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Now We're Having Fun
Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:35 AM EDT

If you go to the court docket list here, and you no longer need a Pacer account to access this material (SCO was bumped up to High Profile Case, and look at the bottom of the list of events, you'll see this interesting notation:

"Filed: 08/28/03
"Entered: 08/29/0
"Docket Text: Return of service executed re: Subpoena served on Canopy Group c/o Ralph Yanno on 8/26/03"


Think IBM has the big picture?


  


Now We're Having Fun | 101 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 08:48 AM EDT
I wonder why SCO has been so quiet these days. Could the outages during non-working hours be related to their trying to save bandwidth costs? Could they be closer to bankruptcy than we all think.

Given the rate of FUD slinging they were involved in I would think that there is something more important on their minds right now than FUD ?-|


minkwe

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 08:51 AM EDT
You might be jumping to conclusions. Maybe.

Yarro is on the board of SCO. His contact details are probably via Canopy. So you'd expect them to want to ask him a few questions.

Is that all it says? Would IBM have the choice of contacting him via SCO or Canopy?

On the other hand: It doesn't look like they wasted much time to go direct to Yarro

Any additional information?


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 08:53 AM EDT
This certainly is an interesting development. PJ - is there any way to get the text of the subpoena?

td


Thomas Downing

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 08:54 AM EDT
IBM has just subpoened Canopy and Yarro (not SCO and McBride) for something. If they find evidence that Canopy was manipulating this whole debacle through SCO, there goes Canopy's "we're just the holding company" excuse.

http://www.utd.uscour ts.gov/documents/ibm_hist.html

Business owners who have incorporated their businesses must be aware that corporate shareholders may be held legally responsible for the liabilities of the corporation. The law allows creditors or claimants to "pierce the corporate veil" under certain circumstances and hold the shareholders personally liable.

The theory behind this legal concept is that shareholders who blur the distinction between the corporation and themselves should not be allowed to hide behind the corporate veil.

http://www.bizadvisor.com/pierce.htm


Levi

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:09 AM EDT
Points taken. I'm going to partially correct myself

> Yarro is on the board of SCO. His contact details are probably via Canopy. So you'd expect them to want to ask him a few questions.

That is all true, but the summary says they subpoena Canopy, not SCO.

So while it's hard to read too much into a short summary, it certainly sounds like they might be asking questions about Canopy.


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:13 AM EDT
BTW, another thing bothering me about the invoices.

SCO says the licenses are non-refundable (there's a quote to this effect)

So according to them:

1. If you talk (about Linux) publicly, it'll get you on the hitlist (although I'm not sure how they intend to figure out how much for)

2. If you get the invoice, you're supposed to pay, without knowing exactly why, except it avoids the possibility of them taking action against you.

3. If later turns they have no legit claim, tough luck


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:28 AM EDT
pj & quatermass,

Any way to find out what Yarro got?

Anyone actually got an invoice? This is a research site so I was hoping we could find someone who has one and then get a copy of the text here.

Is it a legal requirement that software be refundable to some point? Every major piece of software I've ever bought (including MS products) have some kind of refund policy.

Keep up the good work.


BubbaCode

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:40 AM EDT
From what i've been able to make out: IBM have issued a subpena to the canopy
group. Doesn't this simply mean that they now have to give evidence in the
SCO/IBM case, opposed to actually being involved in the litigation itself? style="height: 2px; width: 20%; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: auto;">Stephen
Henry

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:45 AM EDT
I don't think this like has been posted yet. Some quotes from our favorite analyst. It looks like SCO is planning invoices for the end of Sept. newsfactor
Mike BMW

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:46 AM EDT
Idle speculation

Could it be they are asking for personal financial information. Such as tax forms, stock sales, etc. Maybe they are pressing the stock manipulation angle a little.

Just a thought.


BubbaCode

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:47 AM EDT
That should have read "link" not "like" in my previous post. Gads makes me sound
like my daughter 8)
Mike BMW

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:48 AM EDT
> So while it's hard to read too much into a short summary, it certainly sounds like they might be asking questions about Canopy.

correction:

So while it's hard to read too much into a short summary, it certainly sounds like they might be asking Canopy questions about either SCO or Canopy - we don't currently know wat the questions are about.

I'd go back to my original position: be careful of reading too much into it.

Re: invoices. I don't think that they have sent any yet. The plan has been floated by SCO since fairly early in August. Now they seem to say that they'll start sending them this month.


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:50 AM EDT
Hopefully that misspelling of Yarro's name doesn't gum anything up. I know that
some courts are sticklers for getting things like names on subpoenas correctly
(as its the least you should expect from the cash you're raining down on an army
of expensive attorneys among other reasons).
Z

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:58 AM EDT
Probably an OCR error on the electronic side (you can probably see how 'r' can be taken for 'n' by software -- a very typical OCR problem. Cannot be easily fixed by the software in this case because it's a name and not in the dictionary -- also, the context 'a' might give 'nn' higher probability than 'rr').

The physical documents are probably correct.


eloj

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:59 AM EDT
Z. We don't know if it was mispelt on the subpoena. It might be whoever typed in the summary listing, misread N for R when looking at some paper document.

Another thing bugging me about the invoice idea:

Presumably the invoice is for a license under specific terms, like the SCO Linux IP license. The "customer" hasn't to my knowledge accepted those terms.

What mean then, is how can SCO invoice according to a particular set of legal terms, when the other party hasn't accepted those terms as yet.

Can you force somebody to accept a particular contract?


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:04 AM EDT
Levi ... Please give credit for the source of your posts: Yahoo SCO message board #36857 was mine, under the ID abacaxitoo. You not only used the word debacle, but preserved the incorrect spelling of "subpoened" in your cut and paste and minor edit. I don't mind being quoted, but I get pissed off by people stealing my work.

*my Yahoo post** IBM has just subpoened Canopy and Yarro (not SCO and McBride) for something. If they find evidence that Canopy was manipulating this whole debacle through SCO, there goes Canopy's "we're just the holding company" excuse ... and there goes everybody's profits.

See www.bizadvisor DOT COM/pierce.htm (danged yahoo won't let me post the link) "Business owners who have incorporated their businesses must be aware that corporate shareholders may be held legally responsible for the liabilities of the corporation. The law allows creditors or claimants to "pierce the corporate veil" under certain circumstances and hold the shareholders personally liable.

The theory behind this legal concept is that shareholders who blur the distinction between the corporation and themselves should not be allowed to hide behind the corporate veil."

*


Tsu Dho Nimh

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:08 AM EDT
O.K., this is a plug for some SCO humour: http://timransomsfeeblemind.blog spot.com Thanks again
Tim Ransom

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:14 AM EDT
I hope that IBM goes after the entire Canopy nest of cockroaches rather than
just the SCO-scum cockroach. I suspect that Canopy reps are on the SCO-scum
Board of Directors and with the SEC enforced changes on rules of governance, I
expect that legal accountability for SCO-scum's actions will filter up from
SCO-scum's management to its Board of Directors to the Canopy Group to Yarro
himself. Bring the very war that the enemy started to the enemy himself and
visit on him the horrors of war, I say.
blacklight

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:30 AM EDT
flights of imagination and OUT OF THE NORM RANTING to follow - to be taken with a grain of salt.

OK, I know that if SCO objects to this IBM must present credible proof that this discovery has more than a good chance of producing evidence relevant to SCO v IBM.
USENET, GROKLAW, Slashdot and Yahoo board postings would not provide that kind of support for discovery.

Which leads me to wonder what kind of resources IBM has thrown out there. Private investigators? inside - Informants? ex-employee affidavits?

And a subpoena is a FAR, FAR different animal than a motion for discovery isn't it? A raptor (subpoena) as opposed to a small fuzzy yellow chick.


Sanjeev

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:35 AM EDT
Pure speculation ... disgruntled former employees. Especially ones who were
Linux developers and got axed in favor of those trying to flog the dead UNIX
horse.
Tsu Dho Nimh

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:55 AM EDT
I 110% appoligize if this has been posted before, but even so I think its worth looking at again in light of this weeks events.

This is the LWN copy of the text of the SCO "Linux" license

http://lwn.net/Articles/43085/

Outside of the usual comments here about liability, trademarks, etc, please note how they define the various systems. VPN routers for example can not be embedded systems because you have users that you can add or delete. Devices like console servers or packet filters might not fall in the embedded category.


BubbaCode

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:55 AM EDT
I noticed that the docket list shows other subpoenas as "Certificate of
Service", while this one shows "Return of Service". Can anyone fill me in on
the difference?

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:01 AM EDT
SCO bills first 1,000 Linux users http://www.vnunet.com/News/1143376
cc

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:02 AM EDT
While SCO seems to be running a stock scam, the rewards going to Darl & Co are remarkably small. Most of the people selling shares will be lucky to see more than $300K after taxes this year. As they _are_ selling, there cannot be much expectation of an early win against IBM (indeed, if the selling orders were pre-announced to avoid problems with SEC, there seems to have never been any expection of a quick resolution except possibly for IBM to buy them out.)

Perhaps there is still a hope that they can sell SCO, even if not to IBM? What if their target is really a company such as Sun or HP? Normally they wouldn't be interested at the current price, but what if MS started making suggestive moves. Then the various unix companies might decide it was better to get together and buy out SCO rather than risk the possibility that MS could gain control of Unix source (I know that normally MS would not be allowed to buy SCO while it is a legal monopoly, but that assumes that the US government wanted to enforce the rules.)

Another fun sco site: http://www.rageagainst.net/sc ogenerator.php


geoff lane

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:07 AM EDT
Unless you are using the DMCA to get rubber-stamped subpoenas like the RIAA, a
subpoena means you showed a judge enough evidence to convince them that you are
probably right on a point related to the case. The fact that IBM got a subpoena
indicates that laid some pretty damning evidence in front of a judge. Any
indication of which jurisdiction issued the subpoena? If it was the courts there
in Utah, that at least SQUARES the power of the evidence in my opinion given
that SCO/Canopy has the hometown advantage.
J.F.

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:14 AM EDT
cc ...

Title is misleading ... they haven't actually done it yet. "SCO will start invoicing Linux users in the next two months, with the first batch of bills being sent to around 1,000 US users."

It's still pie in the sky, and they haven't acutally screwed up their courage enough to drop the letters in the mail.


Tsu Dho Nimh

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:29 AM EDT
Tsu: The article, or Stowell's comment, is actually much more imprecise, if he is correctly quoted, he does not even say that they will be sent, this is in argeement with the "we have never said that we will bill or sue any user" story

>> Blake Stowell, director of public relations at SCO, told vnunet.com: "A large number of commercial Linux users could begin receiving [invoices] in the next month or two.

>> "I would say that a batch in the neighbourhood of 1,000 or so would go out."


Magnus Lundin

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:33 AM EDT
PJ, can we have a comment on why subpeona not discovery motion
quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:37 AM EDT
Magnus ...
You are right. I didn't notice when they ramped up the volume on the
weasel-word generator beyone the previous level. I'm in awe of his fluent
weasel-speak.
Tsu Dho Nimh

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:39 AM EDT
quatermass -
IANAL, but AFAIK "discovery" is against the party you are in litigation with.
Everyone else gets a subpoena.
Tsu Dho Nimh

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:43 AM EDT
Any chance tat the text of the supoena will end up on pacer?
fava

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 11:47 AM EDT
fava -
We can only hope. I'd love to see what's in it. I hope it was the kind of
subpoena that comes with marshals and guns and chain cutters.
Tsu Dho Nimh

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 12:28 PM EDT
Here's a comment from Ryan Tibbits, SCO's in-house counsel, in a CENT story from June 3:

"The Canopy Group said SCO has got to hire somebody in-house to manage the IBM litigation,", Tibbits said.

That looks like piercing the corporate veil to me.

Legal action hits SCO Web Site


mec

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 12:59 PM EDT
From an IBM PR today:

Library of Congress hires IBM-

"We selected IBM as the infrastructure provider not only because of their support for the Linux operating system, but also because the openness and flexibility within the Linux platform can grow significantly with this project and that's what IBM and its servers with POWER technology gave to us, said Jim DeRoest, assistant director, Computing & Communications, University of Washington. "IBM is committed to understanding our unique requirements for this project and has provided a solution that will grow as our project and users demand."


sam

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 12:59 PM EDT
"Levi ... Please give credit for the source of your posts: Yahoo SCO message board #36857 was mine, under the ID abacaxitoo. You not only used the word debacle, but preserved the incorrect spelling of "subpoened" in your cut and paste and minor edit. I don't mind being quoted, but I get pissed off by people stealing my work."

Tsu Dho Nimh, sorry for stealing your work. Won't happen again! English is too difficult for me to speak or write, so i just shut the fuck up next time. It just happend that your thought was the same as mine and would be usefull in this board. I usually link when it's bigger comments, information.

Have a nice day! The thief!

PS: Credits for this english words goes to "Van Dale Nederlands - Engels Woordenboek" (dictionnary)


Levi

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 01:04 PM EDT
This, on the Yahoo SCOX board, pretty well summarizes the SCO-smells-like-BRE-X analogy.
Rand

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 01:15 PM EDT
Levi - No hard feelings :)

But remember, I have a copyright on the use of the word "debacle" to describe SCO's actions, so you will have to use "suicidal charge into the cannons", "catastrophe", "fiasco", or perhaps "self-immolation". (English has no shortage of words to describe self-destructive behavior)


Tsu Dho Nimh

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 01:27 PM EDT
Rand,
Let's hope the story ends the same as well. From geology.about.com web site.
"The postmortem is still going on in 2003 as the shareholder lawsuits make their
slow way through the courts."
Mike BMW

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 01:42 PM EDT
Sometimes LamLaw has a scoop that it is worth mentioning here: IBM still offers SCO Linux and support for it.


MathFox

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:00 PM EDT
My preference is that everyone here reflect the values of the site while here. One of those values is to treat others with some measure of respect. So far, we've been able to do that, and it's been refreshing as a result. I like to read your comments whenever I get a chance, and I have seen on other web sites where others have commented that the comments on Groklaw are at a very high level and well-worth reading.

In answer to questions, first, the only way I can think of to get to see the document now would be to go to the courthouse in Utah. But all you might see would be the one-page document showing that Yarro signed to accept service of the supoena. I don't know what that particular court requires as to attaching the actual subpoena to the proof of service.

The court notation is a bit puzzling in one respect. It says it was served on "Canopy Group, c/o Ralph Yarro",fixing the typo. Normally, you serve on an individual. For example, if you want to make a person attend a depostion, so you can ask them questions under oath, if the individual isn't a party to the lawsuit, then you subpoena them to compel them to attend. If what you want is papers, either delivered to you or the opportunity to go there and look through them, then you'd normally send a subpoena duces tecum or a Request For Inspection of Documents. Here's what law. com says in part about a subpoena duces tecum: " a court order requiring a witness to bring documents in the possession or under the control of the witness to a certain place at a certain time. This subpena must be served personally on the person subpenaed. It is the common way to obtain potentially useful evidence, such as documents and business records, in the possession of a third party. "

As for a regular subpoena, law.com's dictionary says in part: "an order of the court for a witness to appear at a particular time and place to testify and/or produce documents in the control of the witness (if a "subpena duces tecum"). A subpena is used to obtain testimony from a witness at both depositions (testimony under oath taken outside of court) and at trial. Subpenas are usually issued automatically by the court clerk but must be served personally on the party being summoned."

You might want to look at "discovery" and "deposition" and "depose" in the dictionary also. Just click on the icon. So, bottom line is, I don't yet know the details, but I'm sure we will in time. Exactly what IBM is asking for is still unclear, as is exactly who was served. Whenever I don't write anything, it means I don't know yet or I don't know enough to even make a public, educated guess. What I do know is that they are interested in Canopy Group or someone there. The clerk putting it into the system may have typed it oddly, or Utah is different than what I am used to, or who knows? I'll surely tell you when I do know.

If I lived near the courthouse, I'd walk on by and try to get a look, but I don't. All the details will eventually come out. Trials take time. They are more like a mud flow than a raging torrent. So this detail is interesting, but we just have to wait for more.


pj

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:02 PM EDT
"we have never said that we will bill or sue any user" story "A large number of commercial Linux users could begin receiving [invoices] in the next month or two. "I would say that a batch in the neighbourhood of 1,000 or so would go out."

Does someone have a "SCO lies" to English dictonary, or is this like listening to the Devil(or a lawyer)speaking? SCO seems to change it's story, as fast as their stocks change hands. But, of course we "know" the good people from Utah would not mislead us. SCUM would never lie to all the reporters and SCUM Unixware fans at SCUM Forum 2003. SCUM would not try to sell the us state of Utah, or anything else they do not legally own. If someone tried to sell something that was not their property, without due course of law, our government would arrest them, am I right??? Please tell me I am right. (or wake me up) The best explanation I can reason out is: someone in Lindon, Utah has a birthmark of sixes. :)

I appologize for the above rant. nm


nm

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:14 PM EDT
I caught this on Lamlaw (who is turn are pointing at Groklaw)

On this page it would seem that IBM is still selling systems with SCO Unix installed.

I wondered: Since one of the arguments that is popular goes "SCO still allows downloads of Linux, so they are still giving out code under the GPL" I wonder if IBM is shooting itself in the foot on it's patent infringment claims. After all, if SCO is infringing of 4 IBM patents and IBM continues to sell these SCO products, are they not saying it's OK for SCO to infringe? It's the same argument.


Shadowman99

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:19 PM EDT
1000 invoices? Just more FUD I reckon.

If they are ever sent, they will arrive in corporate America's accounts departments with a letter requesting confidentially. Receiving and even paying the invoice is not illegal, that is, not a whistleblowing activity, and financial activities (and even numbers of servers) are always confidential anyway, so how many accountants and their clerks are going to break their contracts of employment and let us see the paper?

SCO have said they are researching their targets before choosing them. They will pick businesses where the CEO and others with publicity power are unlikely to break ranks and publish or comment, for various reasons.

We may never know who got the invoices :-(


Chris Priest

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:21 PM EDT
A new disease -- SCO-lie-osis?

Sorry.


Frank Brickle

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:26 PM EDT
I just had a thought. Would it be possible to lobby federal officials to prosecute SCO in criminal court for violation of copyright law? After all, whether the GPL is valid or not, SCO's actions in continuing to distribute Linux while refusing to honor the GPL are in violation of copyright law (since nothing other than the GPL offers them permission to distribute it). Therefore, SCO has no logically sound basis under which they could argue that their ongoing violation of copyright law lacks criminal intent. (I suppose SCO could try an ostrich defense, but I don't think deliberately sticking one's head in the sand to avoid seeing the obvious generally flies in court.)

And if it would be possible to push for criminal prosecution, how would one go about trying to convince the federal government to prosecute?


Nathan Barclay

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:32 PM EDT
Shadowman99:

IBM is listing SCO Linux (or OpenLinux, whatver it's called these days). Not any of the products they are suing over.


Adam Ruth

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:33 PM EDT
Shadowman99: No IBM does not sell machines with SCO Unix. IBM does not
distribute Linux. But they do support people who runs SCO OpenLinux on their
machines, as they support RedHat, Suse and others.
Magnus Lundin

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:40 PM EDT
I called the United States District Court, District of Utah at (801) 524-6100. I
asked if they could fax me Document # 31-1 from case number 2:03cv00294, which
is the return of service executed. They said that that type of documement is
not scanned, so I'd have to pay per page to have it mailed to me. It's only a
few pages at $0.50 a piece. I didn't order it since I wouldn't know what to do
with it. Anyone here knowledgable enough to want to order it?
Ben Ploni

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:41 PM EDT
Shadowman, I think you'll find on that page that IBM are selliing Linux software which runs on OpenLinux.

Slightly more interesting is this page http://w ww-3.ibm.com/software/integration/websphere/mqplatforms/ but here you'll find it's a third party, Willow Tech., who have licensed WMQ for use on OpenServer, UnixWare and other minority Unix platforms. Again no licensing problems.


Chris Priest

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:44 PM EDT
Nathan Barclay: http://radio.weblogs.com /0120124/2003/06/15.html
Harlan

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:48 PM EDT
Google now has real-time news alerts! http://www.google.com/newsal erts?q=sco+linux Now you can feed you habit as it happens if you don't mind supplying an email address.
cc

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:50 PM EDT
"PJ, can we have a comment on why subpeona not discovery motion"

I did some quick research and found this: A discovery motion is when you've tried to get info and the other side won't produce it. That is the short answer. You see it a lot in criminal cases. There was one mentioned in the DOJ v MS case (maybe more, but that's one I quickly found). Or, in drunk driving cases, all the defendant gets is the police report. He or she wants more than that, so the individual will ask for other things, like when the radar gun was last serviced, whether any witnesses have a criminal record, and things like that. If not produced, then a discovery motion can be filed to get the info.

In a civil case, a nonparty, like a newspaper, for example, might file one, or if you've served the other side with interrogatories, which are questions for them to answer, and their answers, in your opinion, aren't forthcoming. See here. More info here and this pdf if you want the long answer.

It's a request for the judge to make them give you what you want. A subpoena is the normal way to let the other side know what you want in the normal course of discovery, and unless there are problems, the judge isn't involved.


pj

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:52 PM EDT
Shadowman99:

IBM's patent countersuit request for permanent injunction barring sales is for UnixWare and other non-Linux SCOldera products.

Were IBM distributing Caldera Linux there would be no laches, waivers or estoppel created for IBM by that act of distributing (because they're distributing a different product, NOT UnixWare).


Sanjeev

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 02:52 PM EDT
Those links don't work, so here's DOJ v MS: www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f8600/8684.htm

www.adr.af.mil/afadr/library/docs/eo12988.html

www.constitution.org/pro-se/lr-p1-5.htm

www.reverepublishing.com/California/CA_DUI_Sample.pdf


pj

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 03:08 PM EDT
This link will take you to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure:

http://www.l aw.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/overview.htm#chapter_v

Look under: V. DEPOSITIONS AND DISCOVERY

As you can see this material encompasses rules 26 - 37. A read through these rules first might save the beautiful and gracious Pamela J. some keyboard work.


gumout

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 03:09 PM EDT
If indeed, SCO does send out a few thousand invoices, and indeed, does pursue
legal action against one or more of the parties, is it possible that SCO is
opening itself up for a class action?
Monkey

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 03:38 PM EDT
Shadowman99: IBM is suing SCO over all of it's OS products. They have counterclaimed patent infringements involving Unixware and Open Unix, and violation of the GPL with Open Linux. That means that SCO should no longer be distributing any copyrighted code or works that IBM has released under a GPL license.In this regard, I don't think that SCO can ignore IBM's collaboration on things besides the kernel. To be on the safe side they ought to inquire about some of these things (after all they'd expect Linus to do that much, wouldn't they?): http://oss.software.ibm .com/linux/collaborations/

http://oss.software.ibm.com/li nux/patches/

I think that also might preclude the distribution of lots of things in Unixware, or any other product that uses a full install of Open Linux (sans kernel) with the "Linux Kernel Personality".


Harlan

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 04:08 PM EDT
IANAL but this is what I generally know about subpoenas.

Subpoena to Testify --- "Ad Testificandum"--- i.e. oral depositions and testimony in Court hearings.

Subpoena for Records --- "Duces Tecum" --- i.e. records, documents and tangible information.

Courts liberally issue blank subpoenas to the parties with the understanding that they should not be abused i.e. harassment.

NEVER ignore a subpoena, but if a person receiving a subpoena doesn't like it he can file a "Motion to Quash" with their facts on why the subpoena should not be enforced. The requesting party can then file a response "Motion to Enforce Compliance" with their reasons why the subpoena should be obeyed. The Court will then rule whether it is proper to enforce the subpoena or some part of it. And so it goes with the rulings on the "Motions for Discovery".


gumout

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 04:23 PM EDT
SCO evidence falls flat in Sydney
bob

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 04:26 PM EDT
Just random thought,

if Novell waived SCO's right to terminate IBM's SysV license, IBM could still be legally using SysV to check out SCO's claims.


Sanjeev

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 04:27 PM EDT
GandhiCon Three and the Antics of SCO
bob

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 04:30 PM EDT
pj,

Someone should check further into the 305,274 shares registered and sold on July, of which the majority was sold by the Canopy group or people associated with Vultus (a Canopy subsidiary at that point). I believe that this has the effect of allowing Canopy to sell SCO stock at the (inflated) $11 per share level to members of the public, while injecting Vultus assets (and perhaps some cash) into SCO. Maybe this is what IBM is investigating -- the sales at the inflated price.

You will find details in the SCO S-3 filing of 7/8/03 on the SEC's Edgar search engine - click www.sec.gov and find the "search for company filing's" button.

-Undisclosed person


Undisclosed

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:00 PM EDT
Can SCO send the invoices and use the estimated revenues to inflate their
profits? I seem to remember Enron/Worldcom doing something similar. style="height: 2px; width: 20%; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: auto;">joe

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:01 PM EDT
ftp://ftp.calde ra.com/pub/OpenLinux311/Workstation/SRPMS/
Dan M Nalven

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:04 PM EDT
From http://www.sco.com/scos ource/linuxlicensefaq.html

"If I am running SCO Linux or Caldera OpenLinux do I need to obtain a SCO IP License for Linux? Yes. SCO will distribute an IP License for Linux to all SCO Linux users. To receive this license, you must register your SCO Linux license on the website. If you already registered the SCO Linux license, you must update your registration to be eligible for the license. This special license is limited to the right to use SCO IP with SCO Linux and Caldera OpenLinux. It is not valid for any other distribution of Linux. Unlike the SCO IP license for a non-SCO Linux distribution, these licenses do not have to be registered after they are issued. The only registration required is the initial registration (or update) of the SCO Linux license."

There are 2 important points here. First if you have bought SCO / Caldera Linux you aren't being asked to pay again for the license. Quite what would constitute only using it with SCO / Caldera Linux isn't clear - maybe you have to use a SCO prebuilt kernel but then they run into all sorts of GPL problems.

Secondly, you normally have to register the license after you buy it. This is because they want to make sure a proper contract is formed with anyone who buys it agreeing to the license terms.

All in all I think they were forced to publicise the license program before they were ready and when they looked a bit closer they realised that the GPL caused them all sorts of problems with it and that is why they haven't sold anyone a license. Has anyone who has phoned about a license had their call returned?


Adam Baker

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:09 PM EDT
sorry about the previous post (my mouse button was stuck and came unstuck on the submit button).

my point being, with the ftp address, that sco(caldera) is still offering a linux distro, ostensibly to support its' current customers. it is only offered piecemeal by file, *.src.rpm, but the directory list is extensive. per the gpl, they are required to offer these sources for three years. could this be a reason?


Dan M Nalven

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:21 PM EDT
> Can SCO send the invoices and use the estimated revenues to inflate their profits?

I don't know, but presumably their auditors would have to say their accounting methods were okay.

The 10-Qs should tell us if they have a lot of revenue that they haven't yet collected. So if it happened on a big scale, somebody would presumably notice?

IANAL but BTW, one article I read suggested that: for patents - if I remember correct, laches defense, if successfully applied, might stop past damages, but they don't allow infringing behavior to continue. Link has been posted by somebody, maybe even me, before.


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:24 PM EDT
No press releases from SCO for ten days. Maybe they are silent because they are negotiating with IBM? They are going to have to do that at some point, I don't think they are crazy enough to go to trial.

It wouldn't surprise me if they have decided that there is no point in waiting longer to settle. The license plan was released almost a month ago, and we can be pretty sure it has been a total failure. I say that because if they were making any significant amount of money from it, McBride would be boasting about it every day (by my calculation, if just one percent of the server and desktops were licensed, SCO would get 49 million).

Also, the press has been turning against SCO lately. So maybe SCO has decided it is time to cut their losses and settle.


david l.

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:27 PM EDT
<< "If I am running SCO Linux or Caldera OpenLinux do I need to obtain a SCO IP License for Linux? Yes. SCO will distribute an IP License for Linux to all SCO Linux users >>

Surely that would constute an attempt to impose extra conditions after purchase and hence is totally unenforceable? After all, if the initial purchase and install did not require this license, how can SCO possibly now require a new license (even a free one)? Answer, they can't and anyone bought a Caldera Linux distro and now agrees to this new license (and its extra conditions) is a fool!


whoever

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:29 PM EDT
Chris Priest,

You say that everyone who gets invoices will keep them confidential. Maybe, but I bet, the way things go today, somebody will remove the identifying information and post it anonymously to the web (with a notice to Slashdot).

But the more important thing is that invoices will for sure provoke a class-action counter suit. Big corporations don't like to be pushed around. That is why I think it is a bluff and SCO won't actually send them.


david l.

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:34 PM EDT
Adam,

IANAL but I always found the idea that SCO would successfully be able to sue one of their customers for buying and use SCO's own Linux version, to be more that slightly ludicrous.

Let's imagine there really is something in SCO's Linux that infringes SCO's copyright.

Now the only reason that a customer can buy a SCO Linux, containing this infringing material - is because SCO themselves, offered it, marketed it, sold it, and distributed it. And remember SCO are supposed to be the experts.

The customer then gets its and uses it under the terms under which it was sold (GPL). The customer simply believes what SCO had told them, at the time that the customer bought.

If there's a fault here, I'd say that it seems to me, that the fault is with SCO for offering the infringing product to their customer (even if the fault is limited to failure to check what they are selling). The customer merely accepted SCO's offer, under SCO's then terms.

Now I know that SCO have said they're not going after their previous Linux customers, at least for money, (although they do seem to want to impose a new license)...

But the fact they even flet it necessary to say that, is just so bizarre.

What's next? Will the burger bar, announce that they won't sue me, for buying a 1/4 pound burger, which they later discovered was actually 5/16 pound?


quatermass - SCO delenda est

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:35 PM EDT
Hey, here is a thought. Some people think McBride really believes that that SCO code is in Linux because of the pattern-recognition software analysis that found a million lines of common code.

But I bet anything the outside experts (three separate teams, SCO says) who are running the automated search are all real smart techy types, and a lot of them are coders themselves, and so they know the claim that this proves the code is stolen are totally bogus. They know the matches don't mean anything.


david l.

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:43 PM EDT
I thought this quite revealing

http://www.i tnews.com.au/storycontent.cfm?ID=10&Art_ID=12831

Kieran O’Shaughnessy, managing director of SCO Group in Australia, said he could not answer any ‘technical’ or ‘legalistic’ questions about the examples of code.

‘But Linux is an unauthorised derivative of Unix and there is significant Unix code in Linux ... some 1,000,000 lines,’ he said.

And

He said Linux developers had been guilty of literal copying, obfuscation, and direct derivation of copyright Unix code but he was not in a position to offer any further evidence countering technical objections to the validity of the examples of allegedly misappropriated code SCO had produced. ‘The marketing guy always gets it,’ O’Shaughnessy said.

So basically, are we just supposed to accept SCO's claims even though their examples have been debunked, or at least disputed?

And we're supposed to feel sorry for the marketing guy, who makes these kind of claims?


quatermass - SCO delenda est

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:46 PM EDT
david, I wouldn't have thought you need pattern recognition if you basically just assert that everything IBM (and maybe other AT&T licensees) did, is automatically infringing.

I think this must be the basis for the million or millions of type claims.

AFAIK, some of the things that SCO think infringing, aren't even in the AT&T code base - example: JFS.


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:49 PM EDT
if i understand the gpl correctly if someone like sco took gpl code and
inserted into their code like sys5 would that mean sys5 is then required to be
gpl'd?
brenda banks

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:54 PM EDT
david l. stated: "No press releases from SCO for ten days."

Do you have any idea how hard it is for SCO to track what lies they have told already, that is the reason it's always a bad idea to lie

"Maybe they are silent because they are negotiating with IBM?"

SCO;"Can't we be friends?" IBM;"No"

"I don't think they are crazy enough to go to trial"

I do, SCO is dead set on stealing Linux or going out Enron style. To be ignored is not what they want, SCO wants to make sure they earn every penny Bill Gates gave them.

quatermass stated: "I don't know, but presumably their auditors would have to say their accounting methods were okay." Would that be Author Anderson?

I wonder if SCO will send a Linux invoice the German Courts? :)

nm


nm

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 05:56 PM EDT
This weekend I wrote a simple c program coupled with a bash shell script. I have a Celeron 1.2 GHZ with 512 MBYTES of ram. I obtained the old, old Unix 32v tree here: http://www.tuhs.org/archive_sites. html I compared 32v with the source tree for linux-2.4.21 that I'm running currently. Now I'm dumber than dog-poop and my Celeron is ancient hardware. In less than eight hours my program identified the offending code that SCO at Forum2003 claimed was infringed by Linux. What do you think real programmers with teraflop big iron and access to SysVr4 source code know about infringing code in Linux ?

Here's the offending code without whitespace from my program:

src1 module /root/prgm/mydiff/mydiff/lin/ate_utils.c src2 module /root/prgm/mydiff/mydiff/uni/malloc.c src2 src1 string

00009 00082 *Inamap,theaddressesareincreasingandthe 00010 00083 *lististerminatedbya0size. 00013 00084 *Algorithmisfirst-fit. 00016 00038 structmap*mp; 00018 00091 registerunsignedinta; 00019 00092 registerstructmap*bp; 00019 00128 registerstructmap*bp; 00021 00099 if(bp->m_size>=size){ 00022 00100 a=bp->m_addr; 00023 00101 bp->m_addr+=size; 00024 00102 if((bp->m_size-=size)==0){ 00027 00105 (bp-1)->m_addr=bp->m_addr; 00027 00148 (bp-1)->m_addr=bp->m_addr; 00030 00111 return(a); 00033 00118 return(0); 00042 00038 structmap*mp; 00043 00091 registerunsignedinta; 00045 00092 registerstructmap*bp; 00045 00128 registerstructmap*bp; 00046 00129 registerunsignedintt; 00053 00139 (bp-1)->m_size+=size; 00054 00143 if(a+size==bp->m_addr){ 00055 00145 (bp-1)->m_size+=bp->m_size; 00056 00146 while(bp->m_size){ 00058 00105 (bp-1)->m_addr=bp->m_addr; 00058 00148 (bp-1)->m_addr=bp->m_addr; 00059 00149 (bp-1)->m_size=bp->m_size; 00063 00155 if(a+size==bp->m_addr&&bp->m_size){ 00064 00156 bp->m_addr-=size; 00065 00157 bp->m_size+=size; 00068 00167 t=bp->m_addr; 00069 00168 bp->m_addr=a; 00071 00170 t=bp->m_size; 00072 00171 bp->m_size=size;


gumout

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 06:00 PM EDT
Dan M Nalven: SCO's position is remarkable. They seem to be saying that they can violate US TITLE 17 Copyrights and TITLE 35 Patents in order to continue supporting their customers. That's odd since the Open Linux source code allows anyone to obtain support somewhere else (quite legally).

Remember the only license they have to distribute IBM's IP is the GPL. They have violated it's most basic provisions. IBM has put them on notice with it's counterclaim 6, and asked for damages to be determined at trial.

Remember that SCO admits that IBM and Sequent own the RCU and NUMA copyrights and patents. They seem to feel that TITLE 17 section 301 pre-empts state law when it's applied to the terms of the GPL as if it were a contract. Why do they think paragraph 2.01 of their AT&T Software License Agreement isn't pre-empted? That is what their own trade secret and contract claims are based on. htt p://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/linux/papers/gpl.php

IBM has also counterclaimed that SCO's other OS products infringe on a number of IBM's patents. If I were to hazard a guess about why IBM subpoened Canopy, I would think it probably has something to do with the Asset Purchase Ageements with Novell and Canopy's creative flair for complicating financial deals unecessarily (who really owns exactly what?) SCO has made a number of claims about "owning Unix", "the contract rights", "the title", "the rights to enforce the patents", "the patents", and etc. IIRC someone here at Groklaw mentioned a loan to SCO from Canopy that was secured with these "mysterious Unix rights" as colateral. Obviously if IBM can prove that SCO has no standing because Novell really did waive their rights to terminate the AIX license.....


Harlan

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 06:05 PM EDT
nm - AA is not doing auditing for anyone AFAIK. Even if they were, and doing it for SCO, it would be a huge unsupported jump to suggest that meant anything improper.

I am thinking if they were to add these invoices to revenue, without collecting

- then it would show up in increased receivables in the following 10-Q.

- I'm not an accountant or auditor, but I'd be surprised if auditors were happy to add unsolicited invoices that will (probably) never be collected, straight into a revenue total. There are usually/often complex rules and procedures about revenue recognition... for example, for ongoing large projects, revenue often gets recognized in stages as the project progresses, not in one lump on the day the order arrives.

- If SCO were to do something funny with revenue recognition, the auditors would see it and probably raise it. This would probably mean restating revenues. And for a NASDAQ company, that could likely mean a shareholder lawsuit, and even possibly SEC investigation.

- I think SCO surely knows that, so it seems unlikely to me, that they would knowingly do anything funny with revenue recognition.


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 06:32 PM EDT
Brenda: Yes, legally if SCO (or anyone else) took a GPL'd piece of code, used it as the foundation for a derivative
work or otherwise included it in their own work and (here's the important part) distributed the modified version,
then yes, the distributed modified version must be licensed under the GPL. The theory is that, seeing as how you got
the code and the associated freedoms through the goodness of the coders, you must pass these freedoms on to the
recipients of the code as well.

Note that the important part is "distributed the modified version". One can modify a GPL'd program till Kingdom Come
and not license the modified version under GPL if the modified version is not distributed (for example, I could
download the GNOME desktop, modify it with custom behavior and graphics and use it strictly as an internal product
in my business and never have to license my changes under GPL; however, if I then decide to pass out the modified
version for others to use, at that point I have to GPL my changes).

Since the whole point of SCO producing SysV is to distribute the OS, then yes, if SCO were to incorporate any GPL'd
code in their SysV product and distribute it to customers, then they would have to GPL SysV. There in fact have been
some reported rumblings to the effect that exactly that has happened, that SCO has put some Linux code in their
SysV product, but AFAIK that has not been even formally put forth, much less substantiated.


Steve Martin

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 06:35 PM EDT
Gamout:

How many similar regions did you find? Would you mind posting what you found somewhere?


r.a.

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 06:36 PM EDT
someone was talking about ignorance being a more likely scenario and that is
the only think that really fits all the facts. as we know them
ibm has deep pockets but they over played being bought out cause they insulted
ibm
then gpl is invalid and all the other wild claims
it just fits so nicely with stupidity
brenda banks

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 06:53 PM EDT
ra:
Sorry I stopped my program after finding ate_utils.c / malloc.c. In it's
present
brute force form my program would require about 24 - 36 hours on my Celeron
150 MFLOP box to exhaust the 2.4.21 kernel source tree since there's about 3.48
million
raw lines to examine against the 32v source tree. Clever programming could
reduce the time
factor by probably 100 or more. One of Big Blue's super computers could do it in
seconds.
gumout

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 07:17 PM EDT
If they are ever sent, they will arrive in corporate America's accounts departments with a letter requesting confidentially. Receiving and even paying the invoice is not illegal, that is, not a whistleblowing activity, and financial activities (and even numbers of servers) are always confidential anyway, so how many accountants and their clerks are going to break their contracts of employment and let us see the paper?
Suppose a party with whom I do not have an existing business relationship sends me a 2 pieces of paper in the US Mail. One is marked "Invoice". The other contains some text telling me to keep the "Invoice" confidential.

Now exactly why would I be obliged to keep the "Invoice" confidential? I have no contract with the sender of the paper. There is no pre-existing agreement requiring me to do anything, or not do anything, with the first piece of paper. Particularly since it was sent to me unsolicited via US Mail, it is mine to do with as I please. Throw it away, keep it, give it away, publish it in the New York Times if I please. How would I be violating any "contract of employment"?


Cranky Observer

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 07:19 PM EDT
quatermass wrote: "1. If you talk (about Linux) publicly, it'll get you on the hitlist (although I'm not sure how they intend to figure out how much for)"

Hasn't stopped me from talking about Linux publicly. Actually, I e-mailed SCO and sort of dared them to send me an invoice, mentioning all of the Kernel 2.4 distros I had and use. Plus, I have all of the UnitedLinux source, so I am sure I am on SCOs list. Haven't seen an invoice yet. If I DO get an invoice, the first thing I will do is talk to my state's AG's office about it.


wild bill

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 07:25 PM EDT
"What's next? Will the burger bar, announce that they won't sue me, for buying a 1/4 pound burger, which they later discovered was actually 5/16 pound?" quatermass

Actually, they discovered that their secret sauce extends the average life expectancy by ten years. Since you are now living ten extra years due to their intellectual property, you owe them for all the money you would receive during this period when you would otherwise be deceased. :)


J.F.

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 08:25 PM EDT
After following the last few weeks events, and reading comments here and elsewhere, I think that the Hammer is starting to come down onto SCO, they know it, and they are desperately casting about for something to do next.

About the subpeona: IBM is playing this very, very carefully. Instead of rebutting SCO publically, or flailing about legally counterattacking SCO, IBM's lawyers have been carefully documenting the events, doing research, and are now attacking the affliction at it's source: Canopy Group.

All in all I have to say that at this point, things are looking very bad not just for SCO's execs, but for the Canopy Group all in all. IBM has a huge amount of experience at fighting this kind of battle, and it shows. SCO has placed a hand into what it thought was a dead hornets nest, only to discover a live rabid weasel inside.

I wonder when those execs at SCO are next planning to take a "vacation" and to which non-extradition country it will be :)

Thanks everyone for the comments. BTW, I came here from a link lower down on today's article from Slashdot; Tsu, you should post this to the COLA newsgroup also (sorry if you already did and I didn't notice, there's so much crap on there right now it's hard to find the interesting posts - time to create a new filter :)

See ya, McBride and Co. It'll be a pleasure to watch you go down in flames. Oh, BTW, Darl, Chris, etc...you lost another customer. We're switching away from SCO OpenServer at work in two weeks. Long, long overdue.

IBM has made up for their tactics in the 80s; apology accepted, IBM :)

With respect,

DarkHills


DarkHills

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:14 PM EDT
As found by bibdicap on yahoo.

It seems that SCO has found there second licencee.


fava

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:15 PM EDT
Oops, bindicap not bibicap.
fava

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 09:35 PM EDT
http://www.idg.com.sg/idgwww.nsf/unidlookup/8A82F436CD6D4CA4482 56D97000A5F6C?OpenDocument

"Stowell declined to reveal the identity of the new customer or say how many other customers SCO may have signed up"

Another secret customer. Oh boy.


quatermass - SCO delenda est

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, September 03 2003 @ 10:16 PM EDT
"I'm in awe of his fluent weasel-speak." Tsu Dho Nimh

Darl is right up there with The Sphinx, G.W.B., 99 out of 100 Lawyers, and last but not least, Satan himself. How someone can tell a blatant lie that is, technically (semi) truthful is beyond my grasp. I believe that (lack) is a good thing about me, I hope I never become that fluent in "weasel-speak".

Note: I did not mean this as any flame to Tsu Dho Nimh, just to Darl where it belongs!


nm

[ Reply to This | # ]

radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 12:36 AM EDT
"But Linux is an unauthorised derivative of Unix and there is significant Unix code in Linux ... some 1,000,000 lines,’ he said."

Again, look at the wording. "unauthorised derivative of Unix" - not SysV. SCO again try to conflate a casual use of "derivative" (based on) with the legal copyright meaning (containing copyrighted code from), knowing that an "unauthorised derivative" in the first sense is as illegal as an "unauthorised biography". And there is Unix code in Linux - the BSD-licenced code. Everyone knows that. (Not to mention SCO's definition of "Unix Code" as anything written ever by a Unix licensee.)


Dr Stupid

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 12:45 AM EDT
Cranky Observer, I can only speak for the UK situation but if you have no existing contractual relationship with SCO then you owe them no legal duty of confidentiality. They can request confidentiality, but the request ranks alongside the similar request made in the Nigerian scam emails.

To clarify: If you contacted SCO and *asked* for a quote, and they said "we'll send you a quote, but it's confidential" and you agreed, then that could create a duty of confidentiality. But an unsolicited invoice arrives without any prior agreement on your part.

P.S. When your marketing people say they'd sold "at least one" of something, we all know what that means. ;) If people were queueing up to buy SCO's licences they wouldn't bother even talking about invoices.


Dr Stupid

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 02:02 AM EDT
From lamlaw.com this is in Mettler's usual over-the-top language but, as often, a basically valid point.

"The most interesting question is why Eolas Technologies does not now send $25 invoices to hundreds of millions of Microsoft customers now that a patent violation has been proven for Internet Explorer. I mean if you read some of the silly commentary out there in regard to SCO, as soon as SCO wins their case, Linux customers have to pay up, right? Is that not what some are saying? Hog wash.

"Certainly if SCO can claim that Linux customers owe them money (or even send out invoices) to get a clean license when no such IP claims have been proven in court, then Eolas Technology should be able to send out some invoices of their own, right?

"Well. Maybe someone should ask them about that. I think that is about 5 billion dollars in receivables. And, they even have a patent judgment, right?

"As with the SCO case, it does not work that way. And, for good reason.

"Whether it is patent, copyright, trade secret or contract law, innocent consumers are not liable for possible or even proven IP violations. Unless, that is, they themselves have violated the rights. But, when SCO sent out 1,500 letters to Linux customers they clearly did not investigate in order to determine is any one of them much less all of them had engaged in any IP violations.

"The other reason is that the judgment now reached against Microsoft compensates Eolas for their rights. Or, if appealed, it goes away. Either way customers should not be approached unless extortion is the objective as is obviously the case with SCO.

"It is extortion and the disruption of the Linux market that drives SCO. Protection of IP rights or even contract rights is not important to SCO at all. Those rights can be protected without even mentioning Linux customers."


r.a.

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 02:32 AM EDT
J.F., In reality, the secret sauce does extend the life expectancy, but only if you're a burger.

It is fatal to ordinary humans, but the management have placed a gag order on the media by vice of the DMCA.

Share and enjoy! ;)


Wesley Parish

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 04:32 AM EDT
DarkHills wrote: "SCO has placed a hand into what it thought was a dead hornets nest, only to discover a live rabid weasel inside. "

Nope- it was a live rabid penguin <G>.


wild bill

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 08:42 AM EDT
Hey Gumout, would it be possible to post your code (a binary would be nice too)
and the appropriate links to SCO's older stuff someplace so those with an
interest can play around with the different code bases?
Alex Roston

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 04:27 PM EDT
Alex: I'm working on a new bash shell script using only well known unix utilities I'll post it if it eventually works right. A person more familiar with "regex" regular expressions could whip up a suitable progam in short order. The guys that wrote awk, sed, tr, grep, find were very sharp programmers and the utilities should run as fast as any custom c binary. Perl might be the most suitable of all but I don't speak much perl.

Ultimate success may depend upon strategy:

1)Which modules in the distribution are relevent i.e. could possibly infringe old unix ?

2)Blank lines and white space should be probably be filtered out.

3)Probably most pre-processor directives i.e. #include<> #ifdef #define should be filtered out.

4)The beginning and end of fuctions often have a line with a single "{" or "}" should they be filtered out ?

A well planned strategy could reduce the text comparisons required by a large factor. I'm googling to find any hints from the gurus. After pre-processing a code module might look like this:

/* *linux/kernel/info.c * *Copyright(C)1992DarrenSenn */ /*Thisimplementsthesysinfo()systemcall*/ asmlinkagelongsys_sysinfo(structsysinfo*info) structsysinfoval; memset((char*)&val,0,sizeof(structsysinfo)); cli(); val.uptime=jiffies/HZ; val.loads[0]=avenrun[0]<<(SI_LOAD_SHIFT-FSHIFT); val.loads[1]=avenrun[1]<<(SI_LOAD_SHIFT-FSHIFT); val.loads[2]=avenrun[2]<<(SI_LOAD_SHIFT-FSHIFT); val.procs=nr_threads-1; sti(); si_meminfo(&val); si_swapinfo(&val); unsignedlongmem_total,sav_total; unsignedintmem_unit,bitcount; /*Ifthesumofalltheavailablememory(i.e.ram+swap) *islessthancanbestoredina32bitunsignedlongthen *wecanbebinarycompatiblewith2.2.xkernels.Ifnot, *well,inthatcase2.2.xwasbrokenanyways... * *-ErikAndersen*/ mem_total=val.totalram+val.totalswap; if(mem_total<val.totalram||mem_total1){ bitcount++; mem_unit>>=1; sav_total=mem_total; mem_total<<=1; if(mem_total<sav_total) gotoout; /*Ifmem_totaldidnotoverflow,multiplyallmemoryvaluesby *val.mem_unitandsetitto1.Thisleavesthingscompatible *with2.2.x,andalsoretainscompatibilitywithearlier2.4.x *kernels...*/ val.mem_unit=1; val.totalram<<=bitcount; val.freeram<<=bitcount; val.sharedram<<=bitcount; val.bufferram<<=bitcount; val.totalswap<<=bitcount; val.freeswap<<=bitcount; val.totalhigh<<=bitcount; val.freehigh<<=bitcount; out: if(copy_to_user(info,&val,sizeof(structsysinfo))) return-EFAULT; return0;


gumout

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 04 2003 @ 08:42 PM EDT
WildBill:

"Nope- it was a live rabid penguin <G>."

LOL, thanks. We penguins will show them what it means to be serious about what we believe in...

DH


DarkHills

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 05 2003 @ 03:19 AM EDT
gumout wrote: "Ultimate success may depend upon strategy: 1)Which modules in the distribution are relevent i.e. could possibly infringe old unix ? 2)Blank lines and white space should be probably be filtered out. 3)Probably most pre-processor directives i.e. #include<> #ifdef #define should be filtered out. 4)The beginning and end of fuctions often have a line with a single "{" or "}" should they be filtered out ?

A well planned strategy could reduce the text comparisons required by a large factor. I'm googling to find any hints from the gurus. After pre-processing a code module might look like this: "

I would use a little bit different strategy, and Perl, not c is probably the better choice. Anyways, here it is. 1. Forget about sorting out relevant modules- check them all. 2. Compare the Unix source against Linux- but only looking for matches in comments. If a programmer is going to steal the code, he'll probably steal the comments too, because programmers hate to take the time to write good comments. Flag any occurences so they can be printed out and examined. If you wanted, compare the function the comment is in and look for a match in the Linux code. 3. Compare functions, or more precisely, definitions/prototypes. You could get creative in the parsing here- look for identical matches first, then parse and ignore the names and compare (essentially, even if the function has a different name but uses the same arguments it might be a copy). Flag any finds, then check for identical code, probably by comparing the first 20 or so lines of the functions. Flag any finds so you can print the list and compare by hand.

An approach like this would save alot of processing time and has a high probability of finding stolen code. Comparing functions makes sense- I can't imagine the utility of stealing just small bits and pieces of a function- why not grab it all.

Anyways, tell me what you think of this approach.


wild bill

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radiocomment
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 05 2003 @ 05:41 AM EDT
Oh, I meant to say to compare comments first, then compare function
prototypes/definitions....also, if a function has already been scanned while
examining comments, it doesn't need scanned again. I re-read what I wrote and
that was a little vague.
wild bill

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