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Technically true, but irrelevant and ridiculously misleading | 162 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Oracle v. Google - Day 14 Filings - JMOL's Denied In Part
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 11 2012 @ 08:32 AM EDT
I suspect this is because if you have a interface which requires a function foo,
and the implementation of foo uses a function blah, that does not mean that blah
is required. Another implementation of foo could use a function fee instead.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Technically true, but irrelevant and ridiculously misleading
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 11 2012 @ 09:07 AM EDT
It would be wrong to say that a class or method is somehow “core” to the language simply because another class refers to it.

There is nothing wrong with that statement taken in isolation, it is factually correct - I could write a class referring to another class, which is not "core" to any language.

In the context that they set it, however it is totally misleading. They are suggesting that if core classes depend on other classes then those other classes are not necessarily to be considered "core".

There is almost a shred of basis to this argument if they are considering classes encapsulating other classes (ie. a core class "Car" CONTAINS a "SteeringWheel"), as long as the encapsulated "SteeringWheel" class is only an internal implementation detail and never exposed externally.

What they are trying to imply however is that if a core class extends another class (ie. a core class "Car" IS A "Vehicle", then the "Vehicle" class is not necessarily to be considered a core class.

That implication is completely and utterly without merit on any level, and cannot be justified by logic or the meanings of the terms in software. To claim that a subclass is core with the superclass being non-core would be to make the software uncompilable in a reference system, and would break very basic tenets of OO design.

Also in the encapsulation case, if any of the inputs or outputs of the method refer to the encapsulated class in any way (such as accessing the "SteeringWheel" in order to turn the "Car", adding a new "SteeringWheel", checking the settings on the "SteeringWheel", or specifying the "SteeringWheel" on a newly created car, then the "SteeringWheel" must be considered a core class.

The class hierarchy is fundamental to the classes themselves, and all core classes must have all their ancestors as core. Same goes for interfaces.

If it's an entirely encapsulated (hidden) class within a "core" class (ie the "SteeringWheel" is within a totally and permanently sealed "Car" and can never be observed or interacted with externally), then it's an implementation detail, and does not necessarily mean the class is necessary for an independent implementation. In that case only it is arguable (but not necessarily reasonable or sane) that the "SteeringWheel" be considered non core.

Of course the SSO copyright argument is totally bogus from so many angles anyway, but even if we accept it, the naming conventions of the libraries clearly show that all java.* APIs are by definition core to the language (arguably javax.* too.) If there were any that were proprietary, then they would be stored in a separate namespace - as was done with sun.* and many many others.

I don't believe there is any basis to believe anything other than all java.* APIs are core, as (to my knowledge) nobody has ever defined anything as "core" to the language, and it is plain that parts of java.* are required for all programs. Oracle are trying whatever they can to remove key functionality from what is "core" from a purely legal POV rather than what makes sense. They deserve to lose this decisively.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Oracle v. Google - Day 14 Filings - JMOL's Denied In Part
Authored by: tknarr on Friday, May 11 2012 @ 02:45 PM EDT

It sounds like Oracle's trying to dodge around things like java.String being counted as core just because everything has to refer to them. Which I'd counter by "Our argument isn't that everything refers to them or uses them. It's that the language specification itself refers to them. If something the language specification itself says is part of the language isn't core, what is?".

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

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