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The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

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Two Quick Things, No Three
Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 06:40 AM EST

First, this is to let you know that we have a new feature on Groklaw. If you don't wish to read anonymous comments, just click the little box on the Comments bar that says "Hide Anonymous?" and then click Refresh, and they will be stripped out. You can make the choice permanent in your user preferences page.

I know some of you wanted me to block all anonymous comments, but I didn't want to block them altogether, because privacy is vital to some in order to comment at all. This seems a healthy solution. Feel free to use the feature or not, as you prefer. The noise level has been rising, so now you have a workaround. Thank you, Niels, so much for coding it for us.

And second, if you want to test Novell's SuSE out without installing it, here's the address: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/live-eval-9.0 (Geeklog won't let me make a link out of ftp addresses, that I know of) and the press release about it, which has the ftp address as a link, and here is their press release about LiveCD.

Third, Novell has announced that YAST, SuSE's installation, setup and config tool, has been liberated. It will be released under the GPL. Novell is serious, it seems, about getting it right. They announce it Monday.

  


Two Quick Things, No Three | 383 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Two Quick Things
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 06:55 AM EST
Ftp link don't work

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 06:57 AM EST
NiceWork.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell's SuSE -- Live Eval
Authored by: JustFree on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 07:08 AM EST
Try the list of available servers here.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 07:16 AM EST
I know it would involve a huge amount of work, but this site has become
mainstreamed enough that switching to software with a system of moderation might
be the thing to do. There are many, many anonymous posts with a lot of value,
and a lot of very good replies get buried in the comments page simply because
they're replies.

-- A Nonny Moose

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things/Hide Anonymous
Authored by: Hygrocybe on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 07:17 AM EST
Marvellous idea......produces a very "clean and uncluttered" comment
run when I have tried it out on various topics.

---
Blackbutt, Australia

[ Reply to This | # ]

Use Slash
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 07:58 AM EST
Upgrade your site to Slash (http://www.slashcode.com). This is the same
software /. uses to power their site. Hundreds of messages without moderation =
chaos.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Stealth Label and SuSE
Authored by: TobiasBXL on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 08:00 AM EST
Hi PJ,

The "Hide Anonymous" string blends into the black background, because
the text seems to have the same color. Otherwise this is a good idea because it
encourages people to be recognised when they post more than one comment.

Regarding the SuSE Eval: This is version 9.0 which is a little dusty already.
SuSE has already presented (but not released) the upcoming SuSE 9.1 at the CeBit
in Hannover, Germany. 9.1 will feature a 2.6 kernel, latest KDE and Gnome and
lots of other good stuff.

If you'd like to give SuSE a real try on your harddisk, you'll either have to
buy their box or install from their servers directly since SuSE does not offer
downloadable ISO images other than the live CD which can't be installed on the
hard disk like Knoppix. You'll need a bootable mini ISO from their site or the
boot disk images and off you go.

The FTP branch with SuSE 9.0 for the i386 architecture is about 7.1GB. You can
download the entire branch and create your own FTP/NFS/SAMBA server to install
from in your very own LAN or just copy the whole thing onto the harddisk and
install directly from there.

SuSE 9.1 will be released some time around April 2004. It always takes some time
until SuSE lets people download the newest distribution from their servers
because they want to push box sales of course.

regards,
Tobias

[ Reply to This | # ]

Anonymous
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 09:00 AM EST
Thanks for informing me that my comments are NOT appreciated.

Sorry folks for a small fish like me hiding from the big fish is mot an
option it is survival.

Now For Your Information
I have discovered a few things the hard way in this old life [and I
assume I am old at 80] and one of these is that if people DO NOT
want me around then it is better for me to remove myself from that
group of fools presents and relocate myself to a place where I will
not be folded, stapled or militated.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Helpful moderation *exceedingly* tricky to implement
Authored by: jayfar on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 09:04 AM EST
Hmm, I'm reposting the below because even though I originally posted it
as reply to a non-anon comment by PJ, her comment that I replied to
was a couple levels below an anon post, thus both her comment and
mine were invisible to anyone choosing the option to screen out anon
posts. Sort of reinforces the point I was making ironically. %-)

I wrote:
I think any attempt to do moderation beyond what you are already doing
will get nightmarishly complicated real fast. Best example would be
*cough* that other bloggish geek site. Look at how complex their
moderation scheme has become (moderation, metamoderation, karma)
while arguably still resulting in extremely flawed moderation.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: More TCO claims from Yankee Group
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 09:10 AM EST
I have not seen this posted. W2knews has part of a TCO servey by Laura DiDio in
the most recent newsletter.

http://www.w2knews.com/?id=468

While not specific, the claims made here seem to indicate that switching to
Linux from Windows is prohibitively expensive for large organizations. Since
W2knews parent, Sunbelt Software, is in the business of selling Windows based
products, this type of scare tactic is expected.

"A few weeks ago, W2Knews subscribers filled out a very interesting survey
of the Yankee Group and W2Knews about the total cost of ownership, comparing
Windows to Linux. Here is the promised Linux Windows Unix TCO Executive Summary
by Laura Didio, Senior Analyst, the Yankee Group."

I would be interested to know if Yankee Group talked to any companies who have
actually switched to Linux or are just surveying Windows based organizations who
have no actual idea of the cost. If Yankee is compiling its research from groups
with no actual Linux experience, this might explain why Didio's appraisal of
Linux is always so negative.

I work in a college that is mostly Windows based, except for my servers and the
Computer Science department. The attitudes between the majority of the IT staff
who have never used Linux and Computer Science students and staff who use Linux
are 180 degrees apart.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 09:27 AM EST
I agree.

Please don't do away with the ability to post anonymously.

rgds

[ Reply to This | # ]

Suse Clickable FTP link
Authored by: grouch on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 09:37 AM EST
Suse live-eval-9.0

[ Reply to This | # ]

Sayin it again...
Authored by: MajorDisaster on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 09:42 AM EST
And I have noticed that most times I do not even glance at who posts. Since this
topic has risen, after reading a good post I will look. The majority of the time
it is anonymous. There are a lot of people that have great information, ideas,
and commentary and choose to post anonymously, not just trolls. Many times an
anonymous poster is just someone who elected not to set up an account and
actually adds their name at the end of the post. I sincerely hope this move is
the last to block anonymous. I will definitely not be using the hide anonymous
feature. And, Thanks to all the anonymous posters that contribute to groklaw


---

Death twitches my ear, "Live", he says "I am Coming."

--Virgil--

[ Reply to This | # ]

Why the Linux Community Needs Open Source Insurance
Authored by: tcranbrook on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 09:43 AM EST
Here is an article by PJ's new boss at Open Source Risk Management. It has many interesting observations.
    In America, whenever so many billions of dollars get involved, companies under pressure hire lawyers and begin suing each other. Why? Because litigation works well enough, often enough, to get plaintiffs' lawyers excited.

..............

    Regarding both how the Linux kernel got assembled in the first place, and how courts will interpret the General Public License (GPL) under which it is made available, there are a wealth of factual and legal ambiguities out of which skilled lawyers can make plausible-sounding arguments. One can only imagine what will happen to the stock price of the first company that makes a legal claim against the Linux kernel that impartial commentators actually find to be persuasive! When the potential financial rewards of doing so remain so high, it is a virtual certainty that we will see other plaintiffs bringing significant lawsuits, against both vendors and end users of the Linux kernel, within the next few years, even if SCO's current claims are categorically rejected by the courts.

This does not bode well for the future, I fear. And this guy is supposed to be on our side.

[ Reply to This | # ]

What is anonymous, anyway?
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:02 AM EST
Most "non-anonymous" posters I see here use a nic that is presumably
not their real name, or even close. It is also possible (with enough skill and
determination) to use a hard-to-trace (i.e. needs FBI-level resources to track)
e-mail address in the registration, removing the "standing behind my
words" aspect. So in the final analysis the only essential difference is
that postings by the same person are more easily identified. Although don't
count on it too much either: the same person can control several pseudonums
arguing with wach other... or someone can hijack another's pseudonum.

Many people have also note that some anonymous posts are more valuable than some
"non-anonymous" posts. Given all the, putting anonymous comments
second-class does not really serve any useful purpose.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some ideas for improving the site
Authored by: sela on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:03 AM EST
I thought about posting this some time ago, but this looks like the perfect
opportunity:

As the number of posts in Groklaw is increasing, I have several ideas that would
help us find the interesting posts without reading through hundreds of posts.

The idea of using a moderation system comes to mind, however I do not think a
"community moderation" system a-la slashdot would be a good idea for
this kind of site, since my experiance with slashdot is that this system is too
open for abuse, as well as lot of other problems.

I suggest using a much simpler moderation system:
- There are only two types of possible moderations: Delete an abusive comment,
and highlight insightful/informative comments.
- The only people who could perform moderation are PJ and possibly few other
trusted people that are given access to the moderation system.
- Any registered user can recommand a comment for the "highlights"
section and report trolls using a push-buttom. Recommandation have no effect on
the comment, but may help the moderators.

Other ideas:
- Let the posters self-categorize their own comments, by choosing from a list of
several cathegories (Such as: Legal observation, Fincncial, New links, Opinion,
corrections etc...) This way, we could filter only comments of certain type.

- Maybe its time to add a message board to the site. Many of the comments posted
are off-topic because there is no other place in groklaw to post comments. A
groklaw message board (or several, for different topics) would solve this
problem.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Bad Idea...
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:07 AM EST
"Many of the great founding Fathers of our American Constitution... Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, James Madison, and many others, published their philosophical and political works anonymously." From: THE FOUNDING ARCHITECTS OF FREEDOM ARE ROLLING IN THEIR GRAVES

The Federalist Papers were published starting in 1787. This was during the time that the Constitution was being ratified by the new States and a time during which very important ideas were being exchanged. A very different world might exist today had the Consitution not been ratified. These ideas were radical, but some of our founding fathers considered them to be so important, that they published them anonymously. The authors, who were certainly famous at the time, considered their own identity to be secondary to the ideas themselves. There is certainly nothing wrong with publishing anonymously, and our country has a noble tradition in this regard.

Anonymity and freedom are tightly bound, and so it astonishes me that a site like Groklaw which stands for freedom in so many ways would deprecate the value of anonimity.

I think the suggestion that messages be markable as a "Best Message" is a far better idea -- and a very necessary one. However, I don't think PJ has enough time to examine every message that is entered. And unfortunately, Geeklog does not provide a very good way to monitor all of the new comments as they come in, especially on an "old" topic.

OK, it seems like everyone has some ideas, so I'll chip in, too. Here is my proposal: Every message should have a button on it labeled "Great Message!". Any and everyone can press this button (limit: once per user/IP address). When they do, a counter is incremented for that message.

PJ (or someone delegated by her) can then examine all messages that seem to be getting high counts. Those messages that she deems to be the best, she can identify as a "Best Message", and it gets higher visibility along the lines that she has already indicated.

I'm happy to see that Niels has provided some patches for Groklaw's version of Geeklog. I think Groklaw has unique enough requirements that this should be carried further. I am also a web developer who could assist in this effort if details about what code base to use, etc, can be provided. If this information is posted on Growklaw, I might even be lucky enough to see it. :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:12 AM EST
While on the subject of site improvements...

A calendar would be nice. It would list the expected filing dates for motion
replies, responses, and court action for all the proceedings of interest. For
things which have no set date a table of pending items would help also. This
would reduce the number of posts asking for when things are expected or due.

If you have anonymous postings turned off ... sorry...

[ Reply to This | # ]

SuSE ISO mirror
Authored by: Steve Martin on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:14 AM EST

PJ (and others), here's another place to get the SuSE 9.0 Eval CD. It's on linuxiso.org, which seems to have more bandwidth than SuSE's official site.

---
"When I say something, I put my name next to it." -- Isaac Jaffee, "Sports Night"

[ Reply to This | # ]

A quirk or intentional?
Authored by: JScarry on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:35 AM EST
One odd thing I noticed is that the hide anonymous button only appears if
you are logged in.

Anonymous readers would presumably want to hide anonymous comments as
well.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Good and Bad
Authored by: zjimward on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:49 AM EST

The good news is that it does look like Novell is trying to be serious about
open source. Live CDs are also great for demoing. The bad is that Novell only
has the last version of SuSe which means you don't get to see what's in 9.1.
Also I'd much rather install a distribution to my hard drive so that I can see
it's real performance. Demo CD's in some ways seem like the old shareware
crippled applications where you didn't get full use of a product until you
bought it. Then after you bought it you were sorry you did because the crippled
features weren't all that great.

[ Reply to This | # ]

European software patents legislation
Authored by: Anonymous Hero on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:49 AM EST
"Ted Doyle writes "This follows perhaps too closely on the heels of my last missive, but today is important. Today was a day of protest against the idea that Europe should be able to patent software.

The European parliament, for one reason or another, agreed. And so a proposed legislation that may have allowed large corporations to block future analogs of Apache, PHP, Linux and other highly desirable, free and progressive software from the market was shelved ... for the moment.

[...]"

Read on in the Newsforge.com article or skip directly to the original article at Thenetworkadministrator.com

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: SteveS on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:54 AM EST
How about this:

Another check box in our prefs that would allow us to post anon?

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Groklaw Opinion Poll Experiment
Authored by: mlinehan on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 10:58 AM EST
I want to try this out to see how well this sort of thing might work...

    GROKLAW OPINION POLL

In your opinion, does SCOG believe they have a legitimate case against IBM, Novel, and AutoZone?

If you think that SCOG belive they are in the right, and have a legitimat case, post a message under They Believe!.

If you think that SCOG doesn't believe their own PR, post a message under They FUD!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: a1pha on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 11:37 AM EST
Anyone would think that PJ offered a service to randomly flog anonymous posters
within an inch of their life, if you were to ride the unbridled hyperbole that
has been unleashed with the addition of ONE SINGLE BUTTOn to try and remove all
the BS that has surfaced on GrokLaw recently.

Sheesh, some posters need to grow a pair. Anyone would think that their
constitutional rights had been breached or something.

As an aside, I don't use the "Anonymous" checkbox - but I can
understand the needs of some people to do so - what about their choice to read
the site in a manner they choose - isn't that important.

And some of the attacks on PJ nearly touch on personal. Well done guys, TSG are
laughing all the way to their next failed lawsuit with the way some people are
behaving...

---
--
Trech Gwlad, nac Arglwydd

[ Reply to This | # ]

Thank You, But
Authored by: legal insanity on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 11:48 AM EST
Thanks for the button, but it's not needed here I enjoy reading all posts.

---
Insanity Pleadings is the only Sensible Defense
To bad for SCOG, No INSANITY PLEAD in these Civil Matters

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: whig on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 11:50 AM EST
Obbligatory Monty Python Reference

Aieeee!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Suing the Government: Un-American or Not?
Authored by: tcranbrook on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 11:52 AM EST
This article in Linux Voodoo has some interesting observations about the SCO Canopy links.

The following brings up a very interesting accounting issue and the 'corporate vail' between the companies.

    Earlier, we have seen that the Canopy group has managed to become extremely creative with their accounting principles and revenue recognition. When Center 7 and the Canopy Group settled their litigation with Computer Associates that revenue was somehow booked into the SCO Group's finances. Although the two are supposed to be separate operating entities, it does appear that they have managed to go through the ovens at Chez Canopy and turned into magical licensing revenue for Linux IP Licenses. which appear in the books for the SCO Group. Shazam, A La Kazaam!

    Computer Associates for their part have alluded to the licenses as something akin to Intellectually Preposterous statements from the SCO Group, rightfully acknowledging the settlement with Center 7 and the Canopy Group, but denying a deal with the SCO Group. All of this leads me to ask the obvious question: how does the SCO Group recognize revenue and licenses from a Canopy Group, Center 7 and Computer Associates settlement? Where did the SCO Group become a settling party?

How indeed did a Canopy/Center7 settelment show up in SCO's revenues? Do the accountants of the crowd have any comments on that?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: RealProgrammer on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 11:58 AM EST

Go to tinyurl.com and enter in the ftp URL.

It will give you an http address you can give Geeklog. For instance: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/live-eval-9.0 via Tiny URL.

They claim the links never expire, and it's free.

---
(I'm not a lawyer, but I know right from wrong)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: Lino on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 11:59 AM EST
Groklaw is growing so fast and, quite often, some important comments are simply lost in the jungle of comments. A possible solution is to create a "Recommended Reading" area that is maintained by PJ and other volunteer moderators. It will help those who don't have time to go through all the comments to find important information. Obviously PJ is thinking of something similar, and I hope people who are more capable then I am will help to solve the technical problems.

Groklaw is doing something unprecedented. It is part of a new trend emerging on Internet, accompanied by those, to paraphrase what PJ said, "open source version of ...". Open source model has been proved to be successful in software development; it will be, I believe, successful in sharing information as well. By contributing new ideas and methods, we help shaping the history.

Now something about SuSE LiveEval CD. When you use this live CD for the first time, you have to go through a kind of installation process, and something (mostly configuration files) has to be installed on your hard drive. This is different from most other live CD's. Those files can be installed in Linux partitions, FAT partitions (DOS, Windows 9x), and other supported file systems, but cannot be installed in NTFS (Windows NT/2K/XP). If you have only NTFS partition(s) on your hard drive and you do not intend to change it, then you can not use the LiveEval CD.

As to buying SuSE, there is a p lace where you can buy SuSE CD's for much less money. I bought SuSE 9.0 from them, but I do have questions. Is it legal to copy and sell those commercial distro CD's? Does it comply with the FOSS community rules? By buying CD's from them does one support FOSS community in a broader sense instead of supporting SuSE only?

[ Reply to This | # ]

I talk to the trees....
Authored by: Paul_UK on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 12:13 PM EST
No point muttering to myself, so I have decided to register at last.

[ Reply to This | # ]

No Four things
Authored by: shareme on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 12:27 PM EST
Could someone convince Novell to put the download up as a torrent and list it
with isoHunt.com?


It would ease some direct stress on their own ftp servers while still getting
the Linux out :)



---
Sharing and thinking is only a crime in those societies where freedom doesn't
exist.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Darls web site
Authored by: geoff lane on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 12:31 PM EST
Darl has a web site.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Noise reduction with minimal intrusion
Authored by: hawk on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 12:49 PM EST
Abstract: Filtering out anonymous posts is considered intrusive by many people.
This thread is intended to discuss technical ways to reduce the noise, without
resorting to techniques that are broadly viewed as intrusive. I give a few
suggestions.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: drh on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 01:12 PM EST
If you post a comment, it should be good enough to stand
on it's own. If what you say is important and relevant, it
will not matter that it was you who wrote it. Anonymous
postings should stay.

Having said that, I also know that postings can get out of
hand, or troll, or incite anger and discontent. I no
longer bother to read OSNews for these same actions from
one or two posters who make the comments section
worthless. However, that is my choice, and yes sometimes I
miss out because of it.

Allowing people to filter what they see may be an
acceptable alternative for them, but I would rather choose
for myself from all the postings what I consider relevant
and what I consider rubbish.

Yes, I do still believe that while I may not like what you
say, I will defend your right to say it.


---
Just another day...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 01:18 PM EST
I do not see any button. Where is it exactly?

Thanks,
Bert Douglas

[ Reply to This | # ]

Pro anonymous
Authored by: former lurker on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 01:22 PM EST
Well, the discussion about anonymous comments has finally prompted me to sign up
and send a post.

I have been a reader of Groklaw for many months now. This is my first post
ever. I wanted to add my $.02 worth regarding anonymous comments and about
urgings to make radical changes to the site software, etc.

First: I have seen very insightful comments from anonymous posters along with
questions which have prodded others to further useful research. It would be a
shame to lose this input.

Second: As some others have observed, banning anonymous comments will not stop
the obnoxious posters or trolls. As a matter of fact, some of the most
"over the top" ranting I have seen on the site was by registered
posters rather than anonymous.

Third: I personally do not have time (usually) to fiddle with a bunch of filter
settings to see everything just as I would like it. That's why God gave us
brains. It is the best filtering tool around. Of course, you must engage it
for it to be of use ;-)

Fourth: I have been in software development for large corporations for many
years. One thing that I have learned for certain is that Murphy's Law and all
of its addendums are quite active. Radical changes in the Groklaw site software
might accidentally accomplish what SCO & co. would love to do: take down
the site at some critical point in time. I'm not saying "do not change
anything." From what I have seen, the site maintainers are extremely
competent and skilled. I'm just saying, "Be careful about implementing
radical changes and the timing of said changes. We don't want to unintentionally
help SCO & co out."

Last of all, I want to insert the traditional praises for a new Groklaw
registrant. PJ, the work you have done here is amazing. Keep at it and don't
let the negative stuff get your down. Anyone who attempts an effort which is
positive and useful will face opposition. The greater the work, generally the
greater the opposition! To the site maintainers, "Thanks! Keep up the
great work!" And last, but not least, to the great host of Groklaw posters
who put so much time and effort into the content of this site: "Thank you!
Thank you! Thank you!"

Former Lurker

[ Reply to This | # ]

Value Anon
Authored by: jog on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 01:49 PM EST
Today an "Anonymous" post fostered a thread of
twenty comments. (so far)

jog

[ Reply to This | # ]

reason for Annonymous for me
Authored by: phrostie on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 02:13 PM EST
at work the Windows computer that i'm required to use will not stay logged in
long enough to post on some days. having the option is a good thing.

---
=====
phrostie
Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of DOS
and danced the skies on Linux silvered wings.
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/snafuu

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: WSJ gets it
Authored by: gdeinsta on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 02:15 PM EST

Good article in the WSJ called Hack This (Please). Doesn't mention FOSS by name but instead talks about the advantages for manufacturers in making products that consumers can (gasp) hack into and customize.

No registration required; the link goes to the author's own website.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell thingy
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 02:22 PM EST
Anyone heard or seen anything on the Novell case(dismiss respond). I know it
will not show up till Monday or Tuesday but just wondering.

Thanks

[ Reply to This | # ]

Maybe number four
Authored by: Bill The Cat on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 03:21 PM EST
Anybody know about the status of this thread? IBM Gets Until Tomorrow to Respond to SCO's 2nd Amended Complaint I'm curious as to their response.

---
Bill Catz

[ Reply to This | # ]

Does Not Work! - Compromise Proposed
Authored by: DrHow on Sunday, March 21 2004 @ 03:59 AM EST
The fourth top-level post in this topic (_after_ "Novell's SuSE -- Live
Eval Authored by: JustFree on Saturday, March 20 2004 @ 07:08 AM EST") is
an excellent example of why the idea as implemented is a poor one. The top
level post was anonymous, but it generated a lot of good and non-anonymous
discussion which was also suppressed because the posting which started the
thread happened to have been anonymous. I do not think it is desirable to
suppress identified-author posts just because they happen to be in _response_ to
an anonymous post. If this policy is continued, serious folks would hesitate to
reply directly to anonymous posts. Indeed, to make sure that such responses did
appear even to viewers who had enabled hiding, the non-anonymous responders will
tend to post their responses at the same level as the anonymous post which
initiates the responses. This defeats the purpose of the threading feature for
the keeping the discussion more organized and easier to follow.

What I would like to see is a mode which would suppress the _expansion_ of an
anonymous post but which would still put in a placeholder header line for it.
Ie., hide the posted message body, but presereve the fact of its existence and
its subject. If an anonymous post is actually significant, it will no doubt
generate responses. The presence of non-anonymous responses in a thread
subordinate to an anonymous post can then be used as an indication that perhaps
the original anonymous posting is worth reading after all. I would then like to
be able to do so simply by clicking its header line rather than having to go
back to no-hide presentation. Occasionally, I might even be persuaded to do so
based just on the Subject the anonymous poster had composed for the message.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two things that may help with info overload
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, March 21 2004 @ 03:32 PM EST
First, I think there is a lot of value in the posts and it's a pity it gets
buried in the replies. Why don't we create additional medium, allowing
submission of full-length original articles for publication on the same level as
the PJ's? Many posters write long replies indicating they are capable of larger
forms. Some people may also find it interesting to read through replies to
earlier articles and present all valuable ideas and information as a narrative.

Second, I think the default title should be left blank and required when
submitting the reply form. Then folks will have to come up with custom titles
which will hopefully make it easier to sift through replies prioritizing what to
read next.

Dennis

[ Reply to This | # ]

Of moderation and ignore lists
Authored by: vlooiencircus on Sunday, March 21 2004 @ 06:00 PM EST
I've been following this SCOG thing for quiet some time now, since I came across
Groklaw and the Yahoo finance scox board. It fascinates me and takes up far too
much of my time, but i'm hooked...:-)
I don't post much because most things are already said by others, no sense in
repeating imho.

However, the subject of moderation touches me personally, because it restricts
my freedom to choose what I read. It tends to enforce groupthink by discouraging
the dissenting voices and opposing views that we all need, to keep both feet
firmly on the ground and stop us from becoming a mob. Beautiful things like
Groklaw, when they grow and aquire momentum, are prone to corruption from
within, by the very people who cherish it. I've seen it happen before, and it
happened to me to. It still saddens me and I don't want to see it happen to
Groklaw.
So I don't want to be able to moderate other people's posts. Nobody should,
exept perhaps for offensive language, because that's not necessary to get your
point across. Threats and calls for violence may be an exeption to, staying
civil is very important, imho. But that should be it.

So, to keep down the "noise level", there are few options left.

-self moderation.

-ignore list

Self moderation.
you have to choose a category, like "on topic" or "off
topic", and a subcategory, like "fact", "opinion",
"fun", "interesting".
Implement a filter with checkboxes so one can choose categories.

Ignore list.
One nifty feature on the Yahoo Finance Boards is the Ignore List. One can add
users to it and filter out their posts. I, and I believe I'm not the only one,
only miss the possibility to filter out the replies to their posts as well...
great way to get rid of (perceived) trolls.

As for anonymous posters, maybe someone can come up with a scheme to give them
an id based on their encrypted ip-address and encryption-key servers in
different countries, to guarantee their anonymity.

I am sorry, but I am not a coder so I can only make suggestions. But this is all
about freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom to choose. Lets please preserve that.
these are the most important things ANYBODY can have.

Strength to you, PJ, please keep up the good work.
Strength to us all, to keep on the right track.

greetings,


---
Alex

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: ErichTheWebGuy on Sunday, March 21 2004 @ 06:32 PM EST
I just got the live eval CD, in fact I am writing this
using it. Man is it sweet! My only complaint is that KDE
3.2 and all the new apps arent there. But overall it is
super-sweet like all the other SuSE products!

---
Striving daily to be RFC-2550 compliant

[ Reply to This | # ]

Two Quick Things, No Three
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, March 22 2004 @ 09:35 AM EST
"If you don't wish to read anonymous comments, just click the little box on
the Comments bar that says "Hide Anonymous?" and then click Refresh,
and they will be stripped out. You can make the choice permanent in your user
preferences page."

Nice to see GrokLaw is focusing on "freedom". Maybe it's time to make
a statement about "freedom" and GrokLaw. We cannot discuss the rights
to free computing and then turn around and stamp out those who choose to post
without a registration.

Why do those that register feel as using a fictitious name such as "John
Doe" is greater than posting anonymously. I feel the same when reading
posts using the term "troll".

No.

This term is used to ensure that some superiority is given to those who register
under fictitious names. A troll is a web surfer. A person who spends time
browsing and reading. Maybe even posting without registration. They are also
responsible for helping to make a site such as GrokLaw popular. On one hand
great boasting is done about the number of "hits" a popular site
receives, and on the other we see the same calling others trolls.

If we continue to gain superiority by belittling those who make a site popular,
then we indeed are no better than the rest that maintain a monopoly or closed
ideas. We cannot continue to claim "Open" is better, then turn off the
idea when others complain. It's either "Open", or it's
"Closed".

I too have seen posts that I would have rather not read. But I have the choice
to either read or not. I would still prefer that party have their opportunity to
relay their perspective on a subject without the need for someone who disagrees
naming them a troll. That is "Open". That is "Free".

I have read many anon posts that I've enjoyed on this site. Many were very
informational. Thank you to all.





[ Reply to This | # ]
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