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About Hans Bayer - Updated 2Xs
Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 02:59 AM EDT

Groklaw's reporters who attended the SCO bankruptcy hearing on the 27th reported that SCO portrayed Hans Bayer as not an officer of the company and not authorized to speak for SCO about the unXis deal. As a result, some emails by Bayer about the proposed sale to unXis were stricken from the record. I'll show you in a minute why SCO was so eager to have the emails stricken. They are very damaging. CEO Darl McBride said he'd even reprimanded Bayer for some emails he was not authorized to send. At one point, Cravath attorney David Marriott, representing IBM, pulled out his Blackberry and showed McBride the SCO website, listing Bayer as VP. But SCO's portrayal was that the web site was mistaken. When Steve Norris later testified, however, when he was asked who was the lead negotiator for SCO in the unXis deal, he said it was Hans Bayer. Norris had not been in the courtroom during McBride's testimony.

Who was correct? You will find Hans Bayer listed as an officer of SCO Group in the Walker Research Corporate Directory 2007. Right here [PDF], on page 25, where he's listed as a VP. That matches the web site. Here's a SCO press release, which includes a quotation from Hans Bayer, when SCO announced a deal with Sberbank in Russia, as well as a quote from Darl McBride, which tells me they both had to sign off on the press release:

"We are pleased that one of the largest banks in the world has decided to deploy SCO Open Server Release 6 to their branch offices. The increased performance that Open Server 6 brings together with its high compatibility has made this the best choice for modernizing the existing IT branch infrastructure," said Hans Bayer, vice president, worldwide sales for The SCO Group.
So, he wasn't just the head of the German subsidiary. He was also VP of Worldwide Sales for SCO Group. "We are pleased," he said, speaking for SCO.

Here's a screenshot from the Walker directory.

Here's how he's listed on the SCO web site page of executives and officers:

And here's a screenshot of the Sberbank press release:

SCOfolk are a trip and a half. Bayer's bio is still up on the website too:

Hans Bayer – Vice President Worldwide Sales

As Vice President of Worldwide Sales, Hans Bayer is responsible for overseeing all aspects of direct and channel sales of the company's UNIX and mobile products.

Bayer joined The Santa Cruz Operation in July 1992 as an Account Manager for Major Account Sales in Central Europe and has since then held various management positions within the company such as Managing Director and Country Manager Central Europe as well as Sales Manager for Corporate Sales and Marketing in Central Europe. After the acquisition by Caldera Inc. in June 2001 he was the Managing Director of the Caldera Development Center in Erlangen, Germany, until 2002.

Previous to working with The Santa Cruz Operation, Bayer worked at Digital Equipment Corp. as a Key Account Manager from 1989 until 1992. Prior to that he was a Product Manager at Wild Leitz from 1984 until 1989.

I remember Mr. Bayer as being prominent in the SCO story since at least 2003.

[Update: I see from this newsletter [PDF], "Unifying Unix and Linux for Business," that he was country manager for SCO Germany even back in 2001.]

It was he who announced that SCO Germany had resigned from a Linux group there, and this article in ComputerWorld identified him as "Hans Bayer, country manager and managing director at SCO Group GmbH" when quoting from the statement he'd released. When Tarent.de went to court against SCO in Germany, which resulted in a preliminary injunction against the company in 2003, Bayer was listed as the Managing Director in our translation of the legal document. He was the CEO, as we might say. If you read the legal document [PDF] from the case, it calls him the Geschäftsführer.

You don't call someone "führer" in Germany if you mean an underling, a mere employee, some "marketing guy", as McBride portrayed him.

If SCO didn't pay the fine, it was Hans Bayer who was threatened with jail it was reported:

Die SCO Group muss die 10.000 Euro jetzt an die Staatskasse zahlen, ansonsten droht Geschäftsführer Hans Bayer eine Ordnungshaft von 10 Tagen.
I think we'd call that authorized to represent the company. Later, he was replaced by Michael Olson as the Geschäftsführer, and then Jean Acheson, etc., in the skinnying down of employees, but he's no underling. Or at least, there's never been any such indication until the trial testimony.

Here's the part from our report by MikeD on that testimony about Bayer, for your comparison pleasure:

Marriott: Who were the primary negotiators for SCO?

McBride: Hunsaker, Tibbetts, Nielsen.

[MikeD Note - Here is where Mr. Marriott started reading emails from Hans Bayer. To summarize, Hans said that the mobility products being retained by SCO have no value to SCO; that Darl was holding onto a "weird dream" regarding the mobile apps; that Darl is spending millions of dollars on a product that nobody wants or needs; that the mobile apps and litigation is Darl's dream of hitting the jackpot; that employees are fed up with Darl and the litigation; that there only real product was Unix.

These were all emails from Hans. I believe they were written to Steve Norris. Mr. Marriott was selectively reading lines from the emails during questioning.

Mr. Marriott was so rapid-fire, I could not keep up. Summarizing, there was questioning of Darl about who Hans Bayer was and his position. Hans' title is VP of International Operations and Mobile Applications. There was much back and forth on this point. Mr. Marriott pointed out his title, which Darl disputed. Mr. Marriott pulled up the SCO Germany website on a Blackberry and handed it to Darl and asked him if it showed Hans as a VP - it did. Darl downplayed Hans position and authority. At this point, this line a questioning looked very damaging to Darl and SCO.

Mr. Spector had a continuing objection to this whole line of questioning. The emails made it sound like Hans was a key negotiator. Darl insisted he was just a marketing guy or something to that effect. To tie things together, Mr. Norris, who was not in the room, later said that Hans was one of the primary negotiators....

Spector: Who is Hans Bayer?

McBride: Sales guy in SCO Germany.

Spector: Is he an officer or Board member?

McBride: No.

Spector: Is he authorized to speak on behalf of SCO?

McBride: No.

Spector: Was he reprimanded for his comments in the emails?

McBride: Yes.

Spector: Who reprimanded him?

McBride: I did.

Spector: What was his reaction?

McBride: You'll have to ask him. [laughter in courtroom]

Mr. Spector tells Judge Hans feels Unix is the SCO product and is not qualified to speak on behalf of SCO. Hans does not know the whole story.

Mr. Spector asks Judge to strike all testimony about the Hans Bayer emails as hearsay. Arguments ensue. Judge speaks about speculation and role of Hans.

Judge agrees with SCO and strikes all testimony regarding the Hans Bayer emails.

Now you know why witnesses are sent out of the courtroom until it's their turn to take the stand. McBride's testimony was contradicted by Norris, who had not heard what McBride had said, because Norris had been waiting in another room.

The emails were stricken from the record, after the judge apparently accepted SCO's story that Bayer was not an officer and not authorized to speak, according to our reporters, and accepted that this made the emails hearsay, I gather. I think he made a mistake. SCO's attorney is reported to have said in his summation that listing Bayer as a VP on the website was a "simple mistake," speaking of mistakes. If so, it's been a mistake picked up by the world, including by SCO PR, since at least 2007. Perhaps the lawyer questioning SCO's McBride should have asked, "When did Mr. Bayer stop being an officer?"

[Update 2: There was another German litigation, settled on the terms in this agreement [PDF] between SCO Group Germany and Univention in 2004, whereby SCO agreed not to say certain things any more in that country. It's in German, of course, but you can still see Johannes Bayer, his full name, listed as the head of SCO Germany, Geschäftsführer, and Groklaw did a translation of the agreement's terms at the time. The point is that he wasn't just "some sales guy."]

Here is the press release about Sberbank in full, for historians, who, unlike Groklaw, may not have kept every scrap of evidence since 2003:

*******************

Sberbank (Savings Bank Of The Russian Federation) Chooses SCO's OpenServer 6 to Upgrade Thousands of Servers

Business Console, a SCO Premier Partner, Wins Bid to Begin Upgrades to Openserver 6 at Thousands of Branch Bank Offices Over 24 Months

LINDON, Utah, Aug. 30 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The SCO Group, Inc. ("SCO") (Nasdaq: SCOX), a leading provider of UNIX(R) software technology and mobile services, today announced that Business Console, a SCO Premier Partner, has been selected by Sberbank (Savings Bank of the Russian Federation) to upgrade more than three thousand branch offices to SCO's OpenServer 6 UNIX operating system. It is expected that the rollout upgrade will expand beyond the initial three thousand branch offices.

"Business Console is proud that we have been chosen as a long-term supplier of SCO software by Sberbank. It is a great conclusion to a project that started more than two years ago when SCO OpenServer 6 was released and presented by SCO to its partners and customers in Russia including Sberbank. OpenServer 6 advantages over OpenServer 5 are three-fold: it roughly doubles the performance of real-life bank applications on the same hardware, it's well-supported by leading server manufacturers and it saves money due to its more attractive pricing. Another important issue for a customer like Sberbank with its huge installation base is smooth migration," said Anatoly Belychook, president of Business Console. "As a SCO Premier Partner, we enjoy tight cooperation with the SCO team which is the key to prompt resolution of any customer issues. Solid local competence plus best in the industry online support services makes a customer confident about SCO as a platform of choice for backbone business applications," said Belychook.

Sberbank (Savings Bank of the Russian Federation) is the leader of the Russian banking industry, accounting for over a quarter of national banking assets and remains the largest bank in Russia and Central and Eastern Europe in terms of Tier I capital and assets.

"We are pleased that one of the largest banks in the world has decided to deploy SCO Open Server Release 6 to their branch offices. The increased performance that Open Server 6 brings together with its high compatibility has made this the best choice for modernizing the existing IT branch infrastructure," said Hans Bayer, vice president, worldwide sales for The SCO Group.

"SCO OpenServer is known for reliably running small-to-medium businesses and branch offices of companies throughout the world," said Darl McBride, president and CEO, The SCO Group. "We are pleased that Sberbank has chosen SCO OpenServer 6 to upgrade their branch offices throughout the country. OpenServer 6 will provide them with unparalleled reliability and security for their customers."

Availability and Pricing

For more information on SCO OpenServer 6, visit the product information pages on SCO's Web site at http://www.sco.com/products/openserver6/ or call 1-800-726-6561 in North America or +44 (0)1707 226014 outside the U.S.

About SCO

The SCO Group (Nasdaq: SCOX) is a leading provider of UNIX software technology and mobile services. SCO offers UnixWare for enterprise applications and SCO OpenServer for small to medium businesses. The SCO Mobile product line focuses on creating mobile platforms, services and solutions for businesses and enhances the productivity of mobile workers. SCO's highly innovative and reliable solutions help customers grow their businesses everyday, especially into the emerging mobile market. SCO owns the core UNIX operating system, originally developed by AT&T/Bell Labs and is the exclusive licensor to Unix-based system software providers. Headquartered in Lindon, Utah, SCO has a worldwide network of thousands of resellers and developers. SCO Global Services provides reliable localized support and services to partners and customers. For more information on SCO products and services, visit http://www.sco.com.

SCO and the associated logos are trademarks or registered trademarks of The SCO Group, Inc. in the U.S. and other countries. UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group.

SOURCE SCO Group, Inc.


  


About Hans Bayer - Updated 2Xs | 542 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections
Authored by: bprice on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:07 AM EDT
As if needed.

---
--Bill. NAL: question the answers, especially mine.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Off Topic
Authored by: bprice on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:08 AM EDT
Clickies are appreciated, on-topic comments are not.

---
--Bill. NAL: question the answers, especially mine.

[ Reply to This | # ]

News Picks Comments
Authored by: bprice on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:09 AM EDT
Use the News Pick title as your comment's title, to give us a clue...

---
--Bill. NAL: question the answers, especially mine.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: jvillain on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:11 AM EDT
Is there any thing to indicate that the emails were brought back into testimony
after McBride was later contradicted? At some point you would think that some
one would stop taking the word of the SCO hucksters as gospel.

[ Reply to This | # ]

http://www.sco.com/company/execs/hbayer.html
Authored by: Arthur Marsh on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:19 AM EDT

Still at http://www.sco.com/company/e xecs/hbayer.html when I just checked:

Hans Bayer – Vice President Worldwide Sales

As Vice President of Worldwide Sales, Hans Bayer is responsible for overseeing all aspects of direct and channel sales of the company's UNIX and mobile products. .

Bayer joined The Santa Cruz Operation in July 1992 as an Account Manager for Major Account Sales in Central Europe and has since then held various management positions within the company such as Managing Director and Country Manager Central Europe as well as Sales Manager for Corporate Sales and Marketing in Central Europe. After the acquisition by Caldera Inc. in June 2001 he was the Managing Director of the Caldera Development Center in Erlangen, Germany, until 2002.

Previous to working with The Santa Cruz Operation, Bayer worked at Digital Equipment Corp. as a Key Account Manager from 1989 until 1992. Prior to that he was a Product Manager at Wild Leitz from 1984 until 1989.

---
http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix.html

[ Reply to This | # ]

Wassup with these guys?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:19 AM EDT
> At one point, Cravath attorney David Marriott, representing IBM,
> pulled out his Blackberry and showed McBride the SCO website,
> listing Bayer as VP. But SCO's portrayal was that the web site was
mistaken.

So, McBride lied to the court, or,
as CEO of an IT company he demonstrated his incompetence
by allowing his company website to display out of date, "wrong"
information to the world.

Either way, Chapter 7 would be a merciful release...

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: BobDowling on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:33 AM EDT

So the judge struck out some pertinent information based on McBride's testimony that was later contradicted by Norris' both under oath implying perjury on one part or the other. So what?

What are you going to do? Shoot him? This judge is no stickler for the rules.

We'll have to wait for the transcripts to see what's involved in this section of notes:

Mr. Spector asks Judge to strike all testimony about the Hans Beyer emails as hearsay. Arguments ensue. Judge speaks about speculation and role of Hans.

But I suspect that IBM/Novell didn't have documentary evidence to hand because they weren't ready for such bare-faced cheek. Note also that Spector spoke in the present tense: "is Bayer a...". He was replaced, after all. So, was he at the time of the emails? There's a difference between a web site that's simply "wrong" - though it happens - and a web site that's out of date - which happens all the time.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Still on the SCO web site..
Authored by: Arthur Marsh on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 03:36 AM EDT

On http://www.sco.com/company/profile.html

"SCO owns all rights and ownership of the core UNIX operating system source code originally developed by AT&T/Bell Labs.. "

---
http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix.html

[ Reply to This | # ]

I sure wish I had millions of someone else's dollars to play with.
Authored by: kawabago on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:13 AM EDT
I sure wish I had millions of someone else's dollars to play with. Why isn't
Darl building a perpetual motion machine so he can solve the energy crisis too?!

[ Reply to This | # ]

"You don't call someone "führer" in Germany"
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:16 AM EDT
> You don't call someone "führer" in Germany if you mean an
> underling, a mere employee, some "marketing guy", as
> McBride portrayed him.

You do, but you are right in case of the Geschäftsführer.

But a Baggerführer is just an excavator operator. In fact, the word is often
used when it comes to operating machinery (Maschinenführer, Kranführer, Führer
eines KFZ). And there it just means "operator".

A tour guide is another kind of "Führer" - a Reiseführer. A
Schriftführer ist just a clerk. A Schichtführer is just a shift foreman. A
Brigadeführer was a foreman in the GDR (aka East Germany)

[ Reply to This | # ]

unXis.de
Authored by: mattflaschen on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:22 AM EDT
I saw an article on heise online, which reminds us (previously noted in Guess Who Owns unXis.de?) that Hans Bayer registered the unxis.de domain name.

That alone severely mitigates against his being a minor flunky with no connection to the deal.

[ Reply to This | # ]

The good thing about the Hans Bayer event
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:25 AM EDT
Let me dream a little bit.

Let's assume for a moment that Hans Bayer was indeed reprimanded, and this
wasn't just a staged SCO show.

Reprimanding could make the guy angry and rethink his position. A good way to
handle such a situation is to talk. I would like to encourage Mr. Bayer to talk,
of course withing the scope of his legal obligations.

Mr. Bayer, is there something you want to come clean about? Can you give use the
real players behind the saga? You find PJ's mail address in the column on the
left.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:56 AM EDT
Steve Norris has said that he sees a future for SCO Unix products in certain
geographies (mainly outside the US). As Hand Bayer is or was VP of international
sales, it would be reasonable to assume he will be a key staff member of Unixs
should the sale go ahead. He may well have written to Norris n his role as
"future employee" rather than "SCO representative".

[ Reply to This | # ]

The australians have a phrase for it
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 05:19 AM EDT
Bring back the BIFF.**

Looks like Mr Marriott did just that!


** Loosely, an unruly altercation between players of the fine upstanding game of
(Rugby) League

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: Just_Bri_Thanks on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 06:10 AM EDT
They should have just obtained the man's business card.

Also something they could have done is called the switchboard at the office
where Mr. Bayer works and asked them for his title.

---
Bri. Just Bri. Thank you.
(With a long i sound.)
Without qualification, certification,
exception, or (hopefully) bias.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: AMackenzie on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 06:36 AM EDT
Yes, poor Hans Bayer.

The guy's been at SCO since ?1992, a decade before Don Quixote joined up. He's
stayed with the company despite what was being done with it.

It's reasonable to assume that he's a capable man, with integrity and, perhaps,
an excess of loyalty. It's also reasonable to suppose that he regards McBride
with a loathing and contempt unmatched by anybody in Groklaw.

Hans Bayer willl be one of the blameless people whose career will suffer
grievously from the shenanigans in the USA. Let's not forget them.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • About Hans Bayer - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 09:56 AM EDT
And The Previous VP Of Worldwide Sales Was ...
Authored by: sk43 on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 07:21 AM EDT
Jeff Hunsaker. From his bio:
http://www.sco.com/company/execs/jhunsaker.html

"From August 2005 to April 2006 he served as the Senior Vice President of
Worldwide Sales."

Now his title included the word "Senior" - significant?

In any case, in 2006 he became head of the Mobile business before moving in as
head of SCO Operations in 2007.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 07:23 AM EDT
"Here's how he's listed on the SCO web site page of executives and
officers:"

Page has already been removed.

That was quick.

Hope PJ has a snapshot

[ Reply to This | # ]

Gregory Blepp connection
Authored by: _Arthur on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 07:47 AM EDT
The same thing happened to Gregory Blepp, the man with the heavy suitcase.

Bleep had been identified as the VP of SCO-Germany, but, when SCO was
asked questions about Blepp, SCO explained away that Blepp was
"only a consultant", so he wasn't a VP.

I guess being a VP is an honorary title, at SCO.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: Stumbles on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 07:54 AM EDT
I think McBride is lying out his teeth regarding the status of Mr. Bayer. Did I
not just read in the above he was on the chopping block in a legal proceeding?
How can a person face such a thing, given the circumstances he was being held
accountable for regarding SCO actions in Germany? Sounds like to me he WAS a
duly christened executive/officer FOR SCO. Sounds really fishy to me on McBrides
part... but then I guess a Vice President of something in a company doesn't
always mean that person is an executive or officer.

---
You can tuna piano but you can't tune a fish.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 08:19 AM EDT
"Geschäftsführer" of a GmbH means "conductor of business".
He is the person who leads the operations of the commercial entity for the
equity owners and is personally legally responsible ("haftbar"). He is
the person registered notarially in the company register. Depending on the
statutes there can be one or more Geschäftsführer but the normal situation is
that he is in charge. If there are more than this needs to be reflected in the
statutes.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Could Hans be BIFF?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 08:40 AM EDT
Is it possible?

[ Reply to This | # ]

So Darl lied in court...
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 08:42 AM EDT
I make that statement based on everything listed above. The only possible ways
my statement is wrong is if Bayer was recently demoted and SCO said nothing
about it or Darl is truly that incompetent (and I hope that's not the case).

Having said all that, where's the perjury charge (or at least court issued
reprimand for lying)? Fake deals, misleading statements to the court, fraud,
and outright lies have all happened in this trial, and the only thing done has
been to strike from the record evidence that is damaging to the very group
committing these abuses.

Yes, there's a glimmer of hope that there might finally be some positive
movement in the case, but all it's showing me so far is that lawyers can turn
the entire system into a mockery for years before there's any resolution.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Wait... - Authored by: mtew on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 10:37 AM EDT
    • Wait... - Authored by: Tyro on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 02:05 PM EDT
When does lying become perjury?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 08:53 AM EDT
How can you tell when Darl is lying? His lips move.

When is this lying going to net him fraud or perjury charges?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Why isn't Darl guilty of perjury?
Authored by: tedavids on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 08:59 AM EDT
Just wondering, It seems to me that this would indicate that Darl lied under
oath, why is there no talk of perjury?

Do I mis-understand what it is?

Tom

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Side Issue
Authored by: RFD on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 09:21 AM EDT
The Hans Bayer emails are only marginally relevant to the motions before the
court. I don't think that Judge Gross will let this side issue distract him
from the decision he must make.

The marathon hearing almost certainly changed Judge Gross' overall view of SCO
and SCO management--and not for the better. Mr. Spector's strategy seemed to be
to paint IBM and Novell as the "bad guys" trying destroy SCO, and SCO
management valiantly trying to save it. I don't think he succeeded.

Mr. Spector had Mr. McBride explain in excruciating detail his many attempts to
find a buyer and put a deal together. This seems to me to have been a risky
strategy--it also highlighted his may failures. I don't know how Judge Gross
saw it. The emails--even though not admitted--tended to support the idea that
perhaps Mr. McBride is the problem.

Mr. Spector tended to drone on and on without getting to the point, perhaps
because he didn't have one to get to. I don't know if the idea was to bore
Judge Gross to death or not. Judge Gross gently, but firmly, cut Mr. Spector
off three times for taking too much time--once during his argument-in-chief and
twice during closing arguments. I don't think Mr. Spector made a good
impression on Judge Gross.

A judges overall impression of the parties affects how he hears the evidence and
I think SCO lost a lot of ground in that respect. If Judge Gross decides to
appoint a trustee, the hearing gave him all the support he needs.

---
Eschew obfuscation assiduously.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer
Authored by: Guil Rarey on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 09:48 AM EDT
McBride is technically, legally correct, and not really in a hair-splitting
fashion when testifying in court.

From SCO's 10-K, directors of the corporations are listed as:

Name
Ralph J. Yarro III
R. Duff Thompson
Darcy G. Mott
Darl C. McBride
Daniel W. Campbell
Omar T. Leeman
J. Kent Millington

Officers are listed as
McBride, CEO
Nielsen, CFO
Hunsaker, COO
Tibbits, Counsel

So Beyer is NOT listed as an officer. Clearly, with a title like VP of
Worldwide Sales, there are many respects in which he can be expected to speak
for SCO, and his word should be good to bind SCO, as their agent.

However, there is a difference between being an agent, even a very senior and
trusted one, like a senior vp, and an officer of a corporation. I'm sure more
learned *cough*actual lawyers*cough* can enlighten us on the distinctions.

At any rate, no, it was NOT unfair or out of bounds to state that Beyer does not
speak for SCO and that his opinions are just his opinions.

---
If the only way you can value something is with money, you have no idea what
it's worth. If you try to make money by making money, you won't. You might con
so

[ Reply to This | # ]

Another Oops?
Authored by: amster69 on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 11:31 AM EDT
I just noticed from the Walker directory screen shot above, the first line of
the SCO Business summary:-

"Business: The group's principal activity is to provide reliable cost
effective Linux ...."

Ya just couldn't make it up, could ya?

Bob

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • +1 - n/t - Authored by: Tufty on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 02:53 PM EDT
Reconciling Statement A with Statement B
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 12:19 PM EDT
Statement(s) A:
Mr. Beyer was (is(?)) the big enchilada for SCO in Germany.

Mr. Norris stated under oath that Mr Beyer was his primay contact within SCO.
_________
Statement B:
Mr. McBride states in meaning if not explicit words, that Mr Beyer is a flunky,
not knowing anything about 'The Dezl'.
---------
Issue:
Has someone made a bo-bo here?

========
Answer: Probably not. At least for perjury purposes.

Mr. Beyer appears to be one of the UNIX people. He was with Santa Cruz, he
worked the UNIX business long before Caldera/NewSCO. Mr Beyer may actually know
enough of the inards of what he sells to know the difference between UNIX and
(gasp) LINUX!

Mr. McBride apparently does not value the UNIX business itself highly. There
are some indications that Mr. McBride does not have a good grasp of the
technology in question, nor does he seem to care about 'technical' facts. Mr.
McBride is a metadealer, not interested in the details of anything but 'The
Deal' itself.

Thus, from Mr. McBride's point of view, anyone not in the 'Dealing' scene is one
of those technical weenies, of no real account, no matter what nominal or
official status.

On the other hand, if Mr. Norris is actually interested in the UNIX business as
a non-litigation business, then Mr. Beyer would be a primary source of
information.

QED
JG

PS: I have to go revive my keyboard now; it appears to be in a state of shock.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Führer terminology
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 12:44 PM EDT
Actually, the German term for "driver license" is
"Führerschein", which would translate to "Führer license".
The general meaning as with Geschäftsführer is someone who runs or guides
something. The Geschäftsführer runs the business (company, Geschäft).

[ Reply to This | # ]

VP Title Does Not Equal Authority
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 01:28 PM EDT
It is not uncommon for a person with the title of "VP" to not have the
authority to speak to the press or other entities. It may be that Bayer knew
Norris from some of the meetings that may have taken place but not had the
authority to speak on behalf of the position the company took on issues with
Norris.

It is likely he sent an e-mail to Norris to give his opinion, much to the
chagrin of McBride. I'm guessing they have a frosty relationship right now.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer - Updated 2Xs
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 01:58 PM EDT
SOMEONE PLEASE TELL THE BK JUDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Forget Hans Bayer - what about LNS?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 02:14 PM EDT
Remember, LNS are those guys who bought Microsofts claim against SCO and now want to buy SCO for $6 million.

We also found out that the LNS office is two doors down from Charles Hale's.

Darl mentions Charles Hale when asked about the York deal:

Lewis: What were the problems closing the York deal?
McBride: Charlie Hale was OK. Hard negotiators. They kept asking for more.
And Mr Spector says this about LNS:
Judge: You may make one more point and you are done.
Mr. Spector: But I have several more ....
Judge: Pick one. You may make one final point.
Mr. Spector: We chose not to consider deal from LNS because we don't trust them.
So can someone explain to me how this all fits together?
/Andreas

[ Reply to This | # ]

LNS Likely Front Company for Novell/IBM
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:19 PM EDT
It would have to make sense that if LNS is coming in and trying to make the same
deal as Norris, for a bit more money, but only on the condition that it drop all
lawsuits that it is a front company with IBM and Novell behind it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO vs. Linux: Forget Hans Bayer!
Authored by: JamesK on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:38 PM EDT
Here

---
Self Assembling Möbius Strip - See other side for details.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Former SCO Employee on Hans
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 04:40 PM EDT
A friend called me today and told me that Groklaw was going hard and fast today
on Hans Bayer. I want to say that as a former employee (having been gone a few
years, but still in touch with many there), Hans Bayer is one of the best assets
the company has. He's a solid, stand-up guy that is the consumate professional.
He is well-liked within the company and well respected by his customers, many
of whom are some of the largest in the world (ie., Siemens, BMW). I'm aware
that he was asked to meet with Norris overseas when Norris was doing due
diligence on the company and that a friendship developed. Hans was giving an
opinion that is probably shared by others within the company about the mobility
business, but you have to understand some background.

1. The mobility business has taken away some of the resources from the UNIX
development team and that has upset some of the sales personnel when they have
quotas and are trying to meet the needs of longtime customers.
2. Although it's understood that a mobility plan is a logical step for
expanding the enterprise (similar to what IBM, Novell and others have done),
there was frustration at the type of mobility apps being created. The HipCheck
product made a lot of sense since it matched well with enterprise maintenance
for UNIX servers. The iPhone apps were a novelty and met with some skepticism
as to the relationship to the existing business. FranklinCovery is a great
place to push these products but again, where's the UNIX connection.

2. Hans was made the VP of WW sales some years ago but then later that position
was moved back to Lindon as they wanted senior management to be handled out of
that office. Hans made no big deal about it and now reports to Alan Raymond,
the current WW sales VP. Neither of them are executives and neither of them are
on Darl's staff. Essentially you need that level of title, especially
internationally where titles are more of an issue, when dealing with major
customers like the Siemens and BMW's.

In any case, I'm sure Hans regrets saying some of the things he did because he
is a very loyal employee and just trying to look out for the interests of the
UNIX product line and his customers. To me, it's an honor to have him as a
friend.

[ Reply to This | # ]

We're not interested in the litigation
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 05:49 PM EDT
Really?

Then could you explain, Mr. Norris, the provisions in the sale that stipulate
pursuing all appeals, or that give purchaser sole discretion over that
litigation?

Or why all 'litigated copyrights' (that you aren't interested in) automatically
transfer on any event that goes against SCO?

Or, for that matter, why there are only 2-3 paragraphs in the entire agreement
that discuss the "Unix Business", and then only in vague terms that
IBM and Novell are still trying to get clarified, while 80% of it is about
copyrights (of dubious ownership) and litigation rights.

Surely (hopefully), Gross, having the entire agreement in front of him, can see
he's being conned here.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hail to the chief?
Authored by: rand on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 06:59 PM EDT
Apparently Hans once rose above his VP roots:

"Hans Bayer, president of SCO Germany, said the breach was a mistake, that they had done everything "humanly possible" to obey the order."

http://new.a42.com/node/237

If this is old news, I apologize.

---
The wise man is not embarrassed or angered by lies, only disappointed. (IANAL and so forth and so on)

[ Reply to This | # ]

About Hans Bayer - Hypothesis
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 29 2009 @ 09:01 PM EDT
Disclaimer: The following is pure inference.

Mr. Norris requests Hans Bayer to meet with him, presumably to obtain
information about the business he's about to invest in.
Hans Bayer, who has been demoted by Darl and who has seen his share (UNIX)
dwindle as Darl grows the mobile business, sees an opportunity to follow the
UNIX business out of SCO, knowing that Mr. Norris will probably need a person
with deep knowledge of the product (OpenServer?) and a Rolodex of personal
customers to head his venture.
He pitches himself as CEO and throws in a little dirt on Darl and the mobile arm
to strengthen his position.
Darl finds out (from Mr. Norris?) and Hans Bayer's plan unravels.

Tom

[ Reply to This | # ]

The last play in the game?
Authored by: ChrisP on Thursday, July 30 2009 @ 09:38 AM EDT
Reading the recently posted Update 6 in the report of the June 15th hearing was
instructive in the context of this hearing (July 27th).
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090615195402823

A little history:

Mr Spector presents the York/Hale bid to the court.
The sale documents are deficient.
York doesn't get their $150k for putting the bid together.
Mr Spector apologizes to the court and promises never to do that again.

Mr Spector presents the SNCP/Norris bid to the court.
The sale documents are deficient.
SNCP doesn't get any money for putting the bid together.
Mr Spector apologizes to the court and promises never to do that again.

June 15th is coming up and SCOG will be converted to Ch 7 as the Judge has no
choice in the matter. This should be the last play in the game unless Mr Spector
can arrange a timeout and another play.

Norris gets $200k in advance of putting together another bid (he's learned that
lesson).

June 15th
Mr Spector presents the unXis/Norris bid to the court.
They didn't score but the game's not over yet! They can get the Hail Mary pass
into the air.

The ball is hanging up there.

July 27th
The sale documents are deficient. (Foul, end of game??)
LNS/Hale want to bid too. (A substitute receiver caught the ball...)
An auction looms. (...stepped into touch and stopped the clock.)

How will the umpire rule? Maybe another timeout and another play and SCOG will
survive until the appeal court ruling comes down. Or perhaps the final whistle
will be blown on this farce of a game.

Is there a pattern here? Mr Spector has yet to apologize to the court and
promise never to do that again. Is the third time the charm or the work of the
enemy?

---

Back to June 15th and the Update 6 report. (Not in order.)

"Mr. Spector says they will file a sale motion because this is a done deal.
He says it is terminal to this proceeding. There is a credible belief that this
deal will be closed in the next 30 days."

Yeah, right. Darl and Norris have already signed the deal. Do you get the
impression that the money side is ready to go? It wasn't.

"Mr. Spector doesn't want adjournment now. ... He'd really like to close
the sale, dismiss the case and pay the creditors."

Don't read the fine print, just sign on the dotted line and it will all be ok?
Does he think that Novell and IBM haven't also learned the lessons of the
previous abortive sale attempts?

Mr Lewis:
"There's not enough time to process all the info they were just
given."
Mr Spector is happy with that.

"insinuates that SCO is game-playing"
Mr Lewis got that right.

"doesn't want to send a sub and SCO knows his schedule is full."
So another month of delay at least if the sale is not approved on the spot.

"This deal is not certain to close and could fall through like all the
others."
Prophetic?

"Judge Gross says these issues are difficult. He doesn't think the deal was
done to stall the case"
Perhaps he knows better now.

---
SCO^WM$^WIBM^W, oh bother, no-one paid me to say this.

[ Reply to This | # ]

managing director of a subsidiary != officer of the parent company
Authored by: Daddl on Thursday, July 30 2009 @ 09:47 AM EDT
Sure he once was the executive of the German subsidy, but that didn't make him
an executive/officer of the parent company even during that time. So I think
it's pointless repeating that argument over and over. About the true weight (=
none) of a 'VP' title others have written enough already.

He's just an employee, even if he was included in the negotiations with Norris
as the main negotiator/expert/whatever and has been with SCO/Caldera/etc. for
ages.

[ Reply to This | # ]

If tSCOg want us to spend time thinking about Hans...
Authored by: GriffMG on Friday, July 31 2009 @ 04:39 AM EDT
what are they doing with their other hand.

Think magicians, and wonder what sleight of hand they are using...

---
Keep B-) ing

[ Reply to This | # ]

Why more delay
Authored by: jbb on Friday, July 31 2009 @ 11:16 AM EDT
I agree that the lastest "sale" gimmick was never designed to fly -- it was concocted to create more delay. But that raises the next question: why more delay? PJ wondered if it was because they hope their stock will fly to teh moon if they get good news from the appeal in Utah. But I find it very hard to believe that they would believe that. No one else does. It does not make sense that they would work so very very hard (perjury etc) for such a long shot.

I think they are working so hard for more delay because every day of delay means another day of fresh air and sunshine. I think they have some really awful things to hide that we can probably not even imagine. Perhaps all of the evidence of these things will be shredded once a trustee takes over but then they will face charges for the shredding. But maybe the dirt is in some of their source code that will be impractical to shred. Perhaps gross violations of the GPL.

I did not arrive at this speculative hypothesis because I have a big hate-on for SCO, but rather because it makes many strange pieces of this puzzle fit together. For example, why was SCO so intent on doing so much discovery? I think they really thought that if you dig deep enough you will find dirt on anybody. The reason they thought this was because they knew that it was true about themselves. It is the old story that a liar thinks that everyone else is lying and a cheater thinks that everyone else is cheating. SCO thought that everyone else had a skeleton in every closet.

This one mistake could explain just about all of their absurd actions. Because if IBM's closets were full of skeletons then they would have avoided the deep diving discovery at all costs, thus settling the suit and giving SCO a precedent to go after everyone else in teh world who uses Linux. They would try to delay all other actions to give them time to sift through the discovery and find the smoking skeletons.

Once they realized that there was no dirt to be found on IBM in the mountains and mountains of discovery, they had to shift gears a little and the delay became a defensive strategy forestalling the day when their own closets would get ransacked and their own skeletons would be discovered. So now it all boils down to:

Another day of delay is another day of fresh air and sunshine.

---
You just can't win with DRM.

[ Reply to This | # ]

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