decoration decoration
Stories

GROKLAW
When you want to know more...
decoration
For layout only
Home
Archives
Site Map
Search
About Groklaw
Awards
Legal Research
Timelines
ApplevSamsung
ApplevSamsung p.2
ArchiveExplorer
Autozone
Bilski
Cases
Cast: Lawyers
Comes v. MS
Contracts/Documents
Courts
DRM
Gordon v MS
GPL
Grokdoc
HTML How To
IPI v RH
IV v. Google
Legal Docs
Lodsys
MS Litigations
MSvB&N
News Picks
Novell v. MS
Novell-MS Deal
ODF/OOXML
OOXML Appeals
OraclevGoogle
Patents
ProjectMonterey
Psystar
Quote Database
Red Hat v SCO
Salus Book
SCEA v Hotz
SCO Appeals
SCO Bankruptcy
SCO Financials
SCO Overview
SCO v IBM
SCO v Novell
SCO:Soup2Nuts
SCOsource
Sean Daly
Software Patents
Switch to Linux
Transcripts
Unix Books

Gear

Groklaw Gear

Click here to send an email to the editor of this weblog.


You won't find me on Facebook


Donate

Donate Paypal


No Legal Advice

The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

Here's Groklaw's comments policy.


What's New

STORIES
No new stories

COMMENTS last 48 hrs
No new comments


Sponsors

Hosting:
hosted by ibiblio

On servers donated to ibiblio by AMD.

Webmaster
Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Monday, March 15 2004 @ 08:36 PM EST

There is an article in CIO magazine on GNU/Linux use in business. It's called "The Myths of Open Source," and one by one it debunks them, by interviewing executives who have made the switch already and are happy with GNU/Linux for their business use.

The myths thoroughly debunked are:

  • MYTH 1 - THE ATTRACTION IS THE PRICE TAG ( It's performance improvement.)
  • MYTH 2 - THE SAVINGS AREN'T REAL (". . .there's a zero marginal cost of scale because open source doesn't require additional licenses as an installation grows.")
  • MYTH 3 - THERE'S NO SUPPORT ( ". . .existing users of open-source software appear perfectly happy with open-source support arrangements.")
  • MYTH 4 - IT'S A LEGAL MINEFIELD (If you're worried, third-party indemnification is an option.)
  • MYTH 5 - OPEN SOURCE ISN'T FOR MISSION-CRITICAL APPLICATIONS ( Are banks mission-critical enough for you?)
  • MYTH 6 - OPEN SOURCE ISN'T READY FOR THE DESKTOP ("Siemens, for example, says it has performed extensive testing with 'real-world, nontechnical workers,' finally declaring that Linux has now matured as a desktop system. The tests confounded the company's expectations.")

The bottom line, the article says, is summed up by Andy Mulholland, chief technology officer for Cap Gemini Ernst & Young:

"'The lesson of the Web is that standardization is better than differentiation,' Mulholland claims. 'Is there a virtue in doing things differently? Is there a virtue in doing things the same way as everybody else?' As the past decade has shown, standardization with a proprietary flavor—think Microsoft—has its drawbacks: bloatware, security loopholes, eye-popping license fees and an unsettling reliance upon a single vendor. In offices around the globe, an era of open-source standardization, determined to condemn such drawbacks to history, may be dawning."


Of course, the legal angle is the part I am most interested in, and the article quotes some attorneys who mock SCO's GPL-is-unconstitutional claim, calling it "silly" and "bizarre". I'm pointing it out for you journalists, just so you know there are independent attorneys watching SCO's claims and finding them silly and bizarre. Now that SCO is pushing their "independent" attorneys, I thought you'd like some legal resources to contact.

InternetWeek adds this:

"But to business and IT managers, open source isn't about code we don't have to pay for. In this case, free means freedom, as in the freedom to choose and use software as we wish, with no proprietary barriers.

"Look at it this way: We've been on a product-upgrade treadmill for the past decade, and we've learned that the lack of choice about when to stop upgrading some products can be costly. If one company controls the source code and doesn't let others patch and update as they see fit, we consumers are forced to upgrade--no freedom there. Open source, on the other hand, lets financial managers control the timing of their cash outflows. Given the financial principle of the 'time value' of money (the same amount of money is worth more now than it is later), the freedom to upgrade when and if we want can contribute to successful financial management. Sounds like capitalism to me."

ComputerWorld has an article, "Big Business Opens Up to Linux", and someone suggests that you factor in “the lack of viruses when calculating TCO.”

A Positive Word About SCO

Since Mr. McBride, in his interview with Dan Farber, complained that Groklaw never says anything positive about SCO, I wish to turn over a new leaf. Here is something I can honestly thank SCO for, all their contributions to the Linux community.

For example, on this page, on their website, they list what they call "SCO Community Contributions", including to the Linux kernel and to RPM. Here's what they say about RPM:

"RPM 1.0 was developed with SCO funds. Working with Red Hat, we developed the first package manager."

The RPM page adds:

"RPM 1.0 was developed with SCO funds. As business partners with Red Hat back then, we used their Linux system as the base for our SCO Network Desktop product. We needed a more robust package management system than the RPP system they were using at the time. Therefore, SCO helped fund the development of RPM."

Here is what they say about their contributions to the kernel:

"SCO has contributed several Linux kernel enhancements, including Windows support, IPX support, NFS, and more."

Indeed, as Groklaw has chronicled already, they are being modest, and there is "more". This page provides the same list they had back in November of 2002, so maybe they don't realize they still have this page on their website. They might want to rewrite this part:

"Knowing the importance of the development community, SCO continues to contribute to the open-source and development community. Here are some of the contributions we have made and are making to the community."

All their kernel contributions they list are on the Linux Kernel page and they include:

  • Minor modifications to enhance support for Windows environments like Sun's Wabi and WINE (Ron Holt)

  • Initial release of the Sangoma frame relay driver (Jim Freeman)

  • Extensive work on the kernel's IPX support (Greg Page, Jim Freeman)

  • SPX support (Jim Freeman)

  • Certain mutations of the kernel's NFS support (Olaf Kirch)

  • Initial release of the TLAN network card driver (James Banks)

  • Dynamic PPP channel work (Jim Freeman)

  • Early support of the SMP development effort (hardware provided to the SMP development team)

  • General occasional kernel hacking and patching (Torsten Duwe)

  • Help with the original IBM Token Ring driver (Greg Page)

They also, they say, contributed to the Uniform Driver Interface Project, which they describe like this:

"The UDI Project intends to allow a single device driver to support an I/O card across the platforms and operating systems appropriate for its interconnect."

The UDI page on SCO's site adds:

"SCO International, Inc. (SCO) is advancing the state of the art in device driver technology. As an active member of Project UDI, the industry group that designed UDI (the Uniform Driver Interface), SCO has worked jointly with a number of system vendors and IHVs, including Adaptec, Compaq, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel, Interphase, Lockheed Martin, SBS Technologies, STG, Sun Microsystems and Unisys, to define and promote a cross-vendor, cross-platform device driver interface.

You can download the UDI Feature Supplement and Development Kit for UnixWare 7.1.1 from the SCO Download Site Select "UnixWare 7 Release 7.1.1 UDI Feature Supplement" as the product name. This product is based on the final review draft of the 1.01 UDI Specifications.

The UDI 1.01 specification set is available from Project UDI .

UDI is a device driver interface that allows one driver to be run on a variety of operating systems. A driver that is coded to the UDI specification can run on any operating system for which UDI support is available; it will no longer need to be rewritten to use each system's specific set of functions and structures. A driver coded to UDI would use UDI interfaces rather than DDI, SDI, MDI or other proprietary OS interfaces. Generally, though, the same functionality, or a superset, is available in UDI.

Implementations of the UDI environment have been demonstrated on UnixWare 7, OpenServer, and UnixWare 2.1, along with operating systems from other vendors. See the Project UDI web site for a complete list.

UDI support will be included in all SCO operating systems, including OpenServer, UnixWare 7, and Monterey-64."

If you click on the link to the UDI project, the specifications page says it is "hosted by Caldera". Here's the page of papers from SCO Forum 1999 on UDI. One of them, "UDI HDK Roadmap" by Matt Kaufman, mentions on page 2 that UDI would be incorporated into Project Monterey, as well as all SCO OSs. What I'm wondering about is, do SCO's ABI files enter into this project? Maybe some of SCO's partners on the UDI project could take a look in their files and see what SCO contributed and under what terms. Here is a list of some of the folks who were given credit for UDI IA-32/IA-64 ABI Binding Specification, Version 1.01:

"The authors would especially like to thank their significant others for putting up with the many hours of overtime put into the development of this specification over long periods. Thanks to the following folks who contributed significant amounts of time, ideas, or authoring in support of the development of this specification or in working on the prototype implementations which helped us validate the specification:

  • Allyn Bowers (Intel)
  • Steve Bytnar (System Technologies Group)
  • Mark Evenson (HP)
  • Kurt Gollhardt (SCO)
  • Matt Kaufmann (SCO)
  • Robert Lipe (SCO)
  • Scott Popp (SCO)
  • Kevin Quick (Interphase)
  • John Ronciak (Intel)
  • Rob Tarte (Pacific CodeWorks)
  • Linda Wang (Sun)
  • Finally, thanks to David Roberts (Certek Software Designs) for designing the Project UDI logo.

As it happens, UDI was not universally popular with the Linux folks. Here's an email from back when, describing the unease some felt:

From - Sat Jun 17 06:06:47 2000
Message-ID:
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 01:54:14 -0600
From: Warren Young
Organization: -ENOENT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
Subject: Re: SCO Linux???
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 56k111-118.cyberport.com
Lines: 67
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.45.228.130
X-Trace: 17 Jun 2000 01:59:09 -0600, 199.45.228.130
Path: news.randori.com!news.voicenet.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!cpk-news-
hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-
feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!coop.net!news.coop.net!news.gj.net!56k111-118.cyberport.com
Xref: news.randori.com comp.unix.sco.misc:61905
X-Mozilla-Status: 8010
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000

fred smith wrote:

> > Robert Lipe wrote:
> : Warren Young writes:
>
> :>I guess it's a given that [SCO will] integrate the UDI patches that the
> :>core Linux kernel development team refuses to use.
>
> Pardon my ignorance, what is UDI, and what would its presence do for/to
> Linux?

It's a standardize device driver interface. The idea is for all Unixes to support it, allowing a device driver to be ported to new versions of Unix with just a recompile.

(See http://www.projectudi.org/ for more details.)

The current sentiment among the Linux kernel people is that they don't want UDI in the kernel. I've heard several reasons for this:

1. UDI -- being an extra layer of indirection -- slows the device driver down with respect to a "native" device driver.

2. The Linux kernel people would rather see native drivers than UDI drivers for particular hardware. If UDI remains an add-on that Linux distributors have to add themselves, there will be more pressure on hardware vendors to avoid UDI, at least for Linux.

3. Since UDI is a standardized interface, it should also be an ABI, at least for a particular platform. (UDI doesn't promise a cross-platform ABI.) An ABI means that a device driver could work with multiple versions of the Linux kernel without needing to be recompiled.

If Linux had a driver ABI, hardware vendors would start shipping binary-only drivers: there are few binary-only Linux drivers right now because of the threat of interface changes. Obviously, binary-only drivers go totally against the grain of Open Source.

4. There's concern that UDI would create a drag on kernel innovation: that UDI would either make some kernel changes impossible because of the way it thinks device drivers should work, or that the UDI component might not be able to benefit from improvements made to the native driver interface. The latter would make Linux look bad if UDI became the de facto Linux driver interface, because the improvements would not show up on systems using UDI drivers. The Linux kernel folk would then have to petition the UDI standards body to make a change: Open Source and bureaucracies do not mix.

5. Accepting UDI into the kernel would require the kernel folk to find someone to keep the Linux UDI component in synch with the rest of the kernel. Since UDI is already unpopular for the above reasons, there's skepticism as to whether someone can be found that's willing to synch UDI up every time the native driver interface changes.

6. ABIs are good in one sense, but they also stifle innovation. Just look at UnixWare: their DDI is at version 8 right now, implying that they've changed the interface 7 times since they created DDI. Linux changes its device interface as often as every point release. Is Linux out of control and chaotic, or is it continually being refined? It depends on your point of view, but the fact is, the Linux kernel folk refuse to give up this ability to change the device driver interface at will.

Warren -- See the *ix pages at http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/ix/

Of course, a lot of the links are dead now on UDI info, which is part of what is making me so interested. Anyway, thanks, SCO, for all your contributions to Linux, and especially to the Linux kernel. We're sure it's your modesty that has you list only part of your contributions.

P.S. Don't forget to let Congress know about your wonderful contributions to the kernel and the community back when you thought you could make money from GNU/Linux and were a Linux company and didn't have Microsoft whispering in your ear, so Congress can gauge your sincerity about claiming now that Linux is a "security threat."


  


Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due | 370 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
URLs and News Updates Here Please
Authored by: nealywilly on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:26 AM EST
Please post supporting (or refuting, I guess) URLs and News Updates here.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Mistakes and Typos Here please
Authored by: PJ on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:31 AM EST
Please record my mistakes for posterity here, please, so I can find them
quickly.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Which SCO
Authored by: wllacer on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:31 AM EST
PJ which SCO did which contribution ? If even we are getting confused ...
(I think RPM contri was Caldera's but UDI was Santa Cruz's (ju st looking at the
time frames, i haven't have the time to check it properly) ...
Ps. Do you ever sleep ?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Giving Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: RSC on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:34 AM EST
I have had my eyes open. I was unaware that SCO had contributed as much as that.
I am also very dissapointed that they have so thoroughly turn their back on the
community that has given them more than they have given in return.

If it was just MS fighting this battle, I would not have been so upset at the
fiaSCO, but it almost feels like SCO have turned traitor. That is what sticks in
my mind so strongly.

This sort of smiling while stabbing you in the back also makes me wonder just
how strong the IBM support really is, and just how fast they would turn on the
community if it suited them.


RSC.


---
----
An Australian who IS interested.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Marginal cost not always zero
Authored by: poncewattle on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:40 AM EST
Depending on who you buy your Linux from and the support contract terms, the marginal cost may not be zero. For example, if you buy RHEL you have to sign a contract saying that you'll buy one copy per machine and limit installs to that group, plus a worrisome "we can audit you" clause.

I expressed my concern about that to our Redhat rep and he said basically that you are buying support and that they had to change the terms because there were companies who were buying just one copy for support, throwing it on numerous machines, and anytime there was a support issue with any one of the machines, they'd be like "Oh yeah, that one machine is the one with the support contract."

Still a bit lame. I think there would be other ways to police that, especially through RHN, but there you have it.

One thing is clear though, if you don't like it, you can basically use the software without support. There's a new distro out, "White Box Linux" which takes all the source RPMS from RHEL and just compiles and packages them up, while stripping out the Redhat logo and trademark stuff. Nothing illegal about that.

Personally, since my employer only has a limited number of production machines, we got RHEL ES for all of them. If I had to grow to many more, I'd re-evaluate the entire issue.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:44 AM EST
PJ,

It's late, I'm quite tired, slightly buzzed, and off to bed after I post this.

If it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere, your razor-sharp, cutting irony is one of
the many joys of Groklaw. Thank you once again for so incisively bringing to
light the utter hypocrisy and complete moral bankruptcy of TSG. "Unclean
hands," indeed.

Goood night, PJ, and thank you.

--Guil R.

[ Reply to This | # ]

MYTH 5 - OPEN SOURCE ISN'T FOR MISSION-CRITICAL APPLICATIONS
Authored by: edal on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:00 AM EST
Hmmmm, let me see here. Three 'big iron' AIX machines, a sixty machine Linux
cluster and a second forty machine Linux cluster. Total unscheduled downtime
over the last year for the total installation is thirty eight seconds.

At this particular bank we are quite happy with Linux and Open Source and I
doubt that Microsoft could achieve this level of reliability. Rebooting after
installing a service pack is not an option.

Ed Almos
Budapest, Hungary

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:16 AM EST
Hi, PJ,

It's about time to hear something nice about SCO ;-)
Of course, this opens two questions:
- What took them so long to complain?
- Can it be that lots of the "intellectual Property" they claim to
have found in Linux has been contributed by no one else but themselves?

I think, Darl prefers attacks from the community...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:41 AM EST
Thanks for this one PJ. The article about open source myths is great. I haven't
seen that one before, but it looks a bunch of level-headed suits saying good
things about us. Nice, nice.

On the topic of "good SCO", it's hilarious. I just can't wait for the
time when they stand in front of the judge (and/or jury) and come up with
"big bad IBM", all the while they were putting stuff into Linux left,
right and centre. And all under the "unconstitutional GPL", of course.
Oh what fun will that be ;-)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Maybe a bit of bold is called for
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:48 AM EST

>"As business partners with Red Hat back then, we used their Linux system as the base for our SCO Network Desktop product."

I think you may have meant to say:

"As business partners with Red Hat back then, we used their Linux system as the base for our SCO Network Desktop product."

We may even have found an application for the <blink> tag.

Superb digging, by the way. I'm at a loss to understand why more journalists aren't shrieking this stuff from the rooftops. Perhaps it's because SCO continue to hide their blundering in plain sight? Maybe if it were a little harder to find (i.e. not sitting right there on their web site) it might gather more attention.

I'd love to hear SCO's arguments to have you gagged, should they decide to stop shooting themselves in the foot and go for one of those squiggly pumping organs higher up. "But, your honor, PJ keeps quoting us! How long will this scurrilous citation of the public record be allowed to continue?"

[ Reply to This | # ]

Still parsing patents, but that page is full...
Authored by: LionKuntz on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:49 AM EST



Here is what I did:

What I saw:

  • There is no similarity to the flowcharts or program codes in the '746 and '302 patents.

  • There is no similarity in the claims of the '746 patent to the '302 or '551 patents.

  • Inventors who did their own prior art searches almost never saw any similarity between the '746 and '551 patents. (only one patent cites both as prior art.

  • Inventors who did their own prior art searches almost never saw any similarity between the '302 and '551 patents. (only two patents cite both as prior art.)

  • 116 inventors who did their own prior art searches did not see similarity between the '302 and '746 patents. Out of 177 which cited '302 as prior art, only 61 also cited '746.

  • If the substance of '746 and '302 are so close as to be overlapping, than all 177 patents that cite '302 should also cite '746.

  • If the substance of '746 and '551 are so close as to be overlapping, than all 81 patents that cite '746 should also cite '551.

  • If the substance of '302 and '551 are so close as to be overlapping, than all 177 patents that cite '302 should also cite '551.



http://www.ecosyn.us /SCO_v_IBM_copyright_issues.html

SCO v IBM: SELECTED WEBPAGES CITATIONS OF COPYRIGHT LAW HISTORY RELEVENT TO UNIX SYSTEM V COPYRIGHT CLAIMS STATUS

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • And? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 06:05 AM EST
    • And Nothing? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 12:15 PM EST
Developer's impressions of UDI
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 04:51 AM EST
UDI was developed by the commercial Unix vendors on Intel. They did it without
any Linux input. The general feeling was that they were drooling over the
possibility of using Linux device drivers for their systems. Devices drivers
are a horrible maintenance burden
so what's better than pushing the work onto your open source competitors? And
the Linux community would not be able to use the commercial drivers as they
would be binary-only.

Needless to say it never went anywhere in Linux. Nor in the x86 Unix vendors'
systems... probably because it never took off in Linux.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Obscure loophole or kludge?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 05:11 AM EST
They can't create an 'unsafe' have for code raiders can they?

Through some obscure or idiotic loophole declare the GPL unenforceable in Utah
can they?

Not invalid, just uneforceable through some artifact of legal kludgery?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Thanks for the article
Authored by: inode_buddha on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 05:22 AM EST
IMHO it's the kind of thing we all need to see more often. Dang it, why didn't I think to send it in when I saw it a couple days ago? Duh!

More seriously, this is the sort of article that will make a difference where it counts - in corporate decisions.

---
"Truly, if Te is strong in one, all one needs to do is sit on one's ass, and the corpse of one's enemy shall be carried past shortly." (seen on USENET)

[ Reply to This | # ]

PJ
Authored by: maroberts on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 05:48 AM EST
Might be better to post seperate articles for different subjects, to make it
easier to find stuff, and also possibly to reduce number of comments per
pageview.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 06:08 AM EST
"Since Mr. McBride, in his interview with Dan Farber, complained that
Groklaw never says anything positive about SCO, I wish to turn over a new leaf.
Here is something I can honestly thank SCO for, all their contributions to the
Linux community"

Thank you Darl for making groklaw what it is. Thank you Darl for rallying the
entire Open Source community - albeit against you, the SCO Group and Canopy.
Thank you Darl for volunteering both the SCO Group and Canopy for utter
destruction at the hands of the Open Source community.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT Darl takes speech lessons from this guy
Authored by: Xaos on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 06:18 AM EST
http://brain-terminal.com/video/frank-chu/

Both Darl and this guy leave me in awe. Enjoy!

---
Can we outsource Darl to india? No wait humans live there. -Xaos-

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT - On the SCO Group's stock price: the milk turns sour.
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 06:37 AM EST
In retrospect, the SCO Group's ability to float its stock on nothing more than
hot air may lead to their accelerated demise: while the price of their stock was
high (to the bafflement of everyone), they attracted VC money with strings
attached including stock floor price triggers. Now, the SCO Group is going to
have to make good on those triggers.

The Autozone and the Daimler/Chrysler suits don't seem to have the shock and awe
effects on corporate end users that the SCO Group was counting on: in fact, they
have as much impact on corporate end users as being struck with limp noddles.
The SCO Group was aiming for lethality and got hilarity.

The SCO Group's choo-choo train launched itself across the abyss when the SCO
Group deliberately alienated the Open Source community and sued IBM. Given that
the SCO Group's licensing plan is being seriously derailed, the chances that the
SCO Group's choo-choo train will achieve its goals and get to the other side of
the abyss are getting more remote both by the course of every ordinary day and
with each pleading. That cho-choo train's flight into the abyss will be
spectacular entertainment.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Totosplatz on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 06:42 AM EST

GROKLAW the Un-trackable presence.

I am three hours late just noticing this, never mind actually thinking about it. Bah!

---
All the best to one and all.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Not ready for the desktop?
Authored by: David Gerard on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 06:49 AM EST
Linux is as "ready for the desktop" as Windows - probably more. (It's
now easier to install, for example.) The problem is that Windows isn't ready for
the desktop, hence the frustrated users and the extensive support infrastructure
required in a corporate setting.

What I want to see is Unix desktops chasing the usability of the Macintosh, not
the clunky inconsistent hodge-podge we know as Windows.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 06:53 AM EST
It is the job of the CIOs to see through the myths, and do what's best for their
businesses. I don't expect any CIO five years from now to say something like:
"I dug in my heels for five years, forbidding any experimentation with Open
Source including Linux and BSD, and thereby allowed my employer's competitors to
enjoy the benefits of a five-year head start in a mission-critical technology
and denied my employer five years worth of economic savings" This is the
kind of vision that should rightfully cost its owner his job. My attitude is
"no hand holding", and "no saving people from themselves".

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT. CIO site "groklawed"
Authored by: wllacer on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 07:04 AM EST
At 13:00 CET the magazine site has been "groklawed" ... (that ougth to
be 7:00 AM EST) The international Groklaw readership seems to be huge (me
included)
It looks a very interesting web site (the small time i was able to read) , who
knows in detail who is running it, which intended audience and agenda has?

[ Reply to This | # ]

So what happens after SCO implodes???
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 07:27 AM EST
will all their cases get tossed out? Or will some opportunist chancer buy up the remains to keep the cases alive? After all, that's how Caldera made a big chunk of money out of Microsoft when they bought up DRDOS .

In fact one wonders exactly what was in the documents from that case that were destroyed recently when you get statements like this about the case:

The company claims that Stefanie Reichel, an account manager for Microsoft Germany, testified during her deposition that evidence of wrongdoing had been destroyed during the earlier DOJ investigation.

Bryan Sparks was quoted in the September 1998 Sm@rt Reseller as saying:

" Reichel's deposition alleges some pretty serious things. Our lawyers said in court yesterday that, in her deposition, Stefanie acknowledges the destruction of evidence that could have been used in the original [US Department of Justice] v. Microsoft case. They also said she didn't produce all the documents requested. She alluded to documents we've never even seen."

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: kberrien on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 08:34 AM EST
>It's a standardize device driver interface. The idea is for all Unixes to support it, allowing a device driver to be ported to new versions of Unix with just a recompile.

Nice of SCO to help make Linux like "all Unixes". What was it again that Darl said in yesterdays transcript?

McBride: We haven't any claims on Samba or some of these other projects. We are very specific about Linux. Linux replicates UNIX. We own the UNIX operating system. Linux is replicating it. When you go to Barnes & Noble and buy a book on how to program in Linux it says, 'How to program in UNIX/Linux'. When you read the book, it's not two different sections. It's the same book.

emphasis mine:

SCO's arguments always seem to fall short when one considers past intent & actions. Its the kind of thing that juries will see very clearly

[ Reply to This | # ]

Is it Time for an Open Letter to Hardware Vendors?
Authored by: MajorDisaster on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 08:44 AM EST
Or did I miss one? ;-) I was up late last night loading Mandrake 10 Community on
my desktop at the house. Perfecto! I want to load Linux on my laptop but I am
not ready to dump XP which gives me all the bells and whistles on my HP zd7020.
I am a telecom consultant and my laptop is my lifeline to my paycheck. Very
important.
When are these guys (HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, etc... )going to wake up and
supply Linux drivers for their hardware?
If there was a vendor with that supplied Linux drivers, by what percentage would
their sales increase?

Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says; "I am coming." -
Virgil

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: greybeard on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 08:58 AM EST
RE: CIO piece.

How odd. I would have sworn that the offical channeler of the CIOs of the
planet, Rob E. told us that all those CIOs out in the ether were scared to death
of FOSS. 'Spose CIO mag could arrange an introduction? "Rob, Real World.
Real World, Rob"...

Nice, and timely, article.

---
-greybeard-

[ Reply to This | # ]

Thanks SCO Group!
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 09:03 AM EST
Should we be thanking SCO Group, in part, for the creation of Groklaw? Without
their mis-informed accusations Groklaw might not exist.
I find it a full and knowledgable source on open source and free software. I
hope Groklaw continues well after SCOG failure.

Thanks PJ.

[ Reply to This | # ]

MYTH 4 - IT'S A LEGAL MINEFIELD (If you're worried, third-party indemnification is an option.)
Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 09:06 AM EST
PJ,

In the interest of full disclosure, aren't you involved in a 3rd part
indemnification effort, or something related?

IN any event keep up the good work. This is a great sorce of real information on
the whol SCO thing.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 09:35 AM EST
I once bought a copy of Caldera Open Linux 1.4 which was one the better business
orientated distro's at the time. It also made a pretty good desktop os (with a
bit of tweeking).
Why any company would want to alienate itself from the community that helped
shape shch a good product in favour of a *potential* one-off payment is
astonishing.
If I made decisions this badly, my senior executives would be makeing threats
against my safety.
Maybe Darl is confused, the threats he has been receiving are from SCO stock
holders!

[ Reply to This | # ]

ROFL
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 10:31 AM EST
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/36287.html

[ Reply to This | # ]

Berlind's new theory: SUN's role may be critical
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 10:47 AM EST
Berlind came up with a new new theory regarding what happened with Unix before 1994, and concludes SUN could hold the trump card to counter SCO IP-related claims. Certainly a well researched article with a lot of info in it - how much of it is true or important, I have no clue, but I expect other GrokLawyers will tell us.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 10:48 AM EST
Seeing the list of names that contributed to the kernal makes me wonder how many
of these individuals are still at SCO, and how they feel about SCO bastardizing
their hard work.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: latest PR, and let's SCO shopping!
Authored by: belzecue on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 11:01 AM EST
Latest PR gloats about VARBusiness giving them 5-Star Vendor status in its 10th annual Partner Programs Guide.

Not too many months ago, VARBusiness h ad this to say about SCO:

Editor’s Letter: Get Set For The 2003 ARC Hall Of Shame

According to their channel partners, seven vendors have many issues to address

By Robert C. DeMarzo, VARBusiness

Wed., Oct. 08, 2003

"... SCO should apply some of the money it's shelling out in legal fees in its suit against IBM and Linux users to its channel efforts. The company's ARC scores were a train wreck in the enterprise operating systems category. Who cares what line of code is buried inside some obscure Linux program that can trace its roots to IBM's Unix license dating back to the Partridge Family? SCO partners clearly don't appreciate the company's products..."

But if you're thinking that things are looking up for SCO's future, why not put a smile on Darl's dial and go spend some of your hard-earned I.T. dollars on your favourite SCO product.

[ Reply to This | # ]

It's the performance stupid!
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 11:08 AM EST

MYTH 1 - THE ATTRACTION IS THE PRICE TAG ( It's performance improvement.)

I recently had the performance improvement aspect hit me in the face. I had Windows XP on a Pentium III - 400Mhz machine and realized I couldn't watch DVDs. They would play jerky and sometimes freeze under PowerDVD. The same machine running Libranet (not exactly a lean distribution) plays DVDs, VCDs, and SVCDs all perfectly under Xine. I'm thinking about making it into my home multimedia machine with Movix.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Peter H. Salus on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 11:09 AM EST

I'd like some information, please.

A company called "PriceTarget Research, Inc."
has given "SCO Group" an "A" rating. What is
this company? Who owns it? Does this mean
anything to the investment community?

Peter

---
Peter H. Salus

[ Reply to This | # ]

UDI & Linux
Authored by: n0ano on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 11:21 AM EST
Disclaimer - I worked on UDI and, in fact, I did the first port of a UDI driver
to Linux. (Although I'm not sure what I'm disclaiming, truth be known I never
liked UDI that much in the first place.)

The point of UDI was to create a API that was both complete and generic so that
the same driver source file could be used, unmodified, on different OS's. If
you've every bought a video card and cursed because the manufacturer refused to
release a driver for Linux because the market was too small to warrant the
development cost you'll see the advantage of UDI. Write a driver once and there
is no development cost to use the same driver on different UDI systems. Great
idea, it only suffered from 2 major defects in my opinion:

1) Microsoft. For obvious reasons Microsoft was not interested so that means
90% of the market is not going to support UDI and, therefore, manufacturers are
forced to write multiple drivers.

2) Linux already `had` that API. I always felt that Linux provided the perfect
source API in the first place. Write your drivers to work on Linux and then use
the Linux API as UDI. (Nobody listened to me on that one :-)

As far as Original SCO inadvertently releasing their vaunted IP into UDI - I
don't think so. The UDI source tree was divided into a machine independent base
and then there were different machine dependent trees. The machine independent
base was all new code that was not copied from anywhere. The UnixWare machine
dependent branch most likely did contain UnixWare copyrighted code but that
branch was only used for UnixWare and was copyrighted so I think Original SCO
protected themselves appropriately.

---
"Censeo Toto nos in Kansa esse decisse." - D. Gale

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Peter H. Salus on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 12:23 PM EST
I just had an opportunity to look at this analytically.

In 1995, Richard Stallman approached me about organizing
a "First Conference on Freely Redistributable Software."
That Conference was held at the Cambridge (MA) Marriott
in 3-5 February 1996. Linus was the keynote and rms was
the "final" speaker.

One of the papers was "The RPM Packaging System" by Marc Ewing and
Erik Troan. In addition to "Linux on multiple platforms," they
mention using "this version of RPM [2.0]"
under "Irix, AIX, and Digital UNIX."

Marc and Erik end up noting "RPM is Copyright (c) 1996 by
Red Hat Software" and "RPM and Red Hat are trademarks of
Red Hat Software, Inc."

There is no mention of SCO anywhere. In fact, I do not
recall any SCO presence at the Conference.

Peter


---
Peter H. Salus

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT - What's this?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 12:52 PM EST
"Already, OSRM has support from top open source leaders, including Eric Raymond, Bruce Perens and Richard Stallman, as well as Groklaw creator Pamela Jones, who has signed on as a director of research. While St. Clair said the client list remains confidential, the firm has approached Fortune 500 companies like Charles Schwab."

http://www.inter netnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3326331

[ Reply to This | # ]

pamela Jones FORMER editor of Groklaw???
Authored by: BigTex on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 01:08 PM EST
Is this true?

I read with uch excitement about your new company affiliation then read with
horrow that they called you the "Former Editor of Groklaw" Say it
isn't so!

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/03/16/HNopeninsurance_1.html

BigTex

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 02:21 PM EST
MYTH 6 - OPEN SOURCE ISN'T READY FOR THE DESKTOP ("Siemens, for example, says it has performed extensive testing with 'real-world, nontechnical workers,' finally declaring that Linux has now matured as a desktop system. The tests confounded the company's expectations.")
As an open source advocate and someone who has deployed Open Office, and LTSP Thin Clients running X applications on over a hundred desktops at multiple facilities I am sorry to report that the corporate push is toward MS Office where I work. Open Office is good, but it is different than what people run at home; so when they come to work they are confused, upset, and complain to their boss (who sits at a Windows PC). Now the Windows PC becomes a "status symbol." The boss--who owns the budget--says, "Give my people PCs" as a way of improving their status, and, frankly, making it easier for them to share files with the rest of the world.

[ Reply to This | # ]

eWeek: Microsoft and SCO: FUD Brothers
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 02:42 PM EST
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1548132,00.asp?kc=EWNWS031604DTX1K0000599

[ Reply to This | # ]

PJ don't go!!!
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:05 PM EST
From slashdot:
Open Source Risk Management LLC (OSRM), a startup company that last month hired
Pamela Jones, former editor of the popular Groklaw.net Web site, as director of
litigation risk research

FORMER...FORMER;-)

Thought you might get a kick out of that!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: zjimward on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:39 PM EST

Yes, but we all know that Mr. McBride claims that Linux is full of stolen code.
Does this mean, some thing which I have thought and probably others as well,
that the code which SCO is complaining about was contributed by them first? Now
they are trying to refute that the GPL is valid and that it wasn't them
contributing it, but others.

Also on the positive side, SCO has done a lot to make the public more aware of
Linux. Before all of this Linux was not in the news with two sides debating it
with the same strength a year ago.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and OSRM wants your money
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:53 PM EST
for 'Linux Insurance' - I kid you not. Now there's two brands available - SCO or OSRM. Both camps are now spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt to get you to fan out that cash!. Indemnification, previously considered a FUD tactic, is now a marketing buzzword. And, OSRM will tell you that none of the existing indemnification funds or legal defense funds will protect you (as well as they will, for a price - sound familiar?)
From Here:

'There is no $1.5 million fund like the one being offered by Novell that can fully cover a serious lawsuit' - That's John St. Clair, OSRM guy talking. According to the article, the 'firm has approached Fortune 500 companies' to sell them Linux Insurance - I'll bet they got a sense of deja vu all over again when that happened.
More FUD from the article:

'Beyond basic copyright litigation, OSRM says there are also the legal land mines of patent claims, as well as claims of unfair competition and collusion on trade secrets'
"That is where Open Source is headed, if not there already"'
- St Clair again.
Had enough? There's more. From an 'article' called 'Why the Linux Community Needs Open Source Insurance', written by another OSRM guy:

'But the terrible vulnerability of this amorphous shared licensor/copyright holder structure is that the open source code base has no single unified owner who will assume liability, and coordinate a collective defense for the open source community, when users get sued' This is almost directly the same line Mike Anderer used a few days ago. Could someone please explain to me why I shouldn't feel betrayed here? When this thing was first touted, it was 'vendor neutral indemnification'. Now its a VC funded 'insurance' company planting articles online telling people to be scared and cough up. I will not pay OSRM, nor Darl or any one of them. PLEASE set me straight, cuz I must be simply missing something here, right? Tell me I'm wrong, explain why, kill the pain in my stomach, please.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 16 2004 @ 03:58 PM EST
Talking about business (URL slightly out of topic)

We should be aware by now that Microsoft can no longer be considered a corporation; it has successfully passed the ideological threshold. It can now, safely, be equated as a political entity for all practical perpuses.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 17 2004 @ 06:39 AM EST
Gretings all!

Obviously Ms. Amy Roberts, Manager, Partner Programs for VARBusiness Magazine [funded some 30% by Microsoft Corp. via MSNBC] feels SCOG/SCOX deserves "credit" where due. She has not only given them a "5 Star " rating, but the online figures don't seem to quite "jive" with what's gone down, or is that "going down" with the SCOG. Hmmm.

SCO Updates TeamSCO Partner Program to Promote UnixWare

"...the most important elements many solution providers look for from vendor programs were ease of doing business, post-sales support, communications, technical training and advice, and market support." [Wonder if EV1 & AutoZone were part of the "5 Star" Poll?]

The S CO Group   
Sales By Customer Type:
  B2B: 50%
  Gov't: 30%
  Education: 10%
  Consumer: 10%
Gross Sales Range 2003: $50mil-$100mil

~waynesworld~ Penguins @ the Beach

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 17 2004 @ 10:55 AM EST
OSRM = Bad Idea.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Business is Business and Credit Where Credit is Due
Authored by: Avenger on Wednesday, March 17 2004 @ 04:44 PM EST
Ok, there is business in Open Source.
But what M$ does there?

http://www.osbc2004.com/

[ Reply to This | # ]

Groklaw © Copyright 2003-2013 Pamela Jones.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners.
Comments are owned by the individual posters.

PJ's articles are licensed under a Creative Commons License. ( Details )