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The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

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to prohibit, forbit and aggressively control | 398 comments | Create New Account
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A cure for gun violence?
Authored by: myNym on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 03:40 AM EST
I've never met a violent gun.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

to prohibit, forbit and aggressively control
Authored by: YurtGuppy on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 07:53 AM EST


To "forbid", "prohibit" and "aggressively
control"...
all of which are projections of power from the state over the individual.

No violence here, nothing to see, please move along.

It all just depends on whose ox is being gored doesn't it.





---
a small fish in an even smaller pond

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

192 million firearms owned by Americans - Wrong, over 300 million.
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 08:12 AM EST
and 10's of millions of just AR-15s.

I have been told that - In the south, mid-west, everywhere,
there are those that WILL NOT give them up, due to a fear of
government..., and an understanding that the police, will
not be there to protect you... they only show up to
investigate the crime that you, if not able to defend
yourself, are victim of (could be deceased)... Which
is why the 2nd amendment is 2nd, and really in the minds of
some, the 2nd, could be considered part of the 1st.

The above was told to me by a prolific gun owner, and the
tone of voice was pure belief that those in power, could
someday go off the "cliff" and try to impose a way of life
over this individual that the individual would never
subscribe to. The number who believe this, is most likely
in the 10s of millions. Fact, to get this number of gun
owners in perspective, there are more hunting licenses sold
in just the state of Pennsylvania in one year, than the
total number of those serving in the US military.

So, the issue. Not a mystery at all. The question is why
are there these high profile events of the day, where the
gun(man) ends up killing themselves. Really, it is just a
loud, very loud, suicide of the person. What is going on in
their minds (and do any drugs have any effect on their frame
of mind to contribute to the instability or insanity)?

Google - Dopamine, Serotonin, Aggression, SSRI stories,
etc and study those words, and what they mean to each human
on earth.

US sells more anti-depressants than any other country in the
world. MORE pills, and more violence, is anyone doing that
math to look for the lowest common denominator?

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

A cure for fear?
Authored by: davecb on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 09:16 AM EST
When I was a kid, the United States was "the land of the brave". In
the second world war, they helped defeat the worst dictator the modern world has
seen.

Now they're terrified of Canadian birdwatchers looking at gulls in the Niagara
River.

Everyone has a gun, and they want to take them to the mall, in case someone
starts killing their kids.

I know they've been afraid of their own government since the days of George III,
but now they seem to be afraid of everyone, and constantly lashing out.

What happened to the Americans of my father's generation?

--dave



---
davecb@spamcop.net

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

He suggests treating symptoms
Authored by: artp on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 01:21 PM EST
Symptoms don't cure the disease.

America is a violent country. I know that well and
personally. Laws can only change things with the consent of
the governed. Laws do not change behavior, they only change
how the behavior is performed.

There are deeper issues that need to be addressed before his
suggestions would be effective. I would start with social
justice. If economic inequality exists, if there is no path
to improve people's lives, if justice depends on wealth,
then don't expect to fix violence with laws. Society doesn't
need to be flat - that is impossible - but there needs to be
mobility between the levels. An article in the last week
claims that it is getting harder for education to change
economic status for poor people. The deck is stacked against
them.

Simple mechanics tells us that if you bottle up energy, it
will find a way out, either constructively or destructively.
Our choice.

---
Userfriendly on WGA server outage:
When you're chained to an oar you don't think you should go down when the galley
sinks ?

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    Here's another one
    Authored by: JamesK on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 02:12 PM EST
    This is just the latest of shootings since Newtown.

    Firefighters shot while responding to Rochester, N.Y. blaze

    What's so wrong with American culture that even firemen can't do their job without risking getting shot? Is it the paranoia generated by the gun lovers? The prevalence of guns? What?

    ---
    The following program contains immature subject matter.
    Viewer discretion is advised.

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    A medium term cure...NRA leads the culture...
    Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 02:24 PM EST
    This is purely my personal opinion...and I have my fireproof suit on, so
    attack with facts only.

    It is far too easy to steal a weapon. NRA, please make everyone have a
    place to store their guns where my teenager wont have the necessary
    resources (blowtorch and lots of patience) to steal their guns.

    It is far to easy to walk into my local walmart, speak to noone, and buy both
    my weapon and some ammunition without speaking a word to anyone.
    Please, make that work differently, so my nutty nephew has to talk to the
    clerk before he purchases anything. And give that clerk the power to say
    no, my nephew is a nut and not do the sale, or make it on layaway only.

    While I am at it, let gun control mean that every owner has had some
    recent training on his weapons....in person, just like the marine I was
    talking to last night who has to requalify on his weapon every year.

    His neighbor's request was also interesting...he asked to have his wife's
    hands untied. She is a school shrink.

    The guys going nuts on us are loners...get them connected face to face,
    get them help, we will have fewer of these shootings.

    By the way, I am 4 times more likely to die in my car than by a
    bullet...where is the outrage about all the car killings???? My seatbelt is
    more likely to save my life than any weapon with a bullet!

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    Advertise NRA membership
    Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 10:00 PM EST

    NRA came out after Connecticut saying that there should be one or more armed guards at all schools. This morning, two volunteer firefighters lost their lives and 2 others were injured, because some person wanted to kill firefighters.

    Hey, if the NRA is willing to provide the people (background checked) free of charge to society, maybe you (the USA) should take them up on it. And now with firefighters being shot, the NRA may suggest people with guns on all emergency response vehicles. If they offer to train and pay for this, take them up on it.

    There could easily be other situations, the only one which comes to mind is going postal. Again, if the NRA advocates having people with guns there to protect the innocent postal workers from the deranged postal workers, take them up on their offer to pay ALL costs to do so. Training, salary, education and whatever else.

    Paying billions of dollars in lobbying politicians at all levels, and now paying for the background checks, training, and salary of all these good old boys is going to quickly bankrupt the NRA.

    But really, what the media need to start doing, is when any kind of shooting happens, is to find out if the shooter is a NRA member. I think that will quickly put to rest the idea of a good old boy being able to protect others. There are no good old boys, there are just a whole lot of people with guns.

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    How an Assistant Principal With a Gun Stopped a School Shooter
    Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, December 24 2012 @ 10:56 PM EST
    Link

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    A cure for gun violence?
    Authored by: albert on Tuesday, December 25 2012 @ 12:13 PM EST
    It's my opinion that the 2nd Amendment is a protection against the Federal Gov't
    disarming the citizenry, by insuring the States the right to keep "well
    regulated militia[s]". In those days, agriculture was predominant, and
    most everyone owned guns. They were used for hunting, protecting livestock from
    predators, and personal protection. The States wanted insurance against a
    Federal Gov't takeover. The 'militia' provision assured this. Disarming the
    citizenry was an important tool in controlling a population, practiced by many
    European countries at the time. Gun ownership was necessary in the States then,
    and the elimination of such a real possibility.

    That said, there is no justifiable reason for personal ownership of automatic,
    and semi-automatic weapons, except the reason that everyone is afraid to say:
    Overthrow of the U.S. Gov't. This is why the Fed. Gov't controls the National
    Guard, assimilated into the command structure of the DOD since 1903.

    I haven't seen any arguments for ownership of automatic weapons, other than flag
    waving and vague references to the 2nd Amendment. This is an example of old law
    being forced to apply to new technology. Sound familiar?

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    It's easy, refuse to be terrorized
    Authored by: marcosdumay on Tuesday, December 25 2012 @ 07:59 PM EST
    Those mass murders don't happen because husn are available. They happen because
    you turn everybody that do them into celebrities. And adolescents dream of
    becoming celebrities.

    Now, about gun control. We at Brazil intensified a lot our government's controll
    at the early 2000's. Soon after that criminality exploded in every city, even
    the smaler ones. There are some pointers for causality on that, but nobody ever
    gets sure of anything in sociology.

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    A really Good Article on this topic and some points
    Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, December 26 2012 @ 04:04 PM EST
    A Harvard Lecture On Gun Control

    A few points

    1. In order for gun control to have an effect on
    violence/crime the criminal / violent elements the controls
    would need to keep the guns out of the hands of the criminals/violent person(s).


    2. With conceal carry laws; The empirical evidence does not
    show statistically either way that the laws, although
    designed to have more guns carried/hence
    available in public places, affect crime rates either way. To assume that the law did not change the number of
    people carrying guns, goes back to point 1.

    Gun control in itself is a read-hearing, in my opinion.
    Other things have led to higher crime rates;

    1. The destruction of the community (Seriously can you name
    all your neighbors and point out one thing EG; a Hobby or interest of each of them?)

    2. Raised stress levels by being connected all the time

    3. Generally, people are just more angry, less friendly, and less empathetic (see points 1 and 2) toward each other

    4. Our society as a whole is drifting towards individual
    isolation while still being connected. Talking online
    or by email/electronically displaces but does not
    really replace genuine interpersonal exchanges.
    Consider that 46% of the US population has smartphones and
    what this means. Those 46% are available at all times
    by; email, facebook/social network, telephone, and text
    . Some socialogist/psychologists are calling this new
    trend technology addiction and have been studying
    what causes it and it's negative effects. This trend supports the gun violence is elaborate suicide theory

    5. Due to insurance companies wanting the quickest/easiest fix
    we give troubled people pharmaceutics (Anti- depressants, ETC)
    instead of support and counseling. Couple that with;
    a. The lack of community support
    b. isolation
    c. less friendly people
    d. Higher stress
    e. Media imagery glorifying violence
    f. An economy with high unemployment and high underemployment
    g. Media depicting a bleak outlook in general
    And then add guns on top of it.. well guns are only a small
    part of the problem. Keep in mind if someone wanted to
    kill lots of people they can do it without guns...
    or a better question is how many guns were used in the 9-11 attacks?

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

    A rarely discussed statistic, murder by government
    Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, December 27 2012 @ 03:34 PM EST
    When Guns are Outlawed, Only the Government Will Have Guns
    ... over 4 out of 5 violent deaths (83%) are the result of murder by the host government with the remaining 17% comprised by 11% war casualties and 6% civilian murder

    [ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

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