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| Authored by: jbb on Sunday, May 12 2013 @ 08:10 PM EDT |
User jbb even quoted an article from Wikipedia,
that
unimpeachable font of knowledge, to prove that this phrase has a
definite meaning, that any usage of the phrase which differs is by definition
linguistically incorrect and therefore confusing. The phrase ought not to
be
used to mean anything else, so his argument goes, and anyone who does so is
hijacking the language.
So your best argument is to disparage the
Wikipedia in order to discredit an author who links to it? How quaint. Even
though I did not use the Wikipedia as the definitive end-all be-all answer (as
you imply) and merely used it as a clue for the clueless, it does not deserve
you disparagement.
Do you value what is reported in the magazine
Nature? As
CNET
reported in 2005:
Wikipedia is about as good a source of
accurate information as Britannica, the venerable standard-bearer of facts about
the world around us, according to a study published this week in the journal
Nature.
In the early results from a follow-up study in 2012 by
the
University of Oxford:
Results across languages showed that
Wikipedia fared well in this sample against Encyclopaedia Britannica in terms of
accuracy, references and overall judgement, but no
better on style and overall
quality score.
My point is not that the Wikipedia is the end-all
be-all answer to every question. My point is that your argument via an attack
on Wikipedia is specious. I included the original link because I thought you
might not be aware of the standard meaning of the American Dream. That
link was meant to start your research on the subject (if needed), not stop
it.
Words and phrases have mutually agreed upon meanings. It is only by
using those meanings that we are able to communicate with each other using
words. This is not much different from the convention that we stop at red
lights and go on green lights. When you choose to break that convention,
accidents happen.
Likewise, when you break linguistic conventions by pulling
new and contradictory meanings for well known phrases out of your hat without
warning then confusion is bound to result. The only question is whether that
confusion was intentional or inadvertent.
If you have evidence that the
meaning of the American Dream has changed (even if it is from a source
that is not as reliable as the Wikipedia) then
you should have posted it here
for discussion.
Groklaw is sometimes flooded with anonymous posts that are
solely meant to disrupt or discredit the discussions here. I really don't know
if such disruption was your intent or not but whatever your purpose was, when
you insist on using words and phrases to mean the opposite of what they commonly
mean without giving any reason or explanation then disruption will almost
certainly be the result.
In addition to misusing the notion of the American
Dream, the post I originally responded to also made several other backhanded
attacks. The one I particular take exception to is the implicit assumption that
the draconian patent and copyright laws in the US fuel innovation.
When
someone posts such a flurry of misunderstandings on the main page under a
Groklaw article, if the post is neither deleted nor refuted then it can be used
to disparage Groklaw as a haven of muddy thinking. This tactic has been used
frequently. If we have the time and energy then the best thing to do is to
refute every single fallacy in the original post but I am now getting tired of
your flood of fallacious arguments. As a great American once
said:
Judge me by the enemies I have
made.
---
Our job is to remind ourselves that there
are more contexts
than the one we’re in now — the one that we think is reality.
-- Alan Kay [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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| Authored by: PJ on Sunday, May 12 2013 @ 08:18 PM EDT |
What spinach. Phrases have meanings, and
you say, who knows what it means? It could
have more than one meaning. Outsiders might
see it differently. Etc.
Give it a rest, dude. The phrase has a
meaning, and you don't get to redefine it,
and outsiders certainly don't get to
decide what Americans mean when they use
an American phrase.
Stop posting this nonsense. This is Groklaw.
Nobody is stupid here, including me, and
you are polluting the conversation with
this absolute silly stuff. Cut it out.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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- OK - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 12 2013 @ 11:35 PM EDT
- OK - Authored by: PJ on Monday, May 13 2013 @ 01:01 AM EDT
- OK - Authored by: kuroshima on Monday, May 13 2013 @ 04:37 AM EDT
- OK - Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 13 2013 @ 07:01 AM EDT
- nonverbal cues - Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 13 2013 @ 07:19 AM EDT
- nonverbal cues - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 14 2013 @ 05:15 AM EDT
- OK - Authored by: Wol on Monday, May 13 2013 @ 10:51 AM EDT
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