attcking, jumping up and down and start
    swearing, they are trying to distract everyone from the simple fact they either
    have no case or don't know what they are talking about.

    Which is it? You have no case, or you don't know what your are talking about?

    [ Reply to This | # ]

    An Open Letter to Rob Enderle
    Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 10:35 PM EDT
    Howard B. Golden responds to RE at the following link:
    http://www.osviews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&
    ;sid=1959

    One random thought struk me while looking at this letter: all those people
    Enderle and Gates kept out of jail; did they belong there along with Rob?
    Something to consider.

    [ Reply to This | # ]

    Rob Enderle Misunderstands Free Software and Swears a Lot
    Authored by: roman_mir on Thursday, August 12 2004 @ 11:46 AM EDT
    My reply to Rob Enderle.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr.
    Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come
    out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that
    could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

    Mr. Enderle, I believe this quote from Charles Babbage basically describes what
    I think about the writing in your article. Maybe it would be useful if you went
    back to your writing and reviewed the text because there are quite a few of
    'confusion of ideas' presented there.

    Free software of course does not mean free of charge necessarily. GNU
    foundation that defined GPL (the GNU Public License, I am sure you have heard of
    Richard Stallman) one of the ways to release Free software does not prohibit
    selling of software. The only important idea is that distribution of modified
    Free software must include the source code.

    I read your article and all I see is an old grumpy man with many regrets and
    grudges against people he worked with.

    When I write code, sometimes I decide to release the code under GPL not because
    I have millions of dollars (I wish) but because I want others to build upon that
    code, to get that code better tested, to get that code modified to support
    features I did not have time to build myself.

    I believe that Free code creates a lot of value, it allows others to concentrate
    on other tasks, to build more code rather than write the same thing that I did
    already over and over again. Hopefully something the others write will be of
    benefit to me too (and I am sure it will be,) Free code creates infrastructure
    for things that are more and more advanced, but the most important achievement
    of Free source is setting up of Free open standards. What the proprietary
    companies prefer to keep secret and to change from release to release of their
    software, the world needs to be public so that the next generation of programs
    could read the past generation of data files.

    IP. - there is no such thing. There are copyrights, patents, trademarks, and
    there are licences. Free software supports copyrights and adheres to licences.

    The very moment that you state that you believe that in 1994 Linux was nothing
    more than a copy of Unix you lose. Linux was written from scratch, so the
    copyrights belong to the authors like Linus.

    Linux kernel is GPLed and it would be nowhere without Free GPLed GNU software
    like the gcc (gnu c compiler for example.) This is how value is built in Free -
    someone writes a Free compiler another persone uses the compiler to write a Free
    OS kernel, another person uses the Free OS kernel to put together an OS
    distribution and someone else uses the Free OS distro to write Free Office
    Suite, which is used by a writer who now does not have to pay for the tools to
    write a novel that we all can enjoy if he releases it for free but we can donate
    to the writer if the stuff he wrote is good. This is a simplistic example
    of-course.

    When you say Groklaw sends spies to events and it reflects poorly to Linux, I
    see fear and anger. You are angered that technical people who did not have a
    chance in the world to understand most of the legal side of various litigations
    now have that possibility. The events you talk about are free to visit, noone
    pretends to be someone else to cover them. This is just shows that you really
    have no arguments so you have to bring this up. Definetely the image of SCO has
    been hurt much more now that there is such coverage but there is nothing there
    that SCO did not do to itself, it used to be a company that built products and
    even had its own GNU/Linux distribution, now it is just a litigation company,
    suing its own customers.

    You don't like that 'Linux folks' say that SCO takes away rights of the
    hard-working people? You say that it is BS and that SCO is not targeting 'kids'
    unlike RIAA? I call BS. SCO is claiming that it has the right to get paid by
    all corporations that use GNU/Linux. Well, here is the biggest lie the SCO is
    pushing:

    1. SCO does not own GNU/Linux
    2. GNU/Linux is not Unix.
    3. SCO does not have rights to the original Unix,
    4. Novell has those rights.

    SCO would like to prove that they own GNU/Linux but this cannot happen, in over
    a year of litigation not a single solid argument was brought up by SCO to prove
    this point. On the other hand there are hundreds and thousands of GNU/Linux
    contributors who have the copyright over the code in GNU/Linux. This is all I
    have to say, SCO is trying to steal these copyrights.

    Good luck spreading your poison.

    Roman
    Software Designer/Developer

    [ Reply to This | # ]

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