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Since everything can be described by mathematics, it really doesn't matter. | 758 comments | Create New Account
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Since everything can be described by mathematics, it really doesn't matter.
Authored by: PolR on Monday, October 15 2012 @ 04:35 PM EDT
I feel like we are separated by different view points which obscure the communication. I also we are making progress. We learn from each other. You are giving up the discussion too soon.

Here are a few points where I have something to add.

The hardware only follows the instructions present in the software. For mathematic/algorithm based patents to be valid they need to be a part of a possibly real machine; they must transcend from the pure theoretical into the real. So my focus has been on how software is an extension or customization of the characteristics that the hardware can exhibit.
Then I must mention this: mathematical algorithms are intended to be executed. By intended I don't mean the intention of the programmer. I mean the intention behind the very definition of the concept of algorithm. When Alan Turin, Alonzo Church, Kurt Godel, Stephen Kleene and many others developed the foundational concept of computation theory their intention was to define what is a computational procedure which could be actually carried out to solve problems. This was in the 1920s and 1930s, well before the invention of the computer.

You don't need to argue the programmer's or user's intention. You can go directly to the fundamental notions of algorithm and computation and show the intentions of the mathematicians who have discovered the mathematical foundations of computer science.

If you wish I suggest you consult some references. This article in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy reports where to find quotations of Alan Turing which indicates this intention. Or you may read the PDF file of his seminal article (downloadable at the link). This is the article where he first present both the Turing machine and the universal Turing machine. The text is in mathematical language but if you go directly to section 9 you will find a plain English justification of why he defined the Turing machine the way he did. The intention of being executable is apparent. Does this help?

My understanding is that contents are likely never patentable, they may be copyrightable though. Hence my focus has not been in consideration of content. I don't believe software is to be considered as content as far as patents should be concerned.
Please explain why. My article brings all the ingredients necessary to prove software is contents.

From your post it seems that utility is a sticking point. Is contents useful? I think that in many cases it can be useful. A phone book is useful. Pictures at a crime scene or used to support insurance claims are useful. I don't think utility distinguishes contents from a patentable invention.

No I didn't overlooked utility. I believe mathematics and contents are not patentable even though they could be useful. This is reflected in my argument about the intention of the mathematicians. It shows that the idea that abstract mathematics isn't meant to be useful is a myth. Computations are meant to be carried out to solve problems. I believe useful is not the opposite of abstract.

I would not consider the operands for such instructions to be a component of materials you may categorize as contents all the time. It's very possible that these instructions may be called with operands that have been previously set by software during the execution of prior instructions. In this case, the operand is merely part of the existing machine state, and not a part of content.
What is the difference between machine state and contents? Operands are bits. They are symbols. We can inspect them with a debugger and ascertain their meanings. What you call machine states is symbolic data which has meanings. Contents doesn't stop being contents just because the end user doesn't watch it. Cuneiform tablets were contents even during these centuries where they were buried in the sand and nobody knew the language.

I think you should look again at the concept of universal algorithm. The instructions are data. They are symbols. They are input to an algorithm which is executed. Why would this input be different from other inputs? All data is a machine state in some sense.

You should also consider the situation where the universal algorithm is not the hardware instruction cycle. Why would a bytecode be something other than data? How about programs for language which don't follow the imperative paradigm? These programs are not instructions. The notion of a program directing the hardware is not applicable in these cases.

One of the reasons I brought the abacus, the user and the instructions (on paper) into my first post was to simplify the computing system and bring things to it's very basics so that what software does exactly may become more obvious.
You have simplified some aspects of the issue. But in doing so you have evacuated the notion of universal algorithm. Your analysis is not complete until you have taken this into account. The existence of the universal algorithm is key in showing why software is contents because it is what distinguishes a stored program computer from a dedicated circuit. You can't account for the general purpose character of the computer without this notion. Actually, without it you don't have software. You just have a computation.

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