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Not only is it not getting smaller, the HP story is getting bigger - Updated 2Xs
Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 07:38 PM EDT

Not only were HP board members' phone records accessed in the leak probe, now comes the extraordinary news that so were CNET reporter Dawn Kawamoto's, who wrote the article that angered HP's chairwoman Patricia Dunn.

According to's Jim Kerstetter:

On Thursday, an investigator with the attorney general's office contacted Kawamoto and said AT&T confirmed that her records had, indeed, been accessed. Kawamoto said she never authorized her home phone records to be shared with anyone, and she noted her home phone number is under her husband's name, not her own.

Here's David Berlind's take. It's the first time I've ever known him to be at a loss for words. Having experienced something similar, I just want to say how deeply and intensely I despise and loathe such behavior. Don't people understand that harrassing and intimidating journalists is a very fast way to destroy the United States of America? That isn't overstating it at all. The entire system, as envisaged, was for journalists to play a role in making sure the people know the facts, and leaks are sometimes the only way to get them. If you destroy that balance, just because you can, thanks to technology, what have you done?

Hackers, or really crackers, had to learn that lesson, didn't they? Tech is fun, but the lesson had to be learned that just because you *can* do something technically, it doesn't mean you *should*. It took laws to get that point across to some, and I would expect that we will be seeing laws next about pretexting to rein in these corporate cowboys, and the private investigators they hire, so they understand that there is a line. Because when you can't see the line for yourself, it has a way of rising up and smacking you upside the head, which is what is now happening right now to HP. Was it worth it, just to find a leaker?

One thing is for sure, if this isn't illegal, it needs to be. Pronto. And according to the latest from Bloomberg, CA Attorney General Bill Lockyer is now saying unambiguously that crimes were committed:

California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said crimes were committed in Hewlett-Packard Co.'s investigation of board members, and charges are likely to be brought. Lockyer said it's too early to determine whether company executives or the investigators they hired would be charged...."It's unclear exactly who is liable and how severe it is and who had specific knowledge."...A key question is whether company executives knew or should have known about the tactics the investigators were using, he said.

It's that "should have known" that would have me up at night if I were the subject of the investigation.

UPDATE: Now the NY Times reports that 9 journalists' phone records were breached, including its own John Markoff. (And may I please be the first to tell the New York Times in passing how much I despise their requirement that all readers be required to accept cookies, speaking of privacy invasions?) And according to the report, the investigation began in 2005, not 2006, prompting Mr. Perkins' attorney, Viet D. Dinh, to say this:

"If it is true that the pretexting started before January 2006 and dated back to 2005, it would suggest a deeper and more troubling chain of events than the hiring of third-party pretexters and would reach much higher to persons responsible at H.P."

And the Mercury News has info on exactly what laws we're talking about having been broken, straight from the CA AG's mouth:

Lockyer said that although pretexting is not specifically singled out in California's penal code, his office is convinced that the practice violates two statutes, one protecting data and the other protecting privacy. The charges would likely involve gaining unauthorized access to computer data and identity theft through the unauthorized use of personal information. Such violations could be prosecuted as a misdemeanor, which carries a maximum one year county jail sentence, or a felony, which carries a maximum of three years in prison.

Lockyer said it's too soon to say whether his investigation will lead to charges against HP officials or board members, against the investigative company, or that company's subcontractor. Lockyer said he expected that HP would blame its investigators. "Obviously, their defense is, it wasn't us, it was an agent that broke the law."

HP's Donovan said that at the time of the pretexting, "there were no established laws in the U.S. prohibiting pretexting.'' Since that time, some states have adopted laws prohibiting it, he said. (In California, a bill to outlaw pretexting is now on Gov. Shwarzenegger's desk.)

And Wired tells us that Perkins' attorney has referred the matter also to the US Department of Justice, the Federal Trade Commission and the FCC. Other laws implicated:

The action also violates an identity-theft law that makes it illegal to use someone's personal information for an unlawful purpose. [CA deputy attorney general Robert] Morgester said using someone's Social Security number to open an online billing account in their name to obtain their phone records would qualify as identity theft.

The federal government could also conceivably go after HP for unfair trade practices and violating the wire fraud act, "assuming that this crossed state lines you could argue that they used electronic communications to commit fraud against another person," said Chris Hoofnagle, privacy expert and senior staff attorney with the Samuelson Law, Technology and Public Policy Clinic at UC Berkeley. Additionally, the board members themselves could seek restitution.

"The board members affected could bring suit against the investigators and Hewlett Packard under tort law for invasion of privacy and theft of data," said Hoofnagle. "But the most effective path would be for the phone carriers to go after them."

UPDATE 2: The Wall St. Journal has emails [PDF] between Tom Perkins and HP's outside counsel Larry Sonsini, in which Perkins tells Sonsini that "the investigation was a Patti Dunn program, 100% -- conceived and managed by her, and unknown to the board, except perhaps in the most vague and imprecise terms, with the possible exception of Mark, who she may have briefed."

We now have two more names of journalists whose phone records were breached. CNET News' Jim Kerstetter reports that in addition to Dawn Kawamoto, Tom Krazit's were also. He cowrote the article that started this saga rolling. The article also mentions that the Wall St. Journal's reporter Pui-Wing Tam was also a target.


Not only is it not getting smaller, the HP story is getting bigger - Updated 2Xs | 309 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Authored by: qu1j0t3 on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 08:11 PM EDT
1st sentence, "extraordinary news"

3rd para, "play a role in"

I have a semicolon and I'm not afraid to use it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Off-Topic Posts Go HERE
Authored by: Weeble on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 08:17 PM EDT
And don't forget:

1) Use "HTML-Formatted" for posts that include links.

2) Follow the example of "Clickable Links" in the comment editor.

3) Hit "Preview" and make sure the links work before submitting your

You Never Know What You're Going to Learn--or Learn About--on Groklaw!
(NOTE: Click the "Weeble" link for Copying Permissions and Contact Info.)

[ Reply to This | # ]

no go snapfish now
Authored by: ZenDragon on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 08:20 PM EDT
Guess this means "no" to posting preschool pictures at, a
division of Hewlett-Packard.

The director of the school was leery and on-the-fence about it and I was saying
HP is entirely trustable.

Any wind of this story and I just know the cause will be lost. In fact, I'll
just drop the request so as to not look stupid.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Me and My Big Mouth
Authored by: Weeble on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 08:24 PM EDT
And here I've not only been telling my girlfriend it would be wise to plan when
and how to dump her small investment in MSFT stock, but suggesting that HP would
be a good destination for the investment $$$.

Hope the appropriate hineys get kicked (out) and things are returning to order
before she gets to that point. Maybe I should suggest she invest in Apple

You Never Know What You're Going to Learn--or Learn About--on Groklaw!
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[ Reply to This | # ]

Cry me a river
Authored by: Carla Schroder on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 09:02 PM EDT
Ordinary folks have been taking it in the shorts for
years- identity theft, losing fair use rights, losing
recourse against abusive/incompetent/malicious businesses
and professionals,
spam, and the multi-billion dollar trade in our personal
data, where everyone but us profits from buying and
selling our most personal information. And the news media
dutifully cover it, sort of, in a shallow, perfunctory
way, and move on.

But now that one of their own has been trespassed upon, we
see outrage! Headlines! This should not happen in the Land
of the Free!

Yeah, whatever. Welcome to our world, schmucks.

[ Reply to This | # ]

So easy to start a life of crime ...
Authored by: publius_REX on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 09:14 PM EDT
Wow! If that article was all it took to send some "Captain
of Industry" :) into a life of crime, what happens when
they really get ticked off?

If Steve Balmer finds out about these investigators, we're
in really big trouble. Flying chairs will be the least of
our worries.

But seriously folks, it has always been my most jaded
belief that people with lots of money or power got that
way because they would do *anything* to get it.

It makes the rare exception, exemplified by honesty and
integrity, that much more special.

This also underlines the essential function of a free and
unfettered press. Folks, they are are only protection
from all the corruption.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Journalist was not the target
Authored by: jdg on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 09:14 PM EDT
They did not try to intmidate the journalist as far as I can tell (I have not
followed this real closely beyond WSJ story today). They were trying to find
who, within the board, was making unauthorized statements. This is not a major
'freedom of the press' issue. Should they have done what they did; I do not
think so. Should the board member have done what they did; I don't think so.
This is not a whistle blower but someone trying to push the board to adopt their
point of view when the majority did not take that point of view. These are all
powerful people, one or more did not play by the rules and they did not like it
when the board did not play by the rules. In terms of the board, the fact that
one had some privacy/legality issues does not change the nature of the dual
violation, nor the order of those violations.

SCO is trying to appropriate the "commons"; don't let them [IANAL]

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: MrCharon on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 09:16 PM EDT

From the Bloomberg article:

``H-P is dismayed that the phone records of journalists were accessed without their knowledge and we are fully cooperating with the attorney general's investigation,'' Donovan said.

UUUmmmm HP, you asked the investigators to find out who is leaking information to the press. You don't think they arn't going to also investigate the journalist.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Let's think this through
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 09:48 PM EDT

The entire system, as envisaged, was for journalists to play a role in making sure the people know the facts, and leaks are sometimes the only way to get them.

I doubt that you would say something like that if some "friend" were to leak your identity, location, personal information, etc. Yet somehow leaks play an important role to let the public know facts!? So a certain unnamed (by me) reporter was right in what she did to you? I think not. The public has no constitutional right to facts. I am, no doubt, pretty ignorant about these things, but your position on this seems inconsistent to me.

[ Reply to This | # ]

nine journalists who have covered Hewlett-Packard, including one from The New York Times
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 10:13 PM EDT
It only gets better from here - According to NY Times, nine journalists who have
covered Hewlett-Packard, including one from The New York Times, were victims of
HP's / HP agentsís identity fraud.
amp;ref=business&oref=slogin">click here for NY Times

Just don't buy any HP products. HP is THE strategic partner of SCOX. Now the
HP board and HP company commits such (criminal or not) acts. What else have
they done? Why would you want to have anything to do with them?

[ Reply to This | # ]

I think "pretexting" is already illegal.
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 10:19 PM EDT
It's just called "wire fraud."

I don't think new laws are needed here -- but I *do* think that the appropriate

folks (definitely the private investigator, and if HP management knew, then HP
management as well) should be charged with wire fraud.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Not only is it not getting smaller, the HP story is getting bigger
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 10:57 PM EDT

How do you know you are not under investigation. Have you checked with
your phone company recently?

An individual may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean someone isn't after

The phone companies had better clean up their act pronto, unless they
want to be DOSed by phone by all their customers asking if anyone has asked
for their phone information recently.

All our operators our busy. Please hold for the next available operator.
Your business is very important to use. Your estimated wait time is fifty

[ Reply to This | # ]

Whatever happen to ethics?
Authored by: chaz_paw on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 11:28 PM EDT
Pretexting may be legal; is it ethical?

Privacy has been invaded and some argue about legalities.

I'm at a loss for words, too.

Proud SuSE user since 07/26/04
Registered Linux user #422376


[ Reply to This | # ]

HP lawyer Larry Sonsini said Pretexting is Legal
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 07 2006 @ 11:50 PM EDT
The Wall Street Journal has published some e-mail between HP lawyer Larrry Sonsini to Tom Perkins. Here are a couple of excerpts from Sonsini's June 28th e- mail -

"The investigating team did obtain information regarding phone calls made and received by the cell or home phones of directors. This was done through a third party that made pretext calls to phone service providers. Apparently a common investigatory method which was confirmed with experts. The legal team checked with outside counsel as to the legality of this method."

"It appears, therefore, that the process was well done and within legal limits."

If anyone wants to do some pretexting of Larry Sonsini phone records, he says it's legal to do so.

[ Reply to This | # ]

H-P XOs should ...
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 12:23 AM EDT
1. Contact a Swiss Banking Official ... expect to pay premium
and set up a wire transfer of all U.S. banking and security
acconts to the Swiss Bank.

2. Act composed, pat fellow employees on the back, be talkitive,
answer directive question non-directively.

3. Make for the Mexico boarder, ditch the car, plan to spend a
night in the desert, cross the border at many unchecked places,
bring cash and gold for barter with locals, bring a side arm,
plan to use it.

4. In Mexcio City, buy plane tickets, with cash or gold, add
premium for sales clerk and supervisor, destination - China
- no extradition tready with U.S.!

5. Get out now! Don't look back! The bridges are already


[ Reply to This | # ]

The crime is bad but the coverup may be worse
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 12:27 AM EDT
The California attorney general has already weighed in the fact that laws were
broken. At the very least, the investigators in this little affair may be
charged with a crime. But like Watergate, the original burglers are only the
tip of the iceberg.

If Patricia Dunn knew what her operatives were doing and their methods, she
could certainly be exposed to knowingly receiving stolen property...heck, even
conspiracy wouldn't be far away. But her actions may have also brought legal
action on the heads of the board of directors as well. Why? Well the board
filed the 8K describing Perkins resignation back in late May, which Perkins
objected to as clearly defective. But they blew him off until just recently
when he went public with his charges to the media and all appropiate
authorities. One of those "authorities" is the SEC and knowingly
filing an inaccurate 8K about a director leaving the company runs afoul of
Sarbanes-Oxley, something that Perkins knows well having previous chaired the
board's governance committee. HP only recently updated its 8K filing, several
months after the original filing after repeated attempted from Perkins to get it

At the very least the Chairwoman and the currect governance board chair would
have to know they were defying the law to coverup the goings on inside the HP
board room. But if the rest of the HP board of directors knew about the
defective 8K but did nothing to stop it or were complicit in its filing, then
all of then could be help liable by the SEC for misleading the government and

Heads are going to roll. The big question is...outside of Patricia Dunn, who
else will be forced to leave?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Cookies and websites
Authored by: feldegast on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 12:28 AM EDT
i just tried the NY Times article with javascript disabled (so no cookies) and
it works fine, the cookies (though i haven't checked) are probably to remember
your login information if you check the check box when logging in.

i routinely browse websites with javascript disabled (using the No Script plugin
for Firefox).

i selectively enable javascript only on websites i consider safe.

unfortunately some websites won't work at all without javascript and so you have
to enable it to even view their main page....i try and avoid such sites whenever

My posts are ©2004-2006 and released under the Creative Commons License
Attribution-Noncommercial 2.0
P.J. has permission for commercial use.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Shareholder meeting should be lively - n/t
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 01:13 AM EDT

[ Reply to This | # ]

Clarify: HP or Dunn/BOD
Authored by: dbc on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 01:38 AM EDT
A lot of people are pointing the finger at HP, the company. However, as I
understand the articles I have read, the investigation was ordered by Dunn, the
COB. Did management know about it? Also, an article I read said Wilson-Sonsini
is the board's counsel. Are they also HP's outside counsel?

We need to keep track of who exactly misplaced their moral compass -- clearly
Dunn; but it is unclear to me as of yet if HP management was clued in. This may
have been a one-person cowgirl dustup by Dunn.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Agency - need a primer
Authored by: dbc on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 01:49 AM EDT
IANAL -- but I've hung around a few, and I vaguely recall a concept called
"agency" whereby employers have certain liability/responsibility for
the acts of their agents. Like, for instance, the UPS driver accidently
clobbering your front gate post with a big brown truck.

So, let's talk about the case of a private investigator hired by the chairman of
the board. If the PI does something illegal in the course of executing
instructions from the COB, does agency cause any of that to stick to the COB?
Is agency only a concept in civil matters, or does it apply to criminial

[ Reply to This | # ]

PJ, here's how I manage cookies with my Firefox setup...
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 02:09 AM EDT
Here's what my Firefox cookies settings are set at
1. "Accept cookies from sites" + "Keep until I close
2. Under "Exceptions", I explicitly block certain domains I absolutely
do not want cookies from and allow cookies from sites with cookies I would like
to retain.

With these settings, any site I have not explicitly blocked can set a session
cookie, and only sites I have explicitly allowed can store cookies that survive
my browsing session.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Don't like the message?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 07:49 AM EDT
You don't like the message so you attack the messenger?

[ Reply to This | # ]

HP Ethics policy
Authored by: sk43 on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 07:50 AM EDT
Is here Some relevant snippets:
Starting in 2005, we focused on ethical leadership, emphasizing that every person at HP can be an ethical leader regardless of title or job responsibilities.
Embodying HP standards. Every member of the HP community (including directors, executives, managers, employees and business partners) must adhere to the highest standards of business ethics and comply with all applicable laws.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Not only is it not getting smaller, the HP story is getting bigger - Updated
Authored by: grahamt on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 08:12 AM EDT
The WSJ has a lot of good material here:

[ Reply to This | # ]

Sort of On/Off Topic
Authored by: WhiteFang on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 09:11 AM EDT
The arguments here going back and forth about essentially who's more guilty,
either Dunn or Perkins remind me of several converstations I've had with a
colleague at work.

I would rather keep my interactions with Microsoft to a minimum because I
consider A} the company to be unethical in it's behaviour and B} it's products
to be mediocre at best.

He acknowledges but has no problems with Microsoft's unethical behaviour because
they are so successful. He'd jump at the chance to be a Partner at Microsoft.

He's a nice person, but I question his ethics and moral values.

At the moment, the facts are apparently these:

1} An HP board member leaked some 'strategic' information to a reporter.

2} The chair hired private investigators to research the _private_ records of
board members and reporters without telling them.

3} Said PIs used criminal methods to obtain this information. Point of fact. The
only methods of obtaining this information without a subpeona are to use
criminal methods.

4} When the chair revealed the investigation and it's results, the board member
directly responsible for corporate governance immediately objected to the ways
and means. The board, apparently OK with the chair's illegal and unethical
investigation, did nothing to mitigate the chair's actions.

5} The board member responsible for corporate governance resigned on principle.

6} Said (ex-)board member attempted to fullfil his legal and moral
responsibilities by trying to work with the board to be sure all the required
legal i's were dotted and t's were crossed.

7} The board refused all opportunities to take corrective action.

8} The (ex-)board member then took the next step by bringing these illegalities
and potential illegalities to the attention of the relevant authorities.

9} The (ex-)board member then took the situation public.

One could castigate the (ex-)board member for 9} but I think one would be
missing several important points.

I} The chair of the board initiated and paid for an investigation which
committed crimes in pursuit of said investigation.

II} The shareholders have a legal right to know, and the board members have a
legal obligation to inform about any illegalities which take place in the

It looks to me like Mr. Perkins behaved in a completely ethical, morally correct
and totally above board manner on all counts.

'Ratting out' someone's illegal and unethical behaviour is not unethical nor

Any judge will tell you two different things:

a} Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law.

b} Just because 'everybody does it' is also no excuse for breaking the law.

The chair of the HP BoD caused/induced the law to be broken. It does not matter
whether or not she knew her hired agents were going to or realised afterwards
that they would break/broke the law nor that everyone else does it. Ultimate
responsibility lies with the HP board chair.

"The buck stops here."

That is the point of S-O.

Yes, the ethics of the original board member who leaked information to the press
are questionable. As a stock holder, I would probably vote him out.

But as I've iterated before and others have also iterated, The Ends Do NOT
Justify the Means.

As a stockholder, I would insist that someone exhibiting the chair's publically
proven unethical behaviour to be sumnmarily and immediately voted out of her
position. I'd further question the ethics of the remaining board members for not
following Mr. Perkins lead.

DRM - Degrading, Repulsive, Meanspirited 'Nuff Said.
FDA Warns Consumers Against Drinking High-Strength Hydrogen Peroxide.

[ Reply to This | # ]

AT&T also at fault
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 10:20 AM EDT
AT&T and the other phone companies will give out your info to anyone; they
don't care because they have no liability. Nothing is going to change until
they can be held accountable.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Verizon CEO
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 10:40 AM EDT
One aspect of this case has'nt been covered here. One of the directorsis
Lawrence T. Babbio, Jr.
(from hp web site)
Director since 2002
Mr. Babbio has served since 2000 as vice chairman and president of Verizon
Communications, Inc. (formerly Bell Atlantic Corporation). Mr. Babbio was a
director of Compaq from 1995 until its merger with HP in May 2002. Mr. Babbio is
also a director of ARAMARK Corporation. In 1997, he was elected president and
chief operating officer of Network Group and chairman of Global Wireless Group
of Bell Atlantic.

Apparently, Mr Babbio is insufficently enraged about the
deceptive procurement of telephone records to either speak out publicly, or
resign. It seems to me that there is a conflict of interest in his duties at
HP, and his position at Verizon.

[ Reply to This | # ]

HP's ethics
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 10:42 AM EDT

My brother worked for Compaq as an upper-executive-level manager. When the
merger with HP was announced, his assignment changed to "make this happen,
and make it work."

He got a personal pat on the back from a CEO-report and a big(!!) bonus for
doing just that. Then they laid him off about 8 months later.

Additionally, their printers come with half-empty ink cartridges, so you have to
buy the oh-so-expensive ink as soon as one color runs out, and the plan is for
that to happen Soon. And they've used chips and software in their ink
cartridges to make sure you can't use older cartridges, or non-OEM cartridges.

None of this is illegal, it's just nasty and unethical.

I wouldn't take an HP machine ( of any sort) as a gift, knowing what I know
about their business practices. None of this news surprises me at all.

I have a Canon Pixma printer, that has multiple ink tanks, so you only have to
replace the empty one. And their ink tanks are just that - plastic bottles
filled with ink. Plus the photos print better, just as a bonus. Everything
about the printer is an improvement over a comparable HP machine.

Anonymous to protect my brother, but a long-time member.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • HP's ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 01:04 PM EDT
    • HP's ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 03:26 PM EDT
  • HP's ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 01:24 PM EDT
    • HP's ethics - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 02:38 PM EDT
  • Half-filled cartridge is NOT unethical - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 01:21 PM EDT
Pretexting is already illegal
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 11:08 AM EDT
Here is the FTC website

[ Reply to This | # ]

journalists and others, get a prepaid cell phone
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 11:54 AM EDT
Phone records are accessible, one way or another, like it or not.

If you value your privacy, buy a prepaid phone (T-Mobile is pretty cheap,
usually can find one for about $100.) Use cash. Buy prepaid cards $100 at a
time at Walgreen's, pay cash, they are good for a year.

If you travel internationally, use mobile kangaroo or other service to unlock it
(about $40), and buy SIM chips for the local country. They are available
on-line for almost every country.

Completely untraceable. Total privacy.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Phone records
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 01:14 PM EDT
People who leak information need to be punished. How do you find that info, ask
the reporter who told them & they'll laugh at you. They hide behind freedom
of the press & confidential sources & other bs. Dig up their phone
records & see who called them. That'll take care of it. I completely support
doing this.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Phone records - Authored by: PJ on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 01:59 PM EDT
  • The irony - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 08 2006 @ 04:20 PM EDT
Not only is it not getting smaller, the HP story is getting bigger - Updated 2Xs
Authored by: blacklight on Saturday, September 09 2006 @ 09:38 AM EDT
I wonder if impersonatinating someone could be construed as identity theft. If I
claim to be B, amd I not stealing B's identity already? If I claim to be B in
order to access B's personal information, am I not stealing access to that
information? And if I claim to be B in order to access B's information because I
was paid to do so (if I weren't paid, I wouldn't do it), then am I not stealing
B's identity to steal access to B's information for my own personal gain?

HP might be right that there are no laws against pretexting at the moment, but a
range of statutes about ID theft, invasion of privacy, and cracking computer
access should apply, do apply or could be made to apply.

Know your enemies well, because that's the only way you are going to defeat
them. And know your friends even better, just in case they become your enemies.

[ Reply to This | # ]

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