decoration decoration
Stories

GROKLAW
When you want to know more...
decoration
For layout only
Home
Archives
Site Map
Search
About Groklaw
Awards
Legal Research
Timelines
ApplevSamsung
ApplevSamsung p.2
ArchiveExplorer
Autozone
Bilski
Cases
Cast: Lawyers
Comes v. MS
Contracts/Documents
Courts
DRM
Gordon v MS
GPL
Grokdoc
HTML How To
IPI v RH
IV v. Google
Legal Docs
Lodsys
MS Litigations
MSvB&N
News Picks
Novell v. MS
Novell-MS Deal
ODF/OOXML
OOXML Appeals
OraclevGoogle
Patents
ProjectMonterey
Psystar
Quote Database
Red Hat v SCO
Salus Book
SCEA v Hotz
SCO Appeals
SCO Bankruptcy
SCO Financials
SCO Overview
SCO v IBM
SCO v Novell
SCO:Soup2Nuts
SCOsource
Sean Daly
Software Patents
Switch to Linux
Transcripts
Unix Books

Gear

Groklaw Gear

Click here to send an email to the editor of this weblog.


You won't find me on Facebook


Donate

Donate Paypal


No Legal Advice

The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

Here's Groklaw's comments policy.


What's New

STORIES
No new stories

COMMENTS last 48 hrs
No new comments


Sponsors

Hosting:
hosted by ibiblio

On servers donated to ibiblio by AMD.

Webmaster
Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 12:17 AM EST

The EU Commission decision is being leaked right and left. The word is that it's going to be a fine of approximately $610-614 million. Here is the story in Spanish. It points out that this is a record fine. But here's the real sting:

"As well as the fine, Microsoft is to be ordered to offer a version of its Windows operating system without Windows Media Player and to encourage computer makers to provide other audiovisual software.

"It must also license information to make the servers of rivals more compatible with Windows desktop machines."

This is historic. Unbundling. Microsoft told the Commission that they absolutely could not remove Media Player without breaking the operating system, and the Commission calmly said, in effect, "That's not true. Do it." (Real Networks' clever demo no doubt helped.) Naturally, Microsoft will appeal.

The Wall Street Journal [sub req'd] says Microsoft itself is leaking the news, along with their PR response:

"The commission decision, for example, would require Microsoft to make available to computer manufacturers a version of Windows without its Windows Media Player software. . . . The commission's jurisdiction for such an order is limited to Europe, Microsoft argues in the document being circulated to EU officials, while the company offered an alternative solution that would have applied world-wide. The document suggested Microsoft could ensure that three alternative media players could be preinstalled on some 300 million new PCs a year in Europe and 'in many other parts of the world,' thus 'ensuring that European and other consumers have ready access to a broad variety of media players without having to download them from the Internet.'"

Here is the statement from their associate general counsel for Europe Horacio Gutierrez:

"'We believe it's unprecedented and inappropriate for the Commission to impose a fine on a company's U.S. operations when those operations are already regulated by the U.S. government and the conduct at issue has been permitted by both the Department of Justice and the U.S. courts,' he said."

The Washington Post [reg. req'd] has Microsoft's reaction to the fine, which could have been much higher:

"Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith told The Washington Post that, based on the company's understanding of how the representatives arrived at the fine amount, it is 'stunned by the manner in which it was calculated.' He said the representatives apparently determined the amount by taking into account Microsoft's sales and the length of the case, and then doubling the total because Microsoft operates worldwide.

"Smith said that such an approach is 'unprecedented,' given that some of the conduct ruled unlawful in Europe is allowed in the United States under the terms of a 2001 antitrust settlement with the Justice Department. Europe accounts for about 30 percent of the company's business."

Over the weekend, Microsoft was predicting there'd be no fine. Now they say it is too high.

Well, let's by all means go by US courts. I'm sure Lindows would love to do that. After Lindows prevailed against Microsoft here in the US in the early jockeying in the trademark court case ( the court denied Microsoft's request for a preliminary injunction in the case and ruled in Lindows' favor [pdf] on two key points, now being appealed by Microsoft), Microsoft in December began forum shopping in Europe, eventually finding a court, in the Netherlands, willing to give them what the US court would not. Lindows stopped selling in that country last week.

The US judge said this:

"'Although Lindows.com certainly made a conscious decision to play with fire by choosing a product and company name that differs by only one letter from the world's leading computer software program,' Coughenour wrote, 'one could just as easily conclude that in 1983 Microsoft made an equally risky decision to name its product after a term commonly used in the trade to indicate the windowing capability of a graphical user interface.'

"The judge also said Microsoft has not stopped literally hundreds of other trademarks and products from using all or a portion of 'windows' in their names."

But in the Netherlands, the judge granted a preliminary injunction:

"The court then specified that Lindows could not be sold; Lindows.com's resellers would have eight days to return Lindows software they had on hand to Lindows.com and to remove Lindows from any machines they might have installed on it. . . .

"In a separate, prepared statement, Robertson said, 'It's clear that Microsoft is using their army of hundreds of attorneys and billions of dollars as a battering ram to destroy any company that promotes desktop Linux. They were unsuccessful in the U.S. with this tactic, so now they're resorting to picking countries where they will find a sympathetic court.'"

Lindows, in turn, has appealed to the original US court, asking the court to stop Microsoft from country shopping to try to get rulings in its favor behind the back of the US judge who already told them they were not entitled to the relief they are getting from European courts. The parties are set to tell it to the judge on Wednesday at an expedited hearing, and Lindows will ask the judge to declare an Amsterdam judge's preliminary injunction against it as unenforceable and non-recognizable.:

"In its motion, Lindows claimed that 'U.S. courts have the power to enjoin persons subject to their jurisdiction from prosecuting a foreign lawsuit.' Lindows said that the U.S.court has jurisdiction over Microsoft and may stop the company from 'filing and maintaining parallel foreign lawsuits.'"

So Microsoft finds itself schizophrenically arguing against itself that the EU Commission should stay out of its affairs, because MS is already being regulated by courts in the good old U S of A, while at the same time having to explain to a US judge on Wednesday why it went to other countries for relief the US judge had told them they were not entitled to.

You can read the Lindows court documents on their website. I recommend particularly their Opposition to Microsoft's PI Motion, near the bottom of the page, under the heading of Pre-Trial Motions, because it's the one that made it clear to me why Lindows, at least in the US, has more than a fighting chance to prevail. If you wish to brush up on your understanding of US trademark law, Bitlaw has some material. You'll notice that they are basing their use of the name Lindows on their belief that the term windows was already in use to describe graphical interfaces before Microsoft began using the term. It could be that some of you out there will be able to recall more examples of such generic use. You never know what piece of evidence will turn out to be the one that tips the scales.

Why is this worth watching? Aside from the obvious, because this is essentially what I believe Microsoft will try with patents and what SCO's underlying calculation is, that if you can win anywhere, in any venue in the world, you can shut down or slow down a company that you'd rather not be in fair-and-square competition with. IP laws as the weapon of choice. Here's a story about SCO's next steps in Australia. What they forgot is, GNU/Linux is an international community, and the whole world is watching.

Harvard's Berkman Center's Case in Point is still the SCO case. They are now asking participants in countries outside the US to answer some questions about the laws in their countries. This from their newsletter:

CASE IN POINT

The Case in Point is Caldera (SCO) v. IBM, also called the case against open-source.

See Groklaw's collection of case materials at http://www.groklaw.net/

Lest you think this case has nothing to do with you, note that SCO has now begun suing Linux users directly.  Last week, SCO announced that it had filed complaints against auto parts retailer AutoZone and automaker DaimlerChrysler.  CEO McBride is mimicking the Recording Industry Association of America's lawsuits against music file swappers, claiming, "It wasn't until the RIAA launched a series of lawsuits against end-users that the end users became fully educated."

Shankland, CNet News, "SCO suits target two big Linux users" at http://news.com.com/2100-1014-5168921.html?tag=nl

This month's discussion question is pitched to our non-US readers. Does your country recognize any "fair use" rights of end-users to make copies of software for the purpose of running applications? Will Linux users in your jurisdiction be influenced by SCO's litigation strategy in other nations?  How easy will it be for SCO to bring such an action in your country?

If you want to join in, and we hope that you will, please go to http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/suelinux/ where we are trying a new blog-style discussion application.

Case in Point is an ongoing series of discussions targeting particular legal issues raised as an actual case proceeds. For current summaries of the case and an archive of documents, see Groklaw, Legal Docs, SCO v. IBM, at http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=legal-docs and TwikiWeThey, SCO v. IBM, at http://sco.iwethey.org/

I'm not necessarily suggesting participation in the Berkman Case in Point, as that is up to you, but I do see that it's a good idea for LUGs and other FOSS organizations to be alert and prepared and to have legal counsel look at the local laws with regards to the GPL, copyright law, and consumer protection statutes. Microsoft, according to Lindows, blindsided them in the Netherlands. SCO has told us that they intend to file in countries around the world. Spain in particular appears to be in their sights. Forewarned is forearmed. If anyone wishes to contribute legal information about their country after they collect it from local attorneys, we can keep the collection on Groklaw, for everyone to use as handy reference material. Translation is not required, but it would be useful.


  


Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft | 407 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections Here Please
Authored by: PJ on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 01:02 AM EST
Please record my mistakes for posterity here, so I can find them easily.
Thanks.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 01:08 AM EST
A banner at the bottom of the screen on Bloomberg tv said it all..."MS
given a parking fine by the EU" Orpheus52

[ Reply to This | # ]

"schizophrenically"
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 01:33 AM EST
Please, let's not perpetuate the myth that
schizophrenia involves multiple personalities!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Lindows trademark infringement
Authored by: cheros on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 01:47 AM EST
I must say I'm in two minds about the Lindows case because (AFAIK) the company
is indeed riding on the trademarked "Windows" 'brand' (which IMO stand
for "it breaks easily and is hard to repair" ;-).

It doesn't matter if you like or dislike the company - I find the Lindows case
much less black and white than any other matters MS has been involved in.

IANAL etc, now donning flameproof underwear ;-)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: Anonymous Coward on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 02:01 AM EST
My prediction for the next version of Windows.
A so tightly integrated mediaplayer that you have to use it to browse files.
Now hope that the European court(s) will be through on this case before that M$
brings out their new OS. </sarcasm>

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: webster on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 02:22 AM EST
The European Commission is telling Microsoft to "innovate" the media
player out of its operating system.

---
webster

[ Reply to This | # ]

Can't see article until I...
Authored by: Night Flyer on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 02:34 AM EST
Used the link in the discussion article "a story about SCO's next steps in
Australia" and got to:

"http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3329521"

All the headers and advertisements were there, but there was no article in the
normal area (just a white expanse in the middle). Using the website search for
"SCO Seeks Licenses Down Under" led to:

"http://search.internet.com/www.internetnews.com"

Which is the teaser (the first sentence of this article and of other articles).
Clicking on this link gave the same result (blanked out article). Other
articles on this website show properly when I clicked on their links.

I got to read the article when I saved the
"http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3329521.html" to
disk from the teaser page, then called it up from my hard drive... Go figure.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Release of interface specs
Authored by: Peter Smith on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 02:42 AM EST
Isn't the real significance of the EU ruling the release of interface specs for
servers?

This would promote interoperability which is of course the last thing that MS
wants.

[ Reply to This | # ]

X-Windows
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 02:44 AM EST
I was using X-Windows long before MS-Windows came along. Lindows has no prefix, which the Microsoft one does. So it isn't just the exchange of a single letter, IMHO. If Microsoft can complain about Lindows, the the X Consortium can do the same to M$.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Missed their change to actually punish MS
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 02:49 AM EST
Too bad they cannot or will not impose the only sanction that would actually make a difference in promoting competition:

Stopping the force-feeding of Windows with new PC:s.

There should be a law that would REQUIRE the OS to be a separate item in the bill for a new PC. If someone does not want it, the PC must be cheaper by exactly the normal retail price of the OS. The OS could be pre-installed, no problem, but if the customer does not want it, the dealer must remove the OS and lower the price, with no questions asked.

As I see it, this would be the only way to level the paying field for OS'es. The proposed fine and mediaplayer separation are just a slap on the wrist for Microsoft. They do not really attack the real power base of its monopoly.

(If this comment seems familiar, it is because i posted a version of it a week ago on /.. I felt it appropriate to have it here too, after PJ's IMHO unfounded jubilation).

[ Reply to This | # ]

Comment on Lindows and the Netherlands.
Authored by: Night Flyer on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 03:26 AM EST
I have been following the Lindows situation since well before the Microsoft
lawsuit about "Lindows" and "Windows".

I am watching the Netherlands situation with considerable interest. I posted
comments about other situations where multinational companies had operations in
multiple jurisdictions.

My summary comment was, that the local court and the local country legislators
(ie. in the Netherlands) have the right to impose restrictions on subsiduaries
of multinationals, based on their laws and based on actions taken by companies
in their jurisdictions.

I don't side with Microsoft, (actually I think Microsoft pulled "a fast
one"), I side with the right of the country and its courts to make their
own decisions.

In a more perfect world, Lindows would win an appeal and overturn the court
ruling, and the Netherlands would watch the legal battle play out in the US
courts. (But money is an issue to Lindows.)

A US judge can't affect the ruling of a judge in another country. The US judge
can influence the Microsoft "parent company", and ask it to cease and
desist these actions in other countries, but it is unclear to me how much power
the US court has over a Microsoft subsituary in another country (except
indirectly). This is especially unclear now that the court in the Netherlands
has sided with Microsoft.

Quite likely the Amsterdam judge will be aware of what is happening in the US
courts. (I'm sure Michael Robertson of Lindows has already been in
communications with that court.)

It would be interesting to see the outcome of an appeal of this ruling if it
were made by Lindows.

---------------------

My Clan Motto: Veritas Vincit: Truth Conquers

[ Reply to This | # ]

Nearly Useless Remedies
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 03:31 AM EST
> As well as the fine, Microsoft is to be ordered to offer a version of its Windows operating system without Windows Media Player and to encourage computer makers to provide other audiovisual software.

If the court had ordered that Media player must always be provided separately, then that might have achieved the goal of putting Microsoft's application on an even playing field with competing applications.

But instead, they seem to be requiring Microsoft to provide an additional version of Windows, without the Media Player.

Unfortunately, all that does is give Microsoft the opportunity to cheat. Microsoft will simply comply with the letter, but not the spirit of the order.

Here is what will happen:

1. Microsoft will make available Windows, and Windows-MP (Windows minus Media Player).

2. Both versions will cost the same.

3. Windows will stable (by Microsoft standards), while Windows-MP will have unexplained "bugs."

4. Windows will be in stock, and immediately available for the asking, while Windows-XP will require a special order plus a wait time.

5. Fixes for Windows-MP will lag behind those for Windows.

6. And so on.

In other words, Microsoft will ensure that Windows-MP is so fraught with problems that no PC manufacturer will install it.

> It must also license information to make the servers of rivals more compatible with Windows desktop machines.

Again, this will only result in Microsoft cheating. The licenses will be expensive, and the purchaser will have to jump through so many hoops that, in the end, only Microsoft's friends will have the information.

Or, Microsoft will document the XML wrappers, but not the encoded binary data formats. Or, like Office, Microsoft will provide the XML formats, but they'll be patented.

No remedy will work if it requires future good behavior on Microsoft's part. Microsoft is a criminal -- its executives are 100% dishonest and corrupt.

The only remedies that will work, short of my preferred solution of jail time for Gates et al, are those that are simple, measurable, applied up front, and provide no wiggle room for Microsoft.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Lindows now Lindash in the Benelux
Authored by: bonzai on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 03:33 AM EST
As you can read in this article on The Register, the temporarily name for Lindows in the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands & Luxembourg) is now Lindash or Lin---s.com.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Way, way Off-Topic
Authored by: ile on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 03:41 AM EST
Just in case anyone is interested, at my university we are
going to use a funny mix of paper and electronic vote in
the coming elections. I am not altogether sure that the
software is OS, though, but can have proper recounts (with
no need for magnifying glasses, à la Florida).

Link to El Mundo:
http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2004/03/22/esociedad/1079958237.html

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hey, that's my country!
Authored by: numtek on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 04:19 AM EST
I'm living in the netherlands. In the Hague actualy. Unfortunatly(for this case)
not in Amsterdam, but in The Hague. If I can be of any assistance, just shout.
I'm a student without free public transport, so I rather not travel to
Amsterdam, since it's 16 euros a trip.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: Paul_UK on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 04:19 AM EST
I think Lindows ought to consider a change of name anyway, not to accept defeat,
but to dis-associate itself from that crap anyway. It would also take away a
major prong of the attack against them anyway.

Perhaps this is just defeatist talk though.

---
**
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and
those who don't. IANAL.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Lindows : some legal points from an EC point of view
Authored by: mabe on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 04:46 AM EST
Concerning Lindows in Nederland, it could be useful to remind some legal topics
to understand it.
- MS and Lindows manage their foreign business through local subsidiaries which
are incorporated in the local country and suppose to follow the legal rules of
this country. As such, a Nederlandese judge can decide on matters happening in
Nederland,
- Trademarks are local intellectual property titles. You need to apply for a
title per country (except in EC with the community trademark but it's another
story).
- The validity of a verbal trademark is judged in term of distinctiveness and
being not deceptive. As Windows is an english word not part of the usual flamish
language (nor french, spanish,...), it could be used as a trademark as being
distinctive for a non-english speaker. Another story is to prove that windows
was already used, and perhaps registered, before the MS registration.
On top of this, famous trademarks are protected more broadly (speciality rule of
trademarks are not so stringent for famous trademark).
Hope it will help

mabe

[ Reply to This | # ]

About the preliminary injunction in the Netherlands
Authored by: JeR on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 04:51 AM EST
I have a couple of comments on the Dutch court's preliminary injunction against Lindows resellers in the Netherlands.

  1. First of all, the judge's decision that Lindows infringes on Microsoft's product name/unregistered trade mark is correct in my opinion. There is no word in Dutch that even sounds like 'windows' or 'lindows', apart from the obvious jokes like 'windhoos' (whirlwind; not even a particularly spiteful nickname). These foreign words have a strong aural resemblance especially when pronounced with a typical Dutch accent of English.

    If you'd want to buy a computer in the Netherlands and had little understanding of English, computers or operating systems, you probably wouldn't clearly understand if the salesman asked you if you wanted to buy Lindows or Windows; both words sound foreign, and even if you had been told by a tech-savvy friend you'd need to buy either Lindows or Windows, you could still easily confuse them. Also, as far as I can tell, Windows is a registered trademark in the Netherlands, which I believe grants Microsoft better rights, but also more stringent obligations to maintain the trademark.

  2. It's also important to understand that Dutch trademark law isn't just a Dutch matter. There is just one trademark register for a total of three countries; the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg, commonly known as the Benelux countries. The decision of the Dutch court also applies in Belgium and Luxembourg.

    This means that the Dutch ruling does not only apply to the confusion of Lindows and Windows in the Dutch language, but also in French, which is the native language in parts of Belgium and Luxembourg. We might as well stop calling it Microsoft's victory in the Netherlands, because it in fact is Microsoft's (preliminary) victory in the Belenux countries. Because of its current success in the Benelux, Microsoft's might want to try the trademark in France and other non-English European countries as well. (Does anybody here have any news about this?)

  3. More recently, I've seen one report that Microsoft is currently trying to get "Lindash", the alternative name that Lindows.com adopted especially for use in the Netherlands following the preliminary injunction.
  4. Here is the judgment of the Dutch court in English as PDF, as referred to by Lindows.com on its front page. The front page of Lindows.com links to that document with the text "Pending Lindows' appeal".
  5. I keep wondering what Microsoft's fuss is all about. I just found two add-ons named "Windos": one for Windows by Berkeley Designing and one for DOS to be found here.

    Be rkeley Designing Company is located in Oakland, CA. That's closer to Redmond than Canada where Mike Rowe lives, isn't it? The other Windos appears to be maintained by HiTech Laboratories, presumably in Australia.

I think the ruling was unfair in one respect. The judge clearly doesn't understand how the Internet works or he wouldn't have ordered Lindows to make www.lindows.com mysteriously and magically unavailable to a part of the world. It just can't be done. Of course, if Microsoft achieved anything with its court case, it is that more people in the Benelux now know that Lindows, LindowsOS and Lindows.com exist, which is nice.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: JohnPettigrew on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 05:22 AM EST
<blockquote><i>The commission's jurisdiction for such an order is
limited to Europe, Microsoft argues in the document being circulated to EU
officials, while the company offered an alternative solution that would have
applied world-wide</i></blockquote>

So Microsoft's position is that the Commission should not pick a solution that
applies to Europe but should just take MS's offered solution? Bizarre. Of
course, if the EC was to propose a solution that *did* apply worldwide, MS would
howl! Oh, look - they *have* howled, because the fine imposed takes as its base
a number greater than the pure sales of Windows in the EU.

Where do MS get the idea that it is up to the guilty party to decide the
sentence, rather than the judge?

[ Reply to This | # ]

French side
Authored by: borneo on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 05:28 AM EST
Contrary to the US courts, frenchs courts allows very fews penalties .
"AOL condamné à verser 2.500 euros à l'UFC

«La cour d'appel a parfaitement caractérisé l'aspect trompeur de la publicité
vantant le caractère illimité du forfait et établi la réalité de l'infraction
reprochée», tranche finalement le président Lemontey, de la première chambre
civile de la Cour de cassation, dans son verdict que nous a fait suivre
l'association. Elle condamne AOL France à payer à l'UFC la somme de 2.500 euros.
«AOL est, en outre, sanctionnée pour pourvoi abusif et condamnée à une amende de
1.500 euros [à verser au trésor public]», précise l'association qui tient à
marquer le coup: elle rappelle que les professionnels «ne peuvent se retrancher
derrière des soi-disant impossibilités techniques pour échapper à leurs
obligations contractuelles»."

the link
(french):http://www.zdnet.fr/actualites/internet/0,39020774,39145185,00.htm

This is the final condemnation of AOL for false advertising by french Court. AOL
sell an unlimited access to the internet for a fixed price, but actually they
pull down the service every 30 minutes. UFC is a consumer's organisation that
sue AOL. 2500€ around $3000 is a Joke considering the one million of customer's
that souscribe to the so called illimited internet access, but it is how the
frenchs Judges goes on such matters.
So i don't expect SCOG going in french court, there is no big bucks to get
there.
BTW, there are very few links on french web sites about SCOG, dealing for the
most about the myworm virus and the Pipe funding from M$.

[ Reply to This | # ]

3 phases of a company's existance
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 05:49 AM EST
There are 3 phases to a company, denominated by who runs it...

1. Engineers. When everything is being created and there's the euphoric rise of
the company.

2. Accountants. It all ticks along smoothly and makes money.

3. Lawyers. The time to get out.

Wow. Microsoft has gone from 1 to 3 in couple of decades...

- Sorry, can't remember where the phases came from.

M.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Sorry but this is RIDICULOUS
Authored by: HawkEye on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 05:58 AM EST
Just got the latest edition of Computer Weekly (computer mag in England) and on
the inside is an advert from MS in its chain of 'Get the Facts' ads.

I nearly fell off my seat when I actually looked at this one, everyone thought I
had gone nuts. The ad claims that Linux is 10 times more expensive than W2K3.
Ok that in itself is a bit silly but here is the killer....

They compared two 'similar' systems, Win2K3 on a dual 900Mhz Xeon system (which
they claim costs $40 ?????) against a Linux image running on a

wait for it


two z900 mainframe cpu system !!!!! (cost $415). The test were for file and web
serving and apparently they think Linux is less capable.

I think they have totally flipped, how can you do a comparison when the OS's are
on different hardware? I know one thing though, if I ever need a study done I
won't go near the META group.

Neil

---
Regards

Neil

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: lpbbear on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 06:28 AM EST
In regards to the Lindows situation. One very important
thing that should raise a large red flag to all. Lindows
has for its first three letters L-I-N. The first three
letters of Linux are L-I-N. How comfortable is everyone
with the idea that Microsoft might be laying claim to the
first 3 letters of Linux with their trademark dispute with
Lindows? I have a feeling that most of us are focusing on
the last 4 letters, (D-O-W-S) and that Microsoft might be
hoping we aren't paying much attention to the other end of
the name, Lindows.
The fact that they are fighting other Lin---- might just
confirm my suspicions.

[ Reply to This | # ]

windows or Windows
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 07:13 AM EST
As I understand it the basic windowing system for computers
was developed originally by Rank Xerox back in the dark
ages - they didn't realise what they'd got and never
patented it. Apple computers nicked the idea and patented
it - it was known as 'Apple with windows', I think. MS had
quite a job making a windowing system work that didn't
infringe Apple's rights, and it was very creaky for a few
years until cpu's speeded up enough to smoothly run their
long-winded workaround code.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they
fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi*

*...looks like we're about at phase 3.2, with a bit of
luck.

[ Reply to This | # ]

windows or Windows
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 07:14 AM EST
As I understand it the basic windowing system for computers
was developed originally by Rank Xerox back in the dark
ages - they didn't realise what they'd got and never
patented it. Apple computers nicked the idea and patented
it - it was known as 'Apple with windows', I think. MS had
quite a job making a windowing system work that didn't
infringe Apple's rights, and it was very creaky for a few
years until cpu's speeded up enough to smoothly run their
long-winded workaround code.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they
fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi*

*...looks like we're about at phase 3.2, with a bit of
luck.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • windows or Windows - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 07:31 AM EST
  • What patent? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 12:57 PM EST
Hurrah, a real choice
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 07:16 AM EST
Now we'll get to choose between paying 200 Euros for Windows with Media Player,
or 200 Euros for Windows *without* Media Player. I can't wait.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Microsoft and Patents
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 07:19 AM EST
Since patents are designed to give the inventor a 'temporary monopoly' on something, and Microsoft has been shown time and time again to abuse a monopoly position, I wonder if it would be possible to invalidate some of Microsoft's patents on these grounds ?

I am sure the loss of one patent per day would soon cause Microsoft to start playing nice.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 07:25 AM EST
The Lindows litigation usefully demonstrates that any fight against Microsoft is
going to have to be worldwide. In the meantime, the SCO Group is also trying to
take its fight worlwide but without Microsoft's resources and without the
benefit of knowledge about the local business/legal environment. The SCO Group
ran into grief in Germany and I expect that at some point, its activities will
hit the wall in Australia. This leaves the France, Spain and the UK as potential
battlegrounds.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: blacklight on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 07:30 AM EST
We should retitle Microsoft's "Get the Facts" campaign as the
"Get the Fic" campaign where "fic" is short for
"fiction". Others have suggested "Get the FUD" as an
appropriate monniker.

[ Reply to This | # ]

It's the licensing, stupid
Authored by: tcranbrook on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 08:00 AM EST
Eventually, the MS-FLOSS wars will boil down to a matter of licensing. Of course, it already is at its core, but few people in the general public are aware of it. This article, Software pricing: It's all change, suggest that more software buyers are moving tpwards understanding this.
    It seems that the buyers have little faith in tech sellers making the licensing environment better for them, though - 70 per cent thought that managing their licensing would get more not less complex in the future. And with those customers handling an average of more than 40 software contracts, it's a headache that most customers could do without.

But with the talk mostly still about price and securtity, they still have a ways to go.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Has MS asked EV1 to sign a deal with SCO
Authored by: jlar on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 09:31 AM EST
Being back from holiday it is a bit hard to catch up on the latest SCO news. So
maybe someone can fill me in:

Is there a connection between EV1 and Microsoft? Has anyone from the press asked
the "head surfer" of EV1 or executives from MS whether they were in
contact regarding the EV1-SCO deal?

[ Reply to This | # ]

More MS silliness
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 09:49 AM EST
"Microsoft told the Commission that they absolutely could not remove Media
Player without breaking the operating system". MS explained that Media
Player was essential because Windows uses it for the bell sound, you know
"GDING".

That's so insulting I'm not surprised the EU is going to slap MS hard.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Losing Battles but Winning Wars
Authored by: justjeff on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 09:55 AM EST
Its nice to see that a regulatory body or court or the like stands up to
Microsoft every once in a while. Alas, I don't tink it means very much.
Microsoft has a long history of losing every battle yet winning every war.
Mostly because the battles are lost long after the war has been won.

Consider DR-DOS... Stacker... Sybase... Mosaic/Netscape... and now Media
Player. In every case, after a long and drawn out legal process, Microsoft
loses... Pays a fine... Gets slapped on the wrist. In every case though,
there is no turning back. All of Microsoft's competitors were run out of
business long before a court could offer relief.

Until a court offers a systemic remedy for Microsoft's consistent behavior, the
pattern is likely to continue.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Linus in utah
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 09:59 AM EST
http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Mar/03232004/business/150310.asp

[ Reply to This | # ]

I wonder how 'similar' the name can be...
Authored by: T. ProphetLactus on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 10:01 AM EST
OuinDoze? PhlegmDoze? PseuDoze?
All your nouns are belong to us.

TPL

[ Reply to This | # ]

English translation of Spanish article
Authored by: lovelace on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 10:02 AM EST
My Spanish is old and rusty, but here's a translation of the article linked
above. I'm sure it has problems, so if someone with a better knowledge of
spanish would like to correct, please do so.

European commision proposes a record fine of $614 million for Microsoft

05:29 P.M., 22 March 2004

BRUSSLES, Mar 22 (AFP) - The European Competition Commisioner, Mario
Monti, wants to impose a record fine of 497 million euros on the software
giant Microsoft for abusing it's dominant position, say sources close to the
case.

This proposal was approved by the competition experts of the fifteen member
states that examined the case in Brussles, according to the same source, even
though it must still be analyzed by other european courts.

If the Commision eventually approves the fine of 497 million euros, this will
be the biggest fine imposed by the European executive on a single company
for breaking the rules of competition.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Spain is next?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 10:30 AM EST
Well, fortunately, Spain has a new government that, hopefully, will look after
Spain's interests instead of someone else's.

(Signed, an American)

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Spain is next? - Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 12:21 PM EST
  • Pressure on already - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 02:53 PM EST
Expel U.S. from WTO?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 10:40 AM EST
The U.S. pretends to support free and fair trade, while at the same time
encouraging monopolistic behavior from its corporations.

The World Trade Organization should study ways to do without the U.S. economy.
It won't be easy, but the study should at least make a beginning.

The first topic to be studied should be whether to repeal intellectual property
treaties with the U.S. The ultimate topic should whether the U.S. should be
expelled from the WTO altogether.

Perhaps France should take back the Statue of Liberty. We aren't using it
anymore.

[ Reply to This | # ]

MS XML patent hijinx
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 10:58 AM EST
are being carried out up here above the 49th parallel as well. Eventually,
Billzilla will simply terraform his own planet, where he can patent everything.
As the Grand and Omnipotent Supervisor of Willyworld, he will pronounce His
jurisdiction over Earthlings, dispatching horrifying Agents to extradite those
who would act without paying tribute. These terrifying paperclips and puppy dogs
will taunt victims by asking 'where do you want to go today?' while forcing
hapless 'offenders' into their proprietary vehicles to be shipped to WillyWorld
to be 'activated', debriefed and provided with a 'service pack' consisting of a
paper suit to keep them safe during re-entry. He and His Ultra Lawyers from
Beyond Hell will patent 'bad code' and unleash a generation of ICS trained
'computer programmers' to promulgate 'bad code' throughout an unsuspecting
world, tainting them with Billzlebub's viral spaghetti code. Once this is
complete, He will become The Plaintiff, a planet eating galactic carnivore,
fighting the twin evils of freedom and innovation with DMCA missiles, Bono
Bombs, and devastating Patent Clusters. Unless he blue screens, which is pretty
comforting when you think about it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

MS fine
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 11:14 AM EST
MS has a record of rough behavior against competitors. All right.

What I find a bit dangerous is the "unbundling" issue ... if MS cannot
bundle a Media player (or, for that matter, a browser) with their OS - why would
that be possible for SUSE, RedHat, etc?

I see that there are subtleties to this (SUSE ships more like 10 browsers, and
is not trying to push any one else out of the market, for instance) but the
general argument is not without risk ... it can be turned around.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT - SCO stock is plumeting
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 11:16 AM EST
Hi.

check SCO stock graph on Yahoo,
or realtime SCO stock here

[ Reply to This | # ]

The Economist on MS and EU
Authored by: tcranbrook on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 11:22 AM EST
The Economist has an article, Another attempt to tame the monopolist.
    The most important part of the ruling will be what it has to say about what type of software Microsoft may bundle into Windows in the future. Microsoft is believed to be integrating an internet search facility like Google (which Bill Gates greatly admires) into its new version of Windows, codenamed Longhorn. Were the commission to bar that sort of bundling, it could mark the end of Microsoft’s chosen method of competition: bundle now, litigate later. But it could take half a decade of appeals to sort out whether the ruling would stand. And that is a very long time in software. "

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 12:26 PM EST
I wonder, if they didn't use the name Lindows but something non-controversial,
then all their marketing material said -

"Linux OS with X Windows-based Desktop"

or something like that, would they have been sued by MS? I believe not, and MS
would have a hard time claiming anything.

However, I don't believe this was the point of choosing the name Lindows - the
point is, "Windows" _is_ generic - the US courts agree with this,
whereas the Dutch courts (where "Windows" is not generic as it's not
part of the Dutch language) say that it isn't. This is all to do with language
usage.

I think the Dutch courts are wrong too, as I'm sure the term Window was known at
least in computer circles before MS came on the scene.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: ssavitzky on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 02:22 PM EST
While it's true that X11 came out in '87, its predecessor, X10, was widely
available outside MIT (and had some features that X11 still lacks). The
difference between X10 and X11 is in the protocol; all of the various X11Rn
releases use the same protocol between the client and the display server.

---
The SCO method: open mouth, insert foot, pull trigger.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh, By All Means, Stick to US Courts Only, Microsoft
Authored by: devhen on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 04:19 PM EST
Don't get me wrong, I hate Microsoft ;). But this is going too far. Microsoft
will succeed in an appeal, at least on some aspects of the ruling, thats for
sure. What right does anyone have to tell Microsoft that they cannot offer a
media player with their operating system? This is not just. The courts need to
be more careful when dealing with Microsoft. The anti-trust cases that went on
in the states were very effective in that they didn't demand such extreme
measures as this. I know its hard not to be angry with Microsoft, but the end
result will be much better if the courts just impose proper restrictions--ones
that cannot be so easily appealed.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A short history of the Term Windows
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 04:47 PM EST
Alan Kay coined the term windows. He worked with my father in 1967-69 to develop
a personal computer that ran a high level language and had a graphical user
interface.

He went to Xerox Parc and contuined to work on the idea of a personal computer.
It was called the Alto ( I think) He invented Smalltalk that used windows and he
called them windows sometime in the early to mid 1970's.

Apple saw his work and created the Lisa, then the macintosh. Bill Gates wrote
programming tools and applications for Apple. He saw these apple systems and the
user interface used windows that people called windows.

It was just a good name waiting to be used and bill used it.

The term Window predates Microsoft (the corporation) and is well documented as
to where the them came from.

From one who was there.

[ Reply to This | # ]

History of windows from Wikipedia
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 08:37 PM EST
Here's an URL that should help Lindows deal with MS trademark:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI

It makes it pretty clear that "Windows" were a feature and function
long before MS trademarked the single word.

and here's a 1995 doc on securing "X Windows"

http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/documents/ciac2316.html

and here's a course in Glasgow in 1994

http://www.strath.ac.uk/CC/Courses/oldXC/xc.html

and for lots more fun try a Google of

X11R1 windows

which will bring up hits using the term windows going back to 1987

[ Reply to This | # ]

Lindows should tell MS to ask Intel why "Pentium"?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23 2004 @ 08:42 PM EST
I would think that the MS people would be hoping the Lindows people don't bring
up the reason why Intel calls their processors Pentiums, instead of say 80686 or
80786.

[ Reply to This | # ]

New Move by Lindows
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 12:39 PM EST
http://www.theregister.com/content/4/36552.html

-AIB.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Groklaw © Copyright 2003-2013 Pamela Jones.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners.
Comments are owned by the individual posters.

PJ's articles are licensed under a Creative Commons License. ( Details )