decoration decoration
Stories

GROKLAW
When you want to know more...
decoration
For layout only
Home
Archives
Site Map
Search
About Groklaw
Awards
Legal Research
Timelines
ApplevSamsung
ApplevSamsung p.2
ArchiveExplorer
Autozone
Bilski
Cases
Cast: Lawyers
Comes v. MS
Contracts/Documents
Courts
DRM
Gordon v MS
GPL
Grokdoc
HTML How To
IPI v RH
IV v. Google
Legal Docs
Lodsys
MS Litigations
MSvB&N
News Picks
Novell v. MS
Novell-MS Deal
ODF/OOXML
OOXML Appeals
OraclevGoogle
Patents
ProjectMonterey
Psystar
Quote Database
Red Hat v SCO
Salus Book
SCEA v Hotz
SCO Appeals
SCO Bankruptcy
SCO Financials
SCO Overview
SCO v IBM
SCO v Novell
SCO:Soup2Nuts
SCOsource
Sean Daly
Software Patents
Switch to Linux
Transcripts
Unix Books

Gear

Groklaw Gear

Click here to send an email to the editor of this weblog.


You won't find me on Facebook


Donate

Donate Paypal


No Legal Advice

The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

Here's Groklaw's comments policy.


What's New

STORIES
No new stories

COMMENTS last 48 hrs
No new comments


Sponsors

Hosting:
hosted by ibiblio

On servers donated to ibiblio by AMD.

Webmaster
Conclusion in Part 2? | 758 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
I am not a lawyer
Authored by: PolR on Sunday, October 14 2012 @ 12:31 AM EDT
I hope lawyers know how to read stuff written by non lawyers. I have gone out of
my way to explain technology in terms that may be understood by a layman and now
I am expected to write like a lawyer? Why wouldn't lawyers travel their half of
the road?

Let me respond to your tangent because it is interesting. When I talk about
symbols, I mean all representations of symbols, not just written memory. Symbols
also occur in communication devices.

There is a difference between symbols and hardware. As I said this is the
difference between a letter and a mark of ink on paper.

I think it is possible to patent hardware without patenting the symbols. This
requires to stop conflating a bit with a voltage or an electric current or some
other form of physical representation. It also requires to stop describing the
hardware by stating the meaning of the bits and expect that the claim covers all
hardware where the symbols have the same meanings. This is claiming the
computation while pretending the patent is on hardware.

I believe people who believe bits is something physical will have a hard time to
adjust. But we are in a pickle with software patents precisely because hardware
and symbols are systematically conflated.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Legal Writing 101 - you didn't attend
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, October 14 2012 @ 04:36 AM EDT

...most lawyers will not pay attention because the writing is not structured in a way that they can follow.
And yet [patent] lawyers are able to take computer software which is definitely not written in the way you suggest (say what you're going to say, say it and then say what you've just said - just like an English essay) and so not have the structure they can follow and yet understand it (sic) and convert it into legalese for a patent.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Legal Writing 101 - you didn't attend
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, October 14 2012 @ 01:40 PM EDT
hmmm

An algorithm for Legal Writing.

All rights reserved.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

"WE've" already done this!
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, October 14 2012 @ 06:50 PM EDT
Where WE is the UK!

Coming from a Science/Philosophy background I have always been intrigued why we automatically accept that scientific theories and discoveries (quite rightly) are not patentable. The ontological links between science and technology do not seem to be as problematic as between mathematical programming and its use in technology.

In the UK we now have this test: from the Manual of Patent Practice (read or download directly via this link - or see the document, in context, at the Intellectual Property Office)

"PART I: NEW DOMESTIC LAW, PATENTABILITY, Section 1: Patentable inventions:

The Patents Act 1977 sets out for the first time to codify what is meant by a patentable invention. Previous legislation up to and including the 1949 Act had merely repeated the stipulation, originally set out in the Statute of Monopolies of 1623, that a patent may be granted only for a manner of new manufacture. ..."

It then gives a 4 step test and defines that an invention has to meet these. However, the important part comes in the 4th step which refers to EXCLUSIONs in subsections 2 and 3 or section 4A:

Section 1(2)

It is hereby declared that the following (among other things) are not inventions for the purposes of this Act, that is to say, anything which consists of -

(a) a discovery, scientific theory or mathematical method;
(b) a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work or any other aesthetic creation whatsoever;
(c) a scheme, rule or method for performing a mental act, playing a game or doing business, or a program for a computer;
(d) the presentation of information;

NOTE: There are then relevant sections (below) that give a brief exposition of the reasons and examples of disallowed (and allowed as a (necessary or otherwise?) PART of a novel device/invention) uses in Computers. Then come various tests in headings under:

'Substance over form'; 'Discoveries, scientific theories or mathematical methods'; Schemes, rules or methods for performing a mental act, playing a game or doing business; programs for a computer

However, it is revealing also to read the sections on: 'Aesthetic creations'; 'Exploitation contrary to public policy or morality'; and 'Plant and animal varieties, and "essentially biological processes", ' - although I believe the latter may prove problematic in the US if memory serves?

I have my own set of beliefs about benefits to humanity and tests about the classes of things that should NOT be patentable solely in their own right. Fortunately, our recent UK reinterpretation of the concept of patentable works pretty well with these. How does it compare to yours in the US? I accept it does not directly address the problem of the article but think it does present a different angle of attack by presenting analogical ways of comparing "programs" and the reasons for non-patentability?

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Good advice
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, October 15 2012 @ 05:25 PM EDT
Good advice. This is not an easy subject to write about. Taking several
philosophy courses should help tremendously.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Conclusion in Part 2?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, October 15 2012 @ 10:14 PM EDT
I suspect the conclusion will be in part 2 and will be properly identified.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Groklaw © Copyright 2003-2013 Pamela Jones.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners.
Comments are owned by the individual posters.

PJ's articles are licensed under a Creative Commons License. ( Details )