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Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Windows
Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 03:29 PM EDT

A Microsoft spokesman says, according to TechWorld, that Linux isn't open source, or something almost incomprehensible but sort of like that. It made headlines that he said it, but I don't think that is what he meant, if that is indeed what he said. Reporters and/or headline writers have been known to sensationalize in order to drive traffic. Sometimes they make mistakes, too.

What could he possibly have meant, if he said it or something like it? Reading what he said carefully, I think the new FUD this is representative of is spinning it that it's a battle between open source (for free) and paid-for, commercial software, and according to that definition, Red Hat isn't truly open source. Just another attack on Red Hat, in other words. What an amazing coincidence. Right after the legal settlement between them, both Sun and Microsoft start attacking Red Hat.

They certainly don't want the discussion to be whether free/open source software that you can look at, change, copy and share is better than petrified-wood-in-a-proprietary-prison software for which you can be arrested or sued if you do any of the above. No one in their right mind would choose their software, if they were to think it through clearly like that.

He also said Linux isn't more secure than Windows, but poor thing -- he said it while the Sasser worm has been costing everyone using Windows heartache and millions or billions or whatever it turns out to be this time.

Frank Hayes, in an opinion piece, Shameless, criticizes Microsoft for blaming businesses for not patching fast enough, after Microsoft put out a patch for the Sasser worm two weeks ago:

But the hole is in every version of Windows NT and XP Pro that has shipped since Windows NT 4.0 in 1996.

In other words, it took Microsoft almost eight years to find and fix this hole -- a hole that exists only because of Microsoft product development policies that in another profession would be called malpractice. But now we're told it's corporate IT's fault too, because in two weeks we haven't patched the 12.5 million servers and 200 million client PCs affected. (That's the current Windows NT, Server and XP Professional installed base, according to IDC.)

Why haven't we patched them? Everybody knows the answer: because of the cost. There's such a continuous stream of patches from Microsoft that we can't afford to apply every patch immediately.

Why doesn't Microsoft get it right the first time -- or the second time, or the third -- so all those patches won't be necessary?"

He does some conservative math and figures all those patches cost about a billion for corporate IT to apply if you only figure patching servers; if you want to patch all the PCs too, add at least another billion. No doubt future "independent" studies of total cost of ownership between Windows and Linux will factor in those figures. Haha. Or here's an idea: how about someone actually studies what malware is costing Microsoft-users and factor in some real figures? My wish just came true, actually, in part. Gartner today says that responding to vulnerabilities appropriately adds about 15% to the cost of doing business, and that it's part of the increased cost of using Windows (yoohoo, Ms. DiDio):
Dealing with widespread worms like Sasser raises the cost of using Windows, a research analyst said Wednesday.

Mark Nicolett, research director at Gartner, recommended that enterprises boost spending on patch management and intrusion prevention software to keep ahead of worms, which are appearing ever sooner after vulnerabilities in Windows are disclosed.

“This is part of the carrying cost of using Windows," said Nicolett. "The cost of a Windows environment has gone up because enterprises have to install security patches very rapidly, deal with outages caused by secondary problems with these patches, and deploy additional layers of security technology."

As you see, Gartner's recommendation is that you spend the extra money. But you do have a choice. You could go Linux or get a Mac. It isn't just the expense. It's the time and the annoyance. When patches were released a couple of weeks ago, there was some criticism that there were so many patches still needed, so long after Microsoft began its well-publicized push for increased security. There were three patches, but one of them alone fixed 14 separate vulnerabilities. And there is another reason some don't like to install the patches, according to one reader, who suggested people just dump Microsoft and end their problems [Note that the comment is no longer at http://cwforums.computerworld.com/WebX?14@47.y1OJaZmrQIN^0 @.ee9d515/10, which is where it was in 2004. Ten years later, it's gone with the internet wind.]:
Just ditch MS

Why is it that it is only Microsoft products that suffer?

And if you want to know why sysadmins don't install MS patches -- well they've had too many nasty experiences of "if I don't install the patch the machine will be compromised, but if I do install the patch the apps on it will break and the machine will be useless.

Is that not an obvious solution? Just switch to software that isn't vulnerable to the malware currently going around. I wonder why journalists, or analysts for that matter, so rarely mention that option when covering the latest virus or worm. They write about the problem as if there is no escape. Malware is inevitable and inescapable in their articles, like gravity. Maybe they need help to even think of the other possibilities. A software monoculture leaves you vulnerable, says Australia's Open Source Industry Association's spokesman, Stephen Jenkins: "A homogeneous environment, one with only Microsoft platforms and applications, is the worst from a security and survivability perspective," said Jenkin. "It's the same as having a whole wheat field made up of genetically identical plants. Introducing a propagating virus into just a single plant could be enough to wipe out the entire crop, as happened in the Irish Potato Famine.

"This same process applies to computer systems. By designing your network so that half of your organisation's computer systems are open source Linux or BSD Unix, you will ensure that some of your computer systems will always survive the next major malware outbreak, meaning your business stays in business." Microsoft has just announced that Palladium is dead, by the way. Longhorn will have a different security solution:

On Tuesday, Microsoft executives confirmed that NGSCB will be canned. The project, dreamed up with Intel in 2002, was once code-named Palladium.

"We're evaluating how these NGSCB capabilities should be integrated into Longhorn, but we don't know exactly how it'll be manifested. A lot of decisions have yet to be made," said Mario Juarez, product manager in Microsoft's Security and Technology Business Unit. "We're going to come out later this year with a complete story."

Juarez said the project is being shelved because customers and ISV partners didn't want to rewrite their applications using the NGSCB API set.

Now, swinging back around to that "Linux is not (solely) open source" remark, what I think he was trying to say was once Red Hat has the nerve to ask for money, they make it something that isn't pure open source. Here is what he said about them, and you'll see that he doesn't grasp yet the free-as-in-speech not free-as-in-beer part:
"There's a good quote from Red Hat that says, 'yes we are based on open source, but that doesn't mean it's free.' Quite frankly if we lose to Linux because our customers say it's better value for money, tough luck for us. Those that provide open source, like the Red Hats, need to provide commercial services and extensions. They'll need to invest and that's a commercial activity."
What he was trying to say, I think, was that Red Hat costs money, so they are commercial, and in his world view, commercial isn't open source:
Stressing that Linux is "not free", Vamos said open source is a development methodology that should not be confused with the commercial nature of Linux distributions.

"Open source is not [solely] Linux," Vamos said. "That's probably a little bit out there in the sense that Linux has been developed using open source development models. I guess what I'm saying is that when you talk about open source -- the way open source is being described -- is that people generally talk about it as being Linux and I think you really need to look at the two separately."

Vamos said Linux has a place, and that "it is already doing some good work for customers" but separates it from open source because "the open source debate tends to be one that's about philosophy and views". And then he gets to the punch: "When you talk about Linux versus Windows, you're talking about which operating system is the best value for money and fit for purpose. That's a very basic decision customers can make if they have the information available to them." . . .

And on: "For those of you engrossed in the decision about is it open source or is it commercial software, I'd probably respectfully suggest that you're spending a lot of time on issue number four or five in the pecking order."

So, first, Sun attacks Red Hat as "proprietary" and says open standards are better than open source. Now Microsoft attacks Red Hat as not being pure open source and suggests that on that basis, they are a better value. I think there is a basic flaw in this new strategy. The proprietary side is making a big mistake. They are used to competition that succeeds by destroying the opposition. That's Microsoft's MO. But GNU/Linux isn't a company. Red Hat does offer a distro, but it is just one of many choices. Even if MS and their new best buddy were successful in killing Red Hat, it wouldn't defeat the GNU/Linux side.

The dark side thinks in old-fashioned ways, so they can't fight very well. It's like they are the British army, and GNU/Linux are the American revolutionaries in the Revolutionary War. The British had all the money and the uniforms and the training and the numbers on their side. But they only fought the old way, despite finding themselves in a new kind of war, and they kept lining up in rows in bright red jackets in open fields, because that is what they were used to doing. The Americans had creativity and brains and a serious desire to prevail, motivated by a concept, an ideal, and they came up with an innovative way of fighting, hiding behind trees and picking off the Redcoats as they marched along in step, in the open, in the old-fashioned way. And you know how that turned out.

As for the economics, you can pay money to buy GNU/Linux software with or without support, but if you can't afford it, and are willing to download it and support it yourself, you can always get it for free. Yes. Free as in beer, but also free as in speech. It's the free as in speech that makes us want it so badly. But it's also freely available, free as in beer, all over the Internet. Even from big, "bad" Red Hat. Just go to their download page, and you will find two choices, Enterprise or Fedora. Click on Fedora, and there you are, downloading software that is free as in beer and free as in speech -- a complete operating system and applications galore. What is the Fedora Project?

The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported product of Red Hat, Inc.

The goal of The Fedora Project is to work with the Linux community to build a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from free software. Development will be done in a public forum. The project will produce time-based releases of Fedora Core about 2-3 times a year with a public release schedule. The Red Hat engineering team will continue to participate in the building of Fedora Core and will invite and encourage more outside participation than was possible in Red Hat Linux. By using this more open process, we hope to provide an operating system that uses free software development practices and is more appealing to the open source community."

Here is a list of what you get for free. And here is their comparison page. What you don't get with Fedora is support and certification. My guess is you'd get that too if it weren't for the SCO's of this world. Service you pay for, because that is Red Hat's business. But the simple truth is, if you hire some GNU/Linux gurus, you can live without support from any particular vendor. Or hire a company to do support for you. That's the beauty of open source software, or one of the beauties: there is no vendor lock-in. So buy from another vendor, if you want a different price or service offering.

This attack on Red Hat wouldn't by any chance have something to do with their announcement that they are expanding from the server space into enterprise desktops, would it? Or maybe they just read the World Bank-sponsored Dravis Group report describing the state of open source software in the public and private sectors globally, which you can download here:

While the initial interest in open source seems to have been part of a drive to reduce IT budgets, today system administrators and CIOs are quickly becoming aware of the longer-term benefits and ROI that comes with flexibility, interoperability, and choices.
Even Time magazine says Microsoft has to do something, because of the Linux threat, but their thinking on what Microsoft may do gives you the shivers:
Such a threat is exactly the kick in the pants the company needs to get its mojo back. "Microsoft works best when there's a foe," says financial analyst Rosoff. And as Apple and Netscape discovered to their chagrin, the folks at Redmond are not shy about adopting their rivals' good ideas. The real attraction of Linux is that it is open source — anyone can poke around in the software code, and engineers around the world can suggest improvements. That is anathema to Microsoft, which fiercely protects its intellectual property. Yet to meet the threat, Microsoft has hired some top Linux brains and released its first open-source product. It's a relatively insignificant geekware tool called WiX. But considering that Ballmer previously called open source "a cancer," WiX may signal a major change of heart.

Which at this company is pretty much business as usual. "We have a treasure chest of technology that allows us to be very agile," says Rick Rashid, Microsoft's senior vice president for research. "If the world changes, we can change with it." Being aggressively agnostic about technology is the only way Redmond has a shot at double-digit growth again.

Eek. There may be a cancer growing, all right, but it's not Linux. It sounds like it may be a Brand X Linux. Only they won't call it that. It'll be called something like WinIX or . . . Lindows. Hmm. Could that be why they are fighting that case so hard? You think?

So far, it's just a few cells, but you know how that goes. Before you know it, if you aren't paying attention, it's metastisized all over the place and tries to take over.


  


Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Windows | 330 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections Here, please.
Authored by: PJ on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 06:37 PM EDT
Please put all mistakes here. There may be more than usual. Ibiblio was
working on some plumbing and everything was deadly slow today, and I hope
I caught all errors, but it was such a struggle, I'm not sure.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Win
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 06:46 PM EDT
WiX - Windows Installer XML
http://sourceforge.net/projects/wix/

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two minor points
Authored by: AdamBaker on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 06:49 PM EDT
The reason the "Sasser patch" wasn't widely applied in advance wasn't
because it might possibly break things but because within a day or 2 of release
there were plenty of documented cases of it breaking things. Partly I think that
is because MS roll too many fixes into a single patch so if one bit of it is
broken you can't install any of it.

Secondly RedHat Enterprise is free as in beer if you can be bothered to download
and build the SRPMs - it is only if you want the convenience of ready built that
you have to pay for it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Windows
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 06:50 PM EDT
When I first read this article it almost broke my skull trying to figure out
what the M$ spinmeister was trying to say. I'm not even sure he knew. Then at
the bottom of the article it became clear: the author was even MORE clueluess of
the nature of Linux than the spokesman. True, as rms would say, Linux is not
Open Source, it's Free Software (due to the GPL), but what the spokesman is
trying to say is that if you're trying to make money off Open Source, somehow
it's _not_ Open Source. Oddly, while taking a shot at Red Hat, he failed to
mention those other well known Open Source sellouts: IBM and Novell. Funny how
he missed that...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oversensationalized...
Authored by: SaveDrury on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 06:53 PM EDT
In fairness to the MS spokeshole, his quote IS out of context...

what he said was that "linux != open source" in the same way that
"labrador retrievers != dogs".

the title of the article was piss poor

the quote...

""Open source is not [solely] Linux," Vamos said. "That's
probably a little bit out there in the sense that Linux has been developed using
open source development models. I guess what I'm saying is that when you talk
about open source - the way open source is being described - is that people
generally talk about it as being Linux and I think you really need to look at
the two separately.""

nothing to see here, move along.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Win
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 06:57 PM EDT
In the mindset of these corporate dorks

1) Open Source is equivalent to free of charge.
2) Viable business model is equivalent to proprietary.

Now, observing that Red Hat has a viable business model around Linux, by (2) it
follows that Linux is propriatery. It's obvious, isn't it?

Are these people just to dumb to understand FLOSS or do they pretend to not
understand for FUD purposes, I wonder?

[ Reply to This | # ]

MS Wants Linux=RedHat=NonFree
Authored by: k12linux on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:02 PM EDT
I think it's interesting that they keep trying to paint Linux with single broad strokes. I don't believe that it's accidental that they are trying to make "Linux" synonymous with "Red Hat" and "Red Hat Enterprise Linux" synonymous with "paid-for commercial operating system."

They know that a lot of people don't really "get this Linux thing" and a little confusion can go a long way. Like PJ said, they really can't argue that Linux source code isn't available. And they can't argue that Linux can not be obtained for free.

Instead they have to give the impression that "Linux" isn't free. That you have to pay SOMEONE for it and that makes it (in some bizare way) more expensive than Windows.

They also have to fight the "warm fuzzies" that a lot of people get when they find that Linux is developed by a "community" and is a group effort given away for free. MS's cold, corporate, gold-digging reputation doesn't stand up so well against that. So, distract people away from the basics of what Linux is and turn it into a company (Red Hat.) Then MS has a little more even footing in the battle.

The thing they don't get (or seem to not get anyhow) is that Linux isn't a company, and it isn't even fighting against Windows. It's hard to compete with something that isn't competing back, especially if that something is open source. You can't starve it of cash. You can't appeal to it's greed. It's a whole new animal for MS and most of the closed-source world.

How do you convince consumers that they don't want Linux? It's hard to do when Linux only exists in the first place exactly because those same people did want it and created it themselves? So MS has to turn the attention away from the fact that it's a community of users who created Linux. They need to get those who don't understand Linux yet to associate it with Red Hat and to think of it in terms of "just another operating system."

If it exists because it's a product, they can out-market it. If it exists because people really want it, now that spells trouble for MS.

---
- k12linux

[ Reply to This | # ]

RMS agrees
Authored by: whoever57 on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:05 PM EDT
To be fair, RMS draws a distinction between Open Source and Free Software.

In his explanation, Open Source is stuff that is either public domain or BSD licensed. In other words, software that can be taken and turned into proprietary software. On the other hand Free Software (by his definition) has restrictions on its redistribution that guarantee it remains free

---
-----
For a few laughs, see "Simon's Comic Online Source" at http://scosource.com/

[ Reply to This | # ]

Groklaw losing focus?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:07 PM EDT
I realize that this is PJ's site and she can post whatever she wants to. But
personally, I would appreciate it if Groklaw could stay focused on the
"law" part. The legal system is a great unknown for most geeks, and I
quite like the idea of a community site focusing on the legal, rather than
technical or economic, aspects of the software world.

There are pleanty of other advocacy sites out there covering topics such as this
one. Please don't let Groklaw become just another
soapbox/link-propagation/rantfest.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Just switch?
Authored by: whoever57 on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:12 PM EDT
Is that not an obvious solution? Just switch to software that isn't vulnerable to the malware currently going around

I think we should be careful about making such statements. While Linux is definitely more secure, it does require maintenance. My own experience includes putting an install of RedHat 6.2 on a system and having it compromised less than 24 hours later -- my fault for not installing the patches.

Let's not forget that many Linux boxes were compromised by the Lion worm.

I am not trying to refute that Linux is more secure than MS, nor am I suggesting that MS does not have major unresolved issues regarding security; I am just trying to point out that installing Linux is not in itself a complete solution and we should not advocate that it is.

---
-----
For a few laughs, see "Simon's Comic Online Source" at http://scosource.com/

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft presenting at Vancouver Linux Users Group
Authored by: gray_eminence on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:13 PM EDT

Microsoft will be the guest speaker at the Vancouver Linux Users Group this coming Tuesday night.

They are providing pizza - as in free pizza.

Come one come all!

http://www.vanlug.bc.ca/

---

-Justin

[ Reply to This | # ]

It is also possible to download RHEL (for free..)
Authored by: eamacnaghten on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:29 PM EDT
PJ: On a side note...

It is also possible to download RedHat Enterprise as free-as-in-beer from their
FTP site and mirrors.

It is only in source form, and you need to compile and install it yourself, but
still downloadable....

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rosoff Misses the Point
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:32 PM EDT
>> The real attraction of Linux is that it is open source — anyone can
poke around in the software code, and engineers around the world can suggest
improvements. <<

No. The real attraction is that Linux is more stable and more mature than
Windows. That's the result of Linux being open source, putting it in a constant
state of code review and improvement.

Ballmer's referring to Linux as a cancer speaks volumes about his maturity
level. The only thing Linux is likely to hurt is Windows.

And how much do viruses and malware cost Windows? Take a look at
http://news.com.com/2100-7349-5142144.html
The cost was $55 billion in 2003 alone. Microsoft's TCO claims always seem to
miss this number.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Vulnerability FUD
Authored by: russgray on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:35 PM EDT
"I get disturbed when people say open source is the way to go, because it's
more secure. It's food for thought that security advisories for Linux and
Unix-based operating systems were greater during 2003 than those for Windows and
also Linux vulnerabilities are growing faster than Microsoft
vulnerabilities."

There seems to be a lot of this sort of thing knocking around recently, and it's
always disconcertingly vague. Let's take the first point - "advisories for
Linux and Unix-based operating systems" covers a whole lot of candidates
without tying MS down to anything specific. So, if you add up all the advisories
for Red Hat, Suse, Mandrake, Gentoo, Debian, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, IRIX,
and countless others, you get more than Windows? And what's the odds that
there's some additional number manipulations going on? e.g. the flaw exploited
by the Sasser worm has been around since NT4 but I bet it's only counted once,
rather than as a flaw in NT4, 2000, XP, Server 2003 etc. Not to mention the fact
that 98 and ME can spread it, even if they can't be affected.

Secondly, "Linux vulnerabilities are growing faster than MS
vulnerabilities". That's classic FUD and the worst type of statistic. Let's
say MS had 100 vulnerabilities last year and 150 this year (made up figures).
Now let's say Linux had 10 last year and 20 this year. Oh dear, Linux
vulnerabilities have doubled, whereas MS have only risen 50%, therefore Linux
vulnerabilities are growing faster. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I seem to remember that the Halloween Documents argued that FUD would not work
against the open source movement. Seems management didn't pay much attention to
their internal memos.

[ Reply to This | # ]

This 'monoculture' theorizing is crazy
Authored by: bobn on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:45 PM EDT
The problem is not that a company has all one thing. The problem is when that one thing is Microsoft.

"'This same process applies to computer systems. By designing your network so that half of your organisation's computer systems are open source Linux or BSD Unix, you will ensure that some of your computer systems will always survive the next major malware outbreak, meaning your business stays in business.'"

If this means splitting your business between Linux and *BSD, this is really dumb - since most of the open source vulnerabilities are in the apps, *not* the OS, you've just made patchng all your systems twice as hard.

If this means splitting your business between MS and one of the open source OS's, see my first point.

The amount of diversity in the typical environment is already too great, due to upgrade cycles and manpower constraints. It would be better to choose one *good* OS and concentrate of keeping it patched or other wise protected. It goes without saying that that OS should not be an MS OS.

The diversity argument would lead one to tell an all Linux or all OpenBSD shop that they must install some Windows machines. Is that a good idea?

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Fedora and KDE
Authored by: josmith42 on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 07:56 PM EDT
<p>Does anyone use KDE on Fedora? If so, do you feel
hindered by using KDE instead of GNOME with Fedora? I
prefer KDE myself, and the last time I used Redhat, it
seemed like they focused more on making GNOME integrated
with their distro stuff than KDE. I've been using SuSE
lately, but I'm always up for trying new distros.</p>

---
Forty-two: the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Who care about M$, SUN or what they say
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 08:04 PM EDT
The battle cry on the GNU/Linux front has been and continues to be free as in
*freedom*. Not necessarily free as in beer.

Redhat has every right to sell RH Linux. If people desire to purchase it ...
they will. Any other company or individual who produces a GNU GPL product can
do the samething and I say more power to them.

BTW, no OS is 100% secure. However, some are quite a bit more secure than
others.

krp

[ Reply to This | # ]

What he meant was...
Authored by: kawabago on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 08:05 PM EDT
Microsoft can't find anything bad to say about Linux so now they just stand
there and babble. That's going to sell product!

I like being able to find solutions to problems. With Windows I invariably hit
an information brick wall when I had a problem. With Linux I can always find
lots of information and if I get desperate I can even read the source code.!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Actually, MS backpedalled
Authored by: avdp on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 08:07 PM EDT
MS Backpedalled the backpedalling on Paladium a bit. The same guy from MS that was quotes as saying that their next gen security stuff (paladium) was being killed said the following day that it was "alive and kicking" ( in this article) Me thinks Bills must have given him a nasty phone call.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I'm not seeing the FUD....
Authored by: dopple on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 08:12 PM EDT
Well, at least, I'm not seeing the FUD where PJ seems to be seeing it.

It looks to me like they're basically trying to say that people/businesses shouldn't choose software based on the philosophical difference between open source and closed source, they should choose based on the value provided.

Makes sense to a point.. it's the old "right tool for the job" thing. He makes some totally unsubstantiated statements about how Windows is so much better than Linux and throws out some FUD about Linux security... but otherwise, he's got a point.

Of course, he completely ignores the fact that open source can be a big part of the value provided... he seems to think that everyone's idea of the "value" in the software shouldn't include the ability to look at the source at all. But there are situations where the access to the code can actually be irrelevant, or has a much lower relevance than other factors. So the question is, can Linux stand on its own in the situations where source code access doesn't really matter? Looks like a good number of people disagree with this guy's conclusion that it can't.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: the new suit by Rambus
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 08:16 PM EDT

<not particularly well-informed opinion>

Rambus is a company in Los Altos, CA which doesn't make anything but spins out a lot of patents, trying to predict how memory buses are likely to be configured next year, and then patenting every thing in sight which is a possibility. Their predictions are improved because they surruptitiously go the JEDEC meetings where standards are being set. They have done a pretty good job of getting some patents on things that turned out to be standards (though thought to be unencumbered when established as such) in the memory bus arena. Then they hold up the world at large with their wonderful patents. Rambus has always struck me as a opportunist monopopy operation of the worst form.

People may recall that Intel (after investing in Rambus) made a nice try at trying to switch the world over to Rambus patented technology at the beginning of the P4 era. The memory manufacturers and other decided that Rambus wasn't really a nice company, since their game was pretty much one of establish an IP "lock" and then charging absorbitant prices, and they resisted the move. Rambus lost a round, and double speed SDRAM became the next new thing, rather than the technology the Rambus had an IP lock on.

The FTC is still going after Rambus for it's successful extortion shenanigans, but an administrative law judge dealt them a setback a while back. Apparently, that administrative law judge has put new confidence into the Rambus extortion machine.

The new news is the Rambus has filed a new lawsuit against the memory manufacturers for "conspiring to block technology" (SJ Mercury description). The way I read it is: "we have a air tight monopoly on something. You guys talked with each other about it, and decided to do something other than adopty what we had a monopoly on (and charge an arm and a leg for). Shame on you, you had no right to not step into our web and adopt out technology so that you would be required to submit to our extortion. And, since you actually talked to each other about this, its a conspiracy. Please pay $1 billion."

</not particularly well-informed opinion>

I'm curious as to whether I have this anything close to right. Any opinions?

Wally Bass

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Linux operation since 1995
Authored by: tangomike on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 08:44 PM EDT
We started out using UNIX in 1989 - SCO (the real one) and Interactive. We chose
it because we needed to be "vendor independant" and de jure standards
based. We also wanted to be able to expand incrementally, rather than rip out
and replace.

Around 1994 we ran across something called Linux (rel 0.90). In 18 months we had
replaced nearly all our UNIX (sorry TSCOG, the fake one). Since then we've run
SoftLandingSystems (42 floppies to install), Slackware, TurboLinux, RedHat,
Caldera, Suse, Mepis, and several others I've forgotten. We operate more than 40
Linux systems and a couple terrabytes of storage. We have 5 Microsoft machines.
We spend 7 to 8 times as much time and effort keeping the M$ stuff up to date,
and NONE of it is in daily use; our desktops are all Linux. The Linux systems
are up a couple hundred days at a time, even with updates and software installs.
One of machines is still running release 1.59 on a 12 MHz 80486.

I've never actually messed with the kernel code. It's nice to know it's there,
and we frequently recompile kernels to suit our needs.

So why use open source?

1. Get off the Microsoft upgrade gerbil wheel.

2. Standards, standards, standards. It's the only way to protect your valuable
data over the long haul.

3. Upgrade when you need it; don't if you don't.

4. Interoperability:- we deal with computer data from 1972 to today, mainframes
to VAX to Osbornes to Apples to MICOMS, and yes Microsoft DOS 1 to XP, to name a
few. Thank GNU for Linux!

5. Support (yes, I do mean support). Even before Google, we got personal
solutions to problems in GNULinux from all over the world. I've had answers to
questions back to me in less than an hour, and offers to add features for the
next day.

The source code is a GREAT safety net, but GNULinux just keeps on going and
going and going; that's why we use it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: SCO Imitates Art
Authored by: yorgasor on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 09:01 PM EDT
I read this Calvin and Hobbes strip the other day. I just had to scan it in and share it with the rest of you. Somehow, I get the impression that SCO's planning meeting went a lot like this.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • let me guess... - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 10:52 PM EDT
    • let me guess... - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 10:29 AM EDT
Crazy Theory
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 09:20 PM EDT
<SCO Logic Mode>
I'm pretty sure this could never happen, but the thought did occur to me so I
thought I'd ask all of you this: What if the BSD code for networking and such
that Microsoft is currently using was suddenly converted to GPL? What would be
the effects of that?
It gives you something to think about- but since it seems so strange to me, I'll
lump it in the universe that contains the SCO logic (since in some alternate
universe, it could quite possibly be a primitive form of logic).

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: SCO to Linux Switch
Authored by: chrisbrown on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 10:37 PM EDT
I swapped a SCO Openserver server for a Linux server yesterday. Is this
something one rings a bell for (in the style of telemarketers making another
sale), or keeps it quiet lest lighting strike?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Can a leopard change its spots?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 11:35 PM EDT
No I'm not talking about Microsoft but Sun. Sun has been one of the strongest opponents of Microsoft for years and now people are treating it like it has become Bill's poodle.

Personally I'm willing to give Scott McNealy and Sun more time to present their position. It wouldn't surprise me to see that Sun and Microsoft start to deviate from a common position quite quickly.

Remember that Sun has much, much more experience in tangling with Microsoft than any of us have - they know what they are getting involved with. And Scott McNealy is not known for keeping quiet and avoiding controversy - I expect he will be contradicting Microsoft publically very soon!

It saddens this old-timer to see Sun dissed so easily by people who are new to this industry. It may well be that Sun is no longer relevant, but I am not prepared to write them off so soon.

dt (Sorry for posting anonomously - I created a new account but the email hasn't come through).

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: "A Suit a Day" in IT industry
Authored by: Khym Chanur on Thursday, May 06 2004 @ 11:45 PM EDT
From this E-Commerece News article on Rambus suit:
Industry observers said while it is important to take each case on its own merits, it appears that more companies are willing to take the risks associated with filing such lawsuits, in hopes that they will result in large victories or settlements that can boost the bottom line.

"Any stigma attached with being a litigant is now gone," attorney Steve London of Brown Rudnick Berlack Israels told the E-Commerce Times. "There was a time when SCO and Rambus wouldn't have gone to court because of how it would reflect on them. But now, shareholders expect and demand that companies protect their intellectual property at all costs."

That trend is likely to continue as more companies on the receiving end of lawsuits seek to reach settlements rather than endure years-long legal battles that can be costly and distracting, London added. Microsoft, Intel and AMD are among the companies that have paid out sizeable amounts to put such cases to rest in recent months.

---
Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hate to play Devil's Advocate, but...
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 01:13 AM EDT
...surely the only reason all the malware targets Windows is because Windows has
the largest user base?

If the positions were reversed, with Linux having ~90% of the worldwide user
base, don't you think all the malware would try and attack Linux?

[ Reply to This | # ]

PBS Frontline Report
Authored by: bsm2003 on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 01:17 AM EDT
Here

Very Good Article

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Not very good - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 02:01 PM EDT
(Linux == Free) -> True
Authored by: jkondis on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 02:14 AM EDT
Linux is free. One thing that will never legally happen is a Linux distro which
prohibits you from getting the kernel source or distributing the kernel source
or binaries.

Period.

Linux is better than Windows. OK, it takes a little learning to get handy with
it, but once you do that, you are a *god* compared to what experienced Windows
users can do.

Linux does exactly what you ask it to. Nothing more, nothing less. Ever try to
share drives on Win 2k to more than 10 people simultaneously? If you did, you'd
be in for a disappointment. It won't let you. Why? The shares take up too
much resources or something? No. It's an arbitrary limit M$FT put into the
software, to make you purchase Windows Server for a *lot* more money.

Ever try to attach that many shares in Linux? Linux doesn't care how many drive
shares you attach! You can give it an arbitrary limit *if*you*want*, but the
software WON'T RESTRICT YOU. I can DOWNLOAD a version of LInux for FREE and it
won't restrict me!

Ever try to put a password on a fileshare or shared printer in XP Home? XP HOME
WON'T LET YOU DO THAT. Why? Cuz they want you to fork over and buy XP
Professional for that. Imagine that! Windows 98 allowed you to password
protect fileshares. XP Home, presumably 98's most relevant upgrade version does
*not*. You have to buy the $300 package to get that "advanced
feature".

You will NEVER have that restriction in Linux. You can *always* put a password
on a Linux share (be it NFS or SMB).

Ever try to install IIS (Microsoft's web server) on XP Home? It won't let you!
It is absolutely not supported or allowed in XP Home. Even M$FT says so. But,
I can download 100 Linux versions that not only *allow* me to install apache,
they *come*with*it*. (Tips for those with XP Home: run Apache for Windows, it
works great!)

I have now switched entirely to Linux and am happy about it. It is NICE for a
change to not be running an OS that spies on me, exposes me to arbitrary
internet worms, limits what I can do with my own computer, or prevents me from
finding out exactly what it's doing.

It really is about computing freedom, freedom you will *not* get from M$FT
products. Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman will go down as two of the most
important visionaries in tech history.

---
Don't steal. Microsoft hates competition.
I got all the DRM I need. It's called Linux.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Mircrosoft at he heart of the matter
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 02:45 AM EDT

IMHO Microsoft reached the heart of the matter and is right at acting
accordingly.

The heart of the matter is freedom. Freedom of software as given by GPL.

Initially I thought RMS is a pain is the back, having access to source is good
enough. Well thats OK, unless You are to develope something for making money
from it.
Only having source (from Microsoft or Sun) is nice, but is there a real chance
to get back your changes in a supported version quickly? I doubt so.

As a software developer in quite a big company, I know that it is hard enough to
get changes and corrections from the other project. It has to cross hierarchy
barriers multiple times, each time. Now think about a Vendor - Customer
relationship. This will add delay and contractual problems - just think of some
complaints in the SCO/DaimlerChrysler case. And now add to have Microsoft or any
other Company bigger than Yours as vendor.

Why then is freedom the heart of the matter?

Well concerning software it is simple.

Starting the developement, You have a few requirements, the sheet is clean, You
can do anything quickly.
During the process, Your freedom decreases because of previous decisions.
Once You start hitting customers, features drop, features add, others become
important, most change constantly, because You are now in a learning phase.
Good architecture and implementation help to mitigate the problem, but You pay
by prolonged developement and maybe even breaking things for existing uses.

Now free software will give You the possebility to make changes, stay legal and
go on supported.

Microsoft is attacking right at the division between Free and Open Software in
order to regain influence over the minds of CxOs and other decision makers that
have not yet grasped the differences and the consequences.

First example of this strategy is the german Innenminister (secretary of state)
that devised an Open(!) Source policy only to sign in to Microsoft specific XML
later on.

So please keep the difference between open and free in Your mind and do not
laugh at Microsoft. They obviously are smart , act smart and can be very
convincing.

BR

[ Reply to This | # ]

Anti worm patches
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 03:01 AM EDT
Another possible reason why people didn't apply the patch for the Sasser worm is
fear.

These days nobody wants to be the first to apply a M$ patch. They want some
other sucker to do it first and find out what it does to their systems before
going ahead themselves.

This is just from personal experience but I have noted that applying all patches
from Redmond kind of slows your system down quite a bit.

[ Reply to This | # ]

To patch or not to patch...
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 03:42 AM EDT
"Why haven't we patched them? Everybody knows the answer: because of the
cost. There's such a continuous stream of patches from Microsoft that we can't
afford to apply every patch immediately."

Well, the another reason for not patching Window$ is that sometimes after
patching your essential software stops working.
I saw some very expensive EDA packages which stopped working after we've patched
our win2k workstations. It was necessary to reinstall the system from the
scratch (without service packs) to get them working again. The R&D was
stopped for 2 days or so...


[ Reply to This | # ]

A Point to Consider
Authored by: figures on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 04:21 AM EDT
You know I do believe that there has been more patches for Linux (and I'm
including some core services in this) than Windows so far this year, but in my
view this is a good thing.

As has been pointed out it's taken 8 years to sort out the latest MS Bug, and a
sad truth is that a lot of MS Vulnerabilities don't get patched until there's a
risk an exploit will become available.

But here's the point: With Linux, if a flaw gets found, whether it's
exploitable or not, it gets patched within 24 / 48 hours. It increases the time
before a vulenrability in the wild is likely to be found. With Sasser, what was
it...something like 5 / 6 days between patch and exploit.

I think any Sysadmin accepts we're in a world where patches are a way of life,
and most have a regular patching schedule. I think the real issue is when you
only have short timescales to update your machines.

And I can certify that a lot of the MS Patches are roling things up into single
patches. I know in a lot of rganisations this has caused issues as it's not
clear to the security teams which SMEs they need to involve in evaluating the
need to patch or not.

What someone should do is create a table of leadtimes between vulnerabilities
and exploits. I think Linux would prove to have longer timescales, which for
any company that has had to do emergency patching in the last few weeks, would
prove extremely eye-opening.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Did Steve Vamos Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 05:24 AM EDT
Steve Vamos? Hahaha, that reminds me of a funny story when Steve Vamos was MD of
Apple Australia. :)

I was at a trade show in Sydney in the mid '90s where Apple Australia had its
latest and greatest server - the Apple Network server which ran AIX - yes IBM's
AIX, and it was actually turned off because none of the Apple people had any
idea about AIX, anyway I got it running and had a look at it with one of my
fellow consultants who was helping out on the Apple stand. We even demonstrated
it to people.

Afterwards we went to an Apple sponsored drinks session. I took Steve Vamos to
task over this new server and asked how Apple expected resellers to sell and
support what was basically a rebadged IBM box when even Apple's staff couldn't
get it running - I think my comment that the only thing Apple about it was the
badge ruffled his fur. Anyway he bristled a little but seemed to handle it well.
On the way out he said that my comments were helpful and that'd he get someone
to get back to me about the questions I'd raised and asked for me and my friends
names.

The next morning (I have it on good authority) he summoned several Apple staff
members into his office and demanded that the Apple channel manager ensure that
I was fired from the dealership I worked for and my friend fired from Apple - he
was a little confused. When it was pointed out to him that we were both
independent consultants and that Apple would be unable to sack us, he exploded!

Anyway, whats the point of my story? Not much. I just thought it was funny (a
little bit topical - Steve Vamos, IBM and AIX) and that it illustrates that
sometimes people say things which they don't really mean. :(

[ Reply to This | # ]

Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Win
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 07:02 AM EDT

Hello,

You obviously haven't heard of or seen or remembered code access agreements from
the likes of Microsoft or Sun, which are touted as open source.

The whole point was to elaborate existing and (in real life) noticable
differences between open and free source. They may not matter to private usage,
but they certainly matter in comercial settings. They are now the weak point
that is attacked by Microsoft FUD or "disinformation".

BR

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: EU Irish Presidency goes for Patents, sponsored by Microsoft.
Authored by: Mike Calder on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 07:44 AM EDT
This Wednesday the Irish Presidency of the EU went for a bypass of the
democratic process in the EU Parliament and managed to "secure a qualified
majority for a counter-proposal to the software patents directive, with only a
few countries - including Belgium and Germany - showing resistance. This
proposal discards all limiting amendments from the European Parliament and
reinstates the laxist provisions from the Commission, adding direct
patentability of data structures and process descriptions as icing on the
cake."

For more details, see http://swpat.ffii.org/news/04/cons0507/

The Irish Presidency of the EU proudly announces it is sponsored by Microsoft
and Dell:

http://www.eu2004.ie/sitetools/sponsorship.asp

[ Reply to This | # ]

Poor analogy of American Revolutionary War
Authored by: stuart_hc on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 08:12 AM EDT
I found the analogy to the American Revolutionary War particularly grating since
the characterisation that is was "a new kind of war" is contrary to
historians who characterise it largely as a war of attrition, which was very
much an old technique at the time. The analogy is further weakened by ignoring
the importance of British and French naval technology. I have attempted to be
objective in my analysis (I am neither British, American, French nor Spanish).

No matter which version of history you prefer, using an analogy to a war where
atrocities were committed by all sides may not be considered appropriate in this
context. The excellent analysis of the "Linux is not Open Source?"
issue would have been even better had the analogy been avoided.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Toronto LUG turned down MS offer
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 09:21 AM EDT
The Toronto LUG got a similar offer, but the consensus was that most people did
not want to have them come, even with free food.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Linux isn't open source?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 10:02 AM EDT
I've compiled all of my kernels from source i've downloaded from the net. (For
free, too, if that matters).

[ Reply to This | # ]

Steve Vamos is talking BS
Authored by: joeblakesley on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 10:56 AM EDT
At risk of stating the obvious the alleged comments by Vamos are BS. It would
be interesting to see a transcript of exactly what he said. But going on what
the article says...

>>Linux is not free<<

Hello, its released under the GNU GPL--the de facto free license
<http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/COPYING>. The source is available at
http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.5.tar.bz2 (or
./linux-2.6.5.tar.gz) gratis too.

>>open source is a development methodology<<

Hmmm...I think he'll actually find that most source is available to the
developers during development usually (hence calling it source)...hmmm...maybe
that is were MS having been gonig wrong all along...their programmers cannot see
their own source...they have to type at keyboards blind...actually they use
monkey randomly typing at keyboards don't they?

>>should not be confused with the commercial nature of Linux
distributions.<<

As well as being a meaningless statement like "apples should not be
confused with oranges", it should be pointed out that there is a lot of
non-commercial distribution of Linux-based GNU distributions. I just bought a
pile of different ditros on CD but I am now copying them and giving copies to
other people non-commercially. It is hard to quantify non-commercial
distribution of free software but undoubtedley there is an awful lot of it
(probably more than commercial).


>>Open source is not [solely] Linux<<

Full marks for noticing that one can get source for more than one program.
Microsoft research department has obviosuly been let loose on the WWW again.

>>That's probably a little bit out there in the sense that Linux has been
developed using open source development models.<<

I dare anyone to make any grammatical or semantic sense out of that sentence.
The more you read it the more confusing it gets.


>>I guess what I'm saying is that when you talk about open source - the
way open source is being described - is that people generally talk about it as
being Linux and I think you really need to look at the two separately.<<

No one says "open source is Linux". For a start one is an adjective
and the other a noun so it wouldn't make sense. "Linux is open
source" makes sense though and that is true.

>>it is already doing some good work for customers...the open source
debate tends to be one that's about philosophy and views<<

That doesn't make any sense to me.

>>When you talk about Linux versus Windows, you're talking about which
operating system is the best value for money and fit for purpose. That's a very
basic decision customers can make if they have the information available to
them.<<

How enlightening. Assuming he is talking about GNU and MSW here, I assume this
is why MS are trying there hardest not to make that information available to the
customer (because they might find that MSW sucks).


I cannot go no reading this stuff but he then goes on about the "choice
between open source and commercial" despite saying earler that all open
source is commercial-- of course, some is, some isn't.


---
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT - SUSE 9.1
Authored by: utahbob55 on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 11:12 AM EDT

In a previous topic someone mentioned that it was hard to find the personal edition of 9.1. I found it rather easily on the SUSE site at the marvelous price of $29.95. (This is the US site/price).

I also notice that 9.1 is not in a red box, as had been mentioned. About the only thing that I do notice, is that instead of spelling their name as "SuSE" it is now spelled "SUSE" and they add the tag: "A Novell Company". This page also has a link to download the "Live" CD. I tried it and it stills starts with KDE! Coolness. I love new toys!

Bob

[ Reply to This | # ]

wow, someone is getting a note from PR
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 01:49 PM EDT
I just read the article and I’m now more baffled. Did he mean that RedHat Linux
was not open source? If so, how could it not be if the source code is included
with purchase? In fact I believe you can download the source of almost anything
RedHat offers. Redhat Is obviously following the GPL, therefore it's OpenSouce.

The idea of open source is just that, the source code is open to the end user.

Off topic: When ever I see an article that I believe is "Off topic,"
guess what? I don’t click on the link.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Win
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 02:03 PM EDT
Your historical example is more myth than fact. The States were losing badly
until Valley Forge when Von Stueben taught the americans how to fight the
european way. And it wasn't until the french provided troops and support and
the americans won some battles the euopran way that the war was decided.

As with Linux, until it competes on a commercial enterprise product level it is
no threat to M$, no matter how much innovation is involved. Now that it is
competing (Red Hat, IBM, etc.) it has a chance of winning.

[ Reply to This | # ]

[OT] Royal Bank of Canada to convert all their A-1 stock
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 02:42 PM EDT
http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/prn/laf054.P1.05072004140050.13648
.htm

what exactly does this mean?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Sneaky FUD In Wired Article
Authored by: TAZ6416 on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 04:43 PM EDT
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,63345-2,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_nex
t1

The article is about spyware but the Microsoft bloke said

"Finally, Friedberg cautions Internet users to pay extra attention to
offers of free software. "Be suspicious," he said. "When
something's free, there's likely a catch."

Crafty bugger ;)

Jonathan

[ Reply to This | # ]

You kidding??
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 04:53 PM EDT
Are you kidding that RMS is not against proprietary software?? In fact, he's
built his whole career on strictly and firmly opposing it. He calls it
anti-social and anti-your-neighboor.
You must be confusing RMS with the flaky-shaky Eric Raymond or Bruce Perens.

[ Reply to This | # ]

WiX and stix can break my bones ...
Authored by: tanstaafl on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 05:44 PM EDT
If MS decides to release their system as FOSS, that's not a loss for Gnu/Linux,
it's a win for FOSS! Like the Bayesian filters for spam on Mozilla and other
FOSS browsers, which a spammer can only consistently bypass by sending non-spam
spam, open-source code from MS is still open-source. If MS thinks they can
'beat' FOSS by opening _their_ source, I say more power to 'em!

[ Reply to This | # ]

a dare, if you will
Authored by: pyrite on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 05:44 PM EDT
I know - I would capitalize "I", but I can't because "I" is
already a capital - so let's do it this way - _I_ know that Linux is a better
choice for many things, amongst those things, scientific workstations. (I am a
big fan of scientific workstations, and science in general). Windows might be
better for gaming, or if you want to use Microsoft Office, for instance.

So here is the dare part. Confidence. Think confidence. OK - I know, or _I_ know
that Linux is better for scientific workstations. I am confident that I will
continue to know this fact, and I am confident that others, like me, will also
continue to find that Linux is a better choice for certain things (like
scientific workstations).

So dare to just "shhhhhhh" be quiet. Dare to "use your Linux
scientific workstation in peace". Dare. Things might happen, dangers exist;
risks exist in life. But for some things, Linux is a better choice. People that
know this aren't going to choose some other OS, perhaps unless it has to do with
funding, but in any case - dare to just relax.

Of course that's not easy, because there is much pressure to motivate yourself
to be anti-whatever. For fear of not having a choice. But what I don't see, when
I _really_ think about it, is how, computers being so new as they are, how can
we move from the "computer" evolving into a more diverse set of
things, to a "computer" meaning Micrsoft products and OS's. There are
Apples, there are Crays, there are IBM mainframes. Logic and entropy dictate
that we will see MORE computers in the future, a greater diversity of computers
in the future than we have now, not less. It would be extremely surprising to
have it be any other way.

You can compare it to cars, and automobile manufacturers - there are more, and
lots of them go out of business, but there are, generally speaking, or
"is", there is, generally speaking, a greater selection of cars, not
lesser.

So the dare, the dare is this. Don't worry. Relax. Dare to remain quiet -
because that's how much better Linux is for certain applications. And, it's
getting better all the time. The "competition", or the "other
options" can talk until they are hoarse in the throat and blue in the face.
All that will get them is another increase in the kernel version number. Time is
on Linux's side. That's how confident _I_ am about Linux. There is no need to
push it, there is a need to push people away from asking questions about it.
Time to coin a new phrase, especially for Groklaw: RTM. "Read The
Manual". Who needs four letters in the acronym anyway. Read The Manual, and
if you still don't understand, then ask me questions. As opposed to "I
really want you to use Linux, so I will answer all of your questions for free
and I will do everything I can to make the experience easier for you,
etc..." I think it's high time that Linux stands up to the world on its own
merits (I think it is already doing that). Just let it be, let Linux be itself,
because when you create a quality product, when you create a product that is
good, and works real good, you will have customers - you will have the respect
of your customers. Advertising it, pushing it, having specials on it, that, in a
way, minimizes the product, and makes it look "cheap". Just let Linux
be, let it stand on its own merits. That's all you really need to do. Dare.

So "dare" to relax; "dare" to remain calm. Dare to NOT
promote Linux to everyone you meet. Have it be your little secret. I dare you.

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Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Win
Authored by: radix2 on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 06:51 PM EDT
There is a group within our company that does not wish to purchase Office XP (or
greater) at the rate of 400'ish Australian Dollars. So we looked at letting them
run Office 97 on a "modern" operating system which is currently our
standard (this is Windows XP). Guess what. All support for MSO97 from Microsoft
stopped on 20 Jan 2004, meaning that it is EOL'd and an important security
hotfix or such could break MSO97.

OK. This is standard practice and quite acceptable. MSO97 is after all 7 years
old. But (and we are looking at this seriously), we are not going to force them
to buy Office XP. We are going to trial Open Office for this group. That will
save approx AUD28000 directly. Plus, we won't have to buy Adobe Writer licences
which should save another AUD7000 or so.

That is just the thin edge of the wedge. All up (and I believe that most could
use OO without loss of functionality) we could save AUD300,000 in purchase cost
for the remainder of the users. This is not an unsubstantial amount for an
annual IT budget of about AUD1Mill.

Has anyone else dipped their toe in the water? What was your take-out from it?

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Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Windows
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT

REDHAT is a Linux variant that stands for a Subscription based/Extended service
and support distro.

FEDORA (is a Red Hat Linux variant) that stands for community supported distro.

If you want REDHAT distro without support and totally free then get FEDORA.

REDHAT is a distro that packages stable binaries from FEDORA, IMO. AS Fedora, is
mostly where they apply new things before implementing it in a more stable
version with REDHAT distro.

DO THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHARGE / MAKE MONEY ON THE REDHAT DISTRO? YES.
(Because it also comes with Warranty)

SO , is REDHAT (company) true to GPL and OPEN SOURCE. YES!!!

Unless if you have the brain of Microsoft and still don't get the OPEN
SOURCE/GPL model for more than a decade you'll end up the same attitude against
FOSS.

Moreover, Linux != REDHAT

There are lots of Linux Distros out there.

OPEN SOURCE IS NOT LINUX (because there are lots of sofware based on open
source) .... BUT LINUX IS OPEN SOURCE (The reverse is always true).

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Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Win
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 07 2004 @ 11:25 PM EDT
What Microsoft fails to mention is that several of their core components in
Windows is BSD License code. Internet Explorer was developed using the Motif (I
forget the exact name now) open source code. Also, all of MS TCP/IP is directly
from BSD Code. Its funny how their core Internet code is based on Open Source.

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Now you're being racist
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, May 08 2004 @ 09:24 PM EDT
First Sun are "the Dark Side", now the British are "failed old school" and America is "The One True Way". There's really no need to get into the war of independence here. It's a slippery slope from there to Hitler comparisons, and that kills any thread.

RedHat is *NOT* Free. Just like JDS isn't. Neither advertise the GPL (because it isn't required, PJ!). Both have proprietary content. Neither can be copied and resold as-is.

And it could be suggested, that killing both RedHat and SuSE would actually hurt Linux very badly (but probably not GNU, who've been doing fine without Linux, thanks very much).

Too much unrelated rant in here to respond seriously, though.

Has Groklaw turned into "IBM and Linux companies (apart from Sun) are Good; Others are Evil" simplicity?

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Did a Microsoft Spokesman Just Say "Linux Is Not Open Source"? -- And The Cost of Malware on Windows
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 09 2004 @ 06:42 PM EDT
Open souce but not free. That's what Red Hat enterprise
Linux is. Anyone can download the source and build it for
the cost of the Internet connection. Microsoft of course
is distorting the fact to their advantage.

Not that I have any love lust for Red Hat after their
move, but unlike microsoft I discuss on facts.

[ Reply to This | # ]

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