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| Largest Bank in China Switches From SCO Unix to Linux |
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Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:20 AM EDT
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In China, the largest bank, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC), has decided to switch from SCO Unix to Linux, and others are expected to follow shortly: The shift to Linux is driven by the banks' need for better software performance and better vendor support, said Nielse Jiang, an analyst at IDC in Beijing. Currently, most of these banks are running their applications on SCO Unix and they are looking to upgrade their systems. "In China, SCO Unix offers very weak support for customers; they have so few employees," he said.
That's 20,000 branches that will be using Linux servers.
The bank serves 100 million individuals and 8.1 million corporate accounts. They have 390,000 employees, all of whom will now be using Turbolinux 7 DataServer for the next 3 years. The article quotes a Turbolinux representative, who says it's the largest rollout of Linux yet in China: CBC is not the only one of China's four main banks to have decided to deploy Linux. For example, Bank of China has deployed Linux distributions from Turbolinux and Red Hat in regional projects.
More banks are expected to follow ICBC's lead with large-scale Linux deployments. Agricultural Bank of China, another of the country's top four banks, is expected to announce within the next month a tender for a Linux site licence that is similar to the ICBC project, he said.
The fourth major bank, China Construction Bank, is also expected to announce sometime this year plans to move its IT systems to Linux, according to China's state-run media. I read the article and it hit me: all of Microsoft's machinations about standards, like their licenses that won't allow the GPL in, are for nothing, longterm. The rest of the world must at least be able to communicate with China, because they need their business. It's that simple. So Linux adoption there is a guarantee that the effort to isolate GNU/Linux systems is doomed. That's a pleasant thought, don't you think? (Unless you are Microsoft, who will find itself obliged to compete fairly, for once.) Let's see how they do on an even playing field. The EU Commission is unhappy about Microsoft's compliance to date, speaking of an even playing field, and they threaten further fines and say they will pursue "formal steps" to ensure compliance, if necessary. As the BBC subheading puts it, the EU "has warned Microsoft it could incur additional fines unless it makes more effort to stop abusing its dominant position."
Meanwhile, take a look at this press release about a conference SCO will be presenting at: NYSSA Presents 2005 New Internet Leaders: Emerging Technology Small Caps
NEW YORK, Apr 28, 2005 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- The New York Society of Security Analysts (NYSSA) will present its 2005 New Internet Leaders: Emerging Technology Small Caps Conference on May 26, 2005.
Many tasks that are integral to work and personal life--shopping, banking, dating, research, and others--are done online. Although a few years ago the Internet industry was in a shambles, its influence on society and business has not lessened. Since the end of 2003, the Internet has been one of the best-performing market sectors.
This conference will provide a unique forum in which to study emerging small- and mid-cap Internet companies that have solid business and financial fundamentals. Each company featured is a leader in its category--profitable, and experiencing significant growth in revenues and/or earnings.
The following companies are presenting: CyberSource ; 8x8, Inc. ; GuruNet Corporation ; Internet Capital Group ; I-Sector Corporation ; Pacific Internet ; The SCO Group ; and S1 Corporation .
The conference will be held on May 26, 2005, 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., at the Harvard Club, 27 West 44th Street, New York, NY. Early registration by May 12, $195 NYSSA members, $295 nonmembers. Prices $70 higher after May 12. Registration deadline is May 19. No charge for press with credentials. A complete agenda is available at http://www.nyssa.org/Template.cfm? Section=calendar& template= /ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=4921. [pj: I had to put spaces into the url, because Gecko browsers were having trouble with the page rendering. So if you wish to visit the url, remove the spaces please.]
About NYSSA
NYSSA, established in 1937, is the premier independent forum for the exchange of information among investment decision-makers. A not-for-profit educational organization with over 9,000 members, NYSSA is committed to the promotion of best practices and the highest professional and ethical standards in the investment industry. NYSSA is the largest of the more than 127 societies worldwide that make up CFA Institute, which has more than 70,000 members.
SOURCE: The New York Society of Security Analysts Um . . . "solid business and financial fundamentals . . . profitable, and experiencing significant growth in revenues and/or earnings"? SCO? Our SCO? A "leader" in its category? What category would that be? Nuisance lawsuits, perchance? By that logic, they're a leader in security too. Not. Personally, I'd be intrigued to learn how they ended up being invited. Whose decision was that? I hope some of you are able to attend, especially if you work for the SEC. If you do attend, please send us a report. If they allow taping, so much the better. I'm sure we'd all be edified to learn how they managed to achieve solid business and financial fundamentals.
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| Authored by: Hiro Protagonist on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:56 AM EDT |
Corrections go here Please.
---
I Grok... Therefore... I am.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: fLameDogg on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:57 AM EDT |
You can make links clickable:
<a href="http://www.example.com/">Like this</a>
Be sure to set Post Mode to HTML, and don't forget to preview.
---
fD[ Reply to This | # ]
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- [OT] China is one to watch - Authored by: fLameDogg on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:15 AM EDT
- [OT] OT Comments Here Please - clickable links example - Authored by: webster on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:33 AM EDT
- [OT] SCO Customer Support - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:41 AM EDT
- [OT] Debian wins Munich Linux deal - Authored by: DFJA on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 12:24 PM EDT
- [OT] Court(s) Schedule(s)? - Authored by: frk3 on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 01:42 PM EDT
- Scott McNealy is considering a plan - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:28 PM EDT
- [OT] Movie this weekend? - Authored by: frk3 on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:02 PM EDT
- Microsoft Reaches Out To Open Source Community -- All Talk? - Authored by: rm6990 on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:23 PM EDT
- Microsoft Reaches Out To Open Source Community -- All Talk? - Authored by: frk3 on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:39 PM EDT
- Microsoft Reaches Out To Open Source Community -- All Talk? - Authored by: Weeble on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:42 PM EDT
- multi front offense - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 04:31 PM EDT
- Is shaking down companies that use free software part of this "outreach"? - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 04:39 PM EDT
- Microsoft Reaches Out To Open Source Community -- All Talk? - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:01 PM EDT
- Use open standards, don't try and destroy them. - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:17 PM EDT
- Microsoft Reaches Out To Open Source Community -- All Talk? - Authored by: Latesigner on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:43 PM EDT
- Microsoft Reaches Out To Open Source Community -- All Talk? - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 06:50 PM EDT
- Or In This Case... - Authored by: Weeble on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:45 PM EDT
- Alternative - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:51 PM EDT
- OR - Authored by: tyche on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:28 PM EDT
- Microsoft Reaches Out To Open Source Community -- All Talk? - Authored by: digger53 on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:43 PM EDT
- Paul Graham's pro-SCO piece part of pattern - Authored by: rjamestaylor on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:00 PM EDT
- [OT] FUD from Paul Murphy - Authored by: Ted Powell on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:00 PM EDT
- Gateway Inc. may be sanctioned for missing evidence - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 06:03 PM EDT
- The SCO Trial Through A New Lens - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 06:24 PM EDT
- what's happened to linuxbusinessweek? - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 06:25 PM EDT
- [OT] G2 motion denied - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 07:03 PM EDT
- More FUD from Gartner group - Authored by: sela on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 07:06 PM EDT
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| Authored by: gbl on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:01 AM EDT |
migrating them to Linux was determined to be an easier upgrade
path than switching the applications to Windows
Yes it
would be.
But would even considering Windows be sensible? Or was this just a
response to a clueless question?
---
If you love some code, set it
free. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: fudisbad on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:07 AM EDT |
Darl and Steve is probably thinking, "Must be those evil
communists..."
---
See my bio for copyright details re: this post.
Darl McBride, show your evidence![ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:14 AM EDT |
The shift to Linux is driven by the banks' need for [...] better
vendor support
Heh! Thats really twisting the knife. Suck it
up SCO.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: RealProgrammer on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:14 AM EDT |
Large institutions know that they save big money using Free software. The
question has always been about support - where do you go when there's a problem?
In the past using a relatively small Unix vendor made sense for a big company -
they had lots of leverage. I suppose there are lots of Linux consultants in
China now - or there soon will be.
The balance has long since tipped in favor of Linux for Unix deployments.
TSCOG will blame IBM.
Microsoft will try to ignore this publicly. Failing that, they'll say it just
follows the trend of the Unix market consolidating around Linux, with Linux
increases coming from proprietary losses.
But you know they wanted the deal.
(As an aside: a bank with 100 million customers? Wow.)
---
(I'm not a lawyer, but I know right from wrong)[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Sign of the times, and predicted spin - Authored by: radix2 on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:26 AM EDT
- The Death Spiral phase - Authored by: roadfrisbee on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:32 AM EDT
- Sign of the times, and predicted spin - Authored by: Juggler on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 12:06 PM EDT
- Companys of that size could have their own OS - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 12:25 PM EDT
- Sign of the times, and predicted spin - Authored by: Toon Moene on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 01:55 PM EDT
- Largest Linux Consultant in China - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:59 PM EDT
- TSCOG will blame IBM. - Authored by: emmenjay on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:59 PM EDT
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| Authored by: blacklight on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:23 AM EDT |
I see the decision by ICBC's management to migrate from SCOG UNIX to Linux as
daring (but every migration is in a sense daring in that those responsible for
the planning and implementation do break out in a sweat). On the other hand, it
is definitely realistic and pragmatic in view of the alternatives available,
especially the commercial ones.
The success of this migration is that much more likely since SCOG UNIX depends
so heavily on Open Source apps and utilities for any kind of functionality. And
while tons of commecial software vendors, especially those who sell
enterprise-scalable apps, have ported to Linux, I have yet to hear about
commercial software vendors who are porting to SCOG UNIX these days.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: kccp on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:32 AM EDT |
The rest of the world must at least be able to communicate with China,
because they need their business. It's that simple.
This statement
is true but that does not mean that other computers will have to use Linux to
communicate with the Linux computers in China. Isn't that what standards are
for?
A major consideration for the Chinese government and companies
(many companies are still owned by the government) in choosing Linux is
security. This is not security as in keeping out hackers, but security as in
the operating system sending sensitive data back to Redmond or the CIA. They
can never be sure that Microsoft did not put in some code in Windows that will
do that - they tried to send back to Redmond what software a user is running,
didn't they? And then there was this suspicious antitrust settlement, who knows
what Microsoft has agreed to do under the table.
With Linux, they can
whittled it down to only the modules that they need and then have someone comb
through the source code to make sure that it will not be sending anything back -
even if they do not trust the open source community to kick out such code a long
time ago.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 10:36 AM EDT |
| CYBS--Major position by long-time SCOX cheerleader Jonathan Cohen. CYBS
founding director Steve Novak is a business associate of Cohen and Charles
Royce (Royce funds) as part of the founding triumvirate of the holding
company
TICC. Novak's name and private hedge fund, Palladio Capital,
occur in SCOX
press releases.
SONE-- $700K share position by Jonathan Cohen
ICGE
-- $663k share position by Jonathan Cohen. Cohen, Royce, Novak and
the
ICGE CEO have just issued a IPO for another holding company, TAC. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: clueless on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:02 AM EDT |
Tell TSCOG to put it on their FUD
page.
-clueless
---
A farewell to silly .sigs [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:04 AM EDT |
Apparantly it will be Darl himself making the presentation.
Their justification for including SCO seems to be this:
"The SCO Group is the owner of the UNIX operating system and a leading
provider of UNIX-based solutions."[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: fxbushman on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:13 AM EDT |
| I read the article and it hit me: all of Microsoft's machinations about
standards, like their licenses that won't allow the GPL in, are for nothing,
longterm.
Absolutely. By cutting itself off from Open Source and by
attempting to impose lock-in by means of proprietary formats, Microsoft is
driving away customers in hordes. What is obvious to most of us here, that these
practices are unappealing, is also becoming clear to the suits who run
corporations. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:29 AM EDT |
...and "independent" TCO studies.
I would guess that banks are pretty good with figures of that nature.
OK, I know that one of the reasons for choosing Linux was that their
applications could be ported easily, but, in a deployment of this size if the
TCO was so bad they would have redeveloped.
jaydee not logged in[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:32 AM EDT |
This works out perfect for SCO. Now Darl can add China to the list of external
forces to blame for his inability to manage a company.
Darl: "Don't blame me for the dismal performance of the company. Even
though I am CEO, it was {Linux/IBM/Groklaw/China/Wicked Witch & Flying
Monkeys} that are responsible for our poor performance."[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: pooky on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:39 AM EDT |
I wonder what type of a hit to SCO's proft this represents, it sounds like a
bunch of licenses just went down the tube.
-pooky
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Many Bothans died to bring us this information.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:52 AM EDT |
Is anyone at all surprised by the Chinese moving to Linux?
Did anyone here really think that they would pay MS's licensing fees or put up
with all the encumbrances?
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: micheal on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 11:57 AM EDT |
I noticed that there are a lot of small SCOX trades beginning about 1:30
yesterday and continuing today. My tinfoil hat thought there must be something
in the air. Now I think I know what it is - China.
---
LeRoy
If I have anything to give, made of this life I live, it is this song, which I
have made. Now in your keeping it is laid.
Anon[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 12:06 PM EDT |
When a company decides to spend more money on the lawyers than on costomers and
product the end is not too far away.
Will MS have to eventually make the same choice? Support the lawyers to maintain
their monopoly or support their customers and products to earn their market
share fair and square?
Yeah, right.... [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: ceolson on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 12:16 PM EDT |
"a leadership position within a unique niche"
SCO is a leader in their unique position. While most of don't agree with the
position that they are in, they are the only one in that position(s), so by
default they are leading.
We just hope that the leadership ends soon, before they influence any others to
follow!
Craig[ Reply to This | # ]
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- A Proven Leader - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:43 PM EDT
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| Authored by: Nick_UK on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 12:21 PM EDT |
Damn clever, these Chinese.
Nick ;-) [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 01:19 PM EDT |
| New York Society of Security Analysts (NYSSA)
Don't take these people
so seriously. People who understand the markets well enough to make money out of
them, make money out of them. They don't take jobs as "security analysts". Why
would they, when they can become rich by trading in the markets? Jesse Livermore
and Warren Buffet never worked as "security analysts".
It follows that
you shouldn't listen to a "security analyst" even in his/her area of expertise.
The job title is pretty much a badge of incompetence. [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:38 PM EDT |
Autozone got sued by SCO as an ex-SCO Customer accusing them of illegally using
SCO's Unixware binaries to run apps on Linux... so I'm wondering when ICBC will
be getting a demand to certify compliance with their SCO-Unixware licence...[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:54 PM EDT |
Wonder if this had anything to do with it?
A couple small trades at about 10:45 and 11 made the difference, dropped from
about 3.85 to about 3.61 or so.
Last trade back at 3.80 as I post this.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=1d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 02:55 PM EDT |
Does anyone recall when Darl made some comments and sent a letter to the U.S.
Congress stating, more or less, how GNU/Linux could be obtained by countries
that are dangerous to the U.S.? Anybody remember that?
Well geewhiz, it now turns out that the PRC -- a communist -- country had been
using SCO Unix for quite sometime. But that is Ok?
I do hope that IBM can make some hay out of that.
krp[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 03:44 PM EDT |
I know a little bit about what's going on with Linux in China's banking sector.
Yet another dimension to this story is that China's banks can standardize on
Linux across platforms, not just the very few that proprietary vendors like
Microsoft and SCO support. And that includes the biggest, baddest Linux servers
on the planet: zSeries mainframes. (Mainframes are absolutely critical in the
financial industry because they uniquely provide instruction execution
integrity.) So whether it's the smallest branch office server or the biggest
backend processing for 100,000,000+ customers, Linux goes everywhere.[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:23 PM EDT |
20,000 branches * 12 pcs/branch(est.) * $700 license fee/pc = $168,000,000.00!
Yay! This means SCOX'll have enough cash to make it to a jury trial! I can't
wait to read Groklaw's reports from the trial...
As far as conference attendance goes:
"The conference will be held on May 26, 2005, 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., at
the Harvard Club, 27 West 44th Street, New York, NY. Early registration by May
12, $195 NYSSA members, $295 nonmembers. Prices $70 higher after May 12.
Registration deadline is May 19. No charge for press with credentials. A
complete agenda is available at
http://www.nyssa.org/Template.cfm?Section=calendar&template=/
ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=4921. (Due to its length,
this URL may need to be copied/pasted into your Internet browser's address
field. Remove the extra space if one exists.)"
bkd[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 05:55 PM EDT |
I think you might have missed one of the more obvious questions. After
writing (well, quoting):
``A not-for-profit educational
organization with over 9,000 members, NYSSA is committed to the promotion of
best practices and the highest professional and ethical standards in the
investment industry.'' (emphasis mine)
you
wondered:
``I'm sure we'd all be edified to learn how they
managed to achieve solid business and financial
fundamentals.''
I'd ask: ``Why does this organization
think SCO represents any sort of 'best practices' or 'highest professional and
ethical standards' and would want anything to do with them?'' Sort of makes
you wonder who are the major players in that organization, eh?
(Personally,
I'm hoping SCO is involved purely for comic relief.) [ Reply to This | # ]
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- Say, PJ... - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 06:18 PM EDT
- Say, PJ... - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 06:22 PM EDT
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| Authored by: imroy on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 06:53 PM EDT |
| I'm more impressed by the figure of 390,000 employees. I live near a regional
Australian city with a population of 32,000. To think that this bank employs
over twelve times as many people as live in my town just floors me. That's my
"wow". [ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 07:19 PM EDT |
G2's motion is DENIED
Additionally in the order, "The court has set forth requirements and
admonitions to minimize the risk of the parties improperly filing documents
under seal.", the main consequences of which are quickly summarized:
1. Counsel for IBM and SCO can jointly agree to unseal any previously filed
documents by 27 May
2. All future dispositive motions must have a redacted version. For exhibits,
any non-confidential exhibits to these must be publicly filed.
3. From 27 May, attorney fees if one side successfully challenges the other's
confidential designation and the other side didn't withdraw this designation
after a 10 day period.
4. If the court happens to run across documents (in the regular cause of
business), which look like they shouldn't be sealed, the court may hold hearings
to show cause why they were under seal, and may impose monetary sanctions for
any improperly sealed documents.
Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:08 PM EDT |
"The rest of the world must at least be able to communicate with China,
because they need their business. It's that simple."
The US government is currently negotiating with Canada and Mexico to clamp down
bordercrossings. Business travellers and business goods are being offered
expedited clearance. You and I wait in line to be searched. They are waved
through with a deferential bow.
A few governments and corporations need to communicate with China. They..
governments, corporations, and China would rather the rest of us not
communicate.
Microsoft and the like hope to impose their hegemony by mecanism such as TRIPS.
China obviously believes it can resist such pressure. Many European citizens,
although not their governing bureaucrats, seem to think so too,
Microsoft can wait for China. It is hardly likely to survive long, if it loses
Europe.
The rest of us know that software will flourish where Linux is legal and patents
are not.
_We_ need to be able to communicate with China. Hardly any other actors need us
to be able to communicate. Indeed Microsoft and our governments prefer that we
don't.
[ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: Tufty on Friday, April 29 2005 @ 09:29 PM EDT |
Like I've been saying, the implosion is comming. As SCO shrinks and fears
increase, customers will not want to do business with them.
---
There has to be a rabbit down this rabbit hole somewhere![ Reply to This | # ]
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| Authored by: timycc on Saturday, April 30 2005 @ 12:21 AM EDT |
Losing customer this size should be a major loss to any company. Even IBM can
not stand it. However, it seems Darl et al have abandoned their customers long
ago that it makes no difference to them.
Just think the great opportunity for SCO that might exist. When SCO was still
Caldera, a Linux company. Isn't this the event all its dream is about? Taking
over oldSCO with its customers like Chinese banks, persuading them to convert to
Linux, and the growth... Having this customer and let the chance slip is great
sin. Why people would choose to be a cheap lier than pursuing such obvious
opportunities is beyond any imagination.[ Reply to This | # ]
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- Hah! - Authored by: mscibing on Saturday, April 30 2005 @ 04:06 PM EDT
- Hah! - Authored by: erehwon on Sunday, May 01 2005 @ 05:09 PM EDT
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| Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, April 30 2005 @ 12:35 AM EDT |
See on
http://www.sco.com.cn
A big banner - click on:
http://www.sco.com/scoip/
SCO speaks for itself:
-old Producs
-no or slow security upgrades
-no support
-no future
-and SCO IP is the only thing SCO cares about.
*g*
Everybody still using SCO must be stupid.
rob[ Reply to This | # ]
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