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| MP3 of MA Meeting on Open Formats |
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Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 02:35 AM EDT
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I found this fascinating. The Massachusetts Technology Leadership Council (an organization formed by a combination of the Massachusetts Software Council and the New England Business and Technology Association) had a meeting last Friday with Massachusetts Secretary of Administration & Finance Eric Kriss, CIO of the Commonwealth Peter Quinn, representatives from Microsoft, IBM, Adobe, Sun, and other companies and groups to discuss the XML/Open Document format decision and to provide feedback to Massachusetts. Dan Bricklin taped it, and he has made it available on his website as an MP3. He does a brief introduction, then Secretary Kriss talks for about 20 minutes, and then Q&A starts at about 21 minutes in or so. The meeting lasts for 2 hours. The first time Stuart McKee of Microsoft (National Technology Officer) speaks is at 26:15. Microsoft is clearly not happy, and they ask what would make it possible to get added to the list. Kriss tells them clearly. They don't seem to understand the answer. Bricklin requests that you right-click the MP3 to download it and listen to it after it has downloaded, as opposed to just clicking on it and listening. Update: Tim Bray has posted a participant's notes from the meeting. Also, I have permission to do a transcript. If anyone is in a position to help with that, especially the interaction between Microsoft and Kriss, that would be very helpful.
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| Authored by: Leccy on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 02:49 AM EDT |
Please put your corrections here.
---
To err is human.
To really mess it up takes a software patent[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Leccy on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 02:51 AM EDT |
Please include HTML links and a brief description of the content of the page
being linked.
---
To err is human.
To really mess it up takes a software patent[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Dilbert - Authored by: eibhear on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 04:39 AM EDT
- Office 12 UI - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 07:32 AM EDT
- Office 12 UI - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:27 AM EDT
- Office 12 UI - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:49 AM EDT
- Office 12 UI - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 01:31 PM EDT
- Eye Candy - Authored by: Bill R on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 01:35 PM EDT
- Office 12 UI - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 03:34 PM EDT
- Office 12 UI - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 04:25 PM EDT
- Microsoft and UIs - remember Visio? - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 23 2005 @ 03:26 PM EDT
- Warning Bells ? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:27 AM EDT
- Boies 'plays a special brand of hardball' - Authored by: turing_test on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:37 AM EDT
- Debunking Enderle's FUD - Authored by: _Arthur on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 12:35 PM EDT
- Judge tosses defamation suit vs. Novell - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 01:10 PM EDT
- Did You Say "Intellectual Property"? (OT) - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 23 2005 @ 06:14 AM EDT
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- WSJ: ... Microsoft Changes How It Builds Software - Authored by: jto on Friday, September 23 2005 @ 12:52 PM EDT
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| Authored by: dfarning on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 03:49 AM EDT |
What is the world is this Dan Bricklin fellow thinking? Doesn’t he realize
that:
A. open standards are bad
and
B. Decisions made in the open are even worse
Really Dan, thanks for putting this up. I am working on getting the local
public school system to refrain from using non-open standards when sending
information home to parents. I can’t see why parents need to buy propriety
products because the school system gets them at a steep discount. In Total Cost
of Ownership studies, we should start including the cost of our clients or
customers buying software they don’t otherwise need to read our output. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Halmonster on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 04:16 AM EDT |
Anyone ever hear of a Free audio format called Ogg Vorbis?
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http://www.BuiltOnLinux.com[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 04:52 AM EDT |
| MP3 Royalty Rates
(mp3licensing.com) [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 05:13 AM EDT |
...was totally full of weasel words, and avoided questions like Agent Smith
dodging bullets.
It was actually painful listening to people trying to pin him down...[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 07:53 AM EDT |
| If you think the MS response was bad what about this garbage [ Reply to This | # ]
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- MP3 of MA Meeting on Open Formats - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:15 AM EDT
- Its more AdTI like stuff - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:18 AM EDT
- MP3 of MA Meeting on Open Formats - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:20 AM EDT
- with a name like that alarm bells ring - Authored by: globularity on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:24 AM EDT
- MP3 of MA Meeting on Open Formats - Authored by: Rasyr on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:36 AM EDT
- The original isn't up on their website yet - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:37 AM EDT
- Since when did the Citizens Against Government Waste become IT experts? - Authored by: clark_kent on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 10:45 AM EDT
- Ha! This is the "Dead people support MS" group - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 11:36 AM EDT
- MP3 of MA Meeting on Open Formats - Authored by: tknarr on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 11:59 AM EDT
- Tax Returns from CAGW spill details - Authored by: stats_for_all on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 12:51 PM EDT
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:34 AM EDT |
| link
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MadScientist [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: talexb on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 08:53 AM EDT |
Bricklin requests that you right-click the MP3 to download it and listen
to it after it has downloaded, as opposed to just clicking on it and
listening.
Huh?!?? Don't they do the same thing?
Left
clicking downloads the file to a temporary file and launches the appropriate
handler for that type of file; right clicking and doing a Save As downloads the
file to a location you specify .. then you launch the appropriate
application
Either way, the file gets downloaded -- so how does that save
Mr. Bricklin's server?
-- Puzzled in Toronto -- [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:05 AM EDT |
Dan could save himself a lot of bandwidth and the rest of us a lot of time if he
posted a torrent instead of a raw mp3. There will probably be thousands of
people downloading this thing.[ Reply to This | # ]
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- MAKE A TORRENT - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:55 AM EDT
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| Authored by: huey on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:07 AM EDT |
I'm enjoying listening to the recording, but I was encouraged to know that the
MA leadership really gets it. About 41 minutes into the recording, MA Secretary
Kriss, I believe it was, said they estimate it will cost them $50M to upgrade to
the latest MS Office, and expect the cost if they were
"hypothetically" to go to Open Office would be $5M, a 10x
differential. He also proclaims it's not a cost procurement issue.
Maybe MS won't be able to buy their way in by offering a 90% discount!
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Matt C on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:13 AM EDT |
"would mandate that state agencies use
only open source and open standard software by January 1, 2007"
Is this true. OS software AND standards? I thought it was just standards...[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Stumbles on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:48 AM EDT |
Hmm, I've never really given it much thought but that was some
interesting information from the Adobe guy about the PDF format.
I now understand why Mass has included it on "the list".
---
You can tune a piano but you can't tune a fish.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:51 AM EDT |
For those of us who are at work and can't listen to audio (no speakers), is
there any chance someone or a group of someones would be willing to create a
text transcript?
I realize it would probably be a lot of work (if it's a two-hour recording), but
might be nice if someone is up to it. Maybe a full transcript might be too much,
but perhaps someone could transcribe a few minutes of the most *interesting*
bits? (Yeah, I realize that is a rather subjective determination - I'll let the
transcribers decide what they think is most interesting).
I'll probably just listen to it (or parts of it), tonight at home. If no one
else has gotten around to it, maybe I'll even transcribe bits. If anyone *is*
planning to do transcription, maybe we could coordinate an effort (that is, let
me know what 10 or 15 minute segment to transcribe [e.g. from 00:25.00 -
00:40.00]).
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: clark_kent on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 10:53 AM EDT |
"Microsoft is clearly not happy, and they ask what would make it possible
to get added to the list."
Of course, let us just forget what we were all talking about in the past about
Microsoft incompatability. Do they get it? They were already told. It is THAT
Black and White! Support Open Formats, support OASIS specs, do what the customer
wants, or get out! Don't push people around Microsoft. Your time is up!
Hey, Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, you hear me? Your philosophy about IT stinks
and I don't care HOW RICH you are!
In the name of Jesus Christ, I condemn Microsoft's monopolistic actions.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Stumbles on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 10:59 AM EDT |
Well it sounded like to me nearly everyone there understood
where Mass is coming from, what their goals are and what Mass
means by the words they use. There was some quibbling about
some terminology and standards use but overall I think the
participants got it.
As usual, it sounded like to me that Microsoft is the only one that
that by my view still insists their technology is the only way. And
that some how it would cost them buckets and buckets of money
to meet the standard. Oddly enough if XML is chosen they already
use that so I fail to see their problem. Excluding of course the
problem being they are not currently "on the list".
Pj is certainly right. How much more clearer can Mass be when
they itemized the 3 things that Microsoft needed to do?
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You can tune a piano but you can't tune a fish.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 11:06 AM EDT |
The final version of the Massachusetts policy has been posted on
http://mass.gov/Aitd/ along with public comments and FAQ.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 12:27 PM EDT |
I wonder if M$ will try to isolate Mass by going out to
all Mass neighbors and the Fed to make sure something
similar doesn't happen there? It seems like a childish
thing to do but it kind of fits M$ mode of operation.
I'm sure other states are watching to see what happens.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 03:00 PM EDT |
| I sense an impending demand increase for chairs... [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: darkonc on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 04:01 PM EDT |
| During the next election, the government could make available, to every single
voter in the state, a CD with free (as in both beer and freedom) software for
playing with the Open Document format -- such as Open Office, Koffice,
etc.).
The total cost of such an initiative would be under $6Million The
cost of upgrading to the new version of office 12, and the consequent OS and
hardware upgrades, along with training, etc. was estimated at about
$50Million. ---
Powerful, committed communication. Touching the jewel
within each person and bringing it to life.. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: SpaceLifeForm on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 04:39 PM EDT |
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Link
Slightly different, but just as symbolic.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 05:41 PM EDT |
I'm sorry I didn't have time to also produce an Ogg Vorbis copy yesterday when I
posted the original MP3. I understand the irony of using only MP3. My version of
Audition doesn't support Ogg. Early this morning I loaded the MP3 into Audacity
and saved it as a ".ogg". I was out all day at a client and didn't have time to
check it out, upload it, and update the wiki until just now. But now it's up.
So, there is an Ogg Vorbis format version of the meeting available, with a link
on the wiki page along with the MP3 one. (The Ogg file is a bit bigger due to my
techniques.)
For those who don't have time to listen to the whole
thing, Tim Bray has a report about the meeting on his website: "New England Town Meeting". It has an attendee's impressions in great
detail.
-Dan Bricklin[ Reply to This | # ]
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- License? - Authored by: jbn on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 06:42 PM EDT
- Compare - Authored by: SpaceLifeForm on Friday, September 23 2005 @ 12:31 AM EDT
- License? - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 23 2005 @ 09:00 AM EDT
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| Authored by: SilverWave on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 07:04 PM EDT |
A big thanks for recommending the mp3 pj.
The whole OpentDocument rationale.. well argued and explained from the State
side, unexpected reservations from Novell.
Powerful arguments for the freedom to control of your own data.
Microsoft PR guy very quiet, just a advert for the new Office and a dig about
IP.
Oh and a BIG hint to MS about Office costing x10 as much as OpenOffice.org from
State.
Massachusetts must be commended for their commitment to doing the right thing
and are now on the way to being a poster child for open democratic government in
action.
Oh and a fun game to play is to count the number of MS toadies/plants... I count
5, how many did you get?
---
"They [each] put in one hour of work,
but because they share the end results
they get nine hours... for free"
Firstmonday 98 interview with Linus Torvalds[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Ed L. on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 07:06 PM EDT |
| I realise its a bit hazardous undertaking to flatter an attorney's ego -- even a
retired one such as Marbux. Nonetheless, reading through the FAQ on the
MA aitd website
left me with the uneasy
impression that Mr. Kriss and Mr. Quinn had an exteremely close grip on the
licensing issues revolving about Microsoft's Office XML formats. Almost as if
they had actually read that lengthy
anal
ysis
submitted to them by Marbux last spring (or perhaps a different though
identical one prepared by someone else).
Do ya think its
possible?
:-)
---
"Radio Shack -- When you've got the answers,
we've got the parts." -usually satisfied customer [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 11:25 PM EDT |
This is tooo precious! ;-)..
The Mass AITD site has an Open
Document format of MS's comments. What Irony!
bobby [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 11:52 PM EDT |
| I've contacted Dan Bricklin and he doesn't see a problem with posting this as an
BitTorrent.
You can find it here
Download and share. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: DMF on Friday, September 23 2005 @ 02:50 PM EDT |
I predict that once the open format policy is officially adopted (and that may
yet be a long and treacherous process), Microsoft will respond with a special
"government" version of Office effectively available only to
Massachusetts. It will contain a version of Word that can save in Opendoc
format, possibly to a special "archive" while maintaining the working
edition in the same old proprietary format. (This will cause the effective
failure of the Opendoc mandate since it requires workers to proactively maintain
the archive.) It will unbundle enough froth to "let" them offer a
substantial discount when coupled with a long-term update plan like SA.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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