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The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

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PJ's not claiming it's relevant--Oracle is | 178 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Bad Legal Question PJ
Authored by: darrellb on Friday, April 20 2012 @ 12:03 PM EDT
Brain surgery is unimaginably difficult, it doesn't make the patient's brain copyrightable.

Brain surgery is unimaginably difficult, it doesn't make the surgery procedure copyrightable.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

To be fair to PJ...
Authored by: hardmath on Friday, April 20 2012 @ 12:20 PM EDT

She's asking about whether the difficulty is a matter of creativity or something unprotectable:

[W]hy are APIs hard to write? Is it because there is so much creative expression necessary to decide how to group and organize the various components that go into the API? Or is it because, in developing an API, one must consider all of the technical elements that need to be addressed...

As a programmer I think the interface is the sine qua non of unprotectable elements in the design of a class library, the bare bones of merely functional elements (names and signatures) that provide the method for operation of the class library. It's a nearly mathematical proposition.

Be as creative as you wish or need to be in designing the class library. Pull out the (publically callable) method names and signatures, and that's the stuff Android & Harmony have reproduced. Linus made essentially the same argument when FM tried to say Google was violating the GPL by making headers for calling into the Linux kernel, the operating system API.

---
Do the arithmetic or be doomed to talk nonsense. -- John McCarthy (1927-2011)

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Correction ~PJ -> Mark
Authored by: Ian Al on Friday, April 20 2012 @ 12:27 PM EDT
As far as we know, PJ has not worked for Red Hat.

---
Regards
Ian Al
Software Patents: It's the disclosed functions in the patent, stupid!

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

PJ's not claiming it's relevant--Oracle is
Authored by: xtifr on Friday, April 20 2012 @ 05:38 PM EDT

I don't know why you're criticizing PJ here--it's Oracle, not PJ, who seems to be claiming that hard work means copyrightable. I'm sure that PJ and everyone else here agrees with you that it shouldn't, but the judge allowed Oracle to bring that argument to trial, so PJ wants to take a closer look. Is that so wrong? If we just dogmatically assume that Oracle is wrong, we may overlook something important, so I think the question is very much worth a closer look, despite the fact that I find Oracle's position to be preposterous on the face of it.

---
Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to light.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

Bad Legal Question PJ
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 20 2012 @ 07:49 PM EDT

You are right, difficulty is not necessary and sufficient for copyright protection. Some of your examples could be protected. ("I love you" in arranged atoms looks like expression in tangible form to this layman. You would not own the phrase I love you, but your arrangement would be infringed if someone published their atomic I love you by copying your specific arrangement.)

One could look at an api as a listing of facts: within a compatible runtime, provide this parameter to a method with this name and you will get a an object of a certain type in return. (Look further to understand the side effects...) Programmers look up the facts of access and returns all the time and it would be absurd for the authors of a programming language to claim rights to all binaries and scripts which use the language they designed.

But, let's think of collections of facts, for instance, an almanac, a dictionary, the Guiness Book of World Records. While each individual fact is not protected, the entirety of a chapter or the whole publication could be. The Information Please people were not entitled to just typeset the World Almanac, because each element was factual, and in fact represented collection rather than authorship. And the rationale has been that a non-trivial amount of work took place to create the collection.

So we come back to the question: are apis protected expression? The argument no is that an api is still just a fact. The argument yes is that an api listing, because of the work involved, becomes a dictionary-like publication and has protection for significant sections, even though every entry is documentation of a public domain langauge. For this argument, think of the api documentation for a java package as a dictionary's chapter for the letter K.

Bottom line: open question. There is no obvious answer, otherwise we would not be having a trial on the issue. As I think about, I hope apis are not protected. I consider us all beneficiaries for the unix apis being widely broadcast. If there was a way to acquire rights which could form the basis for suing deep-pocketed Apple over the unix apis in OS X, there'd be someone to jump up and buy those rights from Novell's successor.

[ Reply to This | Parent | # ]

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