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Not a waste of time; the logical place to draw the line | 1347 comments | Create New Account
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Thanks a lot, and a clarification
Authored by: PolR on Tuesday, June 12 2012 @ 12:02 PM EDT
And you are right that it is a "fiction" of a new machine. It is the practical effect. But why does it matter?
It matters because we need to have a legal analysis connected to reality. We can't have that when we treat software for what it is not. A machine is not the same thing as the practical effect of making a machine without actually making the machine. We can't treat the two situations as if they were the same without making errors of logic somewhere.
Because the merits of the invention should be on the inventive principle, and not the form it takes. [snip] What should matter is whether the end product is/does something that nothing could do before.
Isn't this reading Section 101 out of the statute? Patentable subject matter is broad, but it is not without limits. Whether the invention is patentable subject matter has nothing to do with the merits. Patents are not a reward for the sweat of the brow. How can you know whether the subject matter is in or off limit if you think of it in terms of a fiction? This can't be done. But the statute requires that this is done.

I believe this is the main reason why section 101 case law is such an awful mess. The Federal Circuit insists on analyzing the subject matter of software in terms of a fiction. As a result the entire patent system is forbidden to analyze the facts as they are. The result is patent nonsense. (pun intended) Why not do an analysis based on facts that are correct and see if things get simpler?

It is a waste of time to debate whether the solution is carried out in a special purpose machine or a general purpose one (or in software v. hardware).
This can't be true. A patent can limit a hardware invention to the structure of the hardware when the invention lies in the structure. People will remain free to implement the capability using a different structure. If you equate capability with machine, the invention is no longer limited to the structure. The patent will read on structures which have not been invented.

If the invention does not lie in the structure it should not be reasoned about as if a structure was made. If you do you lose your connection with reality. The patent should make clear that the invention is a process and not a structure so we know what is the claimed subject matter.

Your article presuppose section 101 is impossible and the you move to the other sections. But when we ask for a fact based analysis you say this is a waste of time. But it turns out that what you call the waste of time is exactly the analysis needed to fix the section 101 mess. This logic is circular. The obvious solution is to look at what the subject matter actually is and stop analyzing a fiction.

Are you trying to expand patent rights to mathematics?

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Not a waste of time; the logical place to draw the line
Authored by: RMAC9.5 on Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 05:59 AM EDT
mrisch wrote
It is a waste of time to debate whether the solution is carried out in a special purpose machine or a general purpose one (or in software v. hardware).
Mr. Risch, it is not a waste of time to debate the general vs special purpose machine question. IMHO, it is the crux of the matter.

As I replied to you in another comment, process patents have the natural limitation of protecting a specific patented process. Other inventors still have an opportunity to use a "different" process to achieve the same result. A machine patent on a special purpose machine has a similar natural limitation. Other inventors still have an opportunity to create a "different" machine to achieve the same result.

Software "machine type" patents on special purpose hardware might work if the patent claims were narrowly written so that competition is possible.

Software "process type" patents on general purpose hardware might work if the patent claims were narrowly written so that competition is possible.

Software "machine type" patents on general purpose hardware will NEVER work because competition becomes impossible and innovation comes to a complete stop. If you don't believe this, think about what Internet Explorer was like after Microsoft destroyed Netscape and before Firefox was born!

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

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