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The information on Groklaw is not intended to constitute legal advice. While Mark is a lawyer and he has asked other lawyers and law students to contribute articles, all of these articles are offered to help educate, not to provide specific legal advice. They are not your lawyers.

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Some Special Praise
Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 10:04 PM EST

I am working on some articles, but someone sent me this, and I decided to violate my usual policy of not mentioning it when Groklaw is named in a story, because this one is so special -- and it's about you, too -- that I wanted to share the pleasure I felt when I read it. So here you are, from Newsforge today, John O'Sullivan's list of winners and losers in the SCO saga:

"Groklaw -- Winner

How did we ever get by without this site? Groklaw is the kind of thing I always dreamed the Internet would enable: A place where you can get not only the important documents, but informed and educational commentary as well. The site's authors have devoted an enormous amount of time and effort to the cause. Their efforts have resulted in a well-informed community response to SCO. Rather than just invective, critics have had tangible legal logic to counter SCO's FUD."

I don't know about you, but I was on emotional overload all day, exhausted from working late into the night on the transcript and with a really bad taste in my mouth from SCO's antics yesterday, and it certainly felt good to read this article. There's a lot more in it, because it isn't about Groklaw, of course, as its central theme, but I can't seem to focus on anything else but that one paragraph just yet. : ) He totally gets what we are trying to do. I hope he is right. Thanks, Raja, for sending it to me. Enjoy, everyone.


  


Some Special Praise | 74 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Some Special Praise
Authored by: eamacnaghten on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 10:20 PM EST
The credit is yours PJ..

By the way - I hope you have not forgotten about the book you promised when this
is over....

[ Reply to This | # ]

Free and Open Source Principles in Action
Authored by: Nick on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 10:37 PM EST
He gets it, all right. This is an example of people power that mimics the
power of GNU/Linux technically. With many eyes, GNU/Linux is able to
incorporate world class features and quality. It's a community effort that
trumps the proprietary world model despite their name recognition and
money.

Well look at what little ol' Groklaw has been able to do up against the
FUD, name recognition, and money of SCO and their legal team. Instead
of business as usual with the pundits accepting SCO-speak at face value,
Groklaw has helped the world keep score of what is actually going on
and cutting through the fog of FUD. Thanks to the Groklaw community
effort, and especially the great efforts of PJ, people power is winning
again. It trumps the proprietary world model despite their name
recognition and money.

Free and Open Source principles as expressed in terms of accurate
information. Well done, community!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: ansible on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 10:38 PM EST

From the Article: Linus Torvalds ... By keeping his head down and his mouth shut, he has managed to treat the episode as nothing more than a distraction.

Huh. Did I dream that interview when he said SCO was a bunch of crackheads?

While I heartily agree that Groklaw is an immense resource, the article as a whole is self-serving tripe, in my opinion. That's not to say I disagree with the opinions stated. I largely share them.

However, it is far, far too early to be calling out winners and losers yet. IBM is slowly crushing fiaSCO, like an 800lbs gorilla gently sitting down on a bananna. But there are likely to be some more suprises before this is all over.

Let's not get overconfident people.

[ Reply to This | # ]

awesome.
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 10:39 PM EST
Yeah, I saw that earlier today as well, and I have to agree--Groklaw is and has been the best place for actual facts about the SCO debacle. The mainstream media hasn't even been close. In fact, I just saw this note at the bottom of an 'article':
Editor's note: A previous version of the story referred to SCO's "patent" claims. SCO Group owns the copyright to the UNIX code, not the patent. -- SCO To Expand Its Lawsuit Beyond Linux
So I just have to say that I very much appreciate the service that Groklaw is and has been providing; thank you, PJ, from all of us. :)

--pb

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Funny how. - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 11:46 PM EST
    • Funny how. - Authored by: Trepalium on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 02:57 AM EST
    • Funny how. - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 04:45 AM EST
For PJ et al
Authored by: Glenn on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 10:40 PM EST
Groklaw has become an addiction, albeit an agreeable one. I know this is down
the road a bit, but do you have an idea as to what direction Groklaw will take
once the SCOG farce is over?
The SCOG affaor is also addictive, but in a morbid, masochistic way, although
somewhat lighter than the O.J. trial.
It will be a relief when SCOG gets its just desserts, unless the executives
are allowed to cut and run when the wall s start coming down. Maybe someone
could pre-arrange an exile for them, in Siberia.

Glenn

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: mac586 on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 10:57 PM EST
I've never spent so much time reading / listening to such accomplished liars as
I did on Tuesday (and I've worked in Washington for the last 18 years!).

First came the teleconference, then there was McBride's keyNOT speech, and
lastly, I punished myself further by listening to Sontag on the LinuxShow.

Of course, the Groklaw community was there as a beacon of well documented
truths. Thanks to PJ and the community for all their hard work.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Congratulations, PJ
Authored by: Scriptwriter on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 11:14 PM EST
I haven't been here long, but I've been enjoying my visit. This community gets
on much better in terms of things like trolling and useless flamewars than most
of the other Linux sites I visit, and it appears to me that it's primarily due
to your influence. Plus, it's fun to read and enlightening.

You deserve the recognition you're getting. Enjoy it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Enderle Out?
Authored by: CyberCFO on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 11:16 PM EST
I read the whole article and I noticed they made mention of Rob Enderle as a loser, No duh! Anyway, seriously, they also noted he is no longer with Giga. What can we find out about what happened?

---
/g

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 11:28 PM EST
I'd say it's premature for Newsforge to be declaring winners and losers for
most issues, but the praise for Groklaw and PJ is both deserved and correct.

IMHO, the winners/losers so far ALREADY:

Big Winner - Groklaw community, PJ

Big Loser - Several Tech and stock analysts (you know who!)



But if we are predicting, IMHO, future:

Big winners: CS&M, SuSE stockholders (hey they are getting a decent deal),
OSDL (how many new members and funding have they got?)

Slight to big winner: IBM, Red Hat, Novell (it's unclear even if they win,
whether the benefits will outweight all the hassle they have had to put up with,
or if so, by how much)

Losers: SCO, SCO executives, Boies' firm

Big losers: Bay Star, RBC, ICMP (who will all have lost their own money if
SCO's stock becomes worthless)


I would like to see Canopy and Sun in the loser camp, but I'm rather doubtful
that they will be. I guess you could say Sun might already be, because they
spent money on that license, however it's not a significant amount of money for
Sun, and they will probably get away with those anti-IBM ads they ran and their
ugly mouths (not that they deserve to get away with it).

As for Microsoft, they are a loser in these sense that they paid for some kind
of license, but it's not a significant amount of money for them. They had no
goodwill in the Linux community anyway, so that won't make any difference. If
anybody is expecting retribution against them, because they paid for a license,
don't bank on it - MS is considerably less exposed than Sun (who ran ads, and
bought SCO stock), and Sun will almost certainly get away with it.


Regards
Quatermass

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, November 19 2003 @ 11:48 PM EST
Clearly Groklaw is a secret Microsoft funded effort to
distract all us hard-coding fs/os developers with such
compelling news and analysis to thereby keep us away from
activily coding!!! The loss of code productivity in the
community as a whole due to this site is simply staggering!
Now that we have outed you PJ, perhaps you should reveal
your true identity...is that you Melissa G?! :)

Okay, humor aside, this site is an excellant resource that
truelly deserves what attention it gets....

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: rand on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:03 AM EST
Part of me wants you to slow down so I can get some sleep once in a while. Most
of me can't wait for the next installment.

Congratulations, you've created what most blogs wannabe: a truly collaborative
effort, with intelligent discourse that doesn't collapse into inanity, a place
that really makes a difference.

Keep 'em comin'.

---
Dim gstrIANAL As String
(Oh, Lord, get me off this project...)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Hygrocybe on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:12 AM EST
Allow me to offer my congratulations too PJ, very well done. I saw the reference
article on the web yesterday and was delighted to see how praise was heaped on
the site and therefore both on your shoulders and on those of all of the many
Linux community people who have given so generously of their time.

If there was one thing I would suggest as an outcome - let's not let this site
die - please. I/We have seen how a concerted effort can move mountains and have
an enormous effect in the exposure of plain foolishness and (I think) fiscal
greed. I am sure there are multitudes of closets with very smelly skeletons
just waiting for Groklaw to open the doors on where they are hiding.

Again - enjoy the praise - especially because it is so richly due.

---
LamingtonNP

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: sam on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:14 AM EST
Me too!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Kudos!
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:21 AM EST

Thanks for the site and all the great content, PJ.

There's a dark side to this site, however. I have code that I'd like to be writing but the articles and replies here are just too darned good to miss. :-)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:53 AM EST
O'Sullivan really captures the week in his observation: "As
yesterday's conference call demonstrated, SCO's lawyers are
being forced to make increasingly bizarre arguments to just
stay in the game." IMHO, that comment really sums up where
we are, and it is very nicely articulated.

O'Sullivan's comments on PJ's Groklaw are right on also, IMHO.
This is not simply congratulations for a job well done. It is
thanks for realizing a potential of the internet that, up to
this point, has only been a dream.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Dan M on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 01:12 AM EST
From an earlier poster in reference to the power of open source: SCO doesn't know it's own trade secrets

[ Reply to This | # ]

The least Hollywood can do ,,,
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 01:14 AM EST
for your sterling efforts is to provide a film based on the forthcoming book.
Casting, anyone ...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Beyonder on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 01:27 AM EST
PJ definitely deserves the kudos, and more.
I too have been totally addicted to this site since this whole SCO fiaSCO began.
I just can't seem to wait to see what pathetically insane thing SCO is going to
come up with next.

And I second the idea of a book, the SCO stuff alone, when it's done would be
enough material, the groklaw coverage and work PJ has done should even be used
as a case study material required reading in law courses around the world. It'd
be great to see groklaw/PJ mentioned in legal texts years from now...

I can't help wondering what we're going to do after SCO is done? Yes, there's
always Microsoft, but I somehow doubt we will ever see insanity of this caliber
ever again, sigh, the sheer comedic value has been immeasureable.

I also had a rather interesting idea while reading PJs post and the comments of
this thread, a rather interesting concept I came up with, which I'm going to
toy with a while before sticking my foot in my mouth... Something about this and
the newsforge thing has me thinking... (be afraid, be very afraid) :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Red Hat suit
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 01:27 AM EST
The article states, "Red Hat and IBM will certainly win damages." I
thought the Red Hat suit was only about getting SCO to shut their noise holes.
Is there any way Red Hat can win monetary damages from their current suit? Or
do they have to file a separate one? Or I guess it could also be that silencing
SCO is just the first stage of the current suit. Anyone have any details on
this?

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Red Hat suit - Authored by: jmc on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 02:00 AM EST
  • Red Hat suit - Authored by: PJ on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 05:07 AM EST
    • Red Hat suit - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 02:37 PM EST
Some Special Praise
Authored by: Mark_Edwards on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 04:05 AM EST
Like many others here let me also say a very big well done to PJ and everyone
else that has contributed to Groklaw.

I personally think this site is amazing and is THE only site that has helped
keep me sane through all of this !

Well Done All !!!!!

Mark.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Drat and Blast!
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 04:13 AM EST
And I would have gotten away with it too if it wern't for you meddling geeks!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise for PJ
Authored by: brenda banks on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 04:14 AM EST
well deserved praise in my opinion.and i want several copies of this book
Groklaw has grown so much since i found it so many months ago.it has constantly
amazed me at the cooperation between everyone.we dont all believe the same
things but we show enough respect to allow each to contribute
it is an honor to be a part of Groklaw
Pj thank you for the great articles and the selfless giving of your time and
talent to the community.


---
br3n

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: dodger on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 05:31 AM EST
Great work pj!
When reviewing Special Praise - I cannot help but have some hope that there is
finally a tool in the world to deal with the misrepresentation, the press, and
greedy lawyers - thanks to you pj.

There is an article on David Boies at
http://www.time.com/time/poy2000/mag/boies.html

It is sad that this great lawyer has fallen from a former glory, to being a pawn
in an 'Intellectual Property SCAM' and as a 2% shareholder in SCO, he has
denegrated himself by appearing as a greedy, self-serving jerk. Most sad of all
is that he has had 9 months to say something intelligent and show us his
brilliance. Instead of that we have had 'bla bla bla' from the SCO legal
department, and 'spin, spin, spin' from the SCO leadership.

It is sad because it was Boies who argued that Microsoft was a monopoly with all
of its grave implications of freedom/slavery, choice/blinders. And now it is
Boies who is UNDOING EVERYTHING THAT MADE HIM RESPECTED AND ADMIRED by attacking
the software movement that stands to finally break the stronghold that Microsoft
has had on the world for the last 20-odd years.

Perhaps the answer lies in the results that law, like software, needs to be
open. Perhaps you, pj, are the Linus Torvalds/Richard Stallman, of the legal
profession. Perhaps this new Groklaw tool will finally put an end to a
profession run-amok.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Sri Lumpa on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 05:44 AM EST

Congrats PJ.

It's nice to see your efforts see some recognition although I hope that when
the IBM suit over we will hear from them whether it was a helpful resource
(having them say it is would be very high praise indeed).

I check Groklaw every day and wish I could participate more constructively but
being in Europe there generally is enough excellent comments putting forwards
what my non-legally trained brain can think of that most post of mine would be
redundant and/or less eloquent.

Still, great job from everybody and especially from you PJ (and now go get some
rest, we don't want you to get sick because of SCO/IBM related overwork).

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 06:04 AM EST
PJ, I think its great news that you're planning on writing a book. If I was
to pick anyone in this whole mess to write an intelligent and balanced book on
the affair, I don't think anyone could do a better job.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Praise and Licenses
Authored by: Steve Martin on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 06:48 AM EST
First, allow me to add my praise (redundant as it may be) to the heap. Congratulations, P.J., and get some sleep.

Now, back to business... did anyone else notice in the NewsForge article that O'Sullivan states

In other news, SCO has disclosed in an SEC filing that it hasn't issued a single Linux IP license. Its entire $15.3 million in source code revenue for the year to date has come from Sun and Microsoft.
Huh? They haven't sold a single Linux License?? Hadn't they balleyhooed about at least two, with McBride stating in the recent teleconference that
Uh, we have done additional signups for linux end-user licenses.
Has anyone seen anything in SCO's recent filings to substantiate this?? Can we file this as yet another McBride'ism?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Right Stuff
Authored by: phrostie on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 07:13 AM EST
PJ, any praise or other form of benefit you recieve from your work here at
Groklaw has been earned several times over.

to use a line from the Right Stuff(because you have it),
"we're not saying anything new here, just the same things that need to be
said over and over again with fierce conviction"

---
=====
phrostie
Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of DOS
and danced the skies on Linux silvered wings.
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/cad-linux

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise
Authored by: Peter Simpson on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 07:42 AM EST
Absolutely the most thoughtful analysis of the whole SCO soap opera is right
here. Kudos to you, PJ, for setting up, maintaining and moderating this forum.
Any rewards are sure to be inadequate, but please understand that your efforts
are sincerely appreciated by those of us who want the straight scoop, with the
parts we don't quite understand explained clearly.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Some Special Praise & Outrage
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 08:00 AM EST
I echo the comments already posted - PJ's, and the community's efforts will
prevail. Synergy in action!

One other thought - I find it ethically repulsive that a company such as SCO
would threaten end users with unsubstantiated litigation and then, if the end
user did not capitulate, pass the end-user along to Boies et al (their
enforcers) who will likely benefit twice through an assumed settlement and bump
in SCO's stock.

I may misunderstand the arrangements but if indeed this is close to the actual
circumstances, it is an outrage. I hope I am wrong.

Keep up the marvelous work!

[ Reply to This | # ]

You Rock PJ!
Authored by: peteshaw on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 08:15 AM EST
Your tireless efforts have really made a dent in de-constructing this whole
thing (I think) and at the very least you have made a legally complex matter
accessible to a lot of concerned folks.

I don't know if I am the only one here who has found a lot of very dense and
complex legaleeze made understandablt and even gripping due to the efforts of
you and the community that has formed here.

A big round of thanks to all the contributors here.


---
mmmmmmm... beer

[ Reply to This | # ]

Re: Some Special Praise
Authored by: pointwood on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:16 PM EST
I just wanted to thank you for your hard work - this is a truly excellent site!

---
Pointwood
JabberID: Pointwood@jabber.shd.dk

[ Reply to This | # ]

another praise about Groklaw
Authored by: brenda banks on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:37 PM EST
http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/rupertgoodwins/0,39020691,39118030,00.htm

---
br3n

[ Reply to This | # ]

Moving the press
Authored by: Budgreen on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:38 PM EST
I have also noted that the press is more and more picking up on this site as
noted here http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/rupertgoodwins/0,39020691,39118030,00.htm

I think it is great that this site exists and I hope it stays sane for
everybody's benefit.

great work to everybody here and especially PJ

[ Reply to This | # ]

More Praise
Authored by: djf on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 12:40 PM EST
There's another story praising groklaw over at ZDNet UK: http://tinyurl.com/vutb

Groklaw is mentioned on the second page of the story.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • More Praise - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 01:21 PM EST
It's uncanny
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 02:05 PM EST
It's uncanny how fast you react to developments, and how much you work. You
almost manage to make me feel like a slacker, when I open Groklaw at the end of
a day, and see not just one new article, but three or four. Day after day.

And Groklaw seems to have attracted a very good set of readers, the level of
discourse is excellent.

-- Andreas

[ Reply to This | # ]

More praise for Groklaw at ZDNet UK
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, November 20 2003 @ 05:30 PM EST
http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/rupertgoodwins/0,39020691,39118030,00.htm

Groklaw is a sterling example of Internet interdisciplinary cooperation between
experts and concerned parties. The discussions are impassioned but controlled,
and documenting arguments is the order of the day. Heavily spiced with links and
excerpts from many sources, the rule is -- if you don't understand, ask. If you
know something of import, tell.

When this whole sorry affair is over and BB King can get on with writing the
Ballard Of Black Dog McBride, Groklaw will stand as a monument to how a
community under threat can gather its resources and calmly set about restoring
sanity in a hurricane of bluster. If anyone can find a way to bottle this, it
may even all have been worth it.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I think the Praise is a bit tainted.
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, November 21 2003 @ 03:29 AM EST
While the paragraph PJ cited was good. I disagree with many of the opinions
expressed in the NewsForge article. For one thing it listed esr as a big winner
and groklaw as a winner. If esr is a big winner we are headed towards more
problems in terms of our image as a Linux community. Just the other night he
made a crack on someone’s analogy about SCO dumping 1 million pages of discovery
on IBM, much of it being printed source code, and how it amounts to something
like paying your taxes to the IRS with all pennies. Esr indicated the analogy
was inappropriate, it was inappropriate for SCO to provide the source on paper,
but it was perfectly ok to pay the IRS with pennies. We are not a bunch childish
extremists, but esr does a damn good job at making us look that way.

I could go on about the many other points I disagree with in that NewsForge
article… PJ certainly deserves some awards for the work she is doing!

Clearly PJ and Groklaw deserve more credit than esr!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Even more Praise
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, November 21 2003 @ 11:21 AM EST
And yet more well-deserved praise for you and this site:

<http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/rupertgoodwins/0,39020691,39118030,00.htm>

BTW, I've been able to use the resources I found on your site to make the case
why our company shouldn't panic about the
Linux servers we have, despite the legal threats being made.

Thanks tremendously for the resource.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Groklaw © Copyright 2003-2013 Pamela Jones.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners.
Comments are owned by the individual posters.

PJ's articles are licensed under a Creative Commons License. ( Details )