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| Lindows Judge Proposes MS Suspend Overseas Actions or Lose Permission to Appeal |
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Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:07 PM EST
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The Lindows hearing yesterday resulted in the judge in Seattle suggesting Microsoft should suspend its overseas legal pursuit of Lindows until the US case is settled, or he will withdraw his permission to let the company appeal his ruling against them in the US and they will have to go directly to trial. When a judge tells you that, it means he is not pleased. The ruling MS is appealing is Judge Coughenour's decision that jurors will have to decide if Windows was a generic term before the mid-1980s. If they decide it was, it would mean it has no trademark protection for Lindows to infringe.
Forbes has the story. Microsoft has to make up its mind fast. They are scheduled to appear in an Amsterdam court on Tuesday. They had asked the court there to fine Lindows $123,410 for every day their website was accessible by folks in Benelux countries. In January the Netherlands judge ruled Lindows couldn't use the name there, because he said it infringed Windows' trademark. MS has also won preliminary injunctions in Finland and Sweden, all post the US matter going against them. Lindows brought the overseas actions to the US judge's attention in a live hearing yesterday, leading to the judge's proposed solution. There is no order yet. But this just hasn't been Microsoft's week.
eWEEK's Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols has reactions from Lindows and Microsoft: "According to Michael Robertson, Lindows.com's CEO, in an eWEEK.com interview, 'The judge expressed displeasure that he had granted the right to an interim appeal because he was content with the status quo. But Microsoft took advantage of that to file clandestine actions in other jurisdictions trying to shut us down. When the judge mentioned that it might make sense to suspend international actions to keep the appeal possible in the U.S., Microsoft said they did not like that option.'"Microsoft spokeswoman Stacy Drake McCredy said of Lindows effort: 'This is a
baseless effort by Lindows to avoid the jurisdiction of international courts
where they are violating local trademark laws. If Lindows does not believe it
can reasonably comply with a preliminary injunction issued in a given
country, then it is most appropriate for them to raise the issue with the
court that rendered the injunction.'" The article says that if Microsoft doesn't accept the proposed solution, the judge is expected to rule shortly.
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:39 PM EST |
| Finally some good news for the Lindows folks. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: brenda banks on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:44 PM EST |
kind of ironic that M$ resents EU taking action against them but wants to hop
from court to court against Lindows
talk about hypocrisy.must be strange to feel that way.i cant imagine feeling
that since i have all this money and power i can dictate to courts and
governments around the world.they really need to be taught they arent above the
law
---
br3n
irc.fdfnet.net #groklaw
"sco's proof of one million lines of code are just as believable as the
raelians proof of the cloned baby"[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: WhiteFang on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:48 PM EST |
This is just too kewl for words.
This hasn't been MS's _month_ much less week.
/me chortles with glee.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:50 PM EST |
... is PJ's insight into the legal minds. I would not have known that a
statement such as what this judge made was an indication of his displeasure.
PJ's explanations of what certain legal terms mean and what a lawyer or judge
means when they write or say such and such are a pleasure to read. (With the
sum total of my courtroom experience consisting of quietly standing off to the
side while the guy who caused the accident got raked over the coals, my abililty
to decipher what a judge or lawyer says and how that reflects their feelings or
whether it means a case is in trouble, etc. is severely limited. And, BTW, I
rather like not having that firsthand experience. :-) ) So many accounts of
legal proceedings are about as interesting as reading your basic EULA. Thanks
for not providing more of that. (Well, sometimes you do but you
always explain it so that us non-legal types can actually understand it.) That
alone makes this site a valuable source. Well, for me anyway.
--
R
[ Reply to This | # ]
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- One of the things I like about this site... - Authored by: PJ on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:55 PM EST
- One of the things I like about this site... - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:02 PM EST
- One of the things I like about this site... - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:25 PM EST
- One of the things I like about this site... - Authored by: inode_buddha on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:02 PM EST
- One of the things I like about this site... - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:18 PM EST
- Re: GEM - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:29 PM EST
- Re: GEM - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 11:24 PM EST
- Re: GEM - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 02:52 AM EST
- Dates - Authored by: AdamBaker on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 05:06 AM EST
- Dates - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 09:50 AM EST
- Dates - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 27 2004 @ 03:01 AM EST
- Don't forget the BLIT (was Dates) - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 10:48 PM EST
- Re: GEM - Authored by: IdleTime on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 12:53 PM EST
- Legal Clarifications - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 12:49 AM EST
- One of the things I like about this site... - Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 29 2004 @ 01:52 PM EST
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| Authored by: jkondis on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:52 PM EST |
Wow. A Seattle judge no less.
Something tells me Senator Murray will have a few harsh words for the judge
tomorrow. Are liberals (Murray is a Democrat) going to start using the term
"activist judges" now?
...J[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Lindows Judge Proposes MS Suspend Overseas Actions or Lose Permission to Appeal - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:58 PM EST
- Lindows Judge Proposes MS Suspend Overseas Actions or Lose Permission to Appeal - Authored by: radix2 on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:58 PM EST
- Senator Murray is out to lunch - Authored by: Ed L. on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:03 PM EST
- ROFL! - Authored by: overshoot on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:13 PM EST
- OT and tiresome - Authored by: Duster on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:49 PM EST
- Agreed - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:37 PM EST
- Lindows Judge Proposes MS Suspend Overseas Actions or Lose Permission to Appeal - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:45 PM EST
- Lindows Judge Proposes MS Suspend Overseas Actions or Lose Permission to Appeal - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 12:48 AM EST
- Lindows Judge Proposes MS Suspend Overseas Actions or Lose Permission to Appeal - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 12:23 PM EST
- Lindows Judge Proposes MS Suspend Overseas Actions or Lose Permission to Appeal - Authored by: TobiasBXL on Sunday, March 28 2004 @ 01:00 PM EST
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:58 PM EST |
Patty Murray is trying to help Microsoft.
Maria Cantwell is a Real Networks millionaire.
Both are staunch Democrats.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: whoever57 on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:01 PM EST |
| Look at
this
page over on the Mothley Fool. Did the guy go to sleep during the
anti-trust trial and not wake up? Note to Dick Hagstrom: If
Microsoft is guilty of choking the competition to the detriment of consumers,
let's see that evidence.
Err.. how about a guilty verdict. You
know, a verdict that makes Microsoft guilty convicted monopolist? You know, the
part of the findings of the original judge that were not over turned on
appeal? ---
-----
For a few laughs, see "Simon's Comic Online Source" at
http://scosource.com/index.html [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Jude on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:47 PM EST |
... on this issue of whether or not "Windows" is a trademark. ISTR
that Fox News recenty sued an author for allegedly infringing on their
"Fair and Balanced" trademark, and the judge told Fox they had a lousy
trademark and threw the case out.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: darkonc on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:18 PM EST |
| The ruling MS is appealing is Judge Coughenour's decision that jurors will
have to decide if Windows was a generic term before the mid-1980s.
Heh..
The X-Window system people hate having they system be called X-Windows.
Seems that, whatever they do, they can't get rid of that trailing 's'. It's
been a problem for them since the '80's. If they can' get rid of the
windows moniker, I have a hard time believing that MS can successfully claim to
own it.
I can, however, easily understand why MS doesn't want the jury to
have to decide if 'Windows' was generic before the '80s. If it's a question of
fact before a Jury, it's gonna be near impossible to appeal. Once you've
decided that windows is generic, there's not much law to appeal... and I can't
see your average jury saying that Windows wasn't generic in
1982. ---
Powerful, committed communication. Touching the jewel within each
person and bringing it to life.. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: chaz_paw on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 10:49 PM EST |
I have been following the Lindows saga for a long time. I am almost estatic at
the judge's propaosals. IMHO, it is about time that someone made an attempt to
level the playing field. Only time will tell, but I have felt all along that
Lindows would win this firefight.
I am still using Microsoft Windows, but I will convert to OSS someday soon. I am
beginning to get the feeling, and a wonderful feeling it is, that Microsoft has
seen its peak, and that everything else is downhill.
Who do you trust? I know who I don't.
Charles
---
United we stand.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 12:25 AM EST |
This was confusing to me at first because it was reported as a deal. Microsoft
drops the overseas challenges and the court will let it appeal the decision on
considering if Windows was generic back in 1982. But, but I thought Microsoft
was already appealing that decision! OOhhh, yeah, it turns out what the judge
is really saying is that if you do NOT drop these suits, I will rescind that
permission and force you into jury trial in these terms!
Such a deal!![ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 01:32 AM EST |
is anyone in the area? i was wanting to know if we could get the court docs.
thanks
Oninoshiko (oninoshikoATmisatoDOTevangelionDOTnu)[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 03:25 AM EST |
Groklaw spokesperson Anonymous User said of Microsoft effort: 'This is a
baseless effort by Microsoft to avoid the jurisdiction of European courts where
they are violating local anti-monopoly laws. If Microsoft does not believe it
can reasonably comply with a ruling issued in a given country, then it is most
appropriate for them to raise the issue with the court that rendered the
injunction.'
[And not with US Senators and the WTO.]
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: phildriscoll on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 04:04 AM EST |
If my addled brain remembers correctly, all the early
window based GUI stuff (e.g. the Xerox stuff, Apple Lisa
etc) was referred to as a WIMP environment - standing (at
least in the common usage in the UK) for Windows Icons
Menus Pointer.
I'm sure that the terminology was in wide use in the
computer business before M$ released Windows 1.0.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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- WIMP - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 04:34 AM EST
- WIMP - Authored by: nattt on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 08:11 AM EST
- WIMP - Authored by: TomWiles on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 12:51 PM EST
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| Authored by: the_flatlander on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 05:04 AM EST |
"Microsoft spokeswoman Stacy Drake McCredy said of Lindows
effort: 'This is a baseless effort by Lindows to avoid the jurisdiction of
international courts where they are violating local trademark laws. If Lindows
does not believe it can reasonably comply with a preliminary injunction issued
in a given country, then it is most appropriate for them to raise the issue with
the court that rendered the injunction.'"
Wow. That is sort
of breath-taking. This is the same Microsoft that claims European Laws
shouldn't apply to them because they are a US company? Suddenly they seem to
have a great deal of [inexplicable] respect for 'local' jurisdictions. [grinds
teeth]
The Flatlander [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: heretic on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 12:59 PM EST |
This might be of interest: guidebook, a website
dedicated to preserving and showcasing Graphical User Interfaces.
heretic
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: BrianW on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 01:02 PM EST |
LindowsOS happens to be my distribution of choice on my home machines. I think
it has a dumb name, but its first general release, 3.0, was the first Linux
distribution that provided the capability I needed to wipe MS Windows from my
desktop forever. Additionally, I chose Lindows because Michael Robertson is
engaging MS directly, refusing to stoop to the level of trash-talking or even
competing with other Linux distros. He sees Microsoft as his ONLY competition
on the desktop. To be sure, Robertson has a penchant for picking fights and
playing the “I’m not touching you” game. At first I thought Robertson was
“asking for it” by selecting the Lindows name. But even though I didn’t
appreciate his tactics, I could find no fault with his basic philosophy,
beliefs, business ethics, or agenda with regard to the future of Linux on the
desktop. And after reading up on the case, I realized that MS might actually
fail in its effort to sue Lindows out of existence, at least with respect to the
trademark issue. And if MS loses its own Windows trademark as a result of its
own intransigence, so much the better.
I truly had no intention of becoming a hippie radical and adopting an anti-MS
agenda. Really, all I wanted was for my computer to work. But now that I’ve
tasted freedom, my former enslavement enrages me all the more. I’ve given Bill
Gates enough of my time and money. He gets no more. And because of the
tremendous regret I feel in having given so much of my income to Microsoft, I’m
quite happy to financially support a Linux distribution whose radical founder is
hell-bent on spending his fortune just to be a thorn in the side of MS. I
originally selected LindowsOS on its merits alone, but to the small extent that
my Linux distro selection has contributed to the annoyance of the mosquito
buzzing around Goliath’s head, my thirst for vengeance has been fulfilled.
Oh, and I almost forgot: I think CNR is great, and I can’t wait for 5.0! ;-)
Go, Lindows!
---
//Brian
#define IANAL[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: leopardi on Friday, March 26 2004 @ 07:16 PM EST |
I did a quick search in Google Groups and turned up a
small number of items from 1981-1983. From these, I
selected the following sample. In each case the first
article listed here is the oldest reference that Google
Groups found for that search term.
The conclusion is that on the newsgroups of the time, the
term windows was used in reference to Xerox projects
during 1981-1982, in reference to Apple Lisa from Feb 1983
onwards, and in reference to Microsoft Windows from Nov
1983 onwards.
Xerox windows:
Are Windows Necessary?
fa.apollo - 13 Jun 1981 by dlw@MIT-AI
Window Management Part II: Personal Communications
net.works - 11 Jun 1982 by watmath!csc
Apple Lisa windows:
Lisa lang's (incl. Smalltalk)
net.micro - 11 Feb 1983 by utcsrgv!peterr
Windows
net.works - 29 Apr 1983 by Mishkin@YALE.ARPA
"Microsoft Windows":
new Sharp portable, Microsoft Windows OS
net.micro.pc - 12 Nov 1983 by Peter Rowley
VisiON vs Microsoft Windows
net.micro.pc - 16 Nov 1983 by SK%MIT-MC@sri-unix.UUCP
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: PeteS on Saturday, March 27 2004 @ 08:57 AM EST |
| There is an Excellent
history of the Graphical User Interface at Wikipedia
I remember much of this work
being done at the time (that rather dates me). Note that the first commercial
launch of a Windowed system (not very successful but that is immaterial) was
in 1981.
---
Today's subliminal thought is:
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 01 2004 @ 10:23 AM EST |
Screenshot of early Windows (Version 1.0.4)
http://bochs.sourceforge.net/screenshot/win104.gif[ Reply to This | # ]
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