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Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:42 PM EDT

Novell has filed five pro hac vice motions. Yes, friends, they have assigned five Morrison & Foerster attorneys to appear in the SCO bankruptcy, two partners and three associates. They appear to be bankruptcy specialists. I'll put links to their bios in the PACER notes. The fleet is in.

Here's the latest on PACER:
18 - Filed & Entered: 09/17/2007
Exhibit
Docket Text: Exhibit Notice of Filing Exhibit A to Debtors' Motion for Authority to (I) Maintain Existing Bank Accounts, (II) Continue to Use Existing Business Forms, (III) Continue to Use Existing Cash Management System, and (IV) to Excuse Section 345(b) Deposit and Investment Requirements (related document(s)[7] ) Filed by The SCO Group, Inc.. (Attachments: # (1) Exhibit A) (Werkheiser, Rachel)

19 - Filed & Entered: 09/17/2007
Motion to Appear pro hac vice (B)
Docket Text: Motion to Appear pro hac vice of Adam A. Lewis. Receipt Number 148915, Filed by Novell, Inc.. (Nestor, Michael)

20 - Filed & Entered: 09/17/2007
Motion to Appear pro hac vice (B)
Docket Text: Motion to Appear pro hac vice of Julie Dyas. Receipt Number 148915, Filed by Novell, Inc.. (Nestor, Michael)

21 - Filed & Entered: 09/17/2007
Motion to Appear pro hac vice (B)
Docket Text: Motion to Appear pro hac vice of David Capucilli. Receipt Number 148915, Filed by Novell, Inc.. (Nestor, Michael)

22 - Filed & Entered: 09/17/2007
Motion to Appear pro hac vice (B)
Docket Text: Motion to Appear pro hac vice of Larren M. Nashelsky. Receipt Number 148915, Filed by Novell, Inc.. (Nestor, Michael)

23 - Filed & Entered: 09/17/2007
Motion to Appear pro hac vice (B)
Docket Text: Motion to Appear pro hac vice of James DeCristofaro. Receipt Number 148915, Filed by Novell, Inc.. (Nestor, Michael)

They are all from the New York office except for Mr. Lewis, who is a partner from San Francisco. I might be prejudiced, but if there is anything more frightening than a Morrison & Foerster attorney, it's got to be a *New York* Morrison & Foerster attorney.

Mr. Lewis, despite not being from New York, sounds quite impressive. Here's just a taste from his bio:

Mr. Lewis is a member of the American Bar Association's Business Bankruptcy Committee and Chapter 11 Subcommittee. He was also a member of the California State Bar Association's Debtor/Creditor Relations and Bankruptcy Committee for a regular three-year term. He has appeared on panels for programs on bankruptcy sponsored by national continuing legal education, trade and professional organizations. From 1992 to 2003, he was a member of the Editorial Board of the American Bankruptcy Institute. Mr. Lewis taught the Bankruptcy course by invitation at the University of California at Berkeley's Boalt Hall School of Law in the Spring of 2004.

And say, hey. Lookie here. This is an interesting area of expertise:

Ms. Dyas earned her J.D. from the University of Texas Law School in 2002, and her Ph.D. in Linguistics from the University of Texas at Austin in 2002. Her doctoral research analyzed the linguistic features of deception under oath in English and certain romance languages.

Well. Shut my mouth. But I think we have a match.


  


Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived | 522 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
O/T (Off Topic) here, please...
Authored by: jbeadle on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:46 PM EDT

And clicky links are always appreciated!

Thanks,
-jb

.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Kerrectshuns
Authored by: TonyW on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:48 PM EDT
Post corrections (if any) as replies to this post.

[ Reply to This | # ]

What about IBM & Red Hat?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:48 PM EDT
But what about IBM and Red Hat?
Will they be there too?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: jbeadle on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:48 PM EDT
Hoo-Hah!!

Let the fireworks begin, Cap'n.

(Sure wish I could be there, but it's clear across the country for me...
<sigh>

-jb

.

[ Reply to This | # ]

what are their chances of stopping this?
Authored by: skip on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:51 PM EDT
Can Novell manage to prevent the bankruptcy being granted?

I'm thinking that if they can't, SCO will have an umbrella under which they can
launch further fud attacks without comeback. It might not help their business to
do so, but lets be honest, they're annoyed.

[ Reply to This | # ]

How about Groklaw?
Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:52 PM EDT
Is anyone from Groklaw going to be able to go?





---
Rsteinmetz - IANAL therefore my opinions are illegal.

"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."
Randy Newman - The Title Theme from Monk

[ Reply to This | # ]

Lewis looks impressive
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:53 PM EDT
"Mr. Lewis is a member of the American Bar Association's Business
Bankruptcy Committee and Chapter 11 Subcommittee."

Gee, I guess SCO will show him. Tomorrow will be interesting indeed.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two partners and three associates...
Authored by: MacUser on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:53 PM EDT
... I wonder how many paralegals lost their weekend, too?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:54 PM EDT
Actually PJ, I think Delta Force dropping onto the courthouse roof is a better
analogy than the fleet coming in. :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

shearing
Authored by: seanlynch on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:54 PM EDT
It appears that Novell won't let any wool get pulled over the Bankruptcy Court's
proverbial eyes.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Soooooooo
Authored by: jjock on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:56 PM EDT
It looks like nobody was fooled after all. The end game remains
the same. If SCO was going to pull this stunt, they should have
attempted it before Judge Kimball's ruling on the PSJ's
They can't really believe they were going to win them with all the
REAL evidence that was so <smirk> unfairly <unsmirk>
stacked against them.
Bob

[ Reply to This | # ]

Anyone check the CVs?
Authored by: overshoot on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 05:57 PM EDT
These are not lightweights. They are some seriously baaaaaaaaaaad MoFos.

[ Reply to This | # ]

PJ, any news from Utah?
Authored by: TJ on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:01 PM EDT

The trial was due to begin today, the motion to stay was posted Friday, but I was expecting there'd be some word from the court such as an Order confirming the stay?

What would you expect to see in this situation, from Judge Kimball's court?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like There Will Be No Tomorrow
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:03 PM EDT
It's late here over the pond, and I have been staring at a screen for too long.

Due to this, my first reading of the headline was:

Looks Like There Will Be No Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived!

[ Reply to This | # ]

That's some impressive credentials
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:09 PM EDT
This looks like some pretty big guns being brought in... Two partners, one the
chair of the firm's bankruptcy group, one who clerked for Justice Kennedy and
lists as special expertise in bankruptcy litigation "intellectual
property, high tech" and "preference or fraudulent conveyance
actions", and even one who has, in addition to a strong background in
bankruptcy litigation a PhD on "linguistic features of deception under
oath".

[ Reply to This | # ]

Has IBM scheduled an appearance yet?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:23 PM EDT


Has IBM scheduled an appearance yet?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Will SCO Offer to Settle?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:23 PM EDT
The bankruptcy application may be a prelude to SCO offering to settle with Novell (and possibly with the other parties). They would need to declare bankruptcy in order to try for a settlement.

SCO could make the following offers:

  • To Novell - Turn over the Unix business as full payment for monies owed. Both parties drop all other claims.
  • To IBM - this one is easy. IBM really wants declarations, not money. SCO gives them all the declarations they want. Both parties drop all claims.
  • To Red Hat - SCO gives Red Hat declarations of non-infringement. Both parties drop all claims.
  • To Autozone and any other parties - Same as Red Hat.
  • The declarations to IBM, Red Hat, etc. are signed before the transfer of SCO's Unix interests to Novell, so that whatever claims SCO may have had based on its Unix business are extinguished.
  • SCO keeps the cash, and the non-Unix software business.

SCO's post-Unix strategy could be:

  • New shares are issued to the creditors in place of the existing debt.
  • Existing shareholders get nothing.
  • Management (Ralf and Darl) get "incentive packages" consisting of large stock options (effectively replacing what they lost by cancelling their old shares).
  • Most employees either transfer to Novell (those related to the Unix development or Unix sales), or are laid off. A few related to the non-Unix software business are kept on.
  • SCO changes their name.
  • The "new" company tries life as a start-up based on the "SCO Mobile" (with a new name) product line.

    • Following the above, Darl and Ralf hope for the reward which was promised from their pipe fairy friends, and have to swallow their disappointment when their former friends don't return their phone calls anymore. Some time in the future when the cash runs out, the remains of SCO are liquidated and they become a footnote in history.

    I don't have any inside information that says the above is the case. However, since it is really the best that SCO could hope for at this time, I would not be surprised to see SCO make the offer.

    [ Reply to This | # ]

The Fleet Has Arrived...
Authored by: webster on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:23 PM EDT
..
...when one carrier would do. These Novell people plan to make a showing and a
point. One wonders why they didn't push so hard for a constructive trust
earlier in the suit. With this fleet they may spend more than they collect.
Other than the money is there some significance to their effort? Are they
pinching them now to get past the Corporate SCO? The fleet must have some deep
pocket battleship in its sights.



---
webster


© 2007 Monopoly Corporation. ALL rights reserved. Yours included.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Blames Linux For Bankruptcy Filing
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:25 PM EDT
Information Week
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201806893

SCO Group CEO Darl McBride says sales of Unix-based
products have been declining over the past several years,
mainly because of Linux.
By Paul McDougall
InformationWeek
September 17, 2007 10:00 AM


SCO Group CEO Darl McBride says competition from the open
source Linux operating system was a major reason why the
company was forced to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy
protection on Friday.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Canonically correct Corrections Thread
Authored by: nsomos on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:43 PM EDT
Please place any corrections in this correctly spelled thread.
It would be nice if the title were a hint as to the nature
of the correction.

There is a good reason to insist on having 'corrections'
correctly spelled in the intro to this thread.
Having it correctly spelled makes it easy to find.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Can SCO be held in contempt for declaring BK
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 06:52 PM EDT
Can SCO be held in contempt of court for declaring bankruptcy very shortly after

saying they would not...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: wethion on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 07:03 PM EDT
I will be there with bells on, taking copious notes for you all. Who else is
going?
I'm getting there around 7:15ish, look for the blond guy with a notepad.
Peace,
Wethion

---
Jon Postel, you are missed.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Odd question
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 07:16 PM EDT
Currently Novell "may" have a debt owed it by SCO or it may not as the
amount has not been determined. So until the trial in Utah Novell is not
"owed" any money. So even if SCO achieves success in their chapter
11, since at the time of bankruptcy, Novell is not owed anything, would Novell
winning in Utah after the bankruptcy still allow Novell to collect? Thereby
forcing a Chapter 7 liquidation gaining all SCO assets as they are owed more
than the sum of SCO assets assuming the whole 25+ million from the licenses? Or
would Novell's potential debt be cleared by the chapter 11 eventhough it is not
known what that debt is?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Can the bankruptcy court start everything over again?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 07:23 PM EDT

If the Bankruptcy Court can try all these cases itself, does
that mean it can order the whole thing to start over again?
New discovery, new depositions, etc.?

If there have been no final orders issued, does that make it
all erasable?

It just wouldn't surprise me if SCO tries for such a thing.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I just noticed the dates
Authored by: Jude on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 07:24 PM EDT
> Ms. Dyas earned her J.D. from the University of Texas Law
> School in 2002, and her Ph.D. in Linguistics from the
> University of Texas at Austin in 2002.

So, she got her J.D. and her Ph.D. in the same year? I don't think this lady
likes to waste time.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: bezz on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 07:25 PM EDT
I'll be there.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Tomorrow
Authored by: rsi on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 07:35 PM EDT
I will also be going down by Amtrak from NYC very early tomorrow morning and
will be there. I am not as good as keeping detailed notes of what is said, but
will try to make other observations. I decided this too much of a historical
event not to miss. Will send my notes to PJ, ASAP after the hearing.

Will try to look for other Groklawers

Rick Stanley

[ Reply to This | # ]

Recording Devices?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 08:09 PM EDT
I know Judge Kimball's court disallowed recording devices but what about
bankruptcy court? Can visitors do audio or video recording?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell is going to darken the skies above Delaware with lawyers
Authored by: The Mad Hatter r on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 08:33 PM EDT


At the very least. Now I wonder what IBM is doing. I'll bet it's something that
Darl won't like.

Heh - who knew bankruptcy court could be so interesting!



---
Wayne

http://sourceforge.net/projects/twgs-toolkit/

[ Reply to This | # ]

To the "I'm PJ" Crowd:
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 08:33 PM EDT
Bring your attire and a digital camera. Assemble after hearing.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I just read the books
Authored by: kozmcrae on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 08:57 PM EDT
"Ms. Dyas earned her J.D. from the University of Texas Law School in 2002,
and her Ph.D. in Linguistics from the University of Texas at Austin in 2002. Her
doctoral research analyzed the linguistic features of deception under oath in
English and certain romance languages."

That may be only 45 words, but it speaks volumes.

Richard


---
Coming soon: Signature 2.0

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: JimDiGriz on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 09:12 PM EDT
"The Fleet"? More like the League of Extraordinary Lawyers (The Alan
Moore version). Or perhaps the Justice League? Just as long as it isn't Harvey
Birdman or Matt Murdock.

JdG

[ Reply to This | # ]

The FLEET Has Arrived
Authored by: rand on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 09:15 PM EDT
FLEET® is a registered trademark of C.B.Fleet Company, Incorporated, of Lynchburg, Virginia, whose most famous product line - which also also carries trademarks under the Fleet® brand - includes certain medical products used to prepare patients for colorectal exams.

So drink up, SCO, and remember, no solid foods after midnight!

---
The wise man is not embarrassed or angered by lies, only disappointed. (IANAL and so forth and so on)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 09:30 PM EDT
I personally don't like the fleet analogy. I'll vote for "the occupation
forces have arrived" or "the marines have landed". I don't see
the lawyers as large slow moving vessels, but highly mobile tactical warfare (or
Bankruptcy) specialists.

My personal take on the situation is that after Novell's lawyers have their say
either the court will affirm Novell's debt or allow the trial to progress. With
the bankruptcy motion still in force the court will convert the motion to
chapter 7.

You can't undo a bankruptcy filing. Once you file the court runs things. You may
request chapter 11, but the reality is that the court can switch you to 7 at
their sole discretion, without the say of current management.

This is actually good for Novell in a sense, as they can argue for a summary
judgment by the BK court that SCO owes them the full 30million (or whatever the
real total is after interest etc...). If the court agrees that the money owed to
Novell exceeds the SCO assets then the court converts to chapter 7 and Novell is
the top creditor. The company is immediately liquidated and Novell gets every
single dime and can likely take ownership of all of SCO's assets including their
IP.

And if someone could correct me, I don't think appealing bankruptcy decisions is
very common, nor very successful, nor am I sure it's even possible.

Although they probably won't because of the Legal costs, I would very much like
to see them go after Boise, Darl and Canopy for Conversion. Personally I would
like to see them bankrupt Darl and seriously damage Canopy. It would be good for
corporate ethics nationwide if a CEO and the shills behind him were taken to the
shed financially for the illegal actions of the corporation. Not only that but
it would likely send a clear message to Novell's competitors not to screw with
them.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: dlharper on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 09:45 PM EDT
Well . . . my guess would be since there is a trustee assigned, the judge will
probably hear all the motions etc he wants, passes it off to the trustee, and
asks him to let him know in a week or three exactly what the heck is going on.
When the trustee gets back with him and fills him in, that's when all the good
stuff (from our point of view) happens. I'd be (happily) shocked if the judge
tossed it out tomorrow, although I'd be willing to bet by the end of the hearing
he'll be more than annoyed at SCO. But I can't see him doing anything until the
trustee recommends it.

But hey, I'm a computer dork, not a lawyer, so what do I know?

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCOX down 40+%
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 09:46 PM EDT
SCOX dropped to $0.22/share today on the NYSE, down from $0.37 on Friday.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Video / Tape recording
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 10:32 PM EDT
Is video or tape recording allowed in that new court??

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • No. - Authored by: Ed L. on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 12:40 AM EDT
Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: 34CFR20USC on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 11:00 PM EDT
Vault Top 25 Firm in the hizzy-house!

Awwww yeah, it's on now!

---
I am not an attorney. I'm just a lowly researcher who is a law groupie. I
don't offer advice, but I ask a lot of questions.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: eschasi on Monday, September 17 2007 @ 11:55 PM EDT
A question for those who know their away around bankruptcy law - isn't it
downright weird that SCO declares bankruptcy with assets outweighing debts? And
in such a case, is it possible they would be refused bankruptcy protection?

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCOXQ?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 01:59 AM EDT
When will we see the ticker change?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Trustees and Detecting Bankrupcy Fraud
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 02:03 AM EDT

A little humor of the day. Located this page while looking into the history of our newly mentioned trustee: http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/f raud/index.htm

HOLY COW! This guy is also one of the folks involved in the bankrupcy of new Century! One of the largest subprime lenders that went under! In April, he opposed some of the massive mortgage deals that New Century tried to make in bankrupcy (selling off large mortgage batches) and rallied against the $1MM breakup fee payable to the brokering bank on breakup of the deal. In may, he moved to unseat management following work with the IRS that indicated New Century's debt to the IRS at more than $400MM.

SEC-reporting Companies that I can find connections with him working though bankrupcy with:

  • New Century Financial
  • Trenwick America Corp
  • Fleming Companies
  • Rouge Industries
  • Nationsrent
  • Pillowtex Corp
  • Factory Card & Party Outlet
  • Metrocall Holdings
  • Inacom Corp

And the rest....

  • Genesis Health Ventures
  • GC Companies Inc
  • Zenith Electronics Corp
  • Fruit of the Loom Ltd

[a number of cases ommitted for brevity.]

Politically, he is recorded as donating to several candidates over the years as well as a few charities, some legally affiliated, a couple not. This guy needs to do a privacy sweep. Way too much of his work information is easily and publicly availible on the internet thanks to court filings including certificates of service which were subsequently posted unedited on corporate websites.

Of far more concern to me is the relative amateur status of Judge Kevin Gross. His history with the court is very short with mostly smaller cases to date and from looking at various opinions, they dont seem to be any with nearly as uh..... dynamics.... entities as SCO's legal team have shown themselves to be.

---
Clocks
"Ita erat quando hic adveni."

[ Reply to This | # ]

Will Canopy be there tommorrow?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 02:32 AM EDT
After reading Lamlaw, I was wondering which, if any creditors (other than Novell
et al).
Canopy is listed as the #3 creditor at $139K.

Remember the bitter split between Canopy and SCO/Yarrow?

I doubt they will bother, but wouldn't it be a hoot if they did.
Chickens coming home to roost and nothing the fox can do.
Dennis H.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks Like Novell Will Be There Tomorrow - The Fleet Has Arrived
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 03:59 AM EDT
How can Novell afford these people? IBM I wouldn't be suprised but Novells
pockets aren't that deep.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO seems to have a heavy hitter too
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 04:12 AM EDT
Bio of Arthur J Spector here .

"Arthur Spector is a shareholder and serves as the team manager for [Berger Singerman's] Business Reorganization Team. Mr. Spector focuses his practice on business reorganization and litigation on behalf of debtors, creditors, trustees, committees, parties interested in acquiring companies or assets, and parties sued by any of the foregoing. ... He was a United States Bankruptcy Judge in the Eastern District of Michigan for eighteen years (1984-2002), where he was Chief Judge the last three years. He authored 170 published judicial opinions, including 25 in the Dow Corning case alone."

More on that Dow Corning case here.

[ Reply to This | # ]

MoFo, NY vs SF
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 05:14 AM EDT
Oh, believe me, the SF MoFo attorneys are plenty scary. ;)

[ Reply to This | # ]

How many lawyers does it take?
Authored by: Ian Al on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 06:05 AM EDT
I had a Google for the answer, but there is nothing definitive. The closest
answer I got is 'It depends how many wheelbarrows of motion practice they have
to wheel in'.

---
Regards
Ian Al

Linux: Genuine Advantage

[ Reply to This | # ]

It just occurred to me.
Authored by: Ian Al on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 07:07 AM EDT
Judge Gross looks across the courtroom at the five, heavy-hitting Novell lawyers
and says 'I see. You're here to recover a debt of, let me look at Darl's note,
ah yes, less than $5000. Might there be something I don't yet know about this
company?'.

---
Regards
Ian Al

Linux: Genuine Advantage

[ Reply to This | # ]

Repercussions?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 18 2007 @ 10:37 AM EDT
Reading some of the posts on the process of bankruptcy, and the comments that
state a company cannot declare bankruptcy just to avoid a judgement or to change
venue, it seems as if SCO filed this declaration of bankruptcy for the sole
purpose of doing just that; avoiding judgement and/or accomplishing a change of
venue to get this out of Kimball's hands.

What repurcussions could they face if it is determined that they made this
declaration for either of those reasons?

[ Reply to This | # ]
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