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The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

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Off topic discussions | 280 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections here please
Authored by: jesse on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 07:08 AM EST
Thank you.

[ Reply to This | # ]

News Pick discussions
Authored by: jesse on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 07:09 AM EST
Thank you.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Off topic discussions
Authored by: jesse on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 07:10 AM EST
Thank you.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Same old, same old.
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 07:10 AM EST
It was ever thus.

[ Reply to This | # ]

COMES document thread
Authored by: jesse on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 07:12 AM EST
Thank you

[ Reply to This | # ]

Scott McNealy amicus brief
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 08:06 AM EST
It wouldn't be too surprising if McNealy was under contract
to do whatever Oracle requires in order to protect Oracle's
purchase. He probably wouldn't be allowed to disclose the
existence of a contract, so there's no way to know whether
this brief is a result of something like that or not. I have
no knowledge of such a contract, this speculation is just
based on my experience.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 08:07 AM EST
Wow look like the only one missing is our Foss - patent
champion..

[ Reply to This | # ]

They were all heartbroken
Authored by: BJ on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 08:15 AM EST
They were all heartbroken.
Over Oracle disingenious lying-through-their-teeth
sob story.

bjd


[ Reply to This | # ]

Lee A. Hollaar
Authored by: BJ on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 08:21 AM EST
Is from Salt Lake City Utah, which seems to be a hub of activity.

Is some kind of word juggler. Has a lot of amici apparently...

bjd

[ Reply to This | # ]

BSA? Really?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 08:24 AM EST
Well, I guess this just goes to show that the BSA cares about software
developers about as much as recording publishers and labels care about
musicians.

Taking a position that API's should be copyrightable is the surest way to gut
the private software publishing industry.

bkd

[ Reply to This | # ]

HELLO Department Of Justice. Look at Gates and Microsoft . Back toghether again.
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 08:47 AM EST
The emergence of so much Gates , on Reddit, the Charlie Rose show, and other
interviews is just the start of the FUD fest coming. The king of FUD .Gates is
now effectively back in charge of Microsoft .

HELLO Department Of Justice. Look at Gates and Microsoft



Microsoft is frantic to stop Google , This smells of Gates who has been stinking
up the web lately.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Is Judge Alsup heard in this case?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 08:47 AM EST
Does Judge Alsup get to stand up and defend his ruling in
this case? I don't know how appeals courts work so please
excuse my silly question.

I think Judge Alsup is probably the one who best understands
all the ins and outs of this case and I am sure he could
argue and defend his ruling in a very authoritive and
eloquent way.

If the law is abundantly clear (which it is) then what
possible influence can politcally biased amicus briefs have?

[ Reply to This | # ]

What a gallery of grotesques
Authored by: scav on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 09:05 AM EST
Very much the usual suspects and a few pantomime villains of the software
community.

Question:
is it likely that all the anti-Google amici jumping in before Google's
response brief actually gives Google the tactical advantage of being able to
polish their response to deflect or rebut the arguments made?

Or do they not have to worry? I'm guessing the amici curiae are only a
secondary influence, and get mostly ignored unless the proper by-the-book
course of action is otherwise unclear. Am I guessing right?


---
The emperor, undaunted by overwhelming evidence that he had no clothes,
redoubled his siege of Antarctica to extort tribute from the penguins.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 09:17 AM EST
The enemy of my enemy is my friend....
Seems very applicable here.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 09:18 AM EST
I'm obviously missing something here - because if an appeal can only be based on
'points of law' then who cares what the likes of Microsoft and their pals
think?

Bob

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 09:24 AM EST

If the court goes with Oracle's interpretation, then Microsoft gets rid of a couple of competitors. Notably, LibreOffice, Wine, and ReactOS would be in serious trouble. It might also impact Mozilla FireFox and Google Chrome.

It would not be a good day for any open source product that implements the same API as a proprietary product for compatibility reasons.

[ Reply to This | # ]

bad guys jumping, we must be on the right track
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 09:27 AM EST
I think it is a pretty good rule of thumb that whatever position micro$oft
defends, the contrary is the right one.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Copyright Maximalists
Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 09:37 AM EST
This seem a pretty complete list of Copyright Maximalists.

I imagine the usual Suspects will be lining up on the other side.

One obvious reason to use the literary analogies, however misguided, is to
enlist the support of these groups.

---
Rsteinmetz - IANAL therefore my opinions are illegal.

"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."
Randy Newman - The Title Theme from Monk

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj
Authored by: sqlcompiler on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 09:47 AM EST
" Who would ever have predicted an Oracle-Microsoft buddy system?" I was going to say it was easy for both just by looking at share price, but it looks like that theory only applies to MSFT. google stock comparison

[ Reply to This | # ]

Don't be evil - patent deletion of temporary files
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 10:32 AM EST
Automatic deletion of temporary files

The USPTO doesn't need to be reformed, it needs to be abolished.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 10:41 AM EST
I hope the open source big guns file briefs in favour of
Google and free api rights. This is a bit of an ambush. I
think Samsung and HTC and Sony should be in this too.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj
Authored by: kuroshima on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 12:15 PM EST
"Judge me by the enemies I have made."
Theodore Roosevelt

Not an American but this quote seemed particularly
appropriate.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Collusion?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 01:24 PM EST
At what point does it become illegal for corporations
to collude in an attempt destroy another corporation?

It seems old enemies keep getting with each other in
an attempt to hurt Google.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Rent seeking
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 01:51 PM EST
For years we have programmed society to accept the absurd proposition that
corporations have the right to make huge profits reselling goods that can be
manufactured cheaply, for which the fair market value is very low, and for which
the prices are propped up against market forces by government regulation.
Shakespeare never had a copyright, yet we automatically accept the argument that
artistic works are impossible without government protected monopolies. The
leeches that benefit from these systems will fight light mad dogs to keep their
monopolies, and society has been programmed to blindly accept their absurd
arguments.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Eugene H. Spafford
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 03:01 PM EST
> Eugene H. Spafford, Ph.D., Zhi Ding, Ph.D.,

Please enlighten this ignorant foreigner, Zhi Ding = ?

I know in Chinese 指定 can mean appointed or deputised;
and 纸锭 is the paper money burned in offering to the
dead....

[ Reply to This | # ]

NetApp and EMC
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 03:24 PM EST
It seems as if these two are going into the bin along side Oracle as companies
products I will no longer recommend to customers. It was good while it lasted
fellas but we will no longer continue to purchase or recommend you products to
anyone.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Don't Be Evil
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 04:08 PM EST
To paraphrase Eric Schmidt, those are just words, and Google hasn't lived by
them in a long time. Google is clearly the party in the right here, but let's
not get carried away with ourselves. Google is evil, just much less so than
Oracle, which is a very low bar to cross.

[ Reply to This | # ]

McNealy and Perjury
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 04:09 PM EST
I wish he could be charged with perjury for his "it's a personal blog"
testimony. It seems impossible to me that he could truly believe that.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Appellant or Appellee?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 04:15 PM EST
Wait a minute -isn't that last brief in favor of the appellee, i.e., Google?

I would be blown away if Spaf was not on the side of FOSS!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj Updated
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 20 2013 @ 11:57 PM EST
I worked at Sun during the Schwartz days, and he explicitly said in his blog
that his blog was am appropriate vehicle for dissemination of company financials
as it ensured all consumers would have access to the data at the same time.

I certainly understood that to mean it was a corporate media outlet.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Scott McNealy has lost all credibility
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 21 2013 @ 02:06 AM EST
Anybody remember when Scott McNealy called Ellison the
"national economic hero"? The Jury in Oracle vs Google
pretty much rolled over when they heard that one, because
everybody knows that Oracle tried to defraud the U.S.
Government's General Services Administration in a 1 Billion
Dollar Services Contract, there was plenty of press coverage
on that story.

Scott McNealy has Zero credibility left, I sincerely hope
the court is aware of his unsound disposition as per his
unsound statements that he has publically made, when they
read any of his briefs.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft, BSA, Scott McNealy, others file amicus briefs in support of Oracle's appeal against Google ~pj Updated
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 21 2013 @ 03:31 AM EST
If Oracle were successful on appeal, would IBM have a strong
position when licensing SQL C API to Oracle?

This could end-up being a huge win for IBM, as a lot of API
sequence and naming conventions came from their tool sets,
again, supplied with the IBM O/S development tools.

[ Reply to This | # ]

First they ignore you, then they fight you, then you win
Authored by: TiddlyPom on Thursday, February 21 2013 @ 05:16 AM EST
I view this as a positive sign. The proprietary software vendors (aka Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, SAP and in terms of gaming Sony) are terrified of open source. Android (which is after all a Linux distribution) is a run-away success and many new projects such as the Ouya and Steam Shield are built on open source technologies.

Unless the proprietary companies can find a way of stopping open source based companies competing with them on a level playing field then they WILL lose market share. Android is an obvious target to attack.

<opinion>To Microsoft and Apple in particular this is unthinkable as it might reduce the effects of their brainwashing</opinion>

I just hope that we can show how important software APIs are to reuse and interoperability and how (up to know) they have NOT been copyrightable. After that point we keep slugging it out but ultimately we win!

---
Support Software Freedom - use GPL licenced software like Linux and LibreOffice instead of proprietary software like Microsoft Windows/Office or Apple OS/X

[ Reply to This | # ]

they said something meaningful and important.
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 21 2013 @ 07:35 AM EST
Yeah, I notice you're not foolish enough to say that Google don't do evil, just
that the words "don't do evil" are meaningful and important. Weasel
words.

[ Reply to This | # ]

News Picks
Authored by: webster on Thursday, February 21 2013 @ 02:05 PM EST
.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Links to the missing annual report
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 21 2013 @ 05:25 PM EST

The SEC has the filings that Oracle has "accidentally" (sarcasm) removed from their site.

10K form in html format

all documents relating to the filing

And in case you want to upload it as an article, It's already done up for your as a text file (complete with html formatting codes)

here

Have a great day:)

Patrick.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Does this mean the ISO standards group can sue Microsoft?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 21 2013 @ 09:13 PM EST
If language APIs are declared copyright, they should be sued for illegally
creating a C library for Windows since AT&T/Berkeley owns the copyright to
original libc APIs effectively speaking

If we're all going to go down, they will have to also!

[ Reply to This | # ]

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