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| Authored by: pem on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 11:38 AM EDT |
You say:
"Interoperability has never been part of this case, and even if
compatibility is somehow twisted to be a form of interoperability..."
But Sun's paper explicitly warns that the proposed patent regime
"effectively leaves existing dominant rights holders with a de facto veto
over new and competing products. "
If that doesn't say that Sun was worried about compatibility, I don't know what
does.
In any case, I completely disagree with your assessment. If Oracle wins, unless
any judgment against Google is very narrowly tailored, it could be construed to
make it impossible to clone an API.
That is what I am most worried about in this instance; and that is precisely the
sort of outcome that this paper warns about (but from a patent rather than a
copyright stance).
[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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| Authored by: BJ on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 01:17 PM EDT |
... how an Oracle victory would ruin
software development
forever (I can see why people could
think that ...
Please explain
to me why you think that other people might see
it like
that.
bjd
[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 01:24 PM EDT |
I've never commented on groklaw and may never again , but you're still
trolling. You've changed your demeanor a bit, but the substance of your posts
hasn't changed. In the time I've been following groklaw it is pretty clear no
one
cares that you've made contrary statements. However, if you're going to you
need to back them up and you've done nothing but make matter of fact
statements. So you're an experienced java programmer? Congratulations
because I'm a tiger. Isn't it impressive how I can type (on a touchscreen no
less) with my massive paws? My point is that your statements don't
automatically get weight because you say they should. So start making
substantive arguments and backing up your claims before spouting the
righteous indignation. Maybe then a productive discussion could be had.[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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| Authored by: PJ on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 02:12 PM EDT |
You need to leave, since you find it childish
to be polite.
Yes. Seriously.
Your bias is showing, by the way. And so is
your lack of legal knowledge. This case really
does mean that software development will be
adversely affected if Oracle prevails. It will
change legally what people have to do to
program. You may only care about yourself and
feel that it won't impact you personally, but
it will impact FOSS development very, very
much.
Here is why: FOSS developers often can't afford
to hire lawyers when they are coding away. It's
how it is. People code in their spare time, for
fun and pleasure and to be able to have something
that works for them and others.
Look at Project Harmony. Think about Wine. Think
about any software that needs to interoperate or
wishes to act similarly to any program out there.
If APIs need permissions, the whole world will be
affected for sure, because currently that is not
the case for most software.
The end result will be exactly what Sun said it
would be -- higher prices and fewer choices.
Now, maybe you are fine with that. You say you are
a Java guy, so maybe you work for someone who has
a license and you have no dreams of leaving the
Java reservation.
But Google wanted to work with Sun in Java, the
whole kit and kaboodle, if the end result could be
open, and they just couldn't do the deal. Google says
it was because of Sun's wanting too much control.
Anyone who knows how Sun operated doesn't find that
too hard to believe.
So it decided if it had to work alone, it would
do something itself, clean room, and better, much
better than Java, and it did.
Now, Oracle wants Google back on the reservation,
and Google likes to be free. This case has nothing to
do with these two sad sack patents. Like you say, it's
"just" business. Oracle is using patents and copyrights
to try to get an injunction against Android, so that
Google will be forced to come back to their Java and
give up its own work.
Now, you may say, so what? I say: courts are not
supposed to be used for anti-competitive purposes.
You can be as cynical as you please, but I choose
to recall that societies are built on values, on
decisions about what folks are supposed to do and
not do. It's called the rule of law. When folks,
even lawyers, get so cynical they are willing to
even tell fibs in court, the whole system starts
to break down.
Now, I think that matters.
Also, I believe you have forgotten something. Back
when I was covering the SCO wars, I was endlessly
accused of bias. But in the end, it came out just
as I was writing about it. I wasn't biased. I was
right.
Now, we'll wait to see what happens here. And from
the start, I didn't always take anybody's side. The
first thing I wrote about was that Google should have
used the GPL code, for example, and I took them to
task about it, but recently we learned that when
Android was being developed, it was prior to Sun
releasing Java under the GPL. So what I wrote wasn't
actually totally fair. But I did write it. And
then I basically let Mark write about the case. I'm
not a patent expert, and while I could study up on it,
I hate software patents and I find patent law unbearably
boring, so I didn't write about the case at all.
My articles for the past year or so have my initials. All
the rest are by Mark, and he's a lawyer, so there's no
use calling him "biased" for having a legal opinion. It'd
be as silly as me saying your opinions about certain
Java code are biased.
I mean, you are out of your depth here when it comes to
the legal aspect of things. And it shows.
Now, here's your assignment: go find articles about
what a win for Oracle will mean. I've done that and
posted links to them here. I found quite a few that
say that I'm right, that it will ruin software development
and change it forever, with special impact on FOSS.
See if you can find some that say that is hooey, will you?
You can post them here. That would be more useful than
the ad hominem approach you are following now. And
it's useless to call me dishonest. Everybody here knows
me for a decade now, and they know that is the last
thing you can call me and be right.
My indignation is precisely because I value truth, and I
think it matters very much in a courtroom. It's what
courts are for, to figure out the truth of a dispute.
If people cheat or lie, the process fails and that
results in injustice.
I saw your cynicism about that, but you don't think
it's an injustice if a party has to pay millions or
billions when it didn't do anything wrong?
Just think.
And by the way, I think you have forgotten what Groklaw
is for. You can read about it in our About Groklaw
page. It's an experiment in a new kind of journalism,
one for which we've won awards. So if your ruler's
edge is the New York Times, you are using the wrong
ruler.
Groklaw is like a watcher, looking for cases that
I believe can impact the FOSS community negatively.
It's designed to explain the law to techies and
the tech to lawyers. That is what it's for and that
is what we do.
And while I wasn't much interested in this case at first,
and in fact was trying to retire from Groklaw, when
Oracle came up with the copyrighting of APIs, I woke
up and realized this is what Groklaw is for. I only
wish I'd realized sooner, so I could have found
things like this public position statement on patents,
and if you think it has no use in a court of law, I
suggest you wait and see.
Now, read our comments policy. IF you can't abide by
it, get out.
By the way, are you in Israel or just using someone
else's server? If you are in Israel, might that
explain why you don't care about the results of a
case in the US?[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]
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- What is this, kindergarten? - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 02:50 PM EDT
- What is this, kindergarten? - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 03:03 PM EDT
- And BTW... - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 03:37 PM EDT
- And BTW... - Authored by: PJ on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 03:56 PM EDT
- Homework - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 04:08 PM EDT
- What is this, kindergarten? - Authored by: PJ on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 04:01 PM EDT
- What is this, kindergarten? - Authored by: PJ on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 04:13 PM EDT
- What is this, kindergarten? - Authored by: Wol on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 04:21 PM EDT
- On interoperability and on WINE - Authored by: bugstomper on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 06:45 PM EDT
- What is this, kindergarten? - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 05:50 PM EDT
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